Short Handed Hawks vs Cincy Game Thread
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@kuballin10 said in Short Handed Hawks vs Cincy Game Thread:
@Texas-Hawk-10 Morris wouldn’t makeup for this mess
Please don’t insult Mccullar by saying juan is on his level
Everyone watched the game and our best player was clearly evident……and it sure as hell wasn’t Juan but yeah gotta replace the4
Can you explain in depth your thoughts on Harris again? I don’t think you’ve explained it well enought the first 1,000,002 times this season.
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Well I was spared watching the 1st half. Recorded game, accidentally saw the halftime score. Fast forwarded, got a little excited, but pfffffffttttt!! Oh well. Not a surprising result to be honest. I hope the chat wasn’t too harsh. I hope the team knows some good doctors to get Hunt and Kev healthy by next Thursday/Friday! That’s our only hope for winning a few more games.
The conference streak ended a few years back and it was a bit tough to take. But when the day comes that the season ends this week, then the realities of what almost every program goes through will really hit hard.
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10 on vacation:
“Hey! How’d it go?” “Good.” “Cool! Do anything fun?” “Don’t want to talk about it.” “Ok… anything not what you expected?” 30 minute tirade about how a waiter (named Juan) brought him a Coors instead of a Bud
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@Texas-Hawk-10 It is because our multi million dollar coach thinks his d2 athlete pg is the greatest gift to KU pg’s. It is such a befuddling scout that I can’t shut up about it
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@kuballin10 said in Short Handed Hawks vs Cincy Game Thread:
@Texas-Hawk-10 It is because our multi million dollar coach thinks his d2 athlete pg is the greatest gift to KU pg’s. It is such a befuddling scout that I can’t shut up about it
Can you be a little bit more detailed about Harris please? This 1,000,003 explanation still isn’t clear enough for me.
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BREAKING: Juan did 9/11
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@Texas-Hawk-10 tbf multi syllable words give him trouble
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@FarmerJayhawk said in Short Handed Hawks vs Cincy Game Thread:
BREAKING: Juan did 9/11
I call BS on that, he only shot Kennedy.
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@Texas-Hawk-10 said in Short Handed Hawks vs Cincy Game Thread:
@FarmerJayhawk said in Short Handed Hawks vs Cincy Game Thread:
BREAKING: Juan did 9/11
I call BS on that, he only shot Kennedy.
Wait that can’t be right he can’t shoot
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“Juan needs players around him and tonight we didn’t have that” - Self just now in postgame. Goes on to list shooting stats of everyone but Juan.
From the other board and 100% true…Juan can’t score “when he wants too” glad @BShark finally can’t argue anymore on this
Bill is a genius but on this player opinion he is 100% wrong and an idiot
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I just rewatched post game. Coach said that we had 4 starters shoot 8-39. That’s it. Figure it out? Somebody is lying! It’s on espn+, feel free to watch it. Let me know if you can’t figure it out. I hate lying! Can’t trust them ever again. If you do it to belittle someone, it’s even worse.
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@Crimsonorblue22 yep, starters sans KJ were 8-39
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The positive: Elmarko with potentially the best play of his college career.
The negative: Everything else.
The why award: everything Juan did. Wow.
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@kuballin10 said in Short Handed Hawks vs Cincy Game Thread:
@Texas-Hawk-10 It is because our multi million dollar coach thinks his d2 athlete pg is the greatest gift to KU pg’s. It is such a befuddling scout that I can’t shut up about it
When Coach brought up Magic Johnson to save him from criticism a few months ago…I knew he was too far gone to save.
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Hope this offseason all positions are recruited and no position is safe.
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@rockchalkjayhawk I like Juan, he’s a good kid but he is a long shot from best PG not only in the nation but this conference. He was honorable mention for a reason. Not a stat that proves he’s great sorry but he limits us.
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I love everything Juan has done for KU but 5 years is too much. Imagine Tyshawn Taylor getting a 5th year. It would be more of the same. But he is one of Self’s favorites so he’s not going anywhere.
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@Crimsonorblue22 Comment I referenced was with Hanni postgame which isn’t the media and espn+….I wasn’t lying
@TYOHawk - I just don’t get it. His protection of said player over and over when he’s been atrocious in his senior year and not “scored when he wants to”….is just proving what recruits see that Bill plays favorites.
The 1 is locked in for next year and so is the 4….there will be a reason we miss on big time recruits at those positions yet again……
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@RockkChalkk said in Short Handed Hawks vs Cincy Game Thread:
Hope this offseason all positions are recruited and no position is safe.
I’m laughing because you and I know that won’t happen……you guys have watched his career and Self’s protection of him for half a decade and you think just magically Self is gonna recruit a pg to start over Juan….hecckkkkk no.
