"Bill Self... needed on Aisle 7, please!
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@Texas-Hawk-10 I’m curious how much value then do you think self brings to a game as it’s happening?
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@benshawks08 said in "Bill Self... needed on Aisle 7, please!:
@Texas-Hawk-10 I’m curious how much value then do you think self brings to a game as it’s happening?
A lot, but as the list I just posted of times KU played like shit and either lost or played a shit team much closer than that game should’ve been. Sometimes it doesn’t make a damn bit of difference what Self says or does in a game, the team just isn’t going to be as focused or engaged as they should be. Last night was one of those games because KU clearly wasn’t engaged on defense and I don’t think Self being on the bench would’ve changed much. The substitution patterns may have been a little different with Self on the bench, but I don’t think it would’ve changed the final score much. I think it would’ve been a game where Self let his guys struggle to prove a point.
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@benshawks08 said in "Bill Self... needed on Aisle 7, please!:
@Jethro to be clear. I’m not even that upset about the game. They found a way to win on a night they didn’t play well with the added handicap of not having the best coach in college basketball on their bench.
My post was a general missive, not aimed at comments as much as the general feeling of unease after a really sucky game. We looked terrible…lol. As fans, we want them operating like every game is the national championship. Me…you…every KU fan. But they’re kids…smart kids. They knew SUU wasn’t Dook. They played with their food for almost 2 hours before they barely scraped by. It happens every year.
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@benshawks08 said in "Bill Self... needed on Aisle 7, please!:
I am curious if folks think jalen will continue to shoot over 20 shots a night with self back at the helm. Have we had a player with that level of usage? Feels like he’s either shooting or assisting on nearly every play.
Him and Gradey have to shoot and score. That’s the bulk of our offense. Until a third guy steps up, he’s gotta take shots.
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I wasn’t watching. That’s why they almost lost.
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@rockchalkjayhawk I’m hoping MJ accepts the team concept and I think he’ll start adding pts. We need him too.
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@wissox said in "Bill Self... needed on Aisle 7, please!:
I wasn’t watching. That’s why they almost lost.
- Best reason I’ve heard so far!
- Best reason I’ve heard so far!
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I am flummoxed by the idea that anyone could think that Norm coached the game very differently from how the guy he has assisted for some two decades would have wanted him to.
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@rockchalkjayhawk said in "Bill Self... needed on Aisle 7, please!:
@benshawks08 said in "Bill Self... needed on Aisle 7, please!:
I am curious if folks think jalen will continue to shoot over 20 shots a night with self back at the helm. Have we had a player with that level of usage? Feels like he’s either shooting or assisting on nearly every play.
Him and Gradey have to shoot and score. That’s the bulk of our offense. Until a third guy steps up, he’s gotta take shots.
I sure hope McCullar gets his offensive game going. He should be our third, consistent scorer. I penciled him in for 13-15 pts a game before I knew Gradey was going to do so well. If McCullar scores 10 pts or more per game, I would like to see Dajuan also at 10 per game. The 5 spot will just be a mystery although KJ has been getting some points while sharing minutes at the 5.
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@benshawks08 said in "Bill Self... needed on Aisle 7, please!:
@Texas-Hawk-10 Bill self is really good at that stuff. Would you say he’s better at that stuff than Coach Roberts?
You are arguing with a contrarian that has never been wrong
. I have found it best to just ignore that account.-edit for all who misread - block and ignore are two completely different things. There is no point conversing with someone who will never concede a point.
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@dylans Ignoring it probably would include not taking potshots from the side, of which this last one was not your first. Until your comment, it was a spirited discussion. If I recall, you got so mad at people disagreeing with you that you threw out some snide comments and left for awhile.
Can’t you just let your feud with TH go?
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@dylans that’s the one negative about this board. Any info that isn’t in agreement with many’s view then is blocked or ignored.
Eventually it’s just sunshine pumpers who all agree constantly
@Texas-Hawk-10 is solid whether you agree with his takes or not. He like you are entitled to also think their thoughts aren’t wrong
Blocking him is immaturity of handling someone with a different viewpoint
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@mayjay I hate people that just take shots rather than arguing their viewpoint. When they do that it shows they have no argument just want to name call like a 12 year old because they can’t pontificate on the hawks
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@stoptheflop said in "Bill Self... needed on Aisle 7, please!:
@rockchalkjayhawk said in "Bill Self... needed on Aisle 7, please!:
@benshawks08 said in "Bill Self... needed on Aisle 7, please!:
I am curious if folks think jalen will continue to shoot over 20 shots a night with self back at the helm. Have we had a player with that level of usage? Feels like he’s either shooting or assisting on nearly every play.
