NOA response from KU discussion
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It will be very interesting to see what path this goes down. The NCAA as KU pointed did jump to conclusions and break their own rules. Also sounds like 90% of dirt on KU comes from Zions recruitment which they have apparently refused to look at. Also they had pretty much put the hush hush on Arizona tho supposedly they have a recording of Miller talking about giving Ayton 100k. Miller was so guilty he even said good bye to fans after last season but nothing has come of it. At this point it plenty obvious that a good chunk of schools are breaking rules. Over 60 were listed in this probe. If they only go after KU, I’d expect a discrimination law suit at this point. It looks really bad for them that none of the Nike schools that have dirt are being punished. That’s before you get into UNCs fake class scandal having zero consequences. I’ll just called like I see it Nike is funneling money to the NCAA some how. I’d pretty much put my life on it.
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Most of this surrounds around Gassnola and him being labeled a booster to the KU program.
The zion part was cherry picked from texts and is one of the few allegations that have absolutely zero merit or evidence to back up anything. If anything the only evidence collected contradicts their own allegations.
You did get one thing right, this was severe overreach but its probably not going to matter. This is the sham of the NCAA
I really hope KU takes this to court
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When you are not only judge, jury and executioner, but also run the investigation and decide who gets investigated…that’s the best way to fairness in my experience. Lol
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@DoubleDD said in NOA response from KU discussion:
I guess the 300 pound gorilla in the room is, “what purpose does the NCAA really serve”?
It seems to most the NCAA is a waste of money, and lacks real leadership. In fact some would say the NCAA shows a Bias towards certain schools. This is why I think think KU is fighting back so hard.
Could KU kill the NCAA as we know it?
Kill it!
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Avenatti is a Dem and lawyer Ass, but he was on to something with Nike.
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@Bwag Sure he was, no doubt. And now he is also on to jail.
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@Bwag Gotta like the Mafia-style sales pitch, though. “I found a problem for you. A few mil and it goes away.”
He didn’t understand that the mob has an alternative when they offer a deal that makes it one “that they can’t refuse.”
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The NCAA has gone big game hunting on this one. They want to flex their muscle a little bit and I think they are using KU as a test case. Of course, the money is all about to be on top of the table now, but I think that’s the NCAA’s plan - see if they can punish a school for the actions of a ShoeCo. Of course, that opens a whole other can of worms, but when you’re fishing anyway…
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I see this case as the NCAA trying to posture their perceived strength in front of the D1 audience.
This will boil down to a case of chicken… will Kansas bring this into the courtroom? I’m betting they will continue to show their answer as “yes” and if the NCAA is smart, they will find a cleaver way to save face and drop this nonsense.
To some degree, Kansas has already faced vetting in a criminal case and came out “the victim.” I like their chances in civil court. The NCAA can’t continue coming into a courtroom and having their privacy jurisdiction pierced. Every time this happens, their protection as a private organization becomes weaker and weaker and weaker…
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Just a quick observation: KU depending on the appeal of the federal case not being final sort of depends on that case not becoming final while ours is still pending. What happens if it does?
I am also wondering something about my fellow readers: how many of you supporting KU’s objection to the NCAA’s use of the not-technically-admissible evidence have ever expressed anger about a criminal defendant getting off on a technicality if a judge threw out a technically illegal search?
I am a full defender of the exclusionary rule, but I seem to vaguely recall that not everyone is…
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@mayjay I would feel better not getting off on a technicality; it doesn’t look like the NCAA will follow their own guidelines, so it may be moot. It looks to me like the NCAA will penalize KU and KU will have to fight it in court if they want a favorable outcome. Problem is I don’t know if they can get a favorable outcome. If Adidas is allowed to give money to kids for KU and KU doesn’t get in trouble then it’ll open it wide up for the shoecos to fully run college basketball openly. The NCAA wants to maintain its control over member institutions and more importantly it’s cash cow the NCAA tournament. But if KU wins they may ultimately lose by allowing NIKE to openly buy players on a scale ADIDAS may not be able to.
Personally I just want it cleaned up to a point we can pretend it’s amateur athletics.
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@dylans “Personally I just want it cleaned up to a point we can pretend it’s amateur athletics.”
While we’re at it, let’s clean up politics to where we can pretend they’re not all crooks. And stupid.
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@mayjay said in NOA response from KU discussion:
Just a quick observation: KU depending on the appeal of the federal case not being final sort of depends on that case not becoming final while ours is still pending. What happens if it does?
I am also wondering something about my fellow readers: how many of you supporting KU’s objection to the NCAA’s use of the not-technically-admissible evidence have ever expressed anger about a criminal defendant getting off on a technicality if a judge threw out a technically illegal search?
