Vick Coming Back
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Sounds to me like Vick had absolutely nowhere to go and he’s completely at Self’s mercy. This is a win-win situation for Self and Vick if there ever was one.
But it does have the stinch of the Bagley/Carter scenario. Biggest difference is there aren’t any potential lottery picks vying for the same PT as Vick.
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I am sure you meant a 180 degree turn from last year. BTW, he needs 12 credit hours AFTER Summer school which is pretty dang good.
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A couple things on this.
-Vick will have to earn everything. From his number to minutes to looks.
-If it doesn’t work, he’s gone. Degree or not. Nobody really knows how far away from a degree he is. That’s a FERPA violation. These things absolutely don’t leak in any concrete way. Anyone who says they know is party to a crime.
-From a basketball standpoint, this is a low risk, high reward play. I think we end up with a small guard, Grimes, Vick, Lawson, Doke playing most of the minutes.
-Along those lines, averages will be stupid. Anyone who cites an average without context doesn’t understand basketball. Ignore them. Look at who plays against different teams that play different styles. Yeah, it’ll take some work but none of you want to come across as morons, right?
-1-13, it’s the most talented squad in the country. Not sure anyone is that close. However, people don’t play 13. We’ll only play 9 at most: Moore, Dotson, Grimes, Vick, Garrett, Lawson, Lawson, Silvio, Doke.
-Vick “should” be better this season for a couple reasons. He’ll be able to plan exclusively as a guard/wing and has every incentive to do those things well plus be a good teammate. He immediately adds shooting and defensive ability. Otherwise he won’t play.
-Holy s#!+ we’re loaded.
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Vick is the difference between a paper team and a real one.
Back when Brown found him, he was a future PG; then Self put him through the play-out-of-position at the 2-3 for 3 years. Board rats forget he is really a PG. Like Devonte and Tyshawn he is primed for a great 4th season at the point, after serving as domestique at the 2.
Vick at point would be cruel MUA most games!
Self will probably start out playing him as a sixth man at all perimeter positions to show Grimes and Dotson they aren’t ready.
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jaybate 1.0 said:
Vick is the difference between a paper team and a real one.
Back when Brown found him, he was a future PG; then Self put him through the play-out-of-position at the 2-3 for 3 years. Board rats forget he is really a PG. Like Devonte and Tyshawn he is primed for a great 4th season at the point, after serving as domestique at the 2.
Vick at point would be cruel MUA most games!
Self will probably start out playing him as a sixth man at all perimeter positions to show Grimes and Dotson they aren’t ready.
Vick was never considered a PG. He was recruited as a 2/wing.
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I’m happy. Him leaving was strange the way it went down. We’re loaded.
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@BShark Nice edit…lol.
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@FarmerJayhawk I’m not trying to be confrontational, but the 12 hours remaining for Vick to graduate was a quote from Self that was published on KUSPORTS: "After the summer session, Vick will be just 12 hours shy of graduating, Self said."Perhaps I am ignorant, but I wouldn’t think it would make any of us guilty of any crime by quoting what our head coach said.
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@BShark I never thought Vick had the handles to play point. Just my opinion.
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There’s an empty seat at scorer’s table. Life is a good.
Two months ago we had lost all five starters. The Board was expressing nervousness. The continuation of The Streak looked weak.
Today we have 40% of the starters returning. The Board is on board and happy and supportive. The Team has been Tweeked, The Streak may peak.
Does it get any better than this in the off season? RCJHK!
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Who else votes to skip the football season and just start our D1 basketball season in August? For the first time ever, I’m thinking basketball in the summer, not KU football. I’ve got our starters as Dok, Dedric, Vick, Grimes and a PG to be determined by fall practice. If KJ or someone else beats Vick for the start at the 3 fine, but until then Vick’s my guy. Vick’s big game experience is going to be important early in the season, i,e, Michigan State. Another season of leaving the opponents open-mouthed on defense when Vick slips along the baseline for another backdoor jam. Grimes showed during the FIBA tournament that he looks to pass to his teammates, so I expect to see Grimes getting many assists to Vick. By the way, Coach Self successfully juggled playing time for the U18 team that was loaded with talent. I did think he took advantage of the situation and played Grimes, Robinson-Earl and Hurt together a lot. RCJHB 2018-19
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@stoptheflop Man oh man, I like the way you think.
