Liberace Game Thread
-
@benshawks08 a controlled response would’ve helped from KSUs coaching staff instead of having starters still in that late and fouling hard. A controlled response by the KSU player by not stealing it, a controlled response from the bench player charging and hitting Silvio would’ve helped. Plenty of folks played a hand in it but KSU started it with a bush league play, end of story.
-
@benshawks08 Unfortunately, it seems so many in our world of sport seem to think that is part of the game: do what we can to belittle the other person/team, don’t take any crap from him/them, etc. As coaches, we need to teach our athletes how to learn to walk away and let the opponent figure out how to deal with it.
-
@kjayhawks Definitely. Plenty of blame to go around here. Many poor decisions both individual and systematic.
-
@COHawk It’s what kills me about Marshall’s play angry nonsense. Play to win. Play for joy. Play to get better. Why anger? Cheapest motivator.
-
BigBad said:
@bskeet You missed a key element…The fact that the game was over and the benches were already standing. If this happened with 10-15 seconds left I don’t think K-suck clears bench
That’s a fair addition.
Also, the point @kjayhawks made about K-State’s decision to press and foul hard when trailing by 25, our bench players in, and there’s less than 2 min left.
None of this condones Silvio’s decision to taunt. But it might help explain the powder keg.
-
And were they penalized for storming the court and slamming jamari a few years ago? Self was pinned against the scorers table.
-
@kjayhawks being KU, and letting anything anyone from KSU does… Throw you that far off your rocker? Bush league or not? We had nothing to gain and everything to lose. If the roles were reversed and any ksuck player had done the same thing, garauntee you’d be berating that player and calling the situation their fault right now. Tired of this thuggish, it’s okay for us but not for them… Two wrongs suddenly make a right, everyone else is doing it bullshit and that’s why I’ve watched a grand total of 2.5 games of NCAA basketball this season thus far… A guy that used to watch atleast 300 a season (no joke).
-
COHawk said:
Unfortunately, it seems so many in our world of sport seem to think that is part of the game: do what we can to belittle the other person/team, don’t take any crap from him/them, etc. As coaches, we need to teach our athletes how to learn to walk away and let the opponent figure out how to deal with it.
Agreed! Or even try to injure other players. Look at the flack Tyrann Mathieu got for not decking Watson at the end of what was then a blowout.
-
@Crimsonorblue22 Now, now…Remember, Traylor should not have been on our team and Self should never have played him, etc etc etc. Did you forget there was a (self-proclaimed) “winner” of that argument? It was Self’s decision to play JT, so it was Self’s fault he was in Manhattan to get slammed by the KSU turd.
-
.
-
-
Looks like it should be a meme… “When ya cant recruit because of impending violations.……”
-
Soon here will come the token “espn only covers Duke, we gotta get exposure from something”
-
@cragarhawk the Bulk of the blame is on the guy that runs in and starts swinging, which in this case was a KSU guy. If it was reversed I’d say it was the KU that ran in and turned it into a physical altercation. You of all people know how pissed I’d get at the Morris twins for similar actions repeatedly. This is the first I’ve seen Silvio pull like this. It was outta line but he didn’t lay a hand on anyone first. Which doesn’t make it right but also really isn’t that big of a deal, if ether team just would’ve let it roll.
-
@kjayhawks Isn’t that big of a deal? Perception is huge; how will our administration perceive the incident? How will other schools perceive it? How will recruits perceive it? How does the media perceive it? Doesn’t matter who started it and we don’t need to blame others; we can’t condone or rationalize such actions as part of sport.
-
We won’t even talk about this in March.
Don’t steal the ball at the end. None of this happens. If you wanna be a dick, expect it right back.
If Silvio hasn’t picked up a chair I’d say he didn’t even deserve a suspension. But he did. So 1 game sounds fair in my book. (I’m sure it’ll be more).
-
@Kcmatt7 You’re probably right about not talking about it come March, but I’d be willing to bet we hear about it from opponents and the media. Hopefully, all involved can take something positive from it, accept any consequences, and move on.
-
kjayhawks said:
@bskeet yep @Texas-Hawk-10 said he claimed to have pulled them off but this wasn’t the last few seconds and the steal, it was the whole time our walk ons were in. They still had starters in, Weber’s stupidity is definitely in play here.
Weber wasn’t the problem , he had instructed his players to back off and let the seconds tick off. Gordon decided to steal the ball anyways. - - the block by DeSousa was fine , it was the standing over him which they define as taunting is hat really sparked things.
Like the announcers said it is the un written law you don’t steal a ball like that when a team is dribbling out the clock - -BUT you also don’t stand over the guy and taunt him after the block. - -You blocked the lay up attempt , block it and walk the other way - - Dam how hard is that to comprehend Silvio
-
HighEliteMajor said:
kjayhawks said:
@bskeet yep @Texas-Hawk-10 said he claimed to have pulled them off but this wasn’t the last few seconds and the steal, it was the whole time our walk ons were in. They still had starters in, Weber’s stupidity is definitely in play here.
