This sort of feels like a last stand for the NCAA.

Who takes them seriously anymore?

California, under threat that their schools could be banned from post-season play, all but unanimously passed their law that allows players to take money and not lose their scholarship. 20+ more states in the process of drafting a similar bill now.

The NBAPA agents all refused to follow the NCAAs rules for agents.

Will Wade literally talked about how much he paid for a player on the phone. Wade was reinstated and that player played the rest of the season.

Sean Miller has an assistant convicted in the scheme. There is as much evidence against him as anyone, somehow not fired.

Duke conducted an internal investigation, when we all know what got Bagley to North Carolina. We have evidence of Zion being offered by several schools. But they found nothing…

Miami paid Nassir Little. Jim Larrañaga still the coach. And Little played all season at UNC.

Avenatti is singing like a bird with a former AAU coach from California. Says Bol Bol went to Oregon for cash with documentation. Says Ayton went to Arizona for cash with documentation. Says Bagley went to Duke for cash with documentation. Not a peep from those schools.

Wendell Carter Jr. a player for Duke - Parents went to lunch with an agent. That agent, alone, somehow wracked up a $100+ tab on his own. Carter’s parents didn’t even eat… Must have been a hell of a steak.

KU landed two guys who were paid, and went for a third. And we’re denying the hell out of it being our responsibility.

Maryland paid De Sousa and not a word has been spoken about Turgeon in the national media. Much less Maryland coming out and making an official statement.

Collin Sexton only got a 4 game suspension and Avery Johnson finished the season.

Personally, I think KU will and should fight this to the death. I think they SHOULD take it to court. And, on top of the obviously circumstantial evidence presented in the NOA, my argument would be that the NCAA is unable to fairly and broadly enforce the rules and is unable to monitor their member institutions. There were 30+ programs named at the trials. Unless all of them were investigated with the same thoroughness as KU was, they are unable to fairly apply the rules across the board. The NCAA themselves, lack institutional control. I’d argue that they should have known that Apparel sponsors were offering impermissible benefits as much as KU should have known. I’d argue that the NCAA didn’t take control of recruiting until 2018, when they set up rules for AAU events. I’d argue that the commission they put together themselves realized how widespread this was, and that it’s a failure of duty on their part that it took this long to investigate. If they were unwilling to investigate the underbelly of College Basketball until recently, how on Earth is one single member institution supposed to combat it?

The issue is widespread, and that is largely due to the fact that the NCAA has been unwilling to use their resources, which consist of a billion dollars of revenue, to combat impermissible benefits from 3rd parties and protect the “NCAA Collegiate Model.” If they are unwilling to do it, why should KU be? If they cared, there would be 30+ schools under investigation right now. There would be an official NCAA employee working in the compliance department at every single NCAA institution in the country. But there isn’t. Because the NCAA arbitrarily applies the rules when they feel like applying the rules. And they do that after taking no steps to prevent rules from being broken.

I’d love to see the NCAA rules enforcement process get audited by a major accounting firm. They have no controls and no prevention process. They, as the parent company over 300+ institutions, knew that those institutions were essentially “under attack” and prone to corruption with a 3rd party. Yet, their “prevention process” is to simply ask that people who have millions of dollars at stake turn themselves in. And institutions who have tens of millions of dollars at stake to also turn themselves in. It may be the right thing to do. And acting with integrity should be expected from us fans. But the NCAA has a duty to it’s other member institutions to enforce the rules and put in processes that create as even of a playing field as possible. Yet, they don’t, haven’t and won’t.

The NCAA created this issue when they allowed 3rd party money to infiltrate college athletics. And it’s the NCAA’s fault they did nothing to prevent the wide-spread corruption since. They can’t all of a sudden decide they don’t like it when they are the ones who created it…

KU overachieved this year after Doke went down. Bill did an amazing job using what he had. And I think he took a giant step forward as a coach this season that we will see come to light next year when we have depth.

I like to compare Bill to Roy. Because they are both All-Time greats and have now coached at KU basically as long as each other.

