Bill Self "growth stunter"



  • You all ready for 3rd - 4th place in the Big 12?

    Coach neutered an All American guard (nice 3 for his 21st bucket 25 minutes in…brutal coach way to screw guys mentally in order to toughen them up but just mess it all up) so instead of having a big 3 we have a big 1 1/2 depending on Braun.

    Coach followed that up with a guy who can beat anyone off the dribble and score with the shortest leash I’ve ever seen.

    Have we gotten more athletic and better as the man himself said after last years round of 32 drubbing? Nope so be prepared for another early exit.

    When you can’t beat a team that’s not even full strenght on the road it’s going to be a long year.

    Basketball is best when the big is a 7 foot athletic rim runner (see Baylor) with minimal athletic skill. Block shots, set screens, rebound, dunk on lobs.

    You play 5 out and space the floor. The old adage of “you have to throw it into the post to open up things” has been disproved for a while now (see the warriors on spacing and ball movement in modern basketball).

    Hey another Harris turnover no surprise there…Pettiford can’t ever have it taken from him but he’d never played ahead of Harris because “Harri’s went undefeated in summer ball” - per the man himself. Get out of here on putting emphasis on something so meaningless.

    Guys can know your system but when not athletic enough won’t make the plays. You stunted the athletes you did have by handcuffing them.

    You made your bed now you lie in it.



  • Yeah that being said I’d take Self over any college coach in the game right now



  • Scott Drew & Jay Wright

    The guy at ISU has them playing D all over the place. I’ve watched 4 of their games and Tristan is active and aggressive not scared to be yanked.

    I don’t know if homers would claim the systems to complicated or what but our guys look like early 2000’s with defensive scheme compared to isu and Baylor.

    Why 1 guy gets a leash and another doesn’t makes no sense. As a coach your job is to have us playing the best in March and get the absolute most out of our guys. Self doesn’t do that it’s the exact opposite unless you are one of his pets.

    Remy should be like Akinjo leading this team with Och and Braun instead he’s neutered. Self instilled no confidence in him and deserves everything he’s got coming to him with his lack of developing these players.

    Joe came in looks aggressive in FL. He is all over on defense (not always in the right position but defense matters to self and man’ing up he can do) and he’s so athletic he immediately comes in beats his man off the dribble for lobs to our bigs.

    Meanwhile Harris who is a solid backup is the new Frank mason in selfs mind and has to be on the floor even when he gets beat off the dribble or turns it over back to back possessions yet never is yanked.

    That’s bad coaching. Even coach Saban has grown that his young team he can’t berate as much and has to encourage.

    Self hasn’t evolved he’s actually digressed and his lack of playing better athletes is exposed more as our roster isn’t full of all Americans.



  • So Jay and Drew have passed Self in a month? Ok.

    Look, it’s no secret why KU has struggled to land top tier talent the last recruiting cycle. And it’s not because of coaching. ISU is a paper tiger. They play hard but we’ll blow their doors off because they can’t score at all and haven’t played anyone.

    Self’s defense is complicated, that’s well documented. And it works. Remy had no accountability or structure at ASU (source: Remy) so he’s getting used to playing a different style. ASU didn’t win jack with Remy as their best player so not like that’s what we should aim for. He’s clearly not a scrub, but he’s a good #2 on a title team.

    I agree Yes should be playing more. I like him as the first guard off the bench, JCL the first wing, Wilson to the practice gym. Juan also bailed us out on multiple possessions tonight. With Remy far less than 100% he was our only reliable ballhandler. Yes is a scoring guard, not a point.

    Self is the best in league play. History says we’ll get better as we go.



  • @kuballin10

    Okay… you get the award for kicking some life into this group. Keep up the critical approach… everyone needs to be challenged in here and that hasn’t really happened since HEM left.

    What worked tonight was Self ripping DMac’s ass. I couldn’t believe what I was seeing… David actually lifting his legs and running the court like everyone else. On one play he scored at the rim and made it back quicker than anyone and rebounding a fastbreak shot from OSU. Bravo!

