The 4-Out Rotation
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@rockchalkjayhawk Gradey might start but I think Joe finishes
Bigs wise: Clemence starts but KJ and Zuby I think get serious chances. Udeh may be our best defender with his length but from what I’ve seen Zuby is like trob (not offensively yet) - the ball just bounced his way as he gets 10-12 rebounds. Dude is an animal on the boards.
Going to be fun to watch how two time ncaa champ coach figures this out.
We got some serious talent when even a guy like MJ might struggle to get solid minutes.
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@RockkChalkk He basically did at Late Night right?
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I have it Juando, McCullars, Wilson and Dick. I have Zach playing a platoon role at C. The interesting part is how does he work in MJ,BP,Zuby, Udeh, Joe, and of course KJ. 11 deep- who is going to sit? Looks like you have 30 minutes for Juando, McCullars, and Wilson. No idea how he is going to keep everyone happy, or will he?
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@Jethro One of the bigs you listed will for sure not play. Early on maybe Bill tries to feel things out but it won’t be 4 guys by January. The other one out of that group that won’t play is a tough call.
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Agree about Rice and the 5 position.
Listening to Joe’s interview from media day was positive. Just seems like a great kid & easy to root for. Seems like he knows his role now which is to score, something he came to KU knowing how to do but hasn’t really shown. I think Joe & MJ have the ability to provide the bench scoring this team needs on a consistent basis.
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@Kcmatt7 I didn’t see late night which is probably why i was uninformed, lol. Appreciate everyone keeping me up to speed with this stuff.
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It makes a lot of sense optically for Gradey to start here too. I’m sure he’s earned the spot but for future recruits like him, it’s always good for biz when you can sell to these kids that they can compete and start as freshman.
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I think we don’t know enough behind the scenes stuff on these guys to adequately predict minutes. I remember how almost everyone thought it was a huge mistake to give Dajuan minutes at PG.
We aren’t at practice to see which players pickup coaching best. Some players just “click” with Self.
Gradey seems like he might be a high basketball IQ guy. I’m guessing here that he is on the “Self fast-track” path.
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@drgnslayr Some people might STILL argue it was a mistake to give Dajuan minutes even though we won the whole thing. Those people will be back this year claiming MJ should be getting more minutes over Dajuan. He doesn’t make the obviously outstanding plays so he will always be underappreciated.
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I don’t expect people to want MJ over DaJuan. But if Bobby starts playing really well or something you’ll definitely hear it.
Harris DOES need to be better this year though. He has to shoot and score more, and be a go-to guy in some clutch situation.
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@Kcmatt7 said in The 4-Out Rotation:
I don’t expect people to want MJ over DaJuan. But if Bobby starts playing really well or something you’ll definitely hear it.
Harris DOES need to be better this year though. He has to shoot and score more, and be a go-to guy in some clutch situation.
Supposedly the staff thinks he is on track for this. I need to see it in games.
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@BShark In the staff’s defense, they have absolutely crushed it with PGs outside of Naa and Garrett seasons.
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I think Harris will produce more points this year… but whatever happens, happens. His responsibility isn’t to score, but to run the show.
I remember when we pushed Sherron for more offense… and how that went… and he was a more skilled scorer who had some body for his drives.
I hope Harris spends more time working out offense with other players… earning himself some assists.
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@drgnslayr said in The 4-Out Rotation:
I think Harris will produce more points this year… but whatever happens, happens. His responsibility isn’t to score, but to run the show.
I remember when we pushed Sherron for more offense… and how that went… and he was a more skilled scorer who had some body for his drives.
I hope Harris spends more time working out offense with other players… earning himself some assists.
I think he just needs to get to around 9ppg if this team is going to get close to their ceiling.
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I am betting high on Joe Y. He has the skill set to become a solid scorer for us.
Last year he struggled with several issues, new to Self’s-system, health, not defined role etc.
This year Self has defined his role and I am certain that he has been at it in the offseason.
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@benshawks08 said in The 4-Out Rotation:
@drgnslayr Some people might STILL argue it was a mistake to give Dajuan minutes even though we won the whole thing. Those people will be back this year claiming MJ should be getting more minutes over Dajuan. He doesn’t make the obviously outstanding plays so he will always be underappreciated.
We as KU fans are pretty much used to PGs or lead guards that can offer more than what Dajuan offers. Better shooting, scoring, fancy passes, better size, strength, etc. So, it is what it is. I was one of those guys lined up last year to give more minutes to other guys for sure. I’ll likely be the same guy this year
If we have the ponies around him that can provide things he cannot while he’s on the floor, great. If not, maybe fewer minutes for Dajuan, and more or some minutes at least to guys with a more well rounded game.