I am a full defender of the exclusionary rule, but I seem to vaguely recall that not everyone is…
The NCAA is not the US legal system though and don’t abide by the same rules when it comes to making decisions and handing out punishments.
I do support the exclusionary rule because it does protect people from having their 4th amendment rights violated, but since the NCAA doesn’t operate by the same rules, neither should KU in this case.
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@nuleafjhawk I think it is impossible to get rid of corruption in politics.
Stupidity in politics is a good target if you can tell me how to fix stupid in the voters!
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Interesting timing. The NCAA lowers the boom on Siena on the eve of their conference tournament. A glimpse of things to come?
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Associated Press LOUDONVILLE, N.Y -- Siena College has been handed a three-year probation and a $5,000 fine for violations an NCAA investigation of the program found under former men's basketball coach Jimmy Patsos.The NCAA found that Patsos provided impermissible benefits, including payments to players.
According to the NCAA Committee on Infractions, Patsos gave cash to student-athletes in the locker room after several games over the final three years he served as head coach. Payments ranged from $60 to $100 or more. The committee said the former coach did not seek guidance from the school’s compliance staff but he acknowledged some of the violations and said he misunderstood NCAA rules.
Siena, a private Catholic school outside the New York state capital of Albany, self-reported the violations a year-and-a-half ago.
The NCAA said that during the probation Siena must disassociate itself with an unnamed booster who interfered in the probe.
Punishment for the Level II violations vacates 46 wins from the final three seasons Patsos was head coach. He resigned after the 2017-18 season amid a wide-ranging investigation by the school that unearthed allegations of problems ranging from abusive conduct to financial improprieties within the men’s basketball program.
The NCAA also levied a three-year, show-cause order against Patsos, meaning that any NCAA member school that hires him must restrict him from athletically related duties unless it can demonstrate why the restrictions should not apply.
The committee announced its findings Monday, on the eve of the Metro Atlantic Athletic Conference tournament in Atlantic City, New Jersey. Siena is the top seed after winning the regular-season title.
Siena athletic director John D’Argenio said the school has two weeks to respond to the NCAA.
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Wonder if any students were retained from then, and if they got “Silvio-ed” for receiving that cash?
I love the defense–“didn’t know I couldn’t give cash to my players.” Anyone hiring this clown should just be put on probation for being stupid.
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I reckon this one will have a direct impact on KU’s. Involves Gassnola and booster status.
https://www.si.com/college/2020/04/08/nc-state-ncaa-investigation-dennis-smith
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Just finished watching the scheme on HBO, the FBI’s case is really quite laughable. They pretty much dropped the hammer on Dawkins because they needed to on someone. Definitely some eye opening stuff. Like a wire tap Sean Miller saying Ayton is costing him 10k a month. It pretty much confirmed what I think is happening. NIKE is paying the NCAA hundreds of millions or more to not look into NIKE’s main schools. Will Wade also looks super guilty. Wasn’t really anything on KU, UK, UNC or Dook in it. I’m no law professor but having a head coach on tape saying stuff like that but the NCAA doing nothing sounds like discrimination by definition.
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@Texas-Hawk-10 said in NOA response from KU discussion:
@mayjay said in NOA response from KU discussion:
Just a quick observation: KU depending on the appeal of the federal case not being final sort of depends on that case not becoming final while ours is still pending. What happens if it does?
I am also wondering something about my fellow readers: how many of you supporting KU’s objection to the NCAA’s use of the not-technically-admissible evidence have ever expressed anger about a criminal defendant getting off on a technicality if a judge threw out a technically illegal search?
I am a full defender of the exclusionary rule, but I seem to vaguely recall that not everyone is…
The NCAA is not the US legal system though and don’t abide by the same rules when it comes to making decisions and handing out punishments.
I do support the exclusionary rule because it does protect people from having their 4th amendment rights violated, but since the NCAA doesn’t operate by the same rules, neither should KU in this case.
And that is the problem with the NCAA, it does not operate by or follow the same rules - tyrannical, and - an arguement could be made - even anti-American.
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@mayjay said in NOA response from KU discussion:
@nuleafjhawk I think it is impossible to get rid of corruption in politics.
Stupidity in politics is a good target if you can tell me how to fix stupid in the voters!
Maybe the voters have been and are being stupid due to their having no choice but to be? Not a big fan of our political class.
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Time to go to war. https://twitter.com/sethdavishoops/status/1258093496734384128?s=21
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Party time.
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@BShark you know anything?