Uh, no. Block the shot, high five your teammates, all smiles, game over. Easy.
Have to Agree. Like I’ve been saying you make the block – let’s them know your not getting any chump lay up at the end - - you make the block , and then turn around and WALK AWAY , - -GAME OVER end of story, yet no Silvio feels the need to stand over the top of him , that’s defined as taunting
-
Decided to turn on ESPN’S Golic & Wingo this morning to see what was going to be said.
They were all in agreement that actually this lies on DeJon Gordon’s problem. - They stated that Bruce Weber had instructed his players to back off in the final seconds.
Stating Gordon steals the ball , they said at this point you have two choices as a 18 year old. - -ONE you can say ok, go ahead get your lay up you just got beat by 20 plus points -OR you can do what Silvio did which most kids this age would do try and block the shot - -BUT you don’t stand over a kid and taunt him.
They also said what Gordon done was wrong, referring it to like the unwritten law you have - I a foot ball game when the game is over and a team is in Victory formation and the other team a player comes in and try to tackle someone at his knee’s – you just don’t do that. – Same thing in /Basketball they said your getting beat by 20 plus or multiple possessions and the winning team is just trying to dribble the time off the clock , you steal the ball AFER your Coach tells you to back off , they said there is going to be consequences.
They said this now is no longer a K-State situation - -this is no longer a KU situation , this has become a KU administration/K/State administration - -Big 12 conference situation , going to be some severe suspensions
-
PER’s after the Sunshine ****show
First Overall PER’s. Doke & Dot continue to lead the way.
Conference Play only PER’s.
Notice the 2 point drop from Silvio. I’d imagine the analytics accounted for picking up a chair and not using it and some missed landed punches.
On a good note- play Christian Braun. PER near 20 after last night.
-
BeddieKU23 said:
PER’s after the Sunshine ****show
First Overall PER’s. Doke & Dot continue to lead the way.
Conference Play only PER’s.
Notice the 2 point drop from Silvio. I’d imagine the analytics accounted for picking up a chair and not using it and some missed landed punches.
On a good note- play Christian Braun. PER near 20 after last night.
What is particularly eye-catching is Ochai’s steep drop-off…
-
Focusing on the game itself, perhaps lost in the glow of Braun’s breakout performance, it’s worth noting that the rest of the rotation players were just 2-15 from 3. Not suggesting that we wouldn’t have won without Braun going off, but it might have made for some tense moments. And, that kind of shooting is not going to get it done against better teams…
-
Was listening to some more. - Golic and Wingo both saying that they were taking a beating on twitter. -Golic saying don’t tell me that Gordan didn’t intisigate this - -light the match. - -Talking about how Gordon took it on himself to steal the ball AFTER the Coach had told the players to back off… - He said now what took place afterwards , saying ya there is no place in that in Basketball. - but said you steal the ball, that’s ok , BUT it’s also ok for Silvio to block the shot. It’s the other things that took place.
They gave an example saying and or asking about Gordon and saying your down 22 points man , there is no such thing as a 22 point play in College Basketball , saying Gordon thinking well I’m going to get me two points saying that was meaningless. They gave an example saying that the U Conn Coach of the women’s basketball team - ( Geno ) -saying after U Conn getting beat by Baylor at the time – he said he told or ask his players , we were down by 16 with a minute to go in the game - - I ask them why are we still fouling down 16 points with under a minute to go - there are no 16 point shots - -makes a good point
-
I believe that Silvio is done. He will be dismissed from the team. The picture of him ready to slam with the chair in his hands is disgusting.
-
Yeah in conference play he hasn’t been good.
I thought last night he was really aggressive in the beginning, disappeared for a while but rebounded and defended. Missing way too many open shots though
-
AsadZ said:
I believe that Silvio is done. He will be dismissed from the team. The picture of him ready to slam with the chair in his hands is disgusting.
ya I think he will be dismissed by the end of the day. - -The stool makes that pretty clear. Hard to hide such things like this - right there, no trying to deny
-
I think the Big-12 gives Silvio (x amount of game suspension) but following the announcement Silvio is indefinitely suspended by Bill Self. Would be shocked if he played again this season. The intent to use the chair says it all.
Dave is probably facing 1-3 games (or more). Reckless behavior from him as well.
-
Silvio de Stoolza … sigh
-
So, KU scandals in the past 15 years…
Ticketgate, Sneakergate, and now Stoolgate.
In thinking about this, what I am most amazed about is that SDS seemed to have handled first the initial eligibility determination delay (when he first came out) and then the whole NCAA suspension (and more delay) with more patience and grace than anyone could have ever expected.
-
@mayjay exactly, that why’s I think it was outta character.
-
Bosthawk said:
Silvio de Stoolza … sigh
Well done!
-
I have no input at this time - just wanted to change the number of posts…
-
Who’s the attacker? Hope cooler heads prevail and these kids get another chance.
