Off-season starting lineup ever changing thread
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My personal preference if KU is indeed going to lose either Zuby or Udeh is to lose Udeh. I think he has the lower ceiling of the two. In his limited minutes, Zuby put up dominant rebounding numbers whereas Udeh was a below average rebounder, not as bad as KJ, not not that much better either. Zuby was also the much better shot blocker than Udeh was.
Udeh was a little ahead of Zuby offensively, but Zuby wasn’t bad at 65% from the field and was better at the FT line, although both were bad at the FT last season.
Personally, I think Zuby is the better overall prospect and has the higher ceiling between he and Udeh and my personal choice would be to keep Zuby and let Udeh find somewhere else if it comes to that.
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@Texas-Hawk-10 Interesting. I can see what you are saying but to me Zuby is the safer prospect but Udeh has the higher ceiling. Udeh’s physical tools and athleticism give him the potential (ceiling) to turn into something great. Zuby can be and was already becoming a solid college big man who can be a strong rebounder and good finisher down low but there wasn’t the same spark when he was on the floor. He has yet to get me to the edge of my seat the way Udeh did in spurts last year. I’m sure the injury was a big part of that.
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@Texas-Hawk-10 You getting them confused?
Udeh was the 6-11 guy who’d block shots (often get way out of position and whiff as well) and throw down some lobs.
Zuby may have rebounded better but Udeh had some quick hands getting steals at the top on switches a few times.
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@benshawks08 I agree. Zuby has a higher floor, but lower ceiling. Bill hates mistakes, so Zuby played early. Had he not got injured, I’m not sure Udeh would’ve got any run. I’m a fan of Udeh, I think he can be a star at this level if he stays four years. Zuby can be a McCormack level player in my estimation. Good enough to win you a national title, but not to carry you there. Pdg players
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@kuballin10 said in Off-season starting lineup ever changing thread:
@Texas-Hawk-10 You getting them confused?
Udeh was the 6-11 guy who’d block shots (often get way out of position and whiff as well) and throw down some lobs.
Zuby may have rebounded better but Udeh had some quick hands getting steals at the top on switches a few times.
Zuby had a block rate of 12.5% while Udeh was 7.7% so no, I’m not getting them confused. Udeh may have made more highlight level plays than Zuby, but Zuby is much more consistent and sound on that end of the floor than Udeh is. Udeh is a flashier player no doubt, but big men like home haven’t necessarily torn the house down with scoring. Doke never averaged more than 13.7 ppg. Zuby can be a guy that can average a double-double by his senior season, I don’t see Udeh ever being that type of player because of his rebounding.
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@Texas-Hawk-10 said in Off-season starting lineup ever changing thread:
Doke never averaged more than 13.7 ppg.
I am sure most KU fans’ memories have built that higher in their minds!
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@Texas-Hawk-10 I dunno, the eye test sure tells me Udeh is better than Zuby. Stats can be misleading sometimes and this might be one of those times. Consider this, a lot of Zuby’s minutes were early season against non-con schedule, some much easier opponents there that skew the numbers. 7 Rebs against ND St, 5 against Texas So. He did have 5 rebs against Duke which is great but also two TOs. Udeh logged 4 Blocks that Duke game! Many of Udeh’s minutes were in the heart of conference schedule and much tougher competition.
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@RockkChalkk said in Off-season starting lineup ever changing thread:
@Texas-Hawk-10 I dunno, the eye test sure tells me Udeh is better than Zuby. Stats can be misleading sometimes and this might be one of those times. Consider this, a lot of Zuby’s minutes were early season against non-con schedule, some much easier opponents there that skew the numbers. 7 Rebs against ND St, 5 against Texas So. He did have 5 rebs against Duke which is great but also two TOs. Udeh logged 4 Blocks that Duke game! Many of Udeh’s minutes were in the heart of conference schedule and much tougher competition.
The eye test also tells me that Zuby was getting the back up 5 minutes ahead of Udeh before he hurt his foot. Zuby’s best overall game of the season came against Indiana and Trayce Jackson-Davis who was a consensus 1st team All-American last season. His second best overall game was against OSU in the Big 12 opener.
