Langford
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FarmerJayhawk said:
BeddieKU23 said:
I think at this point it would be a mistake to not give Marcus his due after this season. HS rankings aside Garrett has come more prepared then 95% of freshman Self has gotten in his time. Of course I’m basing this on what we’ve seen to date. Imagine how much better he’ll get in an off-season as well
Oh no doubt. I’ve been on the Garrett hype train for a long time. https://throughthephog.com/2016/08/02/pg-marcus-garrett-commits-kansas/
From what I’ve seen of Romeo, he’s the most gifted scorer in the class. Fits perfectly next to Dotson and Grimes. Garrett will be a glue guy/stopper.
No questioning Romeo’s skills. He’s got game.
Starting 3 freshman in the back-court. We know Self better then that. Fun problem to have though if he has that type of talent putting on a KU jersey
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BeddieKU23 said:
FarmerJayhawk said:
BeddieKU23 said:
I think at this point it would be a mistake to not give Marcus his due after this season. HS rankings aside Garrett has come more prepared then 95% of freshman Self has gotten in his time. Of course I’m basing this on what we’ve seen to date. Imagine how much better he’ll get in an off-season as well
Oh no doubt. I’ve been on the Garrett hype train for a long time. https://throughthephog.com/2016/08/02/pg-marcus-garrett-commits-kansas/
From what I’ve seen of Romeo, he’s the most gifted scorer in the class. Fits perfectly next to Dotson and Grimes. Garrett will be a glue guy/stopper.
No questioning Romeo’s skills. He’s got game.
Starting 3 freshman in the back-court. We know Self better then that. Fun problem to have though if he has that type of talent putting on a KU jersey
Right. Grimes or Langford may not start right away, but they will eventually. But I don’t think we end up with him because Vick will come back.
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@FarmerJayhawk That’s the one thing I’ve read & heard about Romeo , a very gifted Scorer. - The knock that I’ve heard that sometimes things come TO EASY for him - -has a tendency to slack off sometimes because of that – loses focus. I have a feeling Coach could get that corrected real quick. - ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
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Definitely. He does have a tendency to just glide through some games. But he absolutely has the tools to be a great wing defender. Very good athlete and long (6’10 wingspan). Self would be perfect for him. His outside shot can be more consistent too. Good thing KU’s staff is probably the best at developing shooters.
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Garland Picks Vanderbilt, does it change Langford’s choice?
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JayHawkFanToo said:
Garland Picks Vanderbilt, does it change Langford’s choice?
I think it could for sure. - -I had read & heard that Indiana was putting their eggs into the basket hoping to land Langford and Garland together. - -Somewhere I thought it had been said you know Langford wanting to play around/with other 5 star/ upper talent.
Well with Garland going to Vanderbilt, kind of shoots that theory right square in the ass. My 1st thought would be that with Garland going to Vanderbilt that would have to increase KU’S chances I would think. Unless Langford decides to go to Vanderbilt. - - Wasn’t Vanderbilt one of his final 3 schools? - - - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
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Read off another KU site, a poster says he lives in the town where Romeo plays his High School ball, and the talk around there from people is that Vanderbilt is now a heavy lean for him - -possibly because of Garland & Shittu - – ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
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I wouldn’t read too much into anything Langford until later. This one will go on for awhile.
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Got a CB pick for Langford to KU yesterday by some Louisville Insider guy. There is likely still a while before he decides but nice to see considering all the smoke lately on the CB for him has been for Vandy.
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RockkChalkk said:
Got a CB pick for Langford to KU yesterday by some Louisville Insider guy. There is likely still a while before he decides but nice to see considering all the smoke lately on the CB for him has been for Vandy.
Same day Jerry Meyer talks for sure about how Vanderbilt is trending for Romeo - -7-8 CB’s going to Vanderbilt.
Have some time before Spring -gives us a chance to level the field some - -might be pretty hard with his buddy Garland going to Vandy and now The other one going can’t spell the name so not going to try. - -With those two at Vandy you know they gonna push him hard. - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
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I think Langford may wait until very late as well to pick. There’s a lot of things to sort out. If Vick is back, even with KU playing 4 guards, he is in a very crowded backcourt. Granted, he’d be one of the most talented guys, but it would be a crowd.