It will be a “you can start at the 2 next to Juan”…just ask LJ Cryer
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@BigBad Tyshawn was really good his Sr. year. I’d take another year of that.
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Tough topic, It’s either a business first and only where you discard them like the NBA or still hold onto the fabric of College Sports where your coach cares about you as a person and wants to set you up for success. We know that Self is still the coach that cares.
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@BeddieKU23 I think that Self for sure cares and no personal attack to Juan but he’s gone as far as he can as a player. Literally pull up his stats. They are identical from sophomore year to this year in most categories some he’s actually regressed in. He obviously cares a great deal about KJ as well but having those two in guaranteed starting spot is as mentioned above absolutely killer in recruiting.
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@kuballin10 said in Short Handed Hawks vs Cincy Game Thread:
@Crimsonorblue22 Comment I referenced was with Hanni postgame which isn’t the media and espn+….I wasn’t lying
@TYOHawk - I just don’t get it. His protection of said player over and over when he’s been atrocious in his senior year and not “scored when he wants to”….is just proving what recruits see that Bill plays favorites.
The 1 is locked in for next year and so is the 4….there will be a reason we miss on big time recruits at those positions yet again……
Coach told us the guys around Juan have to be better. Which is 100 percent true. But if you’re only serviceable when you play next to pro wings and all conference bigs…then how good are you truly?
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@kjayhawks Juan is literally propped up by team accomplishments and bill’s absolute blindness to his actual abilities is what has brought the team to this low level.
KJ actually can contribute he showed that last night. He can be a Royce white point forward type when given the leash. Whether 6th man off the bench or what he has a clear role with our squad.
I said it earlier and was called negative ect and it is literally playing out exactly as expected. Juan is not a good player at the D1 level. He would be a great backup but the fact our coach thinks he’s the best pg in America is comically bad.
This all hurts recruiting when it comes to guards and guards are what win titles. You need more good guards…u can get away with only having 1 legit big.
Bill has lost it
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@TYOHawk said in Short Handed Hawks vs Cincy Game Thread:
@kuballin10 said in Short Handed Hawks vs Cincy Game Thread:
@Crimsonorblue22 Comment I referenced was with Hanni postgame which isn’t the media and espn+….I wasn’t lying
@TYOHawk - I just don’t get it. His protection of said player over and over when he’s been atrocious in his senior year and not “scored when he wants to”….is just proving what recruits see that Bill plays favorites.
The 1 is locked in for next year and so is the 4….there will be a reason we miss on big time recruits at those positions yet again……
Coach told us the guys around Juan have to be better. Which is 100 percent true. But if you’re only serviceable when you play next to pro wings and all conference bigs…then how good are you truly?
The constant defending and pushing the blame on other players just shows Bills true colors. It is literally never Juan’s fault in Bills mind.
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@kuballin10 u were called negative because you are negative. Juan would be fine if he had the right crew around him. You just can’t have this many guys who aren’t shooters. want Juan to be one of them fine.
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@kuballin10 why arent you dogging Elmarko? Kid can’t shoot the 3 ball, or dogging Nick? Clearly underwhelming. Or bitch about Self recruiting a rapist that has made exactly zero threes for KU. Juan is better than all those guys. You’re barking up the wrong tree.
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@approxinfinity said in Short Handed Hawks vs Cincy Game Thread:
@kuballin10 why arent you dogging Elmarko? Kid can’t shoot the 3 ball, or dogging Nick? Clearly underwhelming. Or bitch about Self recruiting a rapist that has made exactly zero threes for KU. Juan is better than all those guys. You’re barking up the wrong tree.
Greta questions let’s dive in.
Elmarko has played organized ball for what 3-4 years he wasn’t to be relied on as some come in and dominate Wiggins type.
Nick - staff whiffed and he is bad.
Morris - On self
Two of the three suck because guards know the pg spot is untouchable it’s the reason we can’t get anyone worth their salt.
The reason I dog Juan is because it’s his team he’s the senior he knows the system he’s supposed to step up and score 12 ppg and LEAD the team.
It’s the expectation for every KU pg who’s jr or sr here!!! Why does Bill and you and the entire fan base excuse it or not replace him with a better pg???
I couldn’t fathom Dotson not scoring and everyone was cool with it and instead blaming our bench for not picking up a starters production.
What about Mason or Graham did we blame the bench as to why Mason or Graham didn’t lead successful teams? No, cause they took the reins and scored.
This whole crux of the bench needs to step up is asinine. The top 5 guys all have to be a threat to score and look to score.
We got a Sr pg who it’s his time and he can’t cut it and we got an entire year with him doing this crap all over again
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Aaron Miles couldnt lead the team through scoring when we lost to Bucknell. Russ Rob wouldnt have done it by himself. We knew Dajuan wasnt a score first guard. Everything around Dajuan is a dumpster fire. Come on man.