A lot of Zuby’s advanced numbers on defense are very comparable to what Doke did as a freshman. One thing that Zuby has that’s not an easily teachable trait is instincts and Zuby was light years ahead of Udeh as far as defensive instincts go.
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@kuballin10 said in Off-season starting lineup ever changing thread:
@Texas-Hawk-10 You getting them confused?
Udeh was the 6-11 guy who’d block shots (often get way out of position and whiff as well) and throw down some lobs.
Zuby may have rebounded better but Udeh had some quick hands getting steals at the top on switches a few times.
I will say this - it DID seem like he came up with more steals from a guy that size that you wouldn’t think about. - -I really hate to lose either one of these guys though is they both 4 year players, and w have seen thee types develop before into pretty solid payers - -( umm does Azulbuike ring a bell lol- - McCormack ? ) – I know like some have said I GUESS it’s a business but these are suck likeable guys.
Kida wonder with all these transferring out - -and then guys who really didn’t want to leave it seems ( Cuffe ) - kinda pushed out , just wonder some where down the line this doesn’t come back and bite us in the ass
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Back to the original purpose of this thread. New line up with Hunter Dickinson involved now for me would be:
Starters G: Harris G: Morris G: Timberlake F: KJ Adams C: Dickinson
Bench Rotation G: Jackson F: Marcus Adams F: Udeh/Ejiofor
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@jayballer67 said in Off-season starting lineup ever changing thread:
@kuballin10 said in Off-season starting lineup ever changing thread:
@Texas-Hawk-10 You getting them confused?
Udeh was the 6-11 guy who’d block shots (often get way out of position and whiff as well) and throw down some lobs.
Zuby may have rebounded better but Udeh had some quick hands getting steals at the top on switches a few times.
I will say this - it DID seem like he came up with more steals from a guy that size that you wouldn’t think about. - -I really hate to lose either one of these guys though is they both 4 year players, and w have seen thee types develop before into pretty solid payers - -( umm does Azulbuike ring a bell lol- - McCormack ? ) – I know like some have said I GUESS it’s a business but these are suck likeable guys.
Kida wonder with all these transferring out - -and then guys who really didn’t want to leave it seems ( Cuffe ) - kinda pushed out , just wonder some where down the line this doesn’t come back and bite us in the ass
The long term issue with having both Ejiofor and Udeh is they play the same position, amd were in the same class. One would eventually transfer out anyway over a lack of playing time. This is why coach generally like have their depth staggered in regards to player at the same position as opposed to two guys in the same class like we have with these two.
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@rockchalkjayhawk lets add McCullar and call it a wrap.
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@approxinfinity said in Off-season starting lineup ever changing thread:
@rockchalkjayhawk lets add McCullar and call it a wrap.
Done and done!
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@Texas-Hawk-10 said in Off-season starting lineup ever changing thread:
Back to the original purpose of this thread. New line up with Hunter Dickinson involved now for me would be:
Starters G: Harris G: Morris G: Timberlake F: KJ Adams C: Dickinson
Bench Rotation G: Jackson F: Marcus Adams F: Udeh/Ejiofor
Timberlake at the 3 guy ?
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@approxinfinity said in Off-season starting lineup ever changing thread:
@rockchalkjayhawk lets add McCullar and call it a wrap.
That would be my #1 target
esp if another player in the fold exits.
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Maybe jumping the gun a little bit, but it seems fairly likely Mgbako will be a Jayhawk on Friday so an updated projection.
Starters:
G- Harris
G- Morris
F- Mgbako
F- KJ Adams
C- Dickinson
Rotation players
G- Jackson
G- Timberlake
F- Marcus Adams
F- Udeh
Deep Bench
G- Johnson
G- McDowell
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@approxinfinity said in Off-season starting lineup ever changing thread:
@rockchalkjayhawk lets add McCullar and call it a wrap.