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Obviously the response from the NCAA will be a laugher. They will double down
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just came across in the last 15 minutes. Listening to local sports talk. Ku responding to the NCAA 'S response - - 92 pages they will be going over soon
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@BeddieKU23 said in NOA response from KU discussion:
Obviously the response from the NCAA will be a laugher. They will double down
I’m skimming it quick, and they have jack shit. They’ve never said shoe cos were boosters in any other case ever. They’re basically saying Gassnola perjured himself with no proof in pinning the violations on Self and Townsend. Even Mike Bray is like whoa there this is routine business you’re turning into L1 violations with no additional guidance telling us what we’re doing is wrong.
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What a giant crock of shit the NCAA’s response is. To be expected of course but still.
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@FarmerJayhawk said in NOA response from KU discussion:
@BeddieKU23 said in NOA response from KU discussion:
Obviously the response from the NCAA will be a laugher. They will double down
I’m skimming it quick, and they have jack shit. They’ve never said shoe cos were boosters in any other case ever. They’re basically saying Gassnola perjured himself with no proof in pinning the violations on Self and Townsend. Even Mike Bray is like whoa there this is routine business you’re turning into L1 violations with no additional guidance telling us what we’re doing is wrong.
They are looking at KU to make a Standard lol., KU was ingracious - - -severe violations and KU was undermining ,that KU was taking a defiant posture BOY we reaching now lol. - -they were talking about this on the local sports talk , so might not have been the EXACT words but it was the jest of what the NCAA was talking about.
Talking about on the Football how Beaty was aware of Activity and even supporting things - -holy crap Batman
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Just checked in with one of my main guys at KU. They’re going at this until the bitter end with the full support of donors.
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You guys make me feel a lil better! It’s hard to be sitting home except to occasionally getting groceries and to worry about everything, even Matt’s wedding!
did mike bray just speak out? Is this next step w/ncaa or their appeal committee we met w/about Silvio.
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@FarmerJayhawk said in NOA response from KU discussion:
Just checked in with one of my main guys at KU. They’re going at this until the bitter end with the full support of donors.
Good, this should be the stance. Seems like most if not all of what the NCAA has is from the trial.
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I sure hope they go at this with everything. I knew they will double down on their bull crap and it still angers me to no end that they actually think what they are saying is true. Sad organization
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@FarmerJayhawk said in NOA response from KU discussion:
@BeddieKU23 said in NOA response from KU discussion:
Obviously the response from the NCAA will be a laugher. They will double down
I’m skimming it quick, and they have jack shit. They’ve never said shoe cos were boosters in any other case ever. They’re basically saying Gassnola perjured himself with no proof in pinning the violations on Self and Townsend. Even Mike Bray is like whoa there this is routine business you’re turning into L1 violations with no additional guidance telling us what we’re doing is wrong.
This was about as predictable as the sun coming up. The old man club must die
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SN going full wtf is the NCAA thinking https://www.sportingnews.com/us/ncaa-basketball/news/ncaa-response-to-kansas-bill-self-shows-confidence-in-its-case-but-not-an-abundance-of-logic/1bsrlbv5pc6tx1enyaicva9niy
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KU’s going to get hit with stuff for the payments to Preston and DeSousa. I don’t think anybody here has argued against that because that stuff happened. The severity of those punishments is going to depend on the final ruling of Gasnola and Adidas.
The NCAA is going to deeply regret the decision if they continue to pursue that Adidas is a KU booster. That’s decision that will ultimately cost the NCAA a lot of money because it will trickle to other corporate sponsors and other programs. Every other program is going to be rooting for KU in that part of the case because of the ramifications a ruling in the NCAA’s favor would have on everyone.
If the NCAA’s insistent on claiming KU was the only program benefitting from that practice, then that’s simple enough to disprove because of Brian Bowen. If the NCAA still claims it’s only Adidas, then keep it in house and bring back the Silvio part of the case and purpose of the $20,000 payment that Gasnola attempted to make. Now you have Under Armour dead to rights for the same practice. So now let’s say the NCAA acknowledges Adidas and UA, but ignores Nike, now KU should probably go full scorched earth and bring up the recruitments of DeAndre Ayton and Zion Williamson. Subpoena a Nike official involved in Ayton’s recruitment to ask why Ayton at pretty close to the last minute decides to commit to a program that had a coach nailed for bribery? Then you subpoena whoever at Nike that can answer why there is recording of Zion Williamson tied to $200,000 from Adidas to go to KU, but ended up at Duke. Did he simply turn down life changing money to go to Duke for free?
It just seems to me that the NCAA calling a corporate partner a booster is going to go down a rabbit hole the NCAA is going to deeply regret down if they pursue it.