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I just dont understand recruiting Elmarko. Again, with 20-20 hindsight. Not a scorer. Should have recruited 3 capable scorers at guard and got none.
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@kuballin10 said in Short Handed Hawks vs Cincy Game Thread:
@TYOHawk said in Short Handed Hawks vs Cincy Game Thread:
@kuballin10 said in Short Handed Hawks vs Cincy Game Thread:
@Crimsonorblue22 Comment I referenced was with Hanni postgame which isn’t the media and espn+….I wasn’t lying
@TYOHawk - I just don’t get it. His protection of said player over and over when he’s been atrocious in his senior year and not “scored when he wants to”….is just proving what recruits see that Bill plays favorites.
The 1 is locked in for next year and so is the 4….there will be a reason we miss on big time recruits at those positions yet again……
Coach told us the guys around Juan have to be better. Which is 100 percent true. But if you’re only serviceable when you play next to pro wings and all conference bigs…then how good are you truly?
The constant defending and pushing the blame on other players just shows Bills true colors. It is literally never Juan’s fault in Bills mind.
I thought I would never see a player beat out Jamari or Frank as Self’s favorite. But I truly believe Dajuan has surpassed them.
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@approxinfinity for sure, Self should take some heat for this roster. I said he seat should be warm after this on another thread and got in trouble lol. Not saying you fire the guy but he needs to take accountability for this team in some light. Talking heads will do it if we get bounced early next week.
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Perhaps that’s true about Juan being maxed out as a player here. But he does have 1 offseason left to work on his game and we can all just hope that Self not only brings in enough quality depth where Juan can actually get a rest in games but the competition it will bring by having others in the room will help to keep Juan sharp and continuing to grow. I mean there has to be a % of Juan’s struggles this year being attributed to zero competition at the PG position and no opportunity for a rest. No iron sharpening iron here. Elmarko cannot play the position and is frankly overmatched at this level currently. Same happened the previous year with Pettiford and Yesufu.
I would agree I don’t think Juan is going to become the athletic & offensive player we want. It is what it is.
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Let’s remember that Coach was either just getting out of or was still in the hospital this time last year. That health issue, coupled with the SELF imposed discontinuing recruitment visits and the first 4 games of the season, helped create the roster we were left with. He is, in my opinion, a part of the reason for the season that was just played out. We went from #1 in preseason to losing the most conference games in decades. Injuries have always plagued us (Embid, Doke, even Dave McC and on and on) but there were reliable shooters/defenders always on the bench. We just plain and simple didn’t have a one that we deep down knew could pull his weight.
No offense = no points.
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@kuballin10 So why don’t you start your own topic - “Bill is Juan blind dude with respect to the PG” and voice your displeasure all you want and you can vent and we can just ignore your opinion. People that are interested could read what you have to say. That would save a lot of irritation for all of us unless you like being irritating. You have been heard! We know your stance! You have given us Pete (original opinion) and repeat ad nauseum! It would be good to hear other opinions that you have other than dogging Juan. Just saying. Have a great day! (Seriously).
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I totally get the frustrations with Juan and its nothing to do with how good he is as a person. I think we all agree on that. Its just really tough to watch him out there still playing like a freshmen when he is a senior with so much experience.
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@patoh3 i agree with this request that you @kuballin10 make your own thread but also i am fully prepared to talk this out there. I think it warrants its own thread on the merits (if not for toxicity containment)
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I think Aaron Miles, Russ Rob and Marcus Garrett are all the right comps here. As much as I love Frank he didnt get to a FF. All three of these guys and Dajuan did.
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@BeddieKU23 definitely valid points about Juan and the situation but not very many good PGs are gonna want come in and play second fiddle to him. Best bet to me is to get a guy from the portal that is proven to be decent just needs to improve his game while having 2 or 3 years left to play.
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@approxinfinity said in Short Handed Hawks vs Cincy Game Thread:
I think Aaron Miles, Russ Rob and Marcus Garrett are all the right comps here. As much as I love Frank he didnt get to a FF. All three of these guys and Dajuan did.
All 3 are better than Juan imo and it’s not really close either.
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@kjayhawks said in Short Handed Hawks vs Cincy Game Thread:
@BeddieKU23 definitely valid points about Juan and the situation but not very many good PGs are gonna want come in and play second fiddle to him. Best bet to me is to get a guy from the portal that is proven to be decent just needs to improve his game while having 2 or 3 years left to play.
True best case scenario is Philon becomes a star immediately. Very unlikely though
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@approxinfinity I don’t think making a FF is a must for a great PG. I think at least one good run is true but I think Frank gets a FF is one of our best players in Doke wasn’t injured. Who they play with is a great measuring stick to me. Looking at Juan, the other guys on the floor with him on that title team. Ochai- NBA, Braun- NBA, J-Wil - NBA and Big David is carving out a solid career over seas. You look at RusRobs best team in 08 it also is filled with NBA talent. I think we all agree having talent around you not only makes you better but is able to mask some of your weaknesses.