Ok let’s say this ALL together lol - -KEVIN IS NOT I repeat- - NOT COMING BACK - -there now don’t you feel better lol
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I think a million dollar reduction in salary is crazy high. Heck if they fired him he could probably collect better than that even if the U protested.
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For what it’s worth, I wonder if the freshmen will get a lot of play early to acclimatize themselves to KU ball and (later) AFH. There’s not much at stake in Puerto Rico and the exhibition game. It could build “team”. Then we see “the best of the best”. Thoughts?
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I know it’s not likely to happen, but it’d still argue that KJ needs to come off the bench. By the looks of Self’s offseason take charge attitude, I think he’s ready to move on from KJ as a starter.
Starters:
G- Harris
G- Morris
F- Timberlake
F- Mgbako
C- Dickinson
Rotation players
G- Jackson
wing/big - KJ
F- Marcus Adams
F- Udeh
Deep Bench
G- Johnson
G- McDowell
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@Gorilla72 yeah I expect a VERY long bench in PR. Reduce the risks of getting anyone hurt
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@rockchalkjayhawk said in Off-season starting lineup ever changing thread:
I know it’s not likely to happen, but it’d still argue that KJ needs to come off the bench. By the looks of Self’s offseason take charge attitude, I think he’s ready to move on from KJ as a starter.
Starters:
G- Harris
G- Morris
F- Timberlake
F- Mgbako
C- Dickinson
Rotation players
G- Jackson
wing/big - KJ
F- Marcus Adams
F- Udeh
Deep Bench
G- Johnson
G- McDowell
I think wee gonna see El Marko over Morris
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Well, that lock of getting MM was a bit off the mark! So, just like going into last year, i have concerns about 3 pt shooting with this roster.
Back to this lineup:
Starters
G- Dajuan Harris
G- Arterio Morris
F- Nicolas Timberlake (it’s all i can do to NOT call him Justin!)
F- KJ Adams (somebody has to play here)
C- Hunter Dickinson (better not be a freaking bust!)
Rotation players
G - Elmarko Jackson
Wing - Marcus Adams Jr.
Needed: A backup big
Deep Bench (we’ll see if they are deep, or less deep)
G- Chris Johnson
G- Jamari McDowell
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With this mornings news, new line up should be
G- Harris
G- Morris
F- McCullar
F- KJ Adams
C- Dickinson
Bench (Rotation level minutes)
G- Jackson
G- Timberlake
F- Marcus Adams
Deep Bench
G- Johnson
G- McDowell
F- Braun
A rotation quality 5 should be the final piece to this puzzle.
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What quality 5 is going to come here and play less then 10 minutes a game?
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@jayballer67 said in Off-season starting lineup ever changing thread:
@approxinfinity said in Off-season starting lineup ever changing thread:
@rockchalkjayhawk lets add McCullar and call it a wrap.
Ok let’s say this ALL together lol - -KEVIN IS NOT I repeat- - NOT COMING BACK - -there now don’t you feel better lol
This didn’t age well.
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@RockkChalkk said in Off-season starting lineup ever changing thread:
This didn’t age well.
Only one of many comments made with certainty. Not very fair to pick just this one! Remembering one from early March last year, for example…
It’s almost as if players’ free will adds some unpredictability to these things.
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@mayjay said in Off-season starting lineup ever changing thread:
It’s almost as if players’ free will adds some unpredictability to these things.
PHOF.
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@RockkChalkk said in Off-season starting lineup ever changing thread:
@jayballer67 said in Off-season starting lineup ever changing thread:
@approxinfinity said in Off-season starting lineup ever changing thread:
@rockchalkjayhawk lets add McCullar and call it a wrap.
Ok let’s say this ALL together lol - -KEVIN IS NOT I repeat- - NOT COMING BACK - -there now don’t you feel better lol
This didn’t age well.
LMAO - - -no it didn’t did it - - - and couldn’t be happier that it didn’t-- huge day for the Hawks
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@jayballer67 ha. Cheers buddy!