That said, if Vick keeps playing like this, he’s gone anyway, and Langford would be a very nice addition. He’s a really pure shooter that should be able to play both ends. He would pair very nicely with Dotson and Grimes, two talented slashers.
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justanotherfan said:
He’s a really pure shooter that should be able to play both ends. He would pair very nicely with Dotson and Grimes, two talented slashers.
Agree! I think if Vick leaves and KU misses on Langford adding a good perimeter shooter becomes a big priority. Grimes is an okay shooter. We already know Garrett is rough around the edges there, and so is Dotson. Moore is the only plus shooter and he was 35% his first year at Cal. Maybe a grad transfer would be the best option compared to a HS recruit that can shoot but lacks a bunch in other areas. However a grad transfer might be a tough sell with Dotson, Grimes, Garrett, Moore and Cunliffe all on the roster. I’m not a huge fan of Cunliffe but when he is your 5th guard that’s preeeeetty decent.
Man now that I think about it we have been insanely spoiled with good three point shooters lately.
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I will take senior Vick over any OAD including Langford.
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@JayHawkFanToo I would too but he isn’t coming back if he keeps playing at his current level. However we also haven’t really played anyone but UK yet…
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@BShark Hmm … do we really need another shooter? Or are going back to the hi/lo next season? Dotson, Grimes, Garrett, Cunliffe, Moore. Of course, I’d take a shooter any time. But something tells me this team isn’t going to shoot 27 three pointers in a game once next season, let alone average 27 per game as they do this season.
I think we go conventional next season, perhaps the 18-19 threes per game at the most. If Vick stays, that might change a bit. But I don’t see a big time shooter in the bunch next season minus Vick.
You’re statement --“Man now that I think about it we have been insanely spoiled with good three point shooters lately” – is right on point.
@JayHawkFanToo How about this … I wouldn’t trade Vick for any player we could have next season. Vick could be conference POY and an all american.
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I agree the philosophy will change back a bit due to roster construction but I also still think ideally you add another shooter. Might not be possible though, we’re going to be pretty loaded.
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Vick is #19 in the most recent NBADRAFT.net Mock draft.
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I would put very little stock into NBAdraft.net but Vick is certainly playing at a level that could see him land somewhere in the first round if he kept it up
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@BeddieKU23 Well since Draftexpress was basically bought by ESPN and turned into an Insider, that’s what we get.
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Kcmatt7 said:
@BeddieKU23 Well since Draftexpress was basically bought by ESPN and turned into an Insider, that’s what we get.
Boooo ESPN.
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Draftexpress Jayhawks:
Devonte’ 44
Svi 54
Vick 61
Newman 92
No Preston or Azubuike
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Kcmatt7 said:
@BeddieKU23 Well since Draftexpress was basically bought by ESPN and turned into an Insider, that’s what we get.
Yup Givony works for ESPN these days.
If Vick goes 19 this year, boy has he improved
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Way to early to tell how it will turn out. 5 Duke players in the first round including 4 in the top 16 and 3 lottery pick, UK 2 in first round and only 1 lottery pick…this is a switch and probably does not help the squid with his narrative.
Vick is first round but Svi, Devonte and Billy are second round but could play themselves into the first round, same with Malik and Doke that are not listed.
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Of course its still way early. I was simply pointing out I don’t put much stock into the site. If Vick is good enough by seasons end to end up in the first round that’s great for everyone involved.
In my opinion ESPN probably has him ranked appropriately at the moment but he has the chance to move up the most of any hawk. If he averages 16 a game on 50% shooting from 3 he’s going to get a ton of press going forward. He’s improved a good deal from last season and I’m anxious to see if he continues to shoot the ball, rebound and pass the ball at the level he’s currently at.
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@JayHawkFanToo Didn’t say it was done. I just am pointing it out on the Langford thread because it is relevant information to the discussion.
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I know, we are on the same page. At this point several players like Doke are flying well under the radar and just beginning to get noticed and others still living off their HS ranking. The final list will be quite different.