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@FarmerJayhawk said in NOA response from KU discussion:
SN going full wtf is the NCAA thinking https://www.sportingnews.com/us/ncaa-basketball/news/ncaa-response-to-kansas-bill-self-shows-confidence-in-its-case-but-not-an-abundance-of-logic/1bsrlbv5pc6tx1enyaicva9niy
Mike Decourcy asks the most important question here: How do you claim that adidas is a representative of kansas’ athletic interests but also claim that shoe/apparel companies like nike are not acting in the interest of other universities?
The ncaa’s response to this - “there is no cause for concern among member institutions as most of their relationships with corporate entities comply with ncaa legislation” - is pretty vague and weak.
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@KirkIsMyHinrich said in NOA response from KU discussion:
@FarmerJayhawk said in NOA response from KU discussion:
SN going full wtf is the NCAA thinking https://www.sportingnews.com/us/ncaa-basketball/news/ncaa-response-to-kansas-bill-self-shows-confidence-in-its-case-but-not-an-abundance-of-logic/1bsrlbv5pc6tx1enyaicva9niy
Mike Decourcy asks the most important question here: How do you claim that adidas is a representative of kansas’ athletic interests but also claim that shoe/apparel companies like nike are not acting in the interest of other universities?
The ncaa’s response to this - “there is no cause for concern among member institutions as most of their relationships with corporate entities comply with ncaa legislation” - is pretty vague and weak.
That statement alone from the NCAA makes me want to see KU go full scorched earth on the NCAA and burn them to the ground in the court room and summon every major recruit that has been connected to KU in recruiting and ask Nike/Under Armour representatives why a player rejected an offer from an Adidas rep to play for KU. There’s enough out there on Ayton and Zion that KU can drag Arizona and Duke down with them.
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@Texas-Hawk-10 very well said buddy!
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I am still having difficulty seeing Preston as an issue. Yes he got money I don’t doubt that however when it came to light he was instantly benched before ever playing a game, right? So can’t KU say yep he got paid and almost snuck that by us but once we got a clue, the car thing, our compliance people were on it in a flash, found the problem, and we reacted accordingly. Isn’t that how things are supposed to work?
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@Kubie said in NOA response from KU discussion:
I am still having difficulty seeing Preston as an issue. Yes he got money I don’t doubt that however when it came to light he was instantly benched before ever playing a game, right? So can’t KU say yep he got paid and almost snuck that by us but once we got a clue, the car thing, our compliance people were on it in a flash, found the problem, and we reacted accordingly. Isn’t that how things are supposed to work?
The punishment KU gets for Preston shouldn’t be very severe because he didn’t play a regular season game for KU and compliance did pull him as soon as a red flag was raised. That doesn’t change that a significant amount of money did change hands for Preston to attend KU so there will be something for that, probably probation, but there will be punishment for Preston.
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If there is punishment for the Preston situation I see no reason to support NCAA sports anymore
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@BeddieKU23 If it’s anything beyond probation for that incident specifically, then it’s an issue. Money was exchanged for him to come to KU, that is a violation plain and simple. Preston never playing a regular season game for KU will save them from a more severe punishment, but KU has no comeback for Preston getting paid by Adidas to attend KU.
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@Texas-Hawk-10 yep, put Preston on probation immediately.
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@Bwag his mother screwed him and us over, happy moms day to her!
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It feels like the prosecution style in the US court system 50 years ago… when you could be convicted with the guy sitting next to you who had pot on him because you were sitting in the same car. The NCAA believes the other passengers knew about the pot and probably benefited by sharing in the smoking.
Those cases “went up in smoke” later as the rights of each individual were broken.
I think Kansas will do well in federal court. The NCAA shoots themselves in the foot as much as they do anything else. Stating shoecos are boosters is just a novel idea. It is something that has never been formally established. Schools can not be held accountable because of an idea that was never established. Moving forward is a different thing. If the world would like to establish shoecos as boosters then situations like this can be addressed under different guidelines.
Giving Adidas personnel free access to practices? Free tickets to games? That’s called “working access.” Adidas is supplying shoes and needs to see how those shoes are being applied in use. And the fact that they hold multi-million dollar contracts with schools is merely business in a capitalist society. It takes hundreds of contracts to make college sports work. Who handles security at games… contracted… where do those hot dogs come from at concessions… contracted. Are all of these companies “boosters?”
Kansas needs to sue the NCAA. And they will. For unfair persecution. Their ability to hide behind a private organization’s rules are over. Their power has already been pierced through the federal courts. Kansas should go after them to the point of ending this organization and having control come through federal policies and enforcement through the DOJ.
Time to end this clown governing body. It’s always been a joke!
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I am starting to feel good about my prediction… In fact, in light of everything, my prediction might a bit too severe.
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I don’t feel good about any of it.
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@Crimsonorblue22 I am sorry to hear that…