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@approxinfinity said in Off-season starting lineup ever changing thread:
@jayballer67 ha. Cheers buddy!
yes indeed - -great day – makes my day, Kevin is so solid, no great but really , really , really, good
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@BeddieKU23 said in Off-season starting lineup ever changing thread:
What quality 5 is going to come here and play less then 10 minutes a game?
Grant Nelson in an ideal world, but beyond that not likely someone withdrawing from the draft, but someone coming up from a low major looking for more exposure even in limited minutes.
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@Texas-Hawk-10 said in Off-season starting lineup ever changing thread:
With this mornings news, new line up should be
G- Harris
G- Morris
F- McCullar
F- KJ Adams
C- Dickinson
Bench (Rotation level minutes)
G- Jackson
G- Timberlake
F- Marcus Adams
Deep Bench
G- Johnson
G- McDowell
F- Braun
A rotation quality 5 should be the final piece to this puzzle.
Ugh, I am likely the only one feeling this way, but with Kevin back that is an ugly ass, non shooting starting five. Dislike. Self has brought us back to the stone age of defensive stalwarts.
We desperately need a more modern approach to that lineup.
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@rockchalkjayhawk said in Off-season starting lineup ever changing thread:
@Texas-Hawk-10 said in Off-season starting lineup ever changing thread:
Ugh, I am likely the only one feeling this way, but with Kevin back that is an ugly ass, non shooting starting five. Dislike. Self has brought us back to the stone age of defensive stalwarts.
We desperately need a more modern approach to that lineup.
Would think that with that line-up, opponents would pack the lane and take their chances on us making outside shots. One way to counter would be to have Dickinson play the high role where he can make shots and he is a good passer. Kevin or KJ could post up smaller guys.
And, I would also expect quite a few more line-up changes during a game than in the past year. I would be surprised to see both KJ and Hunter playing a lot of minutes together, given that KJ is really the only back up 5 option right now. At least if there are quick fouls on either. A lot depends on Marcus’ development, esp. if we don’t get a Nelson or similar.
But, at least we should be able to generate a lot more scoring from the bench than this year…
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I’m celebrating McCullars return. It’s way too early to bemoan shooting problems. These guys are working hard on their shooting, I’m sure. There will be positive surprises…
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@rockchalkjayhawk said in Off-season starting lineup ever changing thread:
@Texas-Hawk-10 said in Off-season starting lineup ever changing thread:
With this mornings news, new line up should be
G- Harris
G- Morris
F- McCullar
F- KJ Adams
C- Dickinson
Bench (Rotation level minutes)
G- Jackson
G- Timberlake
F- Marcus Adams
Deep Bench
G- Johnson
G- McDowell
F- Braun
A rotation quality 5 should be the final piece to this puzzle.
Ugh, I am likely the only one feeling this way, but with Kevin back that is an ugly ass, non shooting starting five. Dislike. Self has brought us back to the stone age of defensive stalwarts.
We desperately need a more modern approach to that lineup.
You’re not the only one. I would have preferred we landed a different player for that spot, but I do think this is still a salty lineup.
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McCullar is a class act. I don’t know if he balances out some of the character issues on the team, but he goes a long way towards bringing me back in the fold. I’m probably in the minority, but I’d rather take a moderately less talented guy with sterling character over the stereotypical a-hole blue chipper.
I do think you can win a championship with Kevin playing 35 minutes a game.
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@rockchalkjayhawk said in Off-season starting lineup ever changing thread:
@Texas-Hawk-10 said in Off-season starting lineup ever changing thread:
With this mornings news, new line up should be
G- Harris
G- Morris
F- McCullar
F- KJ Adams
C- Dickinson
Bench (Rotation level minutes)
G- Jackson
G- Timberlake
F- Marcus Adams
Deep Bench
G- Johnson
G- McDowell
F- Braun
A rotation quality 5 should be the final piece to this puzzle.
Ugh, I am likely the only one feeling this way, but with Kevin back that is an ugly ass, non shooting starting five. Dislike. Self has brought us back to the stone age of defensive stalwarts.
We desperately need a more modern approach to that lineup.
How many KU games did you watch last year? You wouldn’t be saying that if you watched Kevin play.
