Trouble?
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HighEliteMajor said:
I keep coming back to this - If everyone is doing it, then everyone knows, that everyone includes Bill Self, and thus Bill Self has blatantly lied. The everyone could be a limited definition, say just the top 15ish programs. Or a broad definition. Doesn’t matter. We’re part of “everyone” as a top program. “Doing it” would be the shoeco folks (Nike, Adidas, UA) providing benefits for kids to attend certain schools.
But if everyone isn’t doing it, then we’re still left with allegations that no one is really denying – we’re only suggesting that we shouldn’t be punished for the allegations related to Gassnola/Adidas.
What am I missing here?
If those are the two choices, neither choice seems to end well.
How is it not a choice between the two.
I don’t give a rat’s ass if EVERYONE is doing it theory - - I only care about KU. - -so if everyone was to step o a land mine - -does that mean we should step on one too? - - lmao - - ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
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@drgnslayr You just asked the question of the day. It can’t be viewed as anything but negative.
One major point that I think we have not discussed is the process here. This is a private organization. They have internal rules. We are now guilty. Meaning, when the NCAA gives out a NOA, that means they’ve found you guilty based on what they have. The school is then placed in the position of having to prove its innocence, or mitigate the conclusions with other information (thus to my prior points about internal investigations, transparency, reports, acknowledgement – this should include remedial action, and how we handle it once we get the info). So we’re not in a position where the NCAA has to prove anything. They have their info.
And this is what I was trying to get across to one poster in particular prior to this coming out. There is a wealth of info. See the NOA. It’s very easy to connect the dots. That’s all the NCAA has to do. And stuff we didn’t know (or didn’t consider). Like Larry Brown. I didn’t really think of that. But it’s more wood on the pile.
The issue is the treatment of Shoecos. Isn’t that really it? Without the linkage (booster designation) between the Shoeco action and KU/Self, this is viewed much differently.
That’s where we’re in trouble though. The NCAA is linking this. They are saying we’re one in the same. It’s no different than the guy driving the get away car when his partner kills someone in the bank during a robbery – the get away driver still gets charged with murder.
What’s a cruel twist of logic is that the prosecutors said KU was a victim of Adidas. Now we’re the co-conspirator. The private organization is not bound by prosecutorial logic. Even with that, one could argue that Self and the staff were acting against the interests of the monolithic university. But we have talked about all of that here before – the discussions of how Self could get charged. I mean if he was a co-conspirator with Gassnola/Adidas, as the NCAA seems to conclude here, it would seem the prosecutor could conclude the same thing.
As @drgnslayr correctly points out – why in God’s name was Self texting with this guy? Texting? I guess that’s how it works at UNC and Duke. Creating a paper trail, electronic of course. I cannot even image what the failed phone call wiretap would have revealed. I’m sure someone here could have hooked Self up with one of those texting apps.
As @BeddieKU23 said, Gassnola was known fraud. We now know what others knew about him before all of this. And Self was texting with him. About recruits and Gassnola’s involvement.
This is connect the dots. It is really easy to do. The NCAA felt it was easy too. And they don’t have to do much more. That stinks for us.
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How Fortuitus for Arizona, LSU, Louisville among others. Carry on.
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BeddieKU23 said:
How Fortuitus for Arizona, LSU, Louisville among others. Carry on.
What a crock.
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Well, would this not indicate that KU is now NOT under a 90 day deadline to reply?
The NCAA is suspending its deadlines for schools to respond to charges levied by the governing body in the wake of college basketball’s corruption scandal. In a letter obtained by The Associated Press in a public-records request, infractions committee member Carol Cartwright wrote NCAA vice president of enforcement Jon Duncan last week to say the committee “will not act” on cases until Nov. 20. She also wrote that all “briefing deadlines” are on hold during that time, such as the 90 days schools or individuals have to respond to charges outlined in a Notice of Allegations (NOA). NC State and Kansas both face discipline from the NCAA after being named in a federal criminal case involving improper payments to recruits and their families, which grew out of an FBI investigation into apparel company Adidas. Sources have told ESPN that NCAA investigations are also underway at Arizona, Auburn, Creighton, Louisville, LSU and USC.
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The way I read that is it does in fact put a pause on everything including the 90 days KU has to respond.
