Ochai
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I wonder if Jossell had to leave to free up a definite schollie for an Ochai replacement as we wait to see if Ochai leaves.
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@approxinfinity I think it also makes sense given how aggressive they have been in recruiting, saying there are multiple starting guard spots available.
I believe this kinda works out for everyone. He more or less maxed out what he can be at this level. We need to get back to playing multiple ball handlers that can create.
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@BShark AI think he demonstrated a taste what he could be in that WV game (?) take over where he scored like 12 points in a row. He has been a pretty good defender and his stats will be good at the combine. His shooting form is pretty. His handles are suspect. Might not matter as much as a prospect 3 and D guy with upside.
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@approxinfinity 38% in college doesn’t cut it as a 3&D guy at the NBA level either though. This isn’t a Wayne Selden situation when Selden left with his stock at its peak. Ochai still has enough left to work on that he can genuinely boost his stock into being a draftable player next season.
If I’m an NBA GM, I wouldn’t even use a second round pick on Ochai at this point because he only brings two above average skills to his position and that’s defense and athleticism. There’s plenty of players who will be in the draft with those skills and more that make Ochai a Summer League pick up and probably playing in G-League somewhere and not even on a two-way contract.
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Totally expected. I think Och would like to move on and may be leaning that way. If Bill can get another play making guard to allow him to do what he does best: shoot threes and catch lobs, that may entice him to come back. We shall see.
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I don’t get it. Not an economic hardship case. Come back, be the BMOC with Dave, play with a chip on your shoulder after this years down year, groom the youngsters. He leaves now, I guarantee you a year from now I’ll be googling his name wondering where he ended up.
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Look, it’s always wise to gather more information. From that point of view, it’s great for him to go through this process and use it as an information gathering process. Unless he finds that he’s a lock in the first round, I sure hope he doesn’t leave.
I don’t believe he maxed out here at all. He can dramatically improve his position in the draft with another year.
Between last year (Covid) and this year (flawed team), he hasn’t had the stage that others get with a deep run in the tournament, but he has been a big contributor and has grown every year. His athleticism is NBA level and his shot is getting more consistent. He’s poised to do something great next year and I hope it’s with us.
Worst case scenario, he goes through the draft process, pulls out and enters the transfer portal. That would be a nightmare. He should be a Jayhawk until he’s a pro.
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Och can definitely improve his consistency and defense yet. He’s a very good on ball defender but not as good in the team context.
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@KirkIsMyHinrich Does not sound like the words of a guy who is coming back. Sad…he’s not ready.
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@wissox 100% correct.
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If Och stays in the draft Self needs himself a ready made shooter. Yesufu added that to the backcourt but he needs another dude. Not sure Umude is best fit but he scores, a lot. I hope TyTy is still in play, he might only be 6’3 but has a 6’9 wingspan so he can be that 3rd guard on the court. The KU system is meant for a wing to have ball handling skills/shooting which Washington has in spades. Just a thought
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@BeddieKU23 said in Ochai:
If Och stays in the draft Self needs himself a ready made shooter. Yesufu added that to the backcourt but he needs another dude. Not sure Umude is best fit but he scores, a lot. I hope TyTy is still in play, he might only be 6’3 but has a 6’9 wingspan so he can be that 3rd guard on the court. The KU system is meant for a wing to have ball handling skills/shotting which Washington has in spades. Just a thought
Tyty is still in play
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@bskeet ochai is what he is. he hasn’t improved that much in 3 years. another few months is not going to change him. he will be in the same position next year as he is this year. if he wants another year of college fine, but he’s not going to improve his status much. He hasn’t the last 3 years. the word is if he would have left after year 1 he would have been picked higher than he ever will after hanging around for so long. it looks like it was probably a mistake by draft measures to not leave after year 1
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@Fightsongwriter what’s the percentage of players who dont hire an agent who come back to school? i dont know but it seems like its fairly high. If the player has doubts you can be sure the NBA has doubts. He isnt going to hear what he wants to hear next year either.
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@bennie but, we didn’t have an off season this past yr.
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Och is doing the right thing… testing the waters. He will learn where his game needs to improve. He is nowhere near ready for the NBA. I think this move will help him and KU next year because he will focus on improving his weak areas.
He’s going to have to be a lot more aggressive in his play and put up bigger numbers… especially in crunch games.