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@Jethro said in Off-season starting lineup ever changing thread:
@rockchalkjayhawk said in Off-season starting lineup ever changing thread:
@Texas-Hawk-10 said in Off-season starting lineup ever changing thread:
With this mornings news, new line up should be
G- Harris
G- Morris
F- McCullar
F- KJ Adams
C- Dickinson
Bench (Rotation level minutes)
G- Jackson
G- Timberlake
F- Marcus Adams
Deep Bench
G- Johnson
G- McDowell
F- Braun
A rotation quality 5 should be the final piece to this puzzle.
Ugh, I am likely the only one feeling this way, but with Kevin back that is an ugly ass, non shooting starting five. Dislike. Self has brought us back to the stone age of defensive stalwarts.
We desperately need a more modern approach to that lineup.
How many KU games did you watch last year? You wouldn’t be saying that if you watched Kevin play.
Ha. Watched em all Jethro, like i’ve done basically since the 80s. Last year was last year. We have basically a new team this year, and we need different skills.
I was hoping for a true, volume shooter to help space the floor, give us a chance at making some 3s next year. that’s all. Kevin is not that guy, but brings other skills. i appreciate his skills on defense, but he’s not a good fit for this team offensively IMO. that’s all.
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@dylans said in Off-season starting lineup ever changing thread:
McCullar is a class act. I don’t know if he balances out some of the character issues on the team, but he goes a long way towards bringing me back in the fold. I’m probably in the minority, but I’d rather take a moderately less talented guy with sterling character over the stereotypical a-hole blue chipper.
I do think you can win a championship with Kevin playing 35 minutes a game.
Hard to disagree. Seems like a strong character guy.
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I’m not going to get too hung up on whether Kev shoots 30 or 35% from 3. At his volume last year that difference would be… 15 points (he scored 364). He’s such an asset otherwise that those 15 are easily made up vs a sharpshooter who can’t guard, rebound, handle, or move without the ball like Kev.
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@FarmerJayhawk said in Off-season starting lineup ever changing thread:
I’m not going to get too hung up on whether Kev shoots 30 or 35% from 3. At his volume last year that difference would be… 15 points (he scored 364). He’s such an asset otherwise that those 15 are easily made up vs a sharpshooter who can’t guard, rebound, handle, or move without the ball like Kev.
I don’t put much stock in preseason computer rankings especially since they can’t really factor in coaching but Kevin’s return really moved the needle with some models that were down on KU. All these models had guys like Chris Johnson playing way to much however.
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@BShark no two ways about it, he fills our biggest need. We needed more skill from the 3/4 spot.
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The following my my guess of the rotation and minutes:
- Harris (32 mpg) / Morris (8)
- Morris (18 mpg) / Elmarko (11) / Timberlake (11)
- McCullar (23 mpg) / Timberlake (15) / Elmarko (2)
- KJ Adams (22 mpg) / Marcus Adams (9) / McCullar (9)
- Dickinson (32 mpg) / KJ Adams (8)
In games where we have foul trouble we will see Braun, McDowell, or Johnson get minutes as well.
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@rockchalkjayhawk said in Off-season starting lineup ever changing thread:
@Jethro said in Off-season starting lineup ever changing thread:
@rockchalkjayhawk said in Off-season starting lineup ever changing thread:
@Texas-Hawk-10 said in Off-season starting lineup ever changing thread:
With this mornings news, new line up should be
G- Harris
G- Morris
F- McCullar
F- KJ Adams
C- Dickinson
Bench (Rotation level minutes)
G- Jackson
G- Timberlake
F- Marcus Adams
Deep Bench
G- Johnson
G- McDowell
F- Braun
A rotation quality 5 should be the final piece to this puzzle.
Ugh, I am likely the only one feeling this way, but with Kevin back that is an ugly ass, non shooting starting five. Dislike. Self has brought us back to the stone age of defensive stalwarts.
We desperately need a more modern approach to that lineup.
How many KU games did you watch last year? You wouldn’t be saying that if you watched Kevin play.