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I understand what you are saying… but there is no better contribution at PG than being part of a national championship.
We all like to see guys capable of scoring… it just isn’t always the best contribution they can make, especially at PG.
I know I’m down for another championship year where Juan only scores a little but we double up our titles.
None of our other 4 players should feel like they can go on cruise control because Juan is now a threat. They all should feel like his points are totally bonus points.
Juan definitely needs to think team offense first, before he gets his points… though… when there is a clear out on the side he likes to drive and he’s facing someone he feels he can take… he should take it! When he gets that wide open trey shot he needs to put it up for a heat check. If he’s hot… keep shooting it. If he feels it, keep shooting it.
We don’t want to pressure him for points. That would be a disaster. He has to keep his focus first on team.
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@rockchalkjayhawk said in The 4-Out Rotation:
@benshawks08 said in The 4-Out Rotation:
@drgnslayr Some people might STILL argue it was a mistake to give Dajuan minutes even though we won the whole thing. Those people will be back this year claiming MJ should be getting more minutes over Dajuan. He doesn’t make the obviously outstanding plays so he will always be underappreciated.
We as KU fans are pretty much used to PGs or lead guards that can offer more than what Dajuan offers. Better shooting, scoring, fancy passes, better size, strength, etc. So, it is what it is. I was one of those guys lined up last year to give more minutes to other guys for sure. I’ll likely be the same guy this year
If we have the ponies around him that can provide things he cannot while he’s on the floor, great. If not, maybe fewer minutes for Dajuan, and more or some minutes at least to guys with a more well rounded game.
Here’s something else to consider that completely runs counter to this belief. Self has won two national championships with starting PG’s that were considered the 4th or 5th scoring option while on the floor. Each was more concerned with facilitating the offense and playing great defense leading to a lot of easy points for their teammates.
We might be more accustomed to Self teams with a lead guard that can score whenever he wants, but his most successful teams were the two that had playmakers rather than scorers running the show.
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@drgnslayr said in The 4-Out Rotation:
I understand what you are saying… but there is no better contribution at PG than being part of a national championship.
We all like to see guys capable of scoring… it just isn’t always the best contribution they can make, especially at PG.
I know I’m down for another championship year where Juan only scores a little but we double up our titles.
None of our other 4 players should feel like they can go on cruise control because Juan is now a threat. They all should feel like his points are totally bonus points.
Juan definitely needs to think team offense first, before he gets his points… though… when there is a clear out on the side he likes to drive and he’s facing someone he feels he can take… he should take it! When he gets that wide open trey shot he needs to put it up for a heat check. If he’s hot… keep shooting it. If he feels it, keep shooting it.
We don’t want to pressure him for points. That would be a disaster. He has to keep his focus first on team.
Sure, all well said @drgnslayr
I’m down with Dajuan. He fits in well with the team. We may be scoring deprived early on this year, so we’ll need some production from somewhere, incuding DH.
So, no bashing yet. Onward and upward.
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Don’t forget his D.
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Juando will be just fine. Team basketball requires someone to get the ball to the right players at the right spot at the right time, and he does that very well. He also defends very well most of the time. We need his experience on the floor. I know people are going to crow about his offense, but I would rather he play within himself, keep taking his 4 or 5 shots a game and help somebody else get a good shot.
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Just some random thoughts. Was listening to Swain in a podcast with Bossi , 1st my thoughts , as we know or have heard right now not really anyone standing out at the five. So call me crazy and probably won’t happen But I’m a Zuby Ejiofor guy. - He is dam man Was also listening to what Bossi said about him. - Bossi says He has tremendous activity around the rim , Crashes the boards and attacks the rim. Destined to do some really good things during his time at KU - -more fluid then Ernest - -has a mid range jumper Zuby can play some 4. - -Bossi said reminds him of T-Rob Body - -Size - - Activity around the rim -Gonna be hard to keep him off the floor.
I think for awhile were gonna see the 5 by Committee -don’t get me wrong like Ernest too - - Ernest just a little more raw offensively, Bossi also said about Ernest he at times takes things to heart a little to much - -confidence might get down. - -To me he better toughen up if that’s the case cause Coach Self can get kinda hard at times and as we know you get in his dog house hard to get out.