    Who didn’t get ripped tonight, and clearly deserved it… was Och! It’s like he went out there and got his points early and then went on cruise control. Not sure what is on his mind… but what is on my mind is he is reverting to old habits of becoming invisible in games. He definitely did NOT raise his NBA stock tonight! Quite the opposite.

    OSU just plain sucked! I’m still surprised we pulled out of there with a victory.

    As I mentioned before the game… this would be a game won by possessions. Look at the stat sheet… the guys who rebounded lead the +/- category by a substantial amount. Braun is keeping his role as Superman. DMac finally elevated his game. The guy who matters as much as anyone else on this team, Wilson… still stunk on his shot, his rut continues… but he nabs 15 boards in 26 minutes. He is going to matter in our success this year as much as anyone. Maybe he kicks in gear when Self chews his ass out there.

    I’m a Self fan… make no mistake about it. But if you read back on my rants for all these years you will discover my view of Self’s Achille’s heal as being not able to get his troops emotionally psyched for games and play hard… like Jay Wright is effective. Drew and Baylor… a completely different story. They have an NBA approach (in some ways) because they realize how important it is to have the complete package from the main office down to the water boy. I don’t expect Baylor to fall from the top of the Big 12 (or nation) anytime soon. As a true fan of the sport itself, my hat tips to coaches like Wright and Drew.

    If you exam the stat line on Self… he’s achieved a great deal. I still remain critical about Kansas basketball but as I have aged I don’t downgrade Self as much because I see other schools passing us. Instead, I acknowledge those schools on the move for what they are achieving. Just not a fan of Calipari and K.



  • @kuballin10 said in Bill Self "growth stunter":

    Remy should be like Akinjo leading this team with Och and Braun instead he’s neutered.

    Totally agree with this statement. What’s the point of playing Remy — a guy who doesn’t remotely fit Self’s defensive mold — if he’s barely allowed to use his offensive talent!?

    Makes no sense. If Pettiford was healthy, I’d advocate playing him for his all around play over neutered Remy.

    I sure hope there’s a Self grand plan here that we aren’t privy to.



  • We just won a road game in a place where we historically struggle by double digits while missing 20 straight shots. Was it ugly at times , yes it was. But guess what… that’s conference play on the road.

    Remy still isn’t 100% and I think that is why he wasn’t very aggressive last night.



  • I will say this if Self watches film and thinks Jalen Wilson should be playing 20 minutes a game he’s straight up crazy. Great he rebounded but he’s got zero game on offense and the defense is even worse. I have no idea what he is doing tbh



  • I do think we are criticizing the #4 offense in the country a bit much… While I can hear the argument that this team isn’t playing up to their full offensive potential, they are still an elite offense. This while Dave has been mostly butt, Remy hasn’t been at 100%, and Wilson is playing 25 mpg while on a stretch that makes me yearn for the offensive prowess of freshman Marcus Garrett.

    While I do agree that we should have looked for a rim protector big man, I don’t think it is the end of the world. I don’t have that same feeling of worry for the 1st round exit like I did a year ago. Just too much talent imo. Ignoring the Dayton fluke, the next closest game has been an 8 point win.

    Also, we should all get used to winning ugly. Because that is going to be the B12 this year.

    Kenpom D Ratings:

    • Baylor #5
    • Kansas #30
    • Texas #9
    • Tech #10
    • OU #36
    • OSU #19
    • ISU #7
    • KSU #45
    • TCU #52
    • WVU #27
    • Kentucky #15

    Literally not a “Bad” defense left on the schedule. The B12 is going to be a bunch of fist fights where very few wins feel like they come easy.



  • It has been concerning that this team is struggling to score in the last two games. Perhaps it’s a product of the 11 day break and getting back into flow and getting momentum going forward. Just feels like we have only certain pieces playing to their potential and when you don’t have 5 guys on the same page it looks bad at times. It looks like JCL is starting to carve a real role with real value with his shot making.