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Just for discussion purposes… Anyone see this as possibly being a negative. Vick played 30-35 minutes a game last year had the green light and everything. Now he’s walking into a situation where he will get let’s say 20 minutes a game and his shot selection will have to change as well as his defensive intensity / effort. I could easily see a situation where Vick gets into the season and becomes a “bad seed” ( for lack of better term) in the locker room.
I know most think this could only be a positive but I’m not sold on that. Chemistry is a huge X factor when trying to cut nets down.
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@Woodrow No, because Self laid out a bunch of conditions for Vick to return and if Vick doesn’t meet those conditions, Self will boot him off the team.
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@Woodrow I actually see it as more the opposite. A guy who was ushered to the door. Who now has come back on the coach’s terms. Who sees that he needs to perform on the court and in the locker room to get what he wants. It’s as moment that forges maturity — or as @Texas-Hawk-10 said, he’s gone. I think this is a “trust Self” moment.
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@Woodrow Coach Self knows his players better than any of us and I trust he took all of Vick’s traits into account when he invited him back to the team. I like Vick and like that he will continue to be the third or fourth scoring option when he’s on the court, even with our much younger personnel. Dedric, Grimes, Dok and PG will be the offensive focus, with Vick positioning himself for the open 3 or a pass at the rim. Brilliant, just brilliant. Coach likely has a plan for Vick to work on the skills that the NBA found deficient. Vick will be the icing flower on the birthday cake that everyone keeps eyeing.
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I posted before that it would be difficult to pass on a good 3 point shooter and a starter that played over 30 mpg on the team that made it to the Final Four. I also posted that if he comes back he will be on a short leash which also appears to be true.
More to your point, worst case scenario, he gets suspended from the team but stays in school and graduates in December since he will need only 12 credit after Summer school, something I am sure Coach Self has taken into consideration. Best case, he explodes and leads KU to a National title and plays himself into the draft with a real chance this go around and a fresh college degree to boot. Not that much and an easily mitigable risk and potentially a big reward.
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KUSTEVE said:
@FarmerJayhawk I’m not trying to be confrontational, but the 12 hours remaining for Vick to graduate was a quote from Self that was published on KUSPORTS: "After the summer session, Vick will be just 12 hours shy of graduating, Self said."Perhaps I am ignorant, but I wouldn’t think it would make any of us guilty of any crime by quoting what our head coach said.
Oh yeah, my mistake. That’s what I get for skimming after one too many last night haha
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@stoptheflop na, I’m voting no – Call me a sadist I guess , go ahead tell me I am - -it’s ok but I still want my football Season I’m just an overall College sports junkie. I’ll back my teams no matter how bad it gets.
Please don’t think I’m trying to insinuate this about you or anyone here but like I say I’ll back my teams no matter what if they are really good OR really bad that’s a true fan - not a closet bandwagon fan who wants to cheer when a team is only good.
Again I am for sure not saying your that way or anyone here is that way BUT there are people that ARE that way -I have no time for them .Maybe that’s why I look forward to the basketball season every year cause I know we will ALWAYS compete and challenge. - -Yet I love my College football I’ll be right there either at the home games every Saturday or at home watching the boys on TV or listening on the radio - -I’ll still be there.
A perfect example of what I’m talking about. The year that little pig school - -K- Straight - you know the one. - -President Nixon’s favorite High School.- -Anyways the year they finally broke our streak of straight wins at Allen Filed House West - -what was it 22? - -23? - Well that year when they beat us - all the little mice ran to their closets - - -foot lockers brush the moth balls off that store musty K-Straight gear put them on thumped their little mousy chests talking all kinds of smack. - -I just laughed said year strut your shit - beat your little purple chest cause it will be another 23 years before you can do it again lmao. - -THAT’S what I’m talking about, cause the following year they had to scurry and put their gear back away when we whupped their ass again. - THAT’S the true definition of a CLOSET FAN - -BANDWAGON FAN
So yes please I’ll go ahead and struggle through football but let me watch them play it out please - -good ol College Junkie lol - -OR Sadist - whichever lol. - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
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I’ll watch it too. Go to a few games, those kids work hard too. I have a few favorites.