This is classic NCAA. They over reached here and KU smacked them back and they were not ready for it. Now they have to suspend everything so they can get caught up and get ready for all out blood bath KU is about to unleash.
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rockchalkwyo said:
@Crimsonorblue22 here’s a link found in a comment. How reputable is it? https://www.oregonlive.com/business/page/the_loyalty_game.html
Extremely. This is the “water” that all the institutions are swimming in. Amateurism in high dollar college sports is dead. Long live amateurism. And like the piece @jayballer73 mentioned (link: https://www.insidehighered.com/news/2016/01/11/96-division-i-colleges-violated-major-ncaa-rules-last-decade) it’s pretty clear that most, if not every single institution in the P5 is playing with fire. 56 of the 128 P5 members has had a major violation in the past decade. Like I’ve said, this isn’t just pervasive, it’s the norm. The NCAA can’t keep a lid on it, even when they try. They keep punishing schools yet the schools keep doing it. Maybe the underlying model is what’s broken?
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Call me lazy, but “lack of institutional control” is that not what Roy Williams was charged with some years ago at UNC? And they received squat.
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“Institutional control?” Aren’t we talking about Self and Townsend? Isn’t that “personal control?” I say that because it looks like we’ve exhibited very good institutional control. Billy and Silvio, both, were pulled off the court at the first sniff of trouble.
I mention this because it seems like if we receive penalties, it should be directed more towards the persons, and not the institution and the current players. Let’s not forget we have a model compliance program that has been copied all over the country. So the reputation of our university and compliance program need to be drug down in the mud?
This reminds me of the initial Silvio punishment. Punish him for his guardian’s actions.
Might we consider this to be where the line is drawn in the sand between Self and Kansas. Just how far are we willing to get behind Bill?
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HighEliteMajor said:
I’m trying to be respectful here. But you don’t understand what qualifies as proof. You seem to think there has to be a video, or a document that “convicts.”
So the perspective is considered, folks go to jail based on eyewitness testimony. The go to jail based on circumstantial evidence. You need to get past the opinion that there is no evidence.
For example -
TJ Gassnola testified under oath in a federal trial that he provided money to Preston and SDS. Testimony under oath is “proof.” Maybe not what you feel sufficient, but certainly sufficient in a court of law (and the low end stuff like NCAA enforcement). His level of credibility is extremely high because 1) Federal prosecutors put him on the stand in a high profile case, and 2) they would have vetted his claims related to his plea deal. Not to mention that his testimony helped lead to convictions, and his own actions led to a plea. KU presumably says they had no knowledge of it. So KU can’t deny it. KU undeniably sought Adidas’ help and intervention with recruits. The texting demonstrates that on its on, but that part isn’t denied anyway. Thus those actors, whom KU solicited for help, broke NCAA rules assisting KU in recruiting.
You also seem to think that because others are corrupt, KU can’t be punished. Don’t you think others have tutors that do the work for players like MU did? Or that booster give money to recruits like happened with BYU? They got punished, right?
The NCAA, like law enforcement, can only act on the info they have. Meaning, sure, others may be smuggling drugs but they don’t defer punishing those they catch because others are doing the same thing and not getting caught.
If you refuse to acknowledge or understand the above, I can’t help you.
As we sit here, we don’t know what the NCAA will do. I hope you’re right on the punishment. I fear a bad result. But I hope other factors weigh here and the NCAA wimps out (selfishly). I’ve felt from the start that if we get hammered, we should “burn it down.” That is, give the NCAA all the info we know on other schools, etc. Who knows, that might be going on behind closed doors. I would certainly, if I were KU, consider that negotiating strategy in advance to get a slap on the wrist.
I hear your every point, and - whatever the case may be the MCAA needs to weap
You are preaching to the choir, my man. I haven’t been to confession in years, and really don’t want to go.
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Was listening to Matt Norlander and Dennis Dodd doing an interview off CBS - -mercy they are painting a very possible ugly picture.
Was talking about a lot of other College Coach’s asking about KU - -behind the scenes wanting to know when this crap was coming down on us - - a lot of People waiting to see what is going to happen to Arizona. - - Yet they say they think Arizona is in that next tier , nothing happening with them till some time in 2020.
just kept talking about how KU was in some serious trouble , talking about Coach Townsend0 , Dodd talking about how he really doesn’t expect to see anything really happen this Season with KU - - it will be next Season - -doesn’t think there will be any post season ban - - THIS YEAR. - -sure sounds like Townsend could be gone.