To me this shows that HCBS has been better than Roy Williams while he was at KU. Bill has a better winning percentage. Bill is 7-2 in the Sweet 16 vs. Roy’s 5-4. Bill is 1/2 in NC championship games. Roy is 0-2. Roy didn’t win his first NC until he was in his 17th season as a head coach and 55 years old. And now he has won 3 in 11 seasons. Bill can do the same.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2767373-think-reaching-the-final-4-is-tough-then-you-havent-met-kansas-udoka-azubuike

I LOVE this team. Unbelievable what all had to happen for this group of guys to all end up on the same team.

bskeet said:

Kansan vs Kansan outside of the game is not healthy. It’s fun to have a rivalry, but fans should remember we have to be united for bigger issues and opponents.

I’ll root for KState over Alabama… or any SEC, ACC, etc opponent for that matter.

After the band fellatio, I quit rooting for KSU for anything. How their fans reacted to that is pitiful.

Same with this stupid fight. “He wAs JuSt PlAyInG tO tHe wHistLe.”

They can’t even accept that a single one of their players had anything to do with the situation. That maybe their bench shouldn’t have reacted that way. I’m not trying to say Silvio was innocent. He was absolutely the main reason the scuffle started. But they literally can’t own up to the smallest of things.

It’s a repeat of the way they acted with the band thing.

“iT wAs StAr WaRs dAy.”

No it was clearly a penis and if you’d at least own up to that I’d respect you.

So KSU can burn to the ground and I wouldn’t care one single bit. I hate their fans. I hate where their school is located. I think their campus is ugly. I hate the way it smells there. I hate how fake “country” it is. I hate their colors. I hate EMAW because it sounds like a donkey noise. I hate the stupid thing they do at games where it looks like everyone is practicing giving a BJ.

Frankly, I hate everything about KSU. And I hope that during the next conference realignment they get relegated to the Mountain West where they belong.

Hampton’s twitter is cracking me up. “PEOPLE ARE MAD I TOOK BAGS.”

No dude. Nobody is mad you went and got paid. They’re mad you tried to pretend you were staying (even though Slater was basically all over this) to get hype.

You risk completely shooting down Svis confidence. Then you may not even have a spot up shooter.

You can play Vick more than Svi all you want, but at this point in the season, changing the starting lineup is drama a team on a roll doesn’t need.

This team is now special. They were before, but they have now cemented a legacy. And, now, this week has been a great time for reflection.

What I’ve been awe struck by is how many things had to happen to put this special team together.

• Devonte - Not only did he have to born and raised by a VERY young mother, he could have just as easily been an App State Mountaineer. Yet somehow Bill was the only Blue Blood to swoop in and steal a NPOY candidate. Simply amazing story and an amazing person.

• Doke - Raised by Christians in a war torn African country, he is not only lucky to be alive, but lucky he was tall enough that someone saw basketball potential in him and was able to ship him out of there. Had JoJo not put in a good word for us, he could have just as easily been at FSU.

• Newman - The plan didn’t go right. He was supposed to go to MSU, show off his scoring ability, and be in the lottery. Didn’t happen. Somehow, Bill gets a second chance to recruit this guy and lands him. He had struggles all season and could have just as easily thrown in the towel. But the staff kept pushing him, and now we are looking at a scorer that can’t be stopped.

• Svi - We took a chance on a 16 year old from Ukraine that we never saw play in person. Convinced him and his parents that shipping that youngster thousands of miles away was what was best for him. Turns out, it might have been. But a kid who could have easily been playing pro ball in Europe right this second, took a chance on Bill and on KU.I hope he reaches his NBA dreams.

• Vick - Original commit to SMU. Larry continues to impact KU basketball to this day. He shipped him on up to Lawrence instead. He thought about playing High School ball another season instead of coming to KU, but chose to come instead. And I think it is safe to say that the extra season under Self and at the college level has helped him a lot.

• De Sousa - The kid was playing High School basketball three and a half months ago. Somehow Bill has turned him into the 2nd best big on this roster in a short time, when Bill has been known to bring Freshmen bigs along slowly. Not only that, but again, somehow De Sousa had to end up in the good ole USA. And there had to be a scholarship available for him to even be able to play for KU. What was once a heavy Maryland lean on the recruiting sites, is now a strong backup to Doke. Would Preston have been able to be unselfish enough to allow this run to happen? I don’t know. But I know that somehow, Silvio was in the right spot at the right time.