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@HighEliteMajor “I think this is a “trust Self” moment.”
I am very impressed with how many of these you have been finding. You changing the colors of your lenses?
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This is one of those “Self moments.” This is one more action showing Self has his players’ back. He pretty much wrote off Vick, and not just because Vick announced he was leaving. Vick didn’t seem to relate to Self last year… we all saw that. Not only did Vick hurt himself, he hurt his teammates because he wasn’t playing anywhere near his capabilities.
I’m optimistic about this move, and I’m glad to see our last scholarship go to Vick. Yes… he didn’t step up last year. But he’s young and young players often need time to sort themselves out. Vick really didn’t need to sort his game out much, it was mostly himself that needed the help!
As much as Self wants to help his players, I don’t think he would have taken back Vick if he didn’t feel very sure that Vick was 100% reformed!
I’m pretty sure I have an idea on how Self left things with Vick when he left. Self told him what he would need from him if he wanted to come back. What he needed from Vick was for Vick to grow up considerably. A tiny taste of the big world outside of the fairytale of Lawrence, along with the harsh reality that he hasn’t created a solid path to make a living in basketball yet surely helped Vick see the light.
This may be the news that will help us make the Final Four two years in a row! Who knows?! But I have faith in Self that he is bringing Vick back under the right conditions.
We will be looking for offense this coming year, especially from trey. If Vick really gets near his capabilities, he could very well lead the team in scoring!
Welcome back, Vick!
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@jayballer73 I’ll come around a little bit when fall practice starts and we start getting some new information. I just feel sorry for our football players who put their hearts and souls into practices and games and get very little in return. Seeing less than 10,000 fans in Memorial Stadium is heartbreaking. I’m glad you still support the football team. I’ll try to be a better fan and find something to be positive about.
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@drgnslayr I also don’t think self would have him back if the team didn’t want him back
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@mayjay Not at all, still clear as I can get them. As I’ve always said, wouldn’t trade him for any other coach in the country. Ah, but when the bullets start flyin’ around here, reminders of comments past are fleeting.
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@jayballer73 Me too! You know what I’m most excited about??? The UNIFORMS!! How many combos can we have? Red helmet, blue jersey, blue pants?? No, no wait … White helmet, red jersey, white pants??? But that’s not the best. Blue helmet, white jersey, white pants! A big WOW is all I can say!!! It is so unbelievably incredible!! Every weekend, something new! Metallic? I’m in!!!
Sorry, just shoot me now.
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Alright KU fans, I heard about Vick coming back yesterday and I was, to be honest, kind of dreading it. I didn’t want him to come back after he had left the program. I still feel like he might screw up the chemistry of the team. The jury is still out on that. But, having read the quotes and the posts on here I think it could be a good thing. If Vick plays ball, so to speak, on and off the court and fully buys into what Self wants, this team will be so deep and so talented from the first tip of the first game until the end of the season. Im not predicting anything but it is not out of the realm of possibility that we could see another final four in '19.
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HighEliteMajor said:
@jayballer73 Me too! You know what I’m most excited about??? The UNIFORMS!! How many combos can we have? Red helmet, blue jersey, blue pants?? No, no wait … White helmet, red jersey, white pants??? But that’s not the best. Blue helmet, white jersey, white pants! A big WOW is all I can say!!! It is so unbelievably incredible!! Every weekend, something new! Metallic? I’m in!!!
Sorry, just shoot me now.
Na I said call me a sadist - -not sadistic lol - - Besides I need to save my bullets for important things - - whoaaaaaa who the hell said that lol. - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
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@jayballer73 I used to really look forward to FB season … now I dread it. It’s beyond bad. Someone deliver us from our unique version of purgatory …
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As far as this whole Vick thing , thing is If Coach Self is willing to give him a 2nd - -3rd chance then so am I. - I fully trust in Coach - -not that it matters my voice isn’t squat - they don’t ask my opinion and smart not to - -cause I’m wrong - - wrong a lot - -but if he is willing to allow him back then I 'm good with it.