Talks about how the NCAA could come to KU and say ok , these are your violations - - what are you going to do about them , he said He doesn’t think it will happen but Coach Self could be banned/suspended for TWO seasons - - other things they think can quite possibly happen and very likely will is vacating the 2018 final 4 because of DeSousa playing against Villanova – & also vacating the 2018 Big 12 title - - Coach Self looking at suspension for 2020 - - and possible post season ban in 2020
Other thing they said which we all ready know and that was that this is just going to destroy KU recruiting - the longer this lingers , because recruits not knowing how this is going to effect the season - - -and they don’t think we will know anything this year - -that it will be in 2020 - -because KU has 90 days for rebuttal and then the NCAA has 60 days to answer or whatever KU’S rebuttal
Guys this is going to be a REAL CHALLENGE - - emotionally and physically on people, gonna drain all ya got - -we need to be very aware this thing very easily could get really - - really ugly - - Coach Self will find bodies - - 4 year very developmental type more likely then not - - this is going to be a time when the rest of the Big 12 will realize now is the time to Kick KU’S ass because let’s face it - - were going to be down - -other schools gonna thrive on this crap - - Coach Self will get players - - - might be the type of Topeka YMCA players he talked about that year when we got beaten by whoever the hell it was and he was so PO’D - - - -gonna be some Juco’s - - maybe Grad transfers - - basically when all said and done , gonna be a player that has that frame of mind that he will come play for a HOF Coach no matter for the chance for this staff to develop them - - dark times ahead guys whether we are wanting to acknowledge or not.
And for the one’s that are just trying to laugh/brush this off - - thinking were just gonna get a slap on the wrist? - - umm ya you keep right on thinking that , and then let me have some of that shit you been smoking - -main time it’s time for you to put the pipe down and slowly back away - -it’s coming - -it’s just a matter of when - - you think slap of the wrist - - it’s more like getting those shots yanked down and getting that ass whupped NCAA whupping - - get ready - - - ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
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Meanwhile, North Carolina landed a commitment from five-star center Walker Kessler on Sunday night.
NCAA: No Academic Violations at UNC Ruling comes despite university’s finding that many athletes were for years enrolled in and passed courses they did not attend and that were not taught by anyone.
https://www.insidehighered.com/news/2017/10/16/breaking-ncaa-finds-no-academic-fraud-unc
I don’t buy into the “everyone else is doing it” excuse either but doesn’t it seem that the NCAA has always had double standards? Some schools seem immune to NCAA violations.
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What if I told you Kessler was the 2nd 5 star big man they have gotten this class. Nothing to see. Will shortly add their 3rd 5 star in Caleb Love (a once KU target)
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@BeddieKU23 I don’t see how Bill Self can go on the recruiting trail until the NCAA makes a ruling. Too many uncertainties. Hopefully, this doesn’t become a prolonged fight in the courts.
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Anyone know case law precedent on a victim being tried as a perpetrator of the crime for which they were exonerated?
I understand that the NCAA is not a court and therefore not beholden to double jeopardy laws, etc. Just curious if there’s some place where this has happened.
Also - really curious about the definition of a booster. If what I’ve read is true – that the NCAA suggests that it is anyone who influences (payment or not) an athlete toward a school (or schools), then that seems unenforceable. And indeed, this goes on everywhere and has been going on forever.
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bskeet said:
Anyone know case law precedent on a victim being tried as a perpetrator of the crime for which they were exonerated?
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Marco said:
HighEliteMajor said:
I’m trying to be respectful here. But you don’t understand what qualifies as proof. You seem to think there has to be a video, or a document that “convicts.”
So the perspective is considered, folks go to jail based on eyewitness testimony. The go to jail based on circumstantial evidence. You need to get past the opinion that there is no evidence.