    Definitely a murders row of defenses. If they are truly a top 5 offense they will find ways to make good defenses look average



  • @BeddieKU23 We fell apart the second he took Juan out, and put in JW.



  • @BeddieKU23 I think our offense flowed best when we had a healthy Remy and a Pettiford driving the lane, and opening up the floor for OCH and Braun. We need a healthy Remy, and a healthy Pettiford. I also think we are giving too many minutes to JW, and too few to Yes. He’ll work it out, though.



  • @Jethro I agree on all points.



  • Yesufu and Adams definitely need to play more. Kind of lost in the shuffle and playing time debate? Clemence.



  • @Kcmatt7 said in Bill Self "growth stunter":

    I do think we are criticizing the #4 offense in the country a bit much… While I can hear the argument that this team isn’t playing up to their full offensive potential, they are still an elite offense. This while Dave has been mostly butt, Remy hasn’t been at 100%, and Wilson is playing 25 mpg while on a stretch that makes me yearn for the offensive prowess of freshman Marcus Garrett.

    While I do agree that we should have looked for a rim protector big man, I don’t think it is the end of the world. I don’t have that same feeling of worry for the 1st round exit like I did a year ago. Just too much talent imo. Ignoring the Dayton fluke, the next closest game has been an 8 point win.

    Also, we should all get used to winning ugly. Because that is going to be the B12 this year.

    Kenpom D Ratings:

    • Baylor #5
    • Kansas #30
    • Texas #9
    • Tech #10
    • OU #36
    • OSU #19
    • ISU #7
    • KSU #45
    • TCU #52
    • WVU #27
    • Kentucky #15

    Literally not a “Bad” defense left on the schedule. The B12 is going to be a bunch of fist fights where very few wins feel like they come easy.

    Not quite sure how you come to the conclusion that we are an elite offense. Based on what? We literally haven’t played a top 50 caliber team other than Michigan State in the very first game. In fact, MSU is the only team we’ve played that is in the Kenpom top 50. Only 5 are in the top 100 (and Iona barely). 8 of our 12 wins have come against teams with Kenpom defensive efficiency rankings above 100. Statistically, Oklahoma St. is the best defense we’ve played against - #19 in Kempom defensive rankings - and we saw how that turned out. The saving grace is that their offense is offensive - ranked 140th.

    I don’t think there is any basis for concluding we have an “elite” offense at this juncture. Time will tell whether last night was an indication of true color against a quality defense or an aberration. If the former, we are going to struggle mightily against the teams you’ve noted - all of which have better offensives than OSU…



  • Just a reminder. In 2020 this coach who doesn’t have it any more was a pandemic away from his 2nd national championship. No guarantees of course but as good as that team was playing no one would have been surprised if they had won it all. While none of those guys has distinguished themselves so far, 3 of them were future NBA players and 2 more Braun and Ochai are likely NBA players. He had nice talent and they were playing at a high level.



  • The best coaches in any sport are stubborn, but also flexible. Stubborn because they know what works, but flexible enough to make necessary adjustments to fit their situation, personnel and style.

    Self has proven that he is stubborn. Now he has to show some flexibility.

    The best players on this team are perimeter guys. That means interior guys are on the floor to play hard, grab rebounds and dunk lobs. That’s it. They get few or no post touches because that’s not the strength of this team. Last night, Big Dave got going because he was pursuing every rebound. That has to continue. He has to understand that most of his offense will come from putbacks, so he better get on the glass on both ends. Same for Mitch. Same for whoever else gets minutes at the 5.

    Self demands accountability, which is great. He also has to know which guys need more space to play. Remy Martin did zero for most of the game, then iced the game with a couple big time buckets down the stretch. He should be that type of threat from the opening bucket. Agbaji started hot, then disappeared due to foul trouble and cold shooting for almost 20 minutes. Where’s a play drawn up to get him a good look? Same for Braun. Why aren’t plays getting drawn up to keep your two All American level wings involved offensively?