Edit: few other PGs had a back ups like Sherron Collins (RusRob) and Remy Martin (Juan). It’s worth noting that Sherron played 34 minutes to RusRobs 20 in the NC and Remy Played 21 to Juan’s 27 but played almost all of the second half and more than Juan in other tournament games.
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@TYOHawk The list of PGs I think Juan is better than since Self has been here. Tharpe and Hawkins, that’s the list. Yes he has a NC but as I said above he didn’t play a ton the last 15 minutes and had a bone head turnover and when he did. Also the minutes logged is a factor to me.
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Stat I just came across on X, anyone wanna guess the last time Kansas lost back to back games by 20 plus points? 1919 under coach Hamilton against Fizzou in back to back games.
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Well that is depressing.
My 2 cents: Russ Rob and Sheron are a good comparison. As a tandem, Russ was the floor general but Sherron found more and more minutes as the season progressed for his contrasting abilities, including scoring.
In 21-22, Juan worked out well with Remy similarly. i recall the team looking very sketchy during many games that season when Remy wasn’t available and Juan had to play the majority of minutes.
There were three ways Remy made Juan better: 1) Remy was a scoring threat — especially 3s — so he took significant scoring burden off Juan, 2) Remy sometimes replaced Juan and that allowed Juan to be more fresh, and 3) Remy was stylistically a completely different kind of PG, which was complimentary but also - don’t underestimate this - hard for teams to adjust back and forth.
I believe Self was trying to get a similar pair this year with Juan and Arterio. It never had a chance to play out but I can imagine that a second guard like Arterio would have been a game changer because he’s so different/complimentary to Juan. Juan has some solid qualities. He clearly has Self’s confidence in running the offense and is a good passer. He can be a solid second tier scorer.
This year - and especially in these recent games where we’ve been without a tier 1 scorer - we needed him to be something he is not.
I think it’s wrong to beat him to a pulp for this. I even give Self some slack because I think he knows Juan’s limitations. You can’t win championships if you aren’t intimately aware of each player’s strengths (and weaknesses) and set them up for success.
Shit happens. Sometimes multiple shit happens. That’s where we are right now. But that’s not where we have to be next year. And let’s not sound like whiny, overreacting Kentucky fans while we process our disappointing season.
It’s a fricking miracle we haven’t had a similarly down year in the last 25 years.
Appropriately, Self and the staff will do some reflection and look for ways to improve. The game is evolving. I can see changes to the officiating and I also see teams scouting us much more effectively. Maybe we are too predictable. I leave it to the basketball minds to figure it out.
Anyway, go back and look at Juan in 21-22. The 23-24 version is largely the same. Self values that consistency and predictability in the PG. Remy drove him crazy. Sherron had to grow into that role. Devonte did too (recall it was Mason.and Graham initially)
It is what it is. And what it usually is, is 25 wins and a conference championship. Not this year, but… usually.
We will still be in the tournament (I would not be surprised if the committee hits us with a 6-seed). We still have the same opportunity that every other team in the tourney has.
We could capture lightning in a bottle and win 6 straight.
Or, we could lose in the first round. That would suck but I doubt any of us would be shocked.
Either way, the sun will come up tomorrow
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@bskeet I agree completely and would add that Harris’s presence on the team allowed Self to slow walk Remy and in essence force him to play better D before getting significant PT. And dollars to donuts Harris helped Remy with how to do that. Harris is a solid team player. But, as you point out, he has limitations and needs to be paired with complementary players to be at his best. And this year, sadly, he wasn’t.
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@kjayhawks said in Short Handed Hawks vs Cincy Game Thread:
Stat I just came across on X, anyone wanna guess the last time Kansas lost back to back games by 20 plus points? 1919 under coach Hamilton against Fizzou in back to back games.
Oh, we were a mess back then too. “Send Hamilton to the Germans, maybe we’ll finish them off” was a common comment on the Bucket.
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@wissox the immortal Leonard Hamilton.
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I think we go after the top end guards to find a starter and then hopefully pick up a mid-major guy who’s proven himself or a young P5 Player on the rise.
If we don’t have at least 3 PG options going into next season I don’t understand what we are doing. All year it’s been a glaring issue. Juan shouldn’t be playing 36 minutes a game even if he was your star scorer. It’s nuts.
Philon coming in is going to be good but tough to know how good he can be in year 1 until we start hearing what’s going on in summer/fall
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As I look at the highly rated teams, most have PG’s that score and have a number of assists. Would really like to have that next year…