The way I see this , I’m far from perfect, I know I’ve made mistakes through my life. I done wrong at times especially during early years I’m sure just about everyone here at one point and time has -I’m sure that just about everyone here has at one point slacked whether it be at work - - or younger at school work - -or in some kind of practice - -point is we all make mistakes throughout our lives - thank GOD for the land of opportunity forgiveness and 2nd chances. - Last time I knew their was only one perfect person and he isn’t walking this earth right now. - -So I’m good with Vick coming back
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HighEliteMajor said:
@jayballer73 I used to really look forward to FB season … now I dread it. It’s beyond bad. Someone deliver us from our unique version of purgatory …
Ya I understand - - it’s hard and frustrating for me at times - -but I can’t give up
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I don’t think KJ can beat out Vick. I think it’s going to be Charlie/Grimes/Vick/Dedric/Doke at the beginning of the season, with Dotson moving into Charlie’s spot as Dotson gets his sea legs under him. Our 2nd team would be at least a Sweet 16 team…geez. For all the criticism Bill took last year for leaving his roster short with the transfers, it sure looks pretty ingenious now.
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@KUSTEVE Imagine if he convinces 3 players to redshirt…
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Kcmatt7 said:
@KUSTEVE Imagine if he convinces 3 players to redshirt…
I don’t think they want to tie up scholarships that long, but it would be crazy.
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@BShark probably not, but it would also give them a chance to grad transfer later if we decided it was time to move on.
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Found a pretty decent article written by Matt Tait today , Was talking about Vick’s return , and there was at one point where he pretty much echoed what I said after I heard about Vick’s return. he said:
" Even with his experience not so sure that it’s a given you just plug him in automatically in the starting line up.- He was saying so many people just wanting to automatically throw him in. - but he is not so sure- -( this is what I’ve been trying to say.) Matt says if he EARNS the spot through hard work and good attitude THEN it will be hard to keep him out of the starting line up. BUT Matt says he doesn’t get the sense that his experience and Veteran status will be enough to compel Coach Self to make him a starter automatically for the get go’ Something I’ve said - -I just don’t think Vick just struts in and just BAM automatically takes his spot back with out earning it he is going to have to beat others out - -only right.
Matt says he is going to have to win the job and part of winning the job is going to be directly tied to his attitude and commitment in PRACTICE along on how he handles himself away from the basketball side of things.
Pretty much I’ve been telling others - Vick has a long road ahead of him- He has to prove this was a good decision - - come compete - -battle and have his head on right , at all times - if he does he could have a monster season
Then on another note , they was talking about red shirt possibilities for the up coming season and I guess Agbaji told reporters while working the camp at Washburn that he would be open to red shirting this season. - -he said I’d be fine with it , Anything I can do to help the program and better myself. - Sounds like a pretty level headed kid - - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
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BShark said:
jaybate 1.0 said:
Vick is the difference between a paper team and a real one.
Back when Brown found him, he was a future PG; then Self put him through the play-out-of-position at the 2-3 for 3 years. Board rats forget he is really a PG. Like Devonte and Tyshawn he is primed for a great 4th season at the point, after serving as domestique at the 2.
Vick at point would be cruel MUA most games!
Self will probably start out playing him as a sixth man at all perimeter positions to show Grimes and Dotson they aren’t ready.
Vick was never considered a PG. He was recruited as a 2/wing.
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Evidence please.
Next.
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jaybate 1.0 said:
BShark said:
jaybate 1.0 said:
Vick is the difference between a paper team and a real one.
Back when Brown found him, he was a future PG; then Self put him through the play-out-of-position at the 2-3 for 3 years. Board rats forget he is really a PG. Like Devonte and Tyshawn he is primed for a great 4th season at the point, after serving as domestique at the 2.
Vick at point would be cruel MUA most games!
Self will probably start out playing him as a sixth man at all perimeter positions to show Grimes and Dotson they aren’t ready.
Vick was never considered a PG. He was recruited as a 2/wing.
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Evidence please.
Next.
Man, you’re too smart to give me such an easy one. KU announced him as a 2 when he signed. https://kuathletics.com/news/2015/6/2/MBB_0602155530.aspx
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jaybate 1.0 said:
BShark said:
jaybate 1.0 said:
Vick is the difference between a paper team and a real one.