• Mitch - From KC originally. Moved to Arizona. Once he proved he could play D1 ball, all the big boys were after him. He could have been a contributing piece to an Arizona team or even a starter for a lesser school. Yet he chose to come be apart of this tradition.He knew he would have to take a back seat for at least his first few years. And he shows it with this bench celebrations and overall enthusiasm for being a Jayhawk. Thank goodness he is such an unselfish player.

• Garrett - The grinder.The hustler. Mr. Defense. Again, he knew coming here he would have a tough time cracking the rotation. He knew his limitations. He went from PG to playing the 4, and didn’t show an ounce of disdain. He wanted to come be apart of something special, and now he is. Again, a more selfish player wouldn’t have come here. They would have stayed closer to home and gone somewhere he could have played PG and been a starter. Well, Mr. Garrett, now you are headed back to Texas as one of the last 4 remaining. the definition of a guy who will do whatever it takes to win.

I still just can’t believe Bill was able to align the stars with this bunch. This group is special.

Patty Pat Pat. You sad sack of Mizzou trash. You couldn’t help yourself. You have been awaiting this moment. Kansas was finally named in the FBI probe, officially. A glorious moment for the little brother to the East. We know that, on a forum, we would be giving the same crap to anyone else. But, when a “journalist” from your rival clearly writes an nationally published article in an attempt to defame a program, and then claims that work as good journalism, I have a problem.

Pat Forde doubled down on his takes on the Petro show a couple of days ago. I was disappointed with how the interview went, as Petro kept alluding to what he really wanted to say, but ended up not having the guts to actually put Forde on the spot. But I did take two things for Petro’s show. The first, that Pat Forde has as much pull in the CBB world as anyone on this Board. When your named and unnamed source have to be the same person, and they are simply a TV personality that can’t get a Head Coaching job, you have absolutely no clout in the business.

The Second, and most important one, is that either Bill Self is either a complete idiot, or he is clean and knows it.

In Pat’s article, he rips us for Cliff, JJ, Billy and De Sousa. When he was on Petro, he challenged people to find “any inaccuracies in my story.” Well, I will concede that he probably doesn’t have any inaccuracies, but simply information withheld from the story to fit his narrative. Basically, today’s bullshit that somehow passes for “journalism.”

Instead of commending KU’s compliance department for somehow unearthing the financial schemes, and holding out Billy and Cliff, he acts as if Bill Self knew and that the compliance department is protecting him. How Cliff could be held against Bill Self I have no idea. Bill Self didn’t take out the loan for Cliff’s mom. But somehow, that makes KU dirty. He uses the same information that, Yahoo themselves released, that had JJ’s mom included, but failed to mention that several other CBB stars over the past two years were on that same list. Why? Because providing all of the information discredits what Pat wants you to believe. Pat Ford is on a mission to prove that Bill Self is basically the Don Corleone of CBB.

Of course, that theory only works if you think Bill Self is a complete F-ing idiot. How dumb would you have to be, to sit a player that you paid, only to bring in another kid that you paid AFTER the FBI probe was announced. You would have to be a complete moron. Only a complete f-ing idiot would be that dumb.

So, is Bill Self dumb, or is he clean? You can’t have both Pat. Either Bill is so confident that him and his staff aren’t involved in anything dirty that he doesn’t care who he brings in, or he is a complete moron who has cheated his way to the top.

I find it hard to believe that anyone who has won 14 straight conference titles, been to 3 FFs and won a NC can be considered an idiot.

So, Pat, go f–k yourself.

I think it is time for Bill to make the switch to a 4 guard SYSTEM. Forever. From here on out. No more of this being the accident. No more plan B. What we saw from Ochai last night is not a fluke. We have now had a player ranked in the 100s be an immediate impact player since 2013. First it was Frank. Then Devonte. Now Ochai.