Him and Gradey have to shoot and score. That’s the bulk of our offense. Until a third guy steps up, he’s gotta take shots.
I sure hope McCullar gets his offensive game going. He should be our third, consistent scorer. I penciled him in for 13-15 pts a game before I knew Gradey was going to do so well. If McCullar scores 10 pts or more per game, I would like to see Dajuan also at 10 per game. The 5 spot will just be a mystery although KJ has been getting some points while sharing minutes at the 5.
Yup, McCullar should be that guy for sure.
I must have selective memory, because I don’t recall his offensive game at TT at all. At the very least I would hope with his size and ability he could score at the rim.
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@kuballin10 said in "Bill Self... needed on Aisle 7, please!:
@mayjay I hate people that just take shots rather than arguing their viewpoint. When they do that it shows they have no argument just want to name call like a 12 year old because they can’t pontificate on the hawks
You and I have haad our moments huh buddy ? -Yet like I stated or at least I think I have , or at least tried to say or get a crossed this is a forum and everybody has a right to their opinions, sure they may get heated at times maybe but that’s what’s great about America – freedom of Speech - -Freedom of expression.
You haven’t agreed with everything I’ve said and that’s fine - -I sure haven’t agreed with some of yours BUT at the end of the day were all still KU fans. -Life is to short and I am to old to worry about arguing about ttrival things like sports when there are A LOT more important things in life to worry about.
Used to be I kinda though some that TexHawk was kind of an arrogant ass-- sorry , but the longer I got to know him , reading his posts - -the guy really is very knowledigble and brings up good points. - -just because he doesn’t wear Crimso n and Blue glasses all the time makes some not like him or can’t get along with him. – Were all fine , just some different views that’s all
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@rockchalkjayhawk said in "Bill Self... needed on Aisle 7, please!:
@stoptheflop said in "Bill Self... needed on Aisle 7, please!:
@rockchalkjayhawk said in "Bill Self... needed on Aisle 7, please!:
@benshawks08 said in "Bill Self... needed on Aisle 7, please!:
I am curious if folks think jalen will continue to shoot over 20 shots a night with self back at the helm. Have we had a player with that level of usage? Feels like he’s either shooting or assisting on nearly every play.
Him and Gradey have to shoot and score. That’s the bulk of our offense. Until a third guy steps up, he’s gotta take shots.
I sure hope McCullar gets his offensive game going. He should be our third, consistent scorer. I penciled him in for 13-15 pts a game before I knew Gradey was going to do so well. If McCullar scores 10 pts or more per game, I would like to see Dajuan also at 10 per game. The 5 spot will just be a mystery although KJ has been getting some points while sharing minutes at the 5.
Yup, McCullar should be that guy for sure.
I must have selective memory, because I don’t recall his offensive game at TT at all. At the very least I would hope with his size and ability he could score at the rim.
McCullar average 10/ game the last 2 years with TexTech. In KU’s offense and with other scorers to occupy the defenders, I sure would think he would score more this year.
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@mayjay said in "Bill Self... needed on Aisle 7, please!:
I am flummoxed by the idea that anyone could think that Norm coached the game very differently from how the guy he has assisted for some two decades would have wanted him to.
I’m not saying norm did anything wrong. Or even anything that self wouldn’t wanted him to do. But I’m flummoxed by the idea that anyone could think that not having BILL FREAKING SELF on the sidelines wasn’t a significant factor for the last 4 games.
I’m sure norm knows a lot of what self would do, say, and even think in most situations. But I’d sure hope that it’s pretty clear that Bill self is a unique coaching talent.
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@stoptheflop said in "Bill Self... needed on Aisle 7, please!:
@rockchalkjayhawk said in "Bill Self... needed on Aisle 7, please!:
@stoptheflop said in "Bill Self... needed on Aisle 7, please!:
@rockchalkjayhawk said in "Bill Self... needed on Aisle 7, please!:
@benshawks08 said in "Bill Self... needed on Aisle 7, please!:
I am curious if folks think jalen will continue to shoot over 20 shots a night with self back at the helm. Have we had a player with that level of usage? Feels like he’s either shooting or assisting on nearly every play.