Side note (we -wife and I) are in the background behind Love’s dome.
-
@dylans That is James Love. Were you able to see more details than on the film clip?
-
For all of the crap that KU and Self have put up with with SDS not too mention the money spent I do not think there is any chance he is dismissed from the team. What he did was dumb but it is not the end of the world.
-
Let’s plan ahead here. What would be a new thread title for round 2 next month? See, I think of the important stuff.
-
-
This is the last straw for me. The scandals, the corruption, late night, a stubborn, inflexible coach, players who just aren’t all that interested in KU putting on the uniform and on and on. Fatigue and apathy has finally set in for me as I cannot identify with this brand of athletics.
There is no justification or contextual mitigation for any of what occurred last night. This team is in total disarray and lacks any kind of self-control. That starts at the top. Perhaps a major change is finally in order because I simply cannot support or condone such unscrupulous behavior. All this time I really wanted to believe we were the good guys. But we’re really no better than anyone else. In fact, yesterday may prove once and for all we are the complete antithesis of “good”.
If ANY team in the country should have avoided the shenanigans from last night it was KU. But they simply cannot get out of their own way. We are now all over the sports media and the regular media for all the wrong reasons yet again. It’s disgusting.
Something needs to change.
-
Hmm, while it is embarrassing, and really poor timing, the fact that a long-time, in-state rival pulled a bonehead move by stealing the ball when they are down by 20 with a few seconds left on the clock, followed by a really frustrated college kid legally blocking the shot then gloating for a second, followed by said instate rivals starting a shoving match, at our house, which caused more kids to get involved, to me, hardly constitutes “the complete antithesis of good”.
Sports and emotions are completely intertwined. Do you feel happy when we win? Sad when we lose? How about really really happy when we win an NC? How about really really sad when we lose to team at the Dance we know we can beat 9 times out of 10?
Now imagine you’re a testosterone filled college kid who’s had an incredibly tough time the past few years on the court last night in the above scenario.
Do we expect better of him? Of course we do. Was it a total boneheaded move not to just flex and walk away after the block? Of course it was. Was the stool thing scary and completely out of line and calls for severe punishment? Of course it does.
Does the emotional outburst of a kid athlete, and other kids rushing to his defense, mean the whole program is in the sh!tter? In my opinion, of course it doesn’t.
Is our squeaky clean reputation a thing of past? Yea, for awhile it sure looks like it. Had we better learn from this? Hell yes we better.
Am is still proud to be a Jayhawk? Well my pride is a little bruised right now, but, yea, hell yes I am.
-
Silvio suspended indefinitely, per Self. Pending Big 12 review.
-
FarmerJayhawk said:
Silvio suspended indefinitely, per Self. Pending Big 12 review.
Yeah the indefinitely tag seemed like the easiest way to make a swift move so they can continue to review everything
-
Why do fans care what other fans and or media says about there team? I will never understand that.
-
@Woodrow BiRGing.
-
Something just occurred to me: did anyone notice how many long distance shot attempts SDS missed in the brawl? Obviously he’s not the answer to the search for a 4 with range.
-
PER dropped him 2 points for the chair drop & missed attempts
-
Ok help me out, please. I heard a couple people and saw a sign that said something about Bruce eating soup. Eat your soup Bruce. Bruce eats soup with a fork.
What’s that about??? @BShark @FarmerJayhawk @kjayhawks @anyone?!?
-
@mayjay He’s form is correctable. He just needs to stop leaning back on his release.
-
Silvio is quite the lightning rod. All the talk in the press seems to be about him rather than the K-State players. This is not fair.
It is definitely his fault for taunting after the block. The technical foul was fair. But the physical altercation was instigated and escalated by K-State players-- multiple individuals.
In the video, what I see is KState players running to confront Silvio. One of them pushes him. I see Silvio brush that push away and another player pushes him and he begins to push away and back at the same time (look closely-- his hands are not clenched; they are open to deflect the aggressors.)
There are at least two pushing him, maybe three. Meanwhile, everyone around Silvio is telling him to stop because they are all KU fans. It looks to me like he’s trying to not over-react for a couple of seconds while the K-State players have no one holding them back. Then the third guy lunges and pushes Silvio down and he comes up swinging.
I think it’s important to look at Silvio’s body language in those early moments. He is not trying to fight at first. He gets provoked and then all hell breaks loose. The stool incident I see as an instinctive act… and one that he fortunately is able to overcome with help of those around him.
Silvio is justifiably being called out. But he should not be singled out. The players from K-State who were responsible for the escalation and the first physical acts should be equally called out.
As is often the case when there is great disparity between two forces, the smaller power can’t win with the traditional rules, so they resort to guerrilla tactics to get the bigger power to do something uncharacteristic. Silvio bit on the bait.
-
bskeet said:
Silvio is justifiably being called out. But he should not be singled out.
He picked up a stool. That is why he is singled out.