In that same span, we have had 3 five star post players struggle to find that same immediate success under Bill Self. Bragg, Diallo and Cliff.

It is now painfully obvious that guards are able to come in start making plays at a high level from day 1. It isn’t hard to be able to find 5 guards who can play, especially if you carry 9 or 10 of them instead of just 6 or 7. So, I believe it is time for Bill to quit fighting change. Lean into the 4 guard system. Other teams have shown how effective it can be. ISU, VT, and Nova all competed with the big boys by running a 4 out system without elite talent.

We are witnessing at Duke, right now, what it looks like when a Blue Blood commits to the 4 guard system with top tier athletes. Nobody can keep up with them. They are running damn near everyone out of the gym. They aren’t even efficient scorers outside of Zion, but still, nobody is able to keep up with them for 40 minutes. And Duke isn’t even deep! They are as thin of a team as anyone in the country. But playing 4 out with 4 great athletes has allowed them to do things nobody else can do.

Last night, we saw what we were capable of. No it wasn’t pretty. We missed a ton of shots. But what we did to TCU is what Duke has been doing to everyone this season. We out-athleted them. We lined up 5 athletes and challenged them for 40 minutes. Our defense was scrappy and active. Our offense was in attack mode, even if the ball wasn’t always going in the basket. The entire team looked like it clicked 10 times better than it had all year when the strategy was throwing lob after lob. Guys played with confidence, energy and passion on both ends.

So, what am I getting at with all of this? I believe that Bill Self’s coaching philosophy of being a “break them down and build them up” coach combo’s best with a four guard system. For several reasons.

First, I believe that most guards come in physically capable of playing college basketball day one. Therefore, it is only a mental issue with most of them. Something that can be improved as the season goes on.

Second, a four guard offense promotes freedom, creativity, and aggression. It also creates passion. When players are comfortable and confident on offense, it often times ratchets up their defense as well. Instead of Bill demanding guys play better defense, some passion for it may naturally occur if things are going well on the offensive side of the ball.

Finally, this is simply the direction that basketball is moving. And it has proven to be effective. As a Blue Blood with a distinct recruiting advantage, we should be able to build a roster with 5 athletes and two big men year in and year out without the growing pains we see when Bill lands a Top 5 Blue Collar big man. I believe we would be able to out-athlete damn near any team in CBB besides maybe the other Blue Bloods. I think if our recruiting pitch switched to a system that prepares players for the NBA better, it would also help in recruiting.

It’s time to make the switch.

HighEliteMajor said:

@Kcmatt7 I think the reference to recruiting area is clearly relevant. But that’s no different than if we are recruiting top guys, or 100+. We have a proximity issue.

This is true. But, it is also relevant for consistently building a team based around 4 year guys. Of the top 100, 50 guys ended up at a local/regional school. (Basically I counted anything less than a 5 hour drive). 28 of those ranked 100-150 went close to home.

That essentially eliminates half of the pool. If I were to limit it a bit further, like anything NE and stayed NE. Or SE and stayed SE, that number gets significantly smaller. 95/150 players stayed regionally based. So, really, we are down to 50-60 players willing to travel away from home each year.

When you look west and south, though, kids are having to fly to most preferred destinations.

But not for one minute should any of us think that any excuse is relevant for KU. We’re a top 5 program. So the excuses are irrelevant. I find the excuses laughable actually. I understand the factual nature of the data, I just find it’s applicability to top 5 program, a blue blood like KU, pretty much irrelevant.

So if any argument is irrelevant, what is the point of even having this discussion. You won’t even open your mind up a little bit. Here is the thing, it is all relevant. It is. All of it.

If Kansas focused on the non-OAD through - 80ish, made the commitment to avoid the presumed OAD, that would have to be attractive to a recruit in that range or higher. Logical. Why? Just look at Andrew White as an example. If I’m recruiting against KU, I say look at Andrew White. Self brings him in, then snags Wiggins and White is marginalized. White’s college career was then chaos. He got run out of Kansas. Self won’t commit to you.

You are remembering it wrong. AWIII was ran out of here by B-Green. Who Self picked over him. Wiggins was not the problem Green played, and would have played, over him.