Ha. Watched em all Jethro, like i’ve done basically since the 80s. Last year was last year. We have basically a new team this year, and we need different skills.
I was hoping for a true, volume shooter to help space the floor, give us a chance at making some 3s next year. that’s all. Kevin is not that guy, but brings other skills. i appreciate his skills on defense, but he’s not a good fit for this team offensively IMO. that’s all.
We had 1 clutch player on this team last year. When you needed the dagger basket, you went to him, and he delivered. When we needed a stop, he found a way to deliver. WE weren’t even the same team when he wasn’t on the court- it was so obvious, it was ridiculous. He guarded the best player every freaking’ night. There were many game night chats on here when we marveled at his performance. The kid is just flat a winner. So, that’s why I asked if you’d actually seen a KU game last year. Because it’s hard for me to imagine you didn’t see that being a fan that “never misses a game”. Kevin McCullar was our best player last year, period.
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@rockchalkjayhawk said in Off-season starting lineup ever changing thread:
@Jethro said in Off-season starting lineup ever changing thread:
@rockchalkjayhawk said in Off-season starting lineup ever changing thread:
@Texas-Hawk-10 said in Off-season starting lineup ever changing thread:
With this mornings news, new line up should be
G- Harris
G- Morris
F- McCullar
F- KJ Adams
C- Dickinson
Bench (Rotation level minutes)
G- Jackson
G- Timberlake
F- Marcus Adams
Deep Bench
G- Johnson
G- McDowell
F- Braun
A rotation quality 5 should be the final piece to this puzzle.
Ugh, I am likely the only one feeling this way, but with Kevin back that is an ugly ass, non shooting starting five. Dislike. Self has brought us back to the stone age of defensive stalwarts.
We desperately need a more modern approach to that lineup.
How many KU games did you watch last year? You wouldn’t be saying that if you watched Kevin play.
Ha. Watched em all Jethro, like i’ve done basically since the 80s. Last year was last year. We have basically a new team this year, and we need different skills.
I was hoping for a true, volume shooter to help space the floor, give us a chance at making some 3s next year. that’s all. Kevin is not that guy, but brings other skills. i appreciate his skills on defense, but he’s not a good fit for this team offensively IMO. that’s all.
You will see some different things from him this year. It’s going to be very fun to see what Bill tinkers up with Hunter. Hunter is not just a guy to dump it into down low. He is versatile. Kev is going to really be able to cut to the basket.
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There is a lot to be excited about but the excitement is rightly tempered by the need for some players to improve their shooting / expand their offensive toolbox in the off-season.
Juan needs to be a threat from deep. Can he become a 33% shooter from 3?
Kevin needs to be more consistent from three and be dependable for some mid-range shots that JWill delivered.
KJ also needs to deliver more points from mid-range. But he should be the one player who isn’t required to acquire a transformative skill. He can make a comfortable living off rebounds and tips with Hunter picking up a lot of inside scoring responsibility.
Speaking of Hunter — he can’t be a bust. I expect great things, but he’s a bit of an unknown until we see him play in the system. He has to score prolifically. Period.
The fifth is a wing. This is the position of highest uncertainty. Whoever it is needs to be a threat from deep — no less than 30% from 3. No one will replace Grady but this player has to make sure we aren’t longing for Grady.
So the question is not just if we have one guy that can be a deep threat (while holding all the usual defensive responsibilities, etc etc) but also, can two guys develop into a reliable threat as well?
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@bskeet Juan is career 39% from 3 so I’m guessing yes on that
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@FarmerJayhawk said in Off-season starting lineup ever changing thread:
@bskeet Juan is career 39% from 3 so I’m guessing yes on that
Good point — I should say - needs to stay in the 33% range on much higher volume. And this will only get harder if there isn’t 1 or 2 other deep threats.
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Terio’s shooting form is excellent and he shot 41% down the stretch for Texas. He could be a breakout candidate.
@bskeet I’m very against KJ from midrange though. I think that’s bad offense and his shot is a hot mess. Junkyard dog role is perfect for him.