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JayHawkFanToo said:
I know, we are on the same page. At this point several players like Doke are flying well under the radar and just beginning to get noticed and others still living off their HS ranking. The final list will be quite different.
Definitely.
Doke is a case where it might take him having a dominant Big-12 or NCAA tournament to move the needle with him.
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Dok’s got no stroke. That’s what’s holding him back. He’d be a top 5 pick if he could knock down a mid-range jumper, top 2 if he could hit a three.
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dylans said:
Dok’s got no stroke. That’s what’s holding him back. He’d be a top 5 pick if he could knock down a mid-range jumper, top 2 if he could hit a three.
Ding ding. Pretty much
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Doke will go in the lottery if goes just based off of size alone. Bam for UK was very similar last year and no made it.
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At this point Doke is not a lotto pick considering that he is not even listed in most mock drafts. Other than maybe a Euro player that jumped into the draft late, I cannot think of a player that went from unlisted, at this stage, to lottery pick. He will need a big season to get into the draft and a huge one to be a first round pick. I see Vick and Graham and even Svi and of course Preston with a better chance than Doke…but I could be wrong.
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@JayHawkFanToo Agree - not close to a lottery pick at this point. Doke still has a lot to work on at this point. Who could he guard in the NBA? Who could he get his own shot against? There are relatively few traditional 5s in the league now, and all are much more skilled. Doke is big and can take up a lot of room, but he isn’t quick, doesn’t have much elevation, can’t pass in or out of the paint, and is a lousy FT shooter. His game has to evolve quite a bit if he wants to sniff the lottery…
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I could be wrong but Diallo got picked, not in the lottery but early second round. Just looking at some mock drafts. Vick is top 20pick on 2 with Svi and DTG going mid second round. Svi is late first round on a few. You would assume Self expects Vick to leave with having Garett already to go with transfer Charlie Moore and Dotson, Grimes. That and recruiting Langford.
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Unfortunately Doke plays a position/style that is quickly disappearing in the NBA and his athleticism is limited. Diallo has superior athleticism and plays a position in demand, particularly if you can shoot or develop a shot from the outside.
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Vick could go in the first round because he fits a very clear role in today’s NBA.
Point out a team that doesn’t need an extra wing that can handle the ball, shoot the three, guard multiple positions and be a secondary rebounder in smaller lineups? With the way the NBA is currently working, literally every team needs a guy like that. Vick won’t necessarily be a star, but every playoff team needs a guy with his skillset, both as a starter and also coming off the bench. Basically, every team needs two or three LaGerald Vick type players.
Once the lottery picks are off the board, teams will covet wings that are athletic, can shoot, and can guard multiple spots. That’s Vick.
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Sounds about right.
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@justanotherfan pretty good points. - -ROC CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
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Another point I forgot to mention is that Vick is already used to being a reserve and being a role player. He’s not a guy that has to convert from being a star player that gets tons of shots every night to a role player that may not get any shots for a whole quarter at a time in the NBA. Vick hasn’t been the focus of the KU offense since he arrived in Lawrence. Even this year, he’s getting more shots, but he’s not the primary or even really the secondary option.
That’s an adjustment that lots of players struggle with. There are very few college players that will go on to be first or second options in the NBA - maybe half a dozen in a given year if you’re lucky. Vick won’t have to do that. He was sixth man last year. He’s roughly the third or fourth option this season. That’s the type of role he will have in the NBA, and he’s already shown that he can excel in that role.
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Agree on all points.
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NBA talk is always funny to me because it 99% wrong. Take a look at ANY draft and look at the amount of players who are out of the league in 3 years. There is NOBODY on our roster that will play in the NBA for longer than 3 years. Billy Preston is actually the only one that has a legit chance of having a decent career, but I haven’t seen enough.
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@dylans Top 5 pick? It isnt just a stroke he is missing. He has ZERO explosiveness. He is a horrible rebounder for his size because of it. He also almost always has to gather before going up with the ball. In college he gets away with it, in the NBA he will get his shot blocked every time.
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@BigBad And Durant can’t bench press the bar. I still say if Dok could stroke it he’d be a top 5 pick. You can’t teach 7’1”. But as it stands he’s not very skilled, doesn’t rebound well for his size, and has no shot. He would be as successful as Cliff Alexander in the NBA at this point.