He chases the OAD. So you could be junior and he’ll bring in a top guy just when you need to the PT the most to make it to the NBA. Heck, KU had Frank Mason and Devonte Graham, and Bill Self was working hard to get De’Aaron Fox, and was a finalist until the end. Would he have displaced Mason? How would that have impacted Mason’s NBA prospects?

This is a complete hypothetical. Who knows how it turns out for Frank. And, again, you’re remembering it wrong. Fox was an early commit nobody thought was coming here. Go look at the CB picks. Most picks were coming well before he ever even took a visit.

Or, we can continue to do what Self has done.

I’ll sacrifice making the tourney every so often for more pronounced spikes.

I very much doubt this. I don’t think you would be ok with this. Enduring years of misery, hoping we can put it all together for one year. And, what if we don’t? What if we finally get a group of 7 solid upperclassmen and we shit the bed? We are supposed to be ok with waiting another 4,5 6 years before we put it all together again and have a chance?

And those spikes can be from talent that grows, develops, and stays longer.

It sounds like what you want is to be like Indiana. Because that is what KU would become if we went with your strategy. We are in a talent desert. Chicago and St. Louis are our only regional places producing talent. And there is plenty of competition in those areas between KU and MSU and the dozen other schools that surround those two cities.

You look at this with Crimson and Blue goggles and basically say, there is no reason KU should be able to offer a kid ranked 80, and him jump on the opportunity. That is simply not true. Over half of the players available each given season wouldn’t jump at it.

Once you start playing the ShoeCo games too, that number goes from half, to even less. Kai Jones is a perfect example. A Brewster kid that loved KU. We have it on good authority, KU would have been HIS choice. But Nike and Texas took care of him. And guess where he went? KU would have taken him in a heartbeat. KU Offered him. He did not jump at that opportunity. He took the money.

You also think that “recruiting over” only happens with OAD players. That’s not true either. BG was a better player than AWIII. He was. And AWIII would have left regardless because he was never going to start at KU. And he knew that.

Low ranked Frank Mason kicked Frankamps ass back to Wichita. Frank and Devonte forced out Nadiir too.

It is going to happen regardless. And you’re going to end up with unbalanced classes, especially with the way the transfer market has changed. So, you have a team with Frank, DG, Svi, Vick and LL. A damn good team. You would rather have some no name player than JJ come in and help that team. Where is that team without JJ? A 4 or 5 seed and another early tournament flame out.

Frank DESERVED JJ and at least a shot at winning. We didn’t land anything else before JJ either. And we tried. JJ didn’t hurt a thing. Without him, I’m afraid that team struggles to even make the tournament. He was that good.

Wiggins didn’t hurt a thing. He was an April commit with nobody else coming in. One year and done. And without him we are probably not a tournament team. Again, White left after that season knowing that he was never going to be #1 in the pecking order. He was already behind BG. There was no impact from it. And that team lost double digits with him, they weren’t losing less games without him. Hell, they ended up a 2 seed because of him, really.

Maybe Xavier messed things up for the Sherron SR. year. It’s possible. That team also went 33-3 so I think it’s hard to say that. Xavier shot .418 from 3 and was efficient all around. 1.5 steals per game is pretty damn good… What happens to that team without a wing who can score it and shoot it that well? Sherron and Cole were already doing about as much as they could.

We saw what happens when you recruit guys that are 100+. You get LLs and Jamari’s. I don’t want Landen’s and Jamari’s. I want us to try to field the best damn team we can year in and year out. Period. Especially because, mathematically speaking, we have to essentially offer every Top 100 player that is an Adidas kid and then see which ones are even open to leaving home and we aren’t already deep at that position.