Back when Brown found him, he was a future PG; then Self put him through the play-out-of-position at the 2-3 for 3 years. Board rats forget he is really a PG. Like Devonte and Tyshawn he is primed for a great 4th season at the point, after serving as domestique at the 2.
Vick at point would be cruel MUA most games!
Self will probably start out playing him as a sixth man at all perimeter positions to show Grimes and Dotson they aren’t ready.
Vick was never considered a PG. He was recruited as a 2/wing.
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Evidence please.
Next.
Every article and recruiting service and mention of him. I challenge you to find a single article or quote from Self calling him a PG.
I’ll humor you though.
https://n.rivals.com/content/prospects/2015/lagerald-vick-6055
https://247sports.com/Player/Lagerald-Vick-75845//high-school-130051
http://www.espn.com/college-sports/basketball/recruiting/player/_/id/202794/lagerald-vick
https://www.kansascity.com/sports/college/big-12/university-of-kansas/article22932219.html
https://www.si.com/college-basketball/2015/06/02/lagerald-vick-kansas-recruiting-2015-reclassifies
http://www2.kusports.com/news/2015/may/17/lagerald-vick-commits-kansas/
Here is even an article from when he committed to SMU: https://smu.rivals.com/news/breaking-3-star-sg-lagerald-vick-commits-to-smu-reclassifies-to-2016-free
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@jaybate-1.0 Did you see Vick’s handles last year, worse than EJ’s who was listed as a PG coming out of HS. Vick was also listed as a shooting guard by every major recruiting service. Are you saying that all the recruiting sites were lying to everyone about what position Vick played because the evidence sure doesn’t point that way.
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Vick gives KU the option to go big or small now because you have another guy that can play multiple positions.
Grimes can slide over to the point and you go big with Grimes, Vick, KJ, Dedric and Doke. Also, that lineup is nasty.
You can go small with Dotson, Grimes, Vick, KJ and Dedric. That could be a starting lineup.
You can mix and match (Moore, Dotson, Vick, Dedric, Big Dave) or go super small (Moore, Dotson, Grimes, Vick, KJ) if a team ever trots out a lineup with five perimeter oriented players. Just lots of flexibility with Vick here.
I am guessing part of Self’s conversation with him was that he won’t be a starter this year. Grimes is the superior player, and KJ makes a lot of lineups work with his defensive potential. Vick returns to being a role player off the bench, where he could reach his full potential.
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@justanotherfan Isn’t Dok a guaranteed starter? Coach Self sure seems to like Dok as a starter. Dok was starting as a very raw freshman until he got hurt.
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stoptheflop said:
@justanotherfan Isn’t Dok a guaranteed starter? Coach Self sure seems to like Dok as a starter. Dok was starting as a very raw freshman until he got hurt.
This is the first time Self has had options.
That said, I think Doke starts.
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Hell ya Doke starts. zero chance he doesn’t.
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@jaybate-1-0 @BShark @Texas-Hawk-10 - October 1, 2017 "Of Vick, KU coach Bill Self said: ‘He can do a lot of things. His stroke has gotten a lot better. Legerald can play point guard I think because he’s so fast and he’s a good ball handler. He’s not a point guard but he can certainly take pressure off guys when Devonte is not in the game.’ "
So Self did mention him at point guard. A mention.
Very interesting to hear Self before last season … "“There’s a lot of things to like about this game,” added Self, who said Vick has been KU’s best player “from maybe the beginning of the summer (to now).”
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@HighEliteMajor Preseason fluff as it turns out. Which…is why I do want to see Dedric in action at this level. It is a mention though, which was my only qualifier. I mean, kind of a mention? Self also very firmly states Vick isn’t a PG.
I feel there is much more evidence that Vick is simply not a PG. If he were capable, Self would play him at that spot. Also lots of empirical evidence.
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Interesting…
Soren Petro Verified account @SorenPetro
JESSE NEWELL: Some Kansas players were told a couple of months ago that Vick was gone. Now they’re stuck there. There could be a couple guys on the team that wish they could go elsewhere now.
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@BShark I was much more interested in the discussions about Vick heading into last season. He was my pick to be our best player last season. I think this could be a huge game changer having him back.
I was just pointing out the “mention.”