For example -
TJ Gassnola testified under oath in a federal trial that he provided money to Preston and SDS. Testimony under oath is “proof.” Maybe not what you feel sufficient, but certainly sufficient in a court of law (and the low end stuff like NCAA enforcement). His level of credibility is extremely high because 1) Federal prosecutors put him on the stand in a high profile case, and 2) they would have vetted his claims related to his plea deal. Not to mention that his testimony helped lead to convictions, and his own actions led to a plea. KU presumably says they had no knowledge of it. So KU can’t deny it. KU undeniably sought Adidas’ help and intervention with recruits. The texting demonstrates that on its on, but that part isn’t denied anyway. Thus those actors, whom KU solicited for help, broke NCAA rules assisting KU in recruiting.
You also seem to think that because others are corrupt, KU can’t be punished. Don’t you think others have tutors that do the work for players like MU did? Or that booster give money to recruits like happened with BYU? They got punished, right?
The NCAA, like law enforcement, can only act on the info they have. Meaning, sure, others may be smuggling drugs but they don’t defer punishing those they catch because others are doing the same thing and not getting caught.
If you refuse to acknowledge or understand the above, I can’t help you.
As we sit here, we don’t know what the NCAA will do. I hope you’re right on the punishment. I fear a bad result. But I hope other factors weigh here and the NCAA wimps out (selfishly). I’ve felt from the start that if we get hammered, we should “burn it down.” That is, give the NCAA all the info we know on other schools, etc. Who knows, that might be going on behind closed doors. I would certainly, if I were KU, consider that negotiating strategy in advance to get a slap on the wrist.
I hear your every point, and - whatever the case may be the MCAA needs to weap
You are preaching to the choir, my man. I haven’t been to confession in years, and really don’t want to go.
I’m glad you’re now part of the choir because you were quite clear in your thoughts that the NCAA had nothing, not a “shred” of proof, “hearsay and innuendo”, etc. Anyway, this sucks for all of us.
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@Woodrow I hope it is an all out bloodbath.
If KU is “innocent”, then we need to fight to protect that. I see it playing out in court something like this:
NCAA Weasel: We use words like “honor,” “code,” “loyalty.” We use these words as the backbone of a life spent defending something. You use them as a punch line.
I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very freedom that I provide and then questions the manner in which I provide it.
I would rather that you just said “thank you” and went on your way. Otherwise, I suggest you pick up a weapon and stand the post. Either way, I don’t give a DAMN what you think you’re entitled to!
KU Lawyers: Did you order the Code Red?
NCAA Weasel: I did the job –
KU Lawyers: – Did you order the Code Red?!
NCAA Weasel: YOU’RE GOD DAMN RIGHT I DID!!! (Borrowed and slightly altered from “A Few Good Men”)
Summary: KU and Self are cleared of the charges, but found guilty of “conduct unbecoming” and ordered to be dishonorably discharged. (Vacate a couple of exhibition games)
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@nuleafjhawk I love this!!
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jhawk7782 said:
Meanwhile, North Carolina landed a commitment from five-star center Walker Kessler on Sunday night.
NCAA: No Academic Violations at UNC Ruling comes despite university’s finding that many athletes were for years enrolled in and passed courses they did not attend and that were not taught by anyone.
https://www.insidehighered.com/news/2017/10/16/breaking-ncaa-finds-no-academic-fraud-unc
I don’t buy into the “everyone else is doing it” excuse either but doesn’t it seem that the NCAA has always had double standards? Some schools seem immune to NCAA violations.
For the MILLIONTH time. The NCAA can not do ANYTHING about classes that a college accredits and offers to all students. UNC cheapened it’s university for sports, but not illegal.
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jhawk7782 said:
Meanwhile, North Carolina landed a commitment from five-star center Walker Kessler on Sunday night.
NCAA: No Academic Violations at UNC Ruling comes despite university’s finding that many athletes were for years enrolled in and passed courses they did not attend and that were not taught by anyone.
https://www.insidehighered.com/news/2017/10/16/breaking-ncaa-finds-no-academic-fraud-unc
I don’t buy into the “everyone else is doing it” excuse either but doesn’t it seem that the NCAA has always had double standards? Some schools seem immune to NCAA violations.
Here is your case for lack of institutional control. Here is your case proving institutional involvement! And just because the class is offered to non-athletes doesn’t excuse the AD from staying on top of their athletes’ classes. They should have realized these courses were not legit.
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jhawk7782 said:
@BeddieKU23 I don’t see how Bill Self can go on the recruiting trail until the NCAA makes a ruling. Too many uncertainties. Hopefully, this doesn’t become a prolonged fight in the courts.