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@dylans A stroke doesnt fix his lack of athleticism. Durrant may be weak but he is explosive enough for his size and position. A durrant stroke doesnt fall out of trees.
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How athletic does he need to be? He’s 7’1” if he could stroke it flat footed most people couldn’t bother his shot. He’s athletic enough to block shots. He need to gain basketball IQ Dok’s problem beyond having absolutely the ugliest shot in basketball is his lack of understanding of how to position himself. How to seal off his man to get easy baskets, how to hedge on defense. Things that will hopefully come with experience. Lando did those things well, but he was 6’9” and unathletic if he was over 7ft. he’d likely be getting paid to play basketball a bit more than he currently is.
Ifs and buts. He’s not going to develop a shot so it’s a moot point.
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@dylans He has shown a nice little hook at times. Needs to learn some arc on both that and his FTs, but practice will improve those.
As to verticality, his body type may not allow much; Hudy will figure out what he can do. Remember, he was 40 lbs heavier on his arrival, and every time he goes up he is trying to not only leg press 260 or more–he is trying to leg toss that weight a foot or more into the air after never having had to do it as a younger player.
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I would tend to disagree regarding guys not sticking in the NBA.
Devonte will probably play a few years in the NBA as backup PG at the very least. He’s probably slotted as a starter on a poor team, but a backup on a very good team. His shooting and defensive ability make him a likely fit even though he probably won’t be a high draft pick.
I’ve already outlined why I think Vick could have the best career of anyone on the current roster, so I won’t belabor that here.
Svi will get a very long look. How he adapts to NBA athleticism determines if he stays in the league a dozen years or a dozen games.
Doke will also get a look. If he can become an elite PnR roll man, he could become a DeAndre Jordan type player. Thing is, he may be back in Lawrence next year to work on that.
Newman is the wild card. If he can move to the point, he could have a career. As a 2, he’s destined to head overseas.
Preston is a bit of an unknown. Physically, he can play in the NBA. But the direction the NBA is heading, he really needs to improve on the perimeter both offensively and especially defensively so he can match up with wings and Durant/Paul George type players. If he can do that, he has a decade in the league. If not, he will wash out.
I would say out of all of these guys, Vick plays 12 years, Devonte plays 9, Preston plays 7, Doke plays 4, Svi and Newman go overseas.
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@mayjay I’m amazed with the transformation of Dok’s body. Hudy is amazing!
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dylans said:
How athletic does he need to be? He’s 7’1” if he could stroke it flat footed most people couldn’t bother his shot. He’s athletic enough to block shots.
We have played NOBODY outside of UK as far as real talent. Doke is averaging 1.4 blocks. So obviously he isnt athletic enough to block shots. Lightfoot is leading the team in blocks.
What a lot of you guys do not seem to grasp is that Bill Self MAXIMIZES his roster every year. It’s why we get ranked so high with marginal talent.
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justanotherfan said:
I would say out of all of these guys, Vick plays 12 years, Devonte plays 9, Preston plays 7, Doke plays 4, Svi and Newman go overseas.
Vick has zero natural ball skills and a so so shot. He is a slasher period. To excel at that role in NBA to play 12 years he’d need to be around 6’7.
Devonte struggles against length(Oregon) and when his wide open or chucks from outside are not falling he cant create in the half court for himself. If he had ability to play 9 years in the NBA he would already be gone.
Svi is not fast enough and has really short arms. Though his age may get him some looks.
I like these guys as college players, I just don’t see their skills translating to NBA.
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@BigBad To your point the times that Self has had multiple guys that hung around the league he made the title game…
2008: Rio, Arthur, Cole and Rush still in the league. 2012: Taylor had a couple years, now around Europe. TRob was around until last year. Withey still in the league.
I certainly agree about Graham, Svi and Doke. Graham is a great college guard but his pro ball will be in Europe.
I disagree about Vick though. I think he can hang around.
I’m really hopeful for next season. Grimes I feel is an NBA talent. I’m on the fence about Dotson he needs to develop his shot and he certainly came to the right place for that. Silvio has the tools and Dedric is incredibly skilled.