    Those are the adjustments necessary because the defenses are going to get better. They have film to review now. They know what’s coming. So now you have to show some schemes to get Agbaji and Braun loose on offense with something other than stepback threes. Why aren’t we seeing some Agbaji/Braun fade screen action? Why don’t we see them iso’d for a little two man game. Both can handle, pass, and shoot. Why aren’t we combining that? We need that creativity because they can carry us to and through March.



  • @DCHawker I don’t really know how you can use kenpom rankings as an argument against the offense, and then ignore that kenpom has KU ranked as the 4th best offensive team in the country.

    I mean out of the top 10 in Kenpom, we’ve played the 2nd hardest schedule so far. And our defensive schedule is actually 37th in the country. So as far as scoring against good defenses, we have done it against a top 15% schedule.

    Meaning we have the 7th best FG% and 8th most points ppg in the country against a reasonably hard schedule.

    Teams ahead of us in FG%

    • Gonzaga - 265 SOS - 252 DSOS
    • Colorado State - 269 SOS - 246 DSOS
    • South Dakota State - 132 SOS - 140 DSOS
    • Purdue - 114 SOS - 214 DSOS
    • Loyola (IL) - 147 SOS - 84 DSOS
    • Murray State - 164 SOS - 277 DSOS

    The only team playing anywhere near our level of schedule and scoring the ball more efficiently than us is Loyola Chicago. If you do the same with PPG, the story is basically the same. Except sub out CSU and Loyola for Cornell (278 SOS - 320 DSOS), Arizona (157 SOS - 184 DSOS) and Iowa (255 SOS - 209 DSOS).

    Point being - KU is scoring the ball very well pretty much no matter how you want to look at it. And they’ve done it against a way harder schedule than the majority of the other top teams in the country so far.



  • Ok. I’m going to throw this out there but I do think some people may be discounting JWs rebounding as a DEFENSIVE skill. Yes he may bet blown by or miss an assignment, but without him (and new Dave last night) we have struggled to END defensive possessions.

    The rebounding WAS the difference last night. Getting this offense more possessions is a fairly simple recipe for success. And yes, to this point, this team has been successful as someone above pointed out the only loss coming on a last second miracle.



  • @benshawks08 that’s why he’s playing



  • @Kcmatt7 Fair point about using Kenpom defensive rankings, but not reflecting our Kenpom offensive efficiency ranking. I will continue to take issue with the strength of our schedule, which - admittedly without a deeper dive - seems to have been the weakest non-conference schedule for KU in memory. It’s “strength” is a reflection of the fact that - unlike others - we haven’t played any really bad teams. Only 2 with losing records. Lowest Kenpom ranking is Stony Brook at 209. But, other than MSU, we also haven’t played any very good teams - again, MSU is the only one ranked in the top 50. And, MSU is likely the only at-large caliber team we’ve played in non-conference (UK will be one more). Contrast our schedule with Iowa State. Ours is ranked much higher, which is a product of the fact that half of ISU’s wins are against objectively bad teams. But, they also have beaten 3-4 at-large caliber teams (Iowa, Xavier, Creighton and Memphis) and their only loss is a much “better” loss than ours. I’m just saying that at least I find it hard to draw any conclusions about KU generally, including offensive capability, given the schedule we’ve played. We simply haven’t demonstrated YET that we can or will be efficient against quality opposition.



  • I guess it just depends on what particular site you look at , will give you various opinions about where your team is as far as strength of schedule goes. - you look at 10 different sites - -you more likely then not your going to get 10 different answers. I’ve voiced my opinion whether you agree , disagree , it’s all good we are all entitled to our own opinion or whatever. My thoughts are at THIS POINT could change tomorrow the next day whatever , but my question at THIS POINT in the Season , if you were an opponent of KU - - - would KU put the fear of GOD into you ? - -Let me ask do you think is under rated should we be higher in the pols? - you feel we are not getting respect ? - -if you do whats you reasoning for that?