I think he will continue to recruit as normal. He may go into situations knowing the result but I think you have to keep on it, especially with the future classes. Most programs have recovered quickly from the pits. Louisville and UNC are prime examples of that and their situations were a lot worse then this.
It will be interesting to see which route KU goes. How far does KU want to dig its feet into the sand and fight? To fight the booster designation placed on Gassnola it may require going to court.
Self will need legal counsel to fight the allegations against him separately since the penalties can result in a show-cause or termination.
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I see where Georgia Tech was banned from the 2019/2020 post season for “impermissable benefits”. A booster (former friend of Josh Pastner) provided money to recruits at a Gentleman’s Club. Now, THAT’S a booster!
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Duke did their investigation Hillary Clinton style
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@rockchalkwyo Please, no.
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The NCAA is so mad Wendell Carter went to dook they had to hammer Georgia Tech
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Cry me a river, Emmert. Apparently just allowing student atheltes to profit off their likeness is a bigger threat to college sports than systematic coverups of sexual assault (even against kids), academic fraud, coaches going to prison for bribery, etc. etc. etc. https://www.cbssports.com/college-football/news/ncaa-prez-calls-name-image-and-likeness-rights-an-existential-threat-to-college-sports/
Too complex to manage? Give me a break. If it’s that difficult, maybe let someone else run the show.
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The good ol boys club will never stop to amaze
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FarmerJayhawk said:
Cry me a river, Emmert. Apparently just allowing student atheltes to profit off their likeness is a bigger threat to college sports than systematic coverups of sexual assault (even against kids), academic fraud, coaches going to prison for bribery, etc. etc. etc. https://www.cbssports.com/college-football/news/ncaa-prez-calls-name-image-and-likeness-rights-an-existential-threat-to-college-sports/
Too complex to manage? Give me a break. If it’s that difficult, maybe let someone else run the show.
Also though, according to his own words, only like one or two players each year would make any money.
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He is so out of touch with reality he is the perfect sham for the job for them
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Kcmatt7 said:
FarmerJayhawk said:
Cry me a river, Emmert. Apparently just allowing student atheltes to profit off their likeness is a bigger threat to college sports than systematic coverups of sexual assault (even against kids), academic fraud, coaches going to prison for bribery, etc. etc. etc. https://www.cbssports.com/college-football/news/ncaa-prez-calls-name-image-and-likeness-rights-an-existential-threat-to-college-sports/
Too complex to manage? Give me a break. If it’s that difficult, maybe let someone else run the show.
Also though, according to his own words, only like one or two players each year would make any money.
In his eyes only the NCAA can make money off college athletes. Oh, and himself. To the tune of $3 million last year. Money for me but not for thee.
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If this doesn’t make you want to blow your brains out… Literally the only schools with notices so far are Adidas schools. With, and you can’t make this shit up, Auburn, Arizona and Oklahoma State (schools who had coaches convicted in this probe) not expected to see any allegations until 2020 at the earliest.
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Sorry, but I think that we are going to get hit hard, the NCAA is trying to find a blue blood school that they can make an example out of, and we just happened to be the one. They will never go after one of the blue bloods that are sponsored by Nike ( North Carolina, Duke, or Kentucky ). Really sad…
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By the way - this is all my fault. I made a snide remark a while back that we should 86 the basketball program and concentrate all our efforts on football. The NCAA is helping me accomplish that. Sorry.
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Kcmatt7 said:
FarmerJayhawk said:
Cry me a river, Emmert. Apparently just allowing student atheltes to profit off their likeness is a bigger threat to college sports than systematic coverups of sexual assault (even against kids), academic fraud, coaches going to prison for bribery, etc. etc. etc. https://www.cbssports.com/college-football/news/ncaa-prez-calls-name-image-and-likeness-rights-an-existential-threat-to-college-sports/
Too complex to manage? Give me a break. If it’s that difficult, maybe let someone else run the show.
Also though, according to his own words, only like one or two players each year would make any money.
By Emmert’s own admission, only a few players will actually make any significant money. So, I wonder what’s the NCAA’s big concern if almost every player makes insignificant money? They seem to downplay the importance of this while at the same time calling it an existential threat. Which is it?