Him and Gradey have to shoot and score. That’s the bulk of our offense. Until a third guy steps up, he’s gotta take shots.
I sure hope McCullar gets his offensive game going. He should be our third, consistent scorer. I penciled him in for 13-15 pts a game before I knew Gradey was going to do so well. If McCullar scores 10 pts or more per game, I would like to see Dajuan also at 10 per game. The 5 spot will just be a mystery although KJ has been getting some points while sharing minutes at the 5.
Yup, McCullar should be that guy for sure.
I must have selective memory, because I don’t recall his offensive game at TT at all. At the very least I would hope with his size and ability he could score at the rim.
McCullar average 10/ game the last 2 years with TexTech. In KU’s offense and with other scorers to occupy the defenders, I sure would think he would score more this year.
I feel like Kevin is taking good shots. They just haven’t really fallen for him.
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@benshawks08 said in "Bill Self... needed on Aisle 7, please!:
@stoptheflop said in "Bill Self... needed on Aisle 7, please!:
@rockchalkjayhawk said in "Bill Self... needed on Aisle 7, please!:
@stoptheflop said in "Bill Self... needed on Aisle 7, please!:
@rockchalkjayhawk said in "Bill Self... needed on Aisle 7, please!:
@benshawks08 said in "Bill Self... needed on Aisle 7, please!:
I am curious if folks think jalen will continue to shoot over 20 shots a night with self back at the helm. Have we had a player with that level of usage? Feels like he’s either shooting or assisting on nearly every play.
Him and Gradey have to shoot and score. That’s the bulk of our offense. Until a third guy steps up, he’s gotta take shots.
I sure hope McCullar gets his offensive game going. He should be our third, consistent scorer. I penciled him in for 13-15 pts a game before I knew Gradey was going to do so well. If McCullar scores 10 pts or more per game, I would like to see Dajuan also at 10 per game. The 5 spot will just be a mystery although KJ has been getting some points while sharing minutes at the 5.
Yup, McCullar should be that guy for sure.
I must have selective memory, because I don’t recall his offensive game at TT at all. At the very least I would hope with his size and ability he could score at the rim.
McCullar average 10/ game the last 2 years with TexTech. In KU’s offense and with other scorers to occupy the defenders, I sure would think he would score more this year.
I feel like Kevin is taking good shots. They just haven’t really fallen for him.
I would like to see Kevin take more shots. At least 10 a game. Edit: I just looked at his stats and he’s taken 31 shots, so 7.75/game so far.
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Sounds like I picked a good time for a date night
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Kevin will benefit from when the offense gains more structure. He is way better than he has shown so far.
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@jayballer67 right on man!
Differing views but should all be grown ups about it. I may disagree but I’m never truly mad for someone not seeing things like I see them
@benshawks08 - 100% agree Self should make a difference. Doesn’t mean we don’t have duds under him but if he and norm are identical than what’s the big difference lol. There has to be a difference!
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@BShark Kevin can’t shoot that’s the problem. He’s been plenty wide open and at the elbow just can’t shoot.
His shooting at tech after the injury might truly be who he is.
@FarmerJayhawk - did we ever go after Shannon at IL? He would have been absolutely money with Juan distributing to him, Wilson and Gradey. Shannon averaging 23/game.
That’s where I think Bill falls short he takes a defensive guy like Kevin when Shannon would have been a stud. Could have taught him to improve on D. Can’t make Kevin a better shooter overnight
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@kuballin10 said in "Bill Self... needed on Aisle 7, please!:
@BShark Kevin can’t shoot that’s the problem. He’s been plenty wide open and at the elbow just can’t shoot.
His shooting at tech after the injury might truly be who he is.
@FarmerJayhawk - did we ever go after Shannon at IL? He would have been absolutely money with Juan distributing to him, Wilson and Gradey. Shannon averaging 23/game.
That’s where I think Bill falls short he takes a defensive guy like Kevin when Shannon would have been a stud. Could have taught him to improve on D. Can’t make Kevin a better shooter overnight
Even last year he was better than this. His numbers are completely terrible.
Shannon was not an option otherwise I imagine Bill would have been interested but Farmer would know more than me there.