    I look at the way our Season has gone how we have played - defensively - - - -free throw pct’s - - - rebounding - -who do you think we should be above in the teams currently above us right now ? I watch this team and just at this point again it can change but right now - this is not a NCAA Champion team - -were a good team , a really good team but not an NCAA Champion team . You just don’t see that flow.

    Take Remy Martin , good player but he tries to make better plays/passes then what the simple pass would get the deuce and because of some of those passes they turn into turnovers , you take Jalen - good rebounder but defensively huge liability you watch - -focus on Jalen and his man sometime , he is getting beat consistently and his shooting pct is miserable , David ? - and I’m a Dave supporter BUT until this last game not even close to what he should be getting - he is at what like 5.8 rebounds somewhere like that, should be closer to at least 8 - that’s just the tip of things.

    You watch KU and then you watch Baylor teams like that just things different. - just like when Baylor was playing Iowa State at Hilton, Baylor ALWAYS had an answer, Iowa State make a run & Baylor always answered the challenge - -Their guard is an absolute stud - -good height - -very athletic. Am I saying KU can’t/wont beat them ? - -hell no I’m not just saying at this point Baylor is the better team , and like some others said right at this point an agrument for Iowa State could be made for giving KU fits looking to see how it works when WE go to Hilton.

    Like I said might have guys here think I’m a KU basher/hater. Think what you want is what I would say , you can do that , I’m just stating what I see. - -if you go on on of these streaks go 0-20 and a 9:112 drought in the tourney - -you will be blown out. Game over - - Season over - - Done.

    like I said in the beginning if your wanting to compare things just depends on what site you look at. I just looked at Strength of Schedule from the NCAA College Basketball and where the 5 other teams sit on their strength of schedule -they were this - -Baylor ( 15th ) - - -Duke ( 11th ) - -UCLA ( 9th ) - - - Gonzaga ( 3rd ) - - Purdue ( 20th ) - - - & KU ( 26th ) - -just sayin - just some thoughts your up to yours - -I ain’t mad at ya again you agree or not agree thats fine hope this doesn’t turn into war of words everyone is entitled to what they think & at this point I think w are ranked right about where we should be. Maybe even anotch or two high, BUT CERTAINLY not above any of these teams ranked above us



  • Lunardi has us back to a #1 seed again.



  • @mayjay said in Bill Self "growth stunter":

    Lunardi has us back to a #1 seed again.

    ya seen that today and I like the region and the teams thats in our bracket - -if it only turned out to be the case - - out of forth worth Texas



  • I’m not going to let KenPromNight tell me what my eyes see.

    KU Offense: Top 30

    KU Defense: Top 200

    We should be a lot tighter as we start conference play, especially considering we aren’t playing freshmen.

    “On any given night we can bet anyone!” That’s a great phrase, worthy of a bumpersticker. But when describing conference play I’d rather hear other comments about how superior we are to everyone else.

    Once again, we are starting conference play without a definite “team leader.” A floor general. Someone to rally the troops. Someone in between coach and players to bark orders. Someone controlling tempo. Someone reading defenses. Someone calling plays. You know… the way basketball used to be played.

    I am a big fan of Harris and Martin. Harris has a lot more potential left in his game as he grows into manhood. Martin… still trying to assess if and what he will be able to do more. I definitely think we need Bobby healthy and he should give us some good minutes ahead.

    Where is this team on the toughness scale? Anyone willing to reply?



  • @drgnslayr not going to lie, the Okie State game tampered my expectations for our team. So far, it looks like we’re playing for 2nd place in conference at best, and if we got to the sweet 16 I’d call it a good season.



  • @Marco

    It is so easy to feel this way… and at times, I do, too.

    But I also see a team with so much potential. Look at the bright side of this game. Maybe Dave is back and ready for a great season moving forward!