But, if the NCAA is unable to manage in a world where states make their own legislation, then wouldn’t that mean the NCAA is lacking in requisite institutional oversight?
That sounds like a familiar tune.
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Jeff Long already on the defense.
“I can really kind of repeat what we said in our statement,” Long began on the show. “You know, we simply disagree with the facts as the NCAA believes them to be. We see the facts that they have. We arrive at a very different conclusion then they do. We support coach [Bill] Self. We believe in the way he runs our program and the way our coaches conduct our program. So we now have our 90 days to provide a response to each one of those seven allegations. We are very well prepared to do that.”
“We will provide a very substantial response to those allegations, and I do think in the end that we will be successful in defending ourselves, defending our reputation and defending our actions,” Long said. “So our fans will have to be patient with us because we’re going to be in this period of time when we can’t talk about details. Bill Self is going to be asked at every press conference he’s at. Bill Self won’t be able to comment on those things. We’ve got to let the process play its way out. We’ve said what we can say and the NCAA actually has a rule against us speaking out publicly so if we’re not careful we could have another violation and we’re not going to do that. So be patient.”
“During this time, you know, people will be saying a lot of things about Kansas, but I hope our Kansas fans know we run our program with honesty and integrity and each and every one of you can be proud with how we conduct our program, the student athletes in our program,” Long said. “I assure you that if we’ve made mistakes, we’ll correct them and move on. But I guarantee you we’re running our program the right way.”
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@BeddieKU23 The last two sentences were the most important.
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“I assure you that if we’ve made mistakes, we’ll correct them and move on.” — This is the FIRST acknowledgment of any possible wrongdoing I have seen. Has anyone seen anything else? A KU official mentioning “mistakes.”
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“But I guarantee you we’re running our program the right way." — This is present tense, not past tense. I think that is significant.
I also saw the words “honesty and integrity” used together again. Not sure we’ll ever know what he means by that. Except that he used the words “we” – that includes him (Long), and did not use past tense.
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Out of curiosity would you (anyone) buy a product that a player is hocking out of a KU uniform? I assume they can’t show a Jayhawk in the advertisement, so how recognizable are they outside of the local market? Other than Jayhawks, I’d recognize the QB from Clemson out of uniform, but not many other kids. Am I the minority?
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@dylans You wouldn’t recognize him if he got a haircut. Sunshine…
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@dylans I don’t think you’re in the minority. I don’t think a player’s image without the uniform would be all that marketable so I’m not sure this would be that much of a windfall.
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The ones that are marketable should go pro. “College” sports are done. Let them all go pro so in twenty years we can listen to the same media cry about all the ex-players with no money and no education.
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@dylans @bcjayhawk Bingo. This is what I’ve been focused on (among other things) for quite some time. It is the jersey, the uniform, the school, the program, and everything that goes with it that makes CBB and CFB what it is. Otherwise, they’re A, AA and AAA baseball players (but for just a few). The colleges are the marketable product. THE PLAYERS ARE INTERCHANGEABLE AT THIS LEVEL.
But we know what will happen. If they do this “marketing of their image”, it will be so unfair that the players can’t use the colleges’ images (logo, etc). They’ll complain about that.
Of course, it creates yet another massive enforcement headache and will change the college sports, lurching college sports further away from what we love.
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The NCAA needs to set forth specific reasons and ways a player can earn extra money that may not have been permissable before. Letting a kid do an autograph signing somewhere and putting a cap on number of appearances, time, and price they can be there. Allowing players to auction off jersey’s and putting a cap on how much a player can make up front and putting the rest in a trust that can only be accessed once the player runs out of eligibility whether that’s because they turned pro or graduated. If they drop and do neither and have eligibility because of that, they can’t touch the money. Allowing EA Sports to make NCAA video games again and giving each player $500-1000 similar to a class action settlement. Make that moment be based off of projected sales.
Some of these ideas would need to be fleshed out more and given more specific details or tweaked, but these are simple ideas that cause a lot of issues for programs when they come to light that really should be changed by the NCAA.
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@Texas-Hawk-10 If you’re going that route, you’re right. But everyone who supports this concept should really rethink it. More rules. More enforcement. Enforcement is much, much tougher as there are shades of grey – meaning as you move from nothing to something.