Like I said In Reality I don’t think Zuby wins out -probably Zach - -just kinda my pick- right now anyways - - Think in time were gonna be blessed with these guys if they all stick around… Another thing Bossi was asked - -how he seen them playing together , and he said it was kind of hard to say because he said a lot of these guys won’t be playing with some of these guys when they came in because of various things the portal and such. Said you could almost count on transfers just the way it is - - we shall see
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@jayballer67 said in The 4-Out Rotation:
Just some random thoughts. Was listening to Swain in a podcast with Bossi , 1st my thoughts , as we know or have heard right now not really anyone standing out at the five. So call me crazy and probably won’t happen But I’m a Zuby Ejiofor guy. - He is dam man Was also listening to what Bossi said about him. - Bossi says He has tremendous activity around the rim , Crashes the boards and attacks the rim. Destined to do some really good things during his time at KU - -more fluid then Ernest - -has a mid range jumper Zuby can play some 4. - -Bossi said reminds him of T-Rob Body - -Size - - Activity around the rim -Gonna be hard to keep him off the floor.
I think for awhile were gonna see the 5 by Committee -don’t get me wrong like Ernest too - - Ernest just a little more raw offensively, Bossi also said about Ernest he at times takes things to heart a little to much - -confidence might get down. - -To me he better toughen up if that’s the case cause Coach Self can get kinda hard at times and as we know you get in his dog house hard to get out.
Like I said In Reality I don’t think Zuby wins out -probably Zach - -just kinda my pick- right now anyways - - Think in time were gonna be blessed with these guys if they all stick around… Another thing Bossi was asked - -how he seen them playing together , and he said it was kind of hard to say because he said a lot of these guys won’t be playing with some of these guys when they came in because of various things the portal and such. Said you could almost count on transfers just the way it is - - we shall see
Count me on the Zuby train. At some point, he’s going to figure out what to do. Then that elite athleticism is going to take over, and he’s going to be really good.
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The time for us to bug Dajuan to score more is when he puts up some high %s… like 40% from trey!
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@rockchalkjayhawk I’ve been saying trob but txhawk claimed no way
Clemence KJ/Zuby
Hearing from the scrimmage TJ for Illini and Skyy were guard isn’t ideal but Self I’m sure was all over with lineups
Encouraging is he said Joe was really really good and for us to be good we need good Joe
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I’ll be happy if he can float into that 7-10 ppg range nightly for the rest of his career here. That keeps a defense somewhat honest.
The biggest thing I want to see from him on offense going forward is getting to the FT line. I think he has the lowest FT % rate of any starter that’s ever played under Self. He has 34 FT attempts in over 1600 minutes so far at KU. He simply has to get better at this. Easy points are there for him if he’s savvy enough to take advantage.
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@BeddieKU23 said in The 4-Out Rotation:
I’ll be happy if he can float into that 7-10 ppg range nightly for the rest of his career here. That keeps a defense somewhat honest.
The biggest thing I want to see from him on offense going forward is getting to the FT line. I think he has the lowest FT % rate of any starter that’s ever played under Self. He has 34 FT attempts in over 1600 minutes so far at KU. He simply has to get better at this. Easy points are there for him if he’s savvy enough to take advantage.
Bingo. Just want him to make the defense be honest. We do not have a Remy to come in off the bench to make up for the lack of scoring from him.
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Good perspective!
I think opposing PGs tended to fall back and not play him tight… challenging him to pump up treys. I think if he puts up better trey numbers the defense will play him tighter and it should send him to the line more.
Otherwise… he can get there by penetrating more. I’m not sure that is what Self wanted. He had CB, Och and Wilson for that.
I expect his game to shift to what the team needs. Hard to say he wasn’t effective last year since we won it all.
Your idea is a solid argument… I’m on “wait and see” mode now… and will better evaluate after I see this team play some games first.
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Self swears by this kid. He says he’s improved again. I’m interested to see what exactly he’s improved at. We know he’s a great game manager with a good supporting cast but now that role changes without the same cast. He’s a vet, he’s trusted, he’ll have the ball in his hands. His growth/improvement at least in my eyes shifts to other parts of the position. Agree if he proves a reliable shooter then the defense shifts. I’m interested to see as well and eagerly awaiting games to see what “more” he can bring.
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If he learns to drive and dish a bit later, his FT opportunities should increase.
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I think he mostly has more confidence. And he will do whatever Self asks of him. If Self advises him to be more aggressive as a scorer… he will! I do hope he’s worked on being more aggressive and put up some serious trey reps in the off-season.
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So, not having heard otherwise, I believe I’ll see Zach Clemence on the floor to start the game. Prove me wrong. Whoops, that’s Reddit.
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Expect KJ fyi
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I wanted to say we might be seeing some Dick tonite, but for some reason, it just didn’t sound right. So, should get our first look at Gradey, Udeh, Zuby and McCullars tonite as well as the regulars.
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Yahoo thinks like some on this board…defense will be great, but offense a possible struggle.
- Initiating offense against Kansas will be an absolute nightmare for opponents this season, but where are the Jayhawks’ points going to come from? The reigning champs have less offensive talent than previous Bill Self teams and could struggle to live up to their preseason No. 5 ranking as a result.