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Just wondering if Och is on course to graduate next spring? Seems like a guy that would value that degree. May play large in his decision
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@Oldmanhawk As Gooden showed you can come back and get the degree whenever. There is a limited clock on earnings with a physical sport.
I would love for him to be back, but believe he will be gone.
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@BShark Gooden, of course, knew he would be drafted, was drafted 4th, played 14 years in the NBA, and earned almost $68 million.
Ochai may not be coveted so much by the people writing checks.
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@mayjay Yeah my point is just that he came back and got his degree. Paying for it down the line can ultimately be smarter financially, because these are prime earning years.
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@BShark Of course it can, but when you are as likely to get a guaranteed contract as Gooden was when he elected, there is virtually no risk. Undrafted players stuck in the G League without 2 way contracts may be earning less money than might be necessary to buy a college education if they flame out in 1 or 2 years. Might make more money overseas, but that has its own risks and for many players not named Keith Langford can be miserable and not too lucrative.
A guy who was doing the termite inspection of our house got lured to go pro after 2 years because he hired an agent who promised he would be drafted. Nope. Instead, he wandered among teams in South America, never earned more than $18,000, got injured and was cut while having to pay his own way home. Had no means available to go back to school.
Gooden is a best case scenario, the termite guy obviously among the worst. Obviously Ochai is further along and probably has more resources available.
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Pretty sure ochai’s parents value an education!
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@Crimsonorblue22 said in Ochai:
Pretty sure ochai’s parents value an education!
Players can always come back and get there education
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@Oldmanhawk As Gooden showed you can come back and get the degree whenever. There is a limited clock on earnings with a physical sport.
I would love for him to be back, but believe he will be gone.
Ditto. But he’s gone. I wish him well.
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My advice to Och, talk to Devonte.
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From what I understand, Ochai’s parents are very big on education. It does not seem like a family where in there is pressure for the son to earn money so the family can get out of debt or move out of near poverty.
I honestly cannot see him jumping now
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@Bosthawk it’s been mentioned that he can always go back and get his degree later which is true. That’s easy to say but often difficult to do. Was just thinking if he is on the fence to stay or leave the lure of a degree could sway him. Personally I think he’s gone and if so I wish him well
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My advice to Och, talk to Devonte.
There is a world where Devonte doesn’t stay. Of course it involves getting Trae Young. I much prefer what actually happened lol.
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I will have to say really Big difference between Ochai & Jalen coming back or not. - -Would have to say the chances are like 2/1 that Ochai would not come back before Jalen. -Ochai just more athletic , neither one handles worth a crap but just think The % would be more in favor of Ochai not returning rather then Jalen
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@Bosthawk nah me neither. i think this is simply a case once again of players wanting some spotlight and attention that comes with the announcement. then they find out they would be the 65th pick and they come back. this is now almost an annual announcement for almost any P5 starter. it doesn’t even mean he doesn’t already know he’s coming back
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@drgnslayr said in Ochai:
Och is doing the right thing… testing the waters. He will learn where his game needs to improve. He is nowhere near ready for the NBA. I think this move will help him and KU next year because he will focus on improving his weak areas.
He’s going to have to be a lot more aggressive in his play and put up bigger numbers… especially in crunch games.
no he’s not. he’s been focusing on improving his weak areas for 3 years. his numbers were just fine this year and probably wont improve much. Self plays a team offense that will spread the scoring around and still focus on Mccormick. I believe Och will always be a very solid player but always be a secondary scorer on any team. i think his draft status next year will look very similar to his status this year. He probably should have left after his freshman season when he was in most mock drafts based on his future projections
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@BShark Yeah
I’ll take 4 years of Devontes over 1 year of Traes every time.
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Call me crazy, but I’m still hoping for both to return after learning what they need to know for next year. A good run in the tourney is more likely to boost both of their stock than their performance in the combine.
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There is a world where Devonte doesn’t stay. Of course it involves getting Trae Young. I much prefer what actually happened lol.
Somehow I think Devonte is pleased with how things all shook out as well.
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I’ve been wrong before… but I’m not buying the projected 2nd round draft pick.
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@drgnslayr said in Ochai:
Och is doing the right thing… testing the waters. He will learn where his game needs to improve. He is nowhere near ready for the NBA. I think this move will help him and KU next year because he will focus on improving his weak areas.