But really, the “why not” is easier than just more rules – the same folks that want this will always want more. Some simple, common sense rules as mentioned above won’t be good enough. It will never stop. WE KNOW THAT. The rules set by the NCAA will always be unjust to those with that mindset. “Look at what the NCAA brings in” will always be the mantra. Profiting off the athlete be continue to cause incessant whining (no matter how illogical). The revenue point will always be way too high for some, compared to what the athlete (student-athlete) receives.
Many folks want the CBB and CFB model destroyed. So it will never be enough.
The easiest and better thing to do is just say no. Nothing. Period. This is the gamble the NCAA needs to take. Nothing. Don’t come. Don’t play.
And guess what? They’ll still come. And they’ll still play.
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The thing is, the market would be mostly local.
Other than Mahomes, Kelce and maybe a couple of others, how many Chiefs players would you recognize out of uniform? How many Royals other than Gordon, Perez and Merrifield? How many Sporting KC guys?
But there are pros in local ads all the time even though I guarantee most people wouldn’t recognize Sammy Watkins or Danny Duffy outside the KC area. This would allow them to advertise for the local car dealership or whatever. They could sign and sell autographs. That’s about it.
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HighEliteMajor said:
@dylans @bcjayhawk Bingo. This is what I’ve been focused on (among other things) for quite some time. It is the jersey, the uniform, the school, the program, and everything that goes with it that makes CBB and CFB what it is. Otherwise, they’re A, AA and AAA baseball players (but for just a few). The colleges are the marketable product. THE PLAYERS ARE INTERCHANGEABLE AT THIS LEVEL.
But we know what will happen. If they do this “marketing of their image”, it will be so unfair that the players can’t use the colleges’ images (logo, etc). They’ll complain about that.
Of course, it creates yet another massive enforcement headache and will change the college sports, lurching college sports further away from what we love.
I’ll buy in to the point that the college has a brand, but I have to disagree with suggestion that the players are interchangeable. If they were interchangeable, then why do we get so worked up about recruits? I don’t think it’s a common belief that Zion was interchangeable nor unrecognizable.
There are plenty of players that fans would recognize in plain clothes when they were playing at KU – Frank Mason, Andrew Wiggins are the most obvious… and I think Doke would be pretty easy to recognize in pretty much any crowded room.
Also, I think every Iowa State fan could have recognized Elijah Johnson during his senior year.
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@bskeet I think they are totally interchangeable. They have to be. Every 5 years it’s total turnover. Every year has a new 1 recruit. Every year has 40-50 guys getting drafted. Every year a kid gets hyped up. Every 5-10 years you get a Zion/Wiggins/LeBron level of hype. Every year KU has a nearly full roster after losing guys.
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I don’t watch much sports avidly anymore, but quiz me on 90s baseball players and I’m ok. I don’t watch much NBA, but of the nearly 500 nba players I could recognize around 40 guys. Of the 4500 ncaa basketball players I’d be lucky to recognize 5 non-KU players. NFL guys are kinda screwed playing behind a helmet. Names sure, faces no way. Same for ncaa football. I’d recognize one guy this season (so far) - no KU players.
That’s another thing about ncaa basketball. The coaches are the most recognizable and stable things. Therefore the most marketable. I don’t think this creates much legit income (I may be wrong) but I do think it creates an oversight nightmare. It’s already pretty easy to pay recruits (unless you’re a dumbass adidas guy) this will be the Wild West. I’m kinda excited, KU is one of the big boys, it’s the little guys that will be absolutely screwed. I mean the competitive imbalance will be ridiculous. 14 in a row will be a short streak under those rules. Bring it!
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dylans said:
@bskeet I think they are totally interchangeable. They have to be. Every 5 years it’s total turnover. Every year has a new 1 recruit. Every year has 40-50 guys getting drafted. Every year a kid gets hyped up. Every 5-10 years you get a Zion/Wiggins/LeBron level of hype. Every year KU has a nearly full roster after losing guys.
Right. It’s proven already that the parts are interchangeable. That’s the system as it exists. Constant roster turnover.
@BSkeet I don’t suggest players are unrecognizable, just interchangeable. From Collins, to TT, to EJ, to Tharpe, to Mason, to Graham, to Dotson. 10 seasons, seven PGs. There are better players in the D-league. But no packed arenas, no massive team gear sales, no big TV contracts, no sports center highlights, etc.