    It is a year we are really missing Marcus Garrett! We really need these guys to buy in to pressing hard on defense. Without that happening… we can’t go far. We’ve got the personnel to compete with anyone! We just need all 5 players on the floor bought in to heavy pressure every single play! Harris has bought in…

    I think Martin is a big key when it comes to defense. He may be our “quickest” player and he’s capable of stepping up more on D. He’s a guy that is so visible on the floor. You just can’t miss his play while he’s on the floor. He could do a lot to inspire others.

    The difference is 5%! We don’t need guys to just give 100%. Somewhere around 105% we will kick the sh*t out of every team in the nation, including Baylor!



  • @drgnslayr I forget which year it was that Self said his team was tough. Thinking it was the final four year, but it may have been the blowout loss to Oregon year too. I forget. May have been 2020 which was definitely a tough team. I went and looked at their schedule. They lost to Duke, Nova, Baylor, no slouches there of course, defeated national runner up TT twice and future NC Baylor. I think that team was tough.

    How do you quantify tough? Is it going unbeaten? Winning in tough places? Coming back in a game like we did the other night and overcoming an unheard of shooting slump? Is it just intimidating the heck out of everyone like Kentucky 2012 did? Is it playing lockdown defense? Or is it having an offense that will always score more than your shaky defense gives up?

    I’d think this years version of tough for us is looking to be the last one. Not thinking we’re going to ride our defense to a title, but I think our offense can carry us to a title.



  • @wissox said in Bill Self "growth stunter":

    How do you quantify tough? Is it going unbeaten? Winning in tough places? Coming back in a game like we did the other night and overcoming an unheard of shooting slump? Is it just intimidating the heck out of everyone like Kentucky 2012 did? Is it playing lockdown defense? Or is it having an offense that will always score more than your shaky defense gives up?

    I don’t always think the toughest teams win. I think part of it is optics. What we see. We see guys scrapping it out. Running at full speed on every play. Exhausted yet still hitting another gear.

    There are different kinds of tough. There is physical toughness. Being exhausted but still going hard. There is also mental toughness. Our current team is in good physical shape and we have a bench to help the minutes load. But what I did see at OSU was a certain amount of mental toughness. I didn’t see our guys give up. Didn’t see heads hanging low or frustration. If the sportscasters didn’t keep telling us, you couldn’t tell they had missed 20 or so shots in a row. That mental toughness impressed me. I was also impressed with David and his physical toughness. He stepped up and hustled.

    I see other guys not quite being tough enough in some areas.



  • Tough means not soft. Win while playing ugly. I think we had some long discussions a few years ago about playing ugly. I’m not sure how to quantify any of these classic Self phrases, but they are all related. Can you be tough when your team is pretty, or just ugly?



  • I would like to think that Remy has another gear, and he’s been pulling the Tyshawn Taylor senior year trick. I think there is another level to his game that could truly change our fortunes. Hopefully him and Bill can mindmeld and unlock his talents. Remy going off will really help Braun and Och, and open things up. As much as I want OCH and Braun to be alphas, the real alpha is Remy. I bet he’s the guy that’s going to take the last shot.

    I also think Big Dave will now be known as Good Dave the rest of the season. The benching helped, and we saw some really nice work the other night. He made some nice shots, and actually rebounded the ball for once. I know- he also had some sucky moments, but Good Dave has finally reappeared.

    JW is literally killing us on offense. He can’t possibly continue his level of suckness - it’s mathematically impossible. Well, maybe it is possible, but I’m still going with the “impossible” line to push my narrative: 2 for 23 from 3. He will get better, or Coach will make him stop shooting 3s. Either way, we suddenly get better. He is our best rebounder, and it’s not close.