He’s going to have to be a lot more aggressive in his play and put up bigger numbers… especially in crunch games.
no he’s not. he’s been focusing on improving his weak areas for 3 years. his numbers were just fine this year and probably wont improve much. Self plays a team offense that will spread the scoring around and still focus on Mccormick. I believe Och will always be a very solid player but always be a secondary scorer on any team. i think his draft status next year will look very similar to his status this year. He probably should have left after his freshman season when he was in most mock drafts based on his future projections
Preach… I don’t think his draft stock would improve much, if any, if he decided to come back (do I want him to? Yeah. But that’s selfish me talking), especially with the added depth and talent - with more to come - that we have coming in. His playing time could actually decrease next season.
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@tis4tim I think DTae is now 7th in all time 3 pt leaders for the hornets.
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ESPN updated their board, Ochai not found on the Top 60.
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@Crimsonorblue22 said in Ochai:
@tis4tim I think DTae is now 7th in all time 3 pt leaders for the hornets.
That’s just really cool. We often discuss our favorite KU players in this forum and there are so many from which to choose for so many reasons, but DTae is one of my faves. Just loved his quiet confidence, his smile, his overall demeanor and the fact he was a project and an underdog to get to the league.
I liked Josh Jackson a lot because of that same cool, laid back demeanor too. Not to mention his retro vibe.
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@bskeet umm no its not. as other posters have said. His minutes and point production might actually go DOWN next year because of all the new bodies being brought into the program. more competition is great for the coaches but sucks for the players.
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@BeddieKU23 not surprising. I’m not saying that it would be a wise decision for him to leave, only that he probably will. I mean, how many NBA teams are there and how many players per roster? Really, not good odds.
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Ochai’s best case at the next level is a 3 and D guy that maybe turns into a starter or star with more development.
5% scenario - star after a couple years as he develops his ball handling more and becomes a creator off the dribble. Think Kawhi Leonard.
10% scenario - starter as an impact defender, third or fourth scoring option that can sometimes get hot from three. Think Danny Green.
25% scenario - 3 and D wing off the bench. Think Derrick Jones, Jr. or PJ Dozier.
35% scenario - two way/ 10 day contract guy, followed by a long career overseas. Think Wayne Selden.
24% scenario - high level Euroballer. Think Keith Langford.
1% scenario - no pro ball.
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Langford’s career can be used as textbook on how to make coin playing Euroball.
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Lol we cannot keep just saying “become the next Keith Langford.”
It’s becoming disrespectful to Keith who has legitimately been one of the best ever Euroballers. What he’s done, it isn’t easy. It isn’t textbook. He’s 37 and still playing ball for millions. At 35 he just won player of the year in his league in Greece. That’s just not normal.
He’s an absolute stud who could have played in the NBA so not everyone can just “be Keith. Just do what Keith did.”
The guy has made $2-3M a year for 10+ years now. That isn’t normal for most guys. Keith has now become the exception, not the rule. Now it should become “he should HOPE he can be the next Keith Langford.” Doing what he’s doing now at 37 years old is INSANE. And we should put a little bit more respect behind his name.
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LOL…Langford routinely hit clutch shots for Kansas. Ochai cant shoot and is really limited creating going to the hole. ZERO comparisons here.
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I hope I’m the next Keith Langford
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@wissox you probably didn’t even TRY to go pro in Europe
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I’m not saying Ochai will be Keith Langford. Langford was a better recruit, and had a much better collegiate career. But I think Ochai could be a 10 year Euroballer for some good teams, maybe win a championship, etc. He probably has a higher ceiling in Europe than he does in the NBA. He’s a good enough player to be a starter (and possible star) in Europe right now with little change or improvement.
I mentioned Kawhi Leonard as career path comp for his NBA star scenario. Ochai isn’t Kawhi, obviously, but if he were to become an NBA star, that would likely be the career trajectory that he would follow.
I mentioned Danny Green as a comp for the starter scenario. Danny Green is a very accomplished NBA player after 4 years at UNC and some GLeague time. If Ochai becomes an NBA starter, this is probably the career trajectory that he follows.
Same for the other guys. Those are rough comps, but those are the career trajectories that he likely follows if he gets to that level. The success level will vary, but those are the basic blueprints.
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Yeah, I think the confusion comes from when you said “think … <name>” you weren’t referring to a likely comp, but rather the most successful person that took each path.
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@Kcmatt7 I forgot about the trying part