You also ignore the fact that players want to play and they want to play right away. Nobody likes sitting the bench. What guarantee could we give a player? If you come sit here for two years, you’ll get to play? But only if a guy we bring in next season doesn’t progress faster than you. Or are you suggesting that Bill purposely sit better players? You see, this is the problem with your strategy. There is no guarantee you ever see the court at the University of Kansas. No matter who you are. No matter what strategy we take. We are KU. We get talent. We will play the best talent for our system. That may or may not be you. If you don’t like that someone jumped you, you transfer. All of a sudden, the guy who jumped you went pro. We now have a giant hole. But we have 4 other positions locked down. How do we fill this hole? We have a 80+ ranked guy coming in, but he isn’t ready to play at this level yet…

You make it sound so, so much easier than it is. These aren’t excuses. These are the cold hard facts. And you can ignore them and continue to decry Self for chasing talent, but this is the realistic look at recruiting from the University of Kansas in 2019.

@BeddieKU23 said in Thoughts on Oachi . What ya thinkin ?:

We’ve seen nearly 30 games this year. Ochai continues to play similar to how Wayne Selden did here years ago as a Soph. Ball-Handling, Passing & an Erratic jump shot are his major issues. I thought his defense Saturday was average for him but average for him is better then 75% of the NCAA at the wing position. He has to make open shots. You can definitely tell in big games he’s in the learning phase of how to deal with things. The end of game against Baylor was atrocious. Self is ride or die with him though so I guess we just have to keep supporting and hope his good games come at the opportune moments

I think with the four of Doke, Dotson, Ochai and Garrett on the floor together we are just so hard to score against that you really can’t take him out of the game. This defense literally has the best rating in the Kenpom era at the moment. Hard to think they do that without any one of those 4 guys.

That new mute feature makes this board 10x better. I can tell

Scott Drew is a good coach who has succeeded in what anyone would have thought was an impossible situation.

To pretend it’s anything else is being disingenuous at best.

@dylans said in F-bomb Roy....:

@Kcmatt7 So you’re saying Self winning the Big12 after replacing all 5 starters twice is pretty freaking amazing?!?

Unheard of from anyone besides Wooden.

@Kcmatt7 They also lost some bench guys and have dealt with other injuries this year.

I would expect them to bounce back strong next season.

They replaced all 5 starters and their best player was hurt for a stretch of winnable games.They lost to Wofford, Pitt x 2, VT, GT, Clemson, and BC during the stretch Cole Anthony was out.

I think they win 5 of those games with him in the lineup. So 15-11 is almost understandable after losing all 5 starters.

@BeddieKU23 I think he’d belong up there no doubt about it. On top of that, he’s pacing for over 2,200 points. In comparison, Marcus just went up and he was pacing to barely eclipse 2,000.

With guys leaving early you almost have to just look at what they would have projected out to be I think. Of course they have to have accolades. I don’t think anyone should get hung just for being the first pick after a 1st weekend flameout.

@Kcmatt7 And I’d certainly hear any arguments against him going up there.

@dylans said in Doke Doke Doke Doke Doke:

@Kcmatt7 Unanimous 1st team All-America does it for me, but I think it only takes 2nd team for Bill.

I do think it should take a lot to get your name up there. I don’t know if I’d have strict criteria, but it would certainly be more than what we’ve had lately…

In my mind he’s the perfect addition for a contender in the late 2nd. You aren’t going to develop him into a guy who hits a 15 footer. So he isn’t worth sending to the G-League. At the same time, he’ll only be 21 and still has enough potential to develop offensively to the point he can give you 20 minutes a game if he can learn to pass out of a double and finish with either hand on a pick and roll.

His wingspan makes him an intriguing defender with the potential to be elite. Certainly serviceable enough for your 3rd big man. He will have games where he is the perfect matchup and other games he shouldn’t touch the floor. But that’s exactly what the bottom of the roster is for.

I really hope he makes it. He’s going to go down as one of my favorites. Had he stayed healthy, he would have ended up just ahead of Simien in points I think with somewhere in the ballpark of 1600, 2nd to Withey in Blocks around 260, beat Perry in Rebounds around 850 (could be 900 which puts him in Gooden and Simien ballpark) and he’s going to have probably the best shooting percentage in a career for what could be a long long long time, and he was integral to the FF run.

Doke’s jersey belongs in the rafters, but I’m biased. I hope he just eats people alive in the tournament and gets tournament MVP or something to solidify my thoughts on him.