  • @justanotherfan

    “The best players on this team are perimeter guys. That means interior guys are on the floor to play hard, grab rebounds and dunk lobs. That’s it. They get few or no post touches because that’s not the strength of this team. Last night, Big Dave got going because he was pursuing every rebound. That has to continue. He has to understand that most of his offense will come from putbacks, so he better get on the glass on both ends. Same for Mitch. Same for whoever else gets minutes at the 5.“

    Bingo



  • @Jethro Agree with you on Remy. I think he will take off as you say whenever he hears that “it’s his team,” which makes it difficult since he is the new guy. With some of the softness and uncertainty we’ve seen lately from Ochai, I think he might welcome that from Remy.



  • Man if Remy can become the talent the writers made the preseason POY in the league this team becomes one of the threats to win it all. Not sure it happens without him.



  • He’s not playing to his potential and there is several reasons for it. I think he has deferred to Och and CB but if this team is going far this season he’s going to have to assume more of the Alpha role on this team. I think the team would easily get behind him too if he does



  • @BeddieKU23 said in Bill Self "growth stunter":

    He’s not playing to his potential and there is several reasons for it. I think he has deferred to Och and CB but if this team is going far this season he’s going to have to assume more of the Alpha role on this team. I think the team would easily get behind him too if he does

    I think the same. While Och and CB have obviously been playing well, all-league all-American well, Remy is going to have to pick up his scoring and assume the leadership role that his personality almost dictates. I want to see Remy be a bit more selfish.



  • @Marco

    Yeah Remy has been too unselfish especially when he dribbles. He’s rarely drawn contact which he can do easily with how he plays. He wants to make the spectacular pass which I get but its not helping himself or the team. I’m happy with his effort to please his Coach but its time to tighten up and do what he’s good at. Especially with Ochai coming back to earth we need to see him step up



  • @BeddieKU23 said in Bill Self "growth stunter":

    @Marco

    Yeah Remy has been too unselfish especially when he dribbles. He’s rarely drawn contact which he can do easily with how he plays. He wants to make the spectacular pass which I get but its not helping himself or the team. I’m happy with his effort to please his Coach but its time to tighten up and do what he’s good at. Especially with Ochai coming back to earth we need to see him step up

    Yup, but the question is really will he be allowed to? Sure seems as though he’s got a leash on at the moment. I sure hope he can “unleash” himself and play more to his skill set.



  • Self tells him to shoot more



  • It took Malik Newman like 25 games before he finally “got it” so I’m personally not panicked. Outside of Josh Jackson I can’t remember a single guy who ever came in and just was the perfect Bill Self player in both mentality and talent.



  • @Kcmatt7 Newman also was after a year of sitting ie being with the team



  • Agree JJ was remarkable. BAseline dunks on UK heads 4evA



  • If we talk about kids who started off with a bang and don’t account for sitting BMac was pretty special



  • And Xavier and oubre I think were on lesser teams to JJ but were close



  • @approxinfinity said in Bill Self "growth stunter":

    If we talk about kids who started off with a bang and don’t account for sitting BMac was pretty special

    I firmly believe we win it all in 12 if Ben could’ve played



  • @approxinfinity said in Bill Self "growth stunter":

    And Xavier and oubre I think were on lesser teams to JJ but were close

    Xavier was on the team that lost to Northern Iowa in the tournament and was a team that should’ve won the title as well as they were #1 most of the season and never ranked lower than 3rd at any point. For my money, Xavier Henry is by far the most underrated OAD to come through KU.



  • @approxinfinity Bill messed with Oubre too much Imo. I thought he should have started day 1 and just let him figure out stuff on the court. But that’s never been Bill’s style (except with Grimes which is still weird tbh).



  • @FarmerJayhawk Yea I’d bet if you replaced 17 Teahan minutes with BMac and we have a different ball game.



  • BMac had an absurd year. Technically a FR but gotta think the off year helped.



  • @Kcmatt7 said in Bill Self "growth stunter":

    @approxinfinity Bill messed with Oubre too much Imo. I thought he should have started day 1 and just let him figure out stuff on the court. But that’s never been Bill’s style (except with Grimes which is still weird tbh).

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