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Southern Utah a team who had shown they could score 80 plus this year underscored the reality of this year’s team. We are unsettled everywhere except JWill and Juan. Now GD is really good but being a freshman he will disappear at times just like Wiggins and Josh Jackson did. The game before this one his offense disappeared in the second half and this game he was scoreless until quite late in the second half. We need the other two and three guards to be more productive to keep games from getting dicey like this one. And our big’s are what, where and/or who knows. We’re vulnerable in games when we are not fully locked in and will be until like mid January or later or hopefully sooner.
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I will say this about trusting Bill…
We all wanted the Mosley kid who Bill passed on and he ended up at Missouri. He does not start and is averaging 6 points a game…
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@BShark said in "Bill Self... needed on Aisle 7, please!:
I will say this about trusting Bill…
We all wanted the Mosley kid who Bill passed on and he ended up at Missouri. He does not start and is averaging 6 points a game…
Yikes. If you can’t get on the floor for Missouri….
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@kuballin10 nope. He wanted to go home.
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@Zabudda I agree 100% and would only add, “and that’s ok.” Because they will get better. It’s an adventure. Even last year’s team was an adventure in Dec and Jan and parts of Feb… and those dudes knew the system.
This team has different challenges, but the point is that every team goes through growing pains to incorporate the new pieces. But the common denominator is Coach Self, who is a master of forging a pretty solid team from the parts each year. It doesn’t always work out perfectly, but his conference record over the years suggests that no one does it better.
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Classic let down game and I was worried we’d get one. We saw the flaws of this squad and good thing Self is back to steer the ship
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This has turned out to be a pretty good thread. I think sometimes we can all over-argue our own points thinking others in here aren’t listening to us. I can hardly find a point in here where I don’t agree… and the overstatements often end up exquisite reads for me. A big part of my Jayhawk experience (at this point) is connecting with you all and sharing our opinions and ideas. A+
I think it is a far reach for anyone to say that having Self on the bench wouldn’t have impacted the game. But it is even possible we lose this game with Self on the bench… maybe our guys would have been even more out of sync because of higher anxiety. That is possible, though I think more and more improbable as Self ages with his wisdom growth from the game. We have such a great HOFr because he constantly shows his own personal growth in coaching.
Still… lots of great content here about trap games. “Falling off the mountain top” will always be a part of college basketball (and all sports).
I hope I didn’t seem to belittle Coach Roberts. I’m certain he adds a great deal to the success of Self and KU basketball. I did notice his game style was quite a bit different from Self… whether for good or bad… we really won’t have a way to prove the difference as we move forward.
Let’s not forget that I’m the guy who has previously questioned Self getting his teams amped up enough for some games. This was a fascinating topic back in the Jaybate days…
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Enjoyed reading the discussion on this topic, thanks for starting it. I think it deserved to be talked about given we were in a unique spot where Self wasn’t the coach for 4 games. Ending 4-0 was the best-case scenario here and I think we all expected to see some ups and downs during it. It gave us a reality check of some sorts to what life after Self would be like. This wasn’t exactly that since he was still allowed to coach the team outside of gameday but still we could notice differences in Norm vs Self.
I do wonder about one scenario from the Southern Utah game, would Self have motivated them at halftime better? I tend to think he would but we have to also understand this is a very young team and this was exhibit A of normal growing pains with a team that hasn’t played a ton of basketball together. It was also 3 days after an emotionally charged win so classic letdown.
I do give credit to Southern Utah for coming into Allen Fieldhouse and playing poised and making the boys work for it. I actually think Self will probably look at this game as helpful in the long run. Guys had to fight to win, a lot of sloppy ball/mistakes to fight through.
I also look back at the Duke game and see the leadership Jalen and Juan provided to the team. Seemed like that was a big factor in winning that one. Again I bet Self is extremely pleased he’s got 2 extensions of himself on the court already. Wasn’t sure that part would shine so quickly but its clear Jalen/Juando going to lead this group to good things.
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@BeddieKU23 Self is well-known for his half time motivation!
! I do love how well the KU team always respects the other coaches. Gradey said Morningstar talked to him when he was on the bench about getting after it when he got back in. (Duke game)
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Perfect.
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I thought Norm did a great job. I’m ready for Bill to get back, though.
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@Jethro said in "Bill Self... needed on Aisle 7, please!:
I thought Norm did a great job. I’m ready for Bill to get back, though.
This is the correct take. Both things are definitely true.
