Reasons to believe in next year’s team
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Hunter also would be the main PG at Texas, wouldn’t be here.
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@BShark got it thanks for the info and I wish you were with regards to the roster and maybe pushing someone out the door lol Bill gettin’ soft! Haha jk
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@FarmerJayhawk do you agree with this?
I don’t because Hunter is better than Juan so why not take him and make Juan the backup? I’m confused why the hang up and holding a clearly better player back so Juan can play pg. Juan is a great teammate whether starting or off the bench he will stay positive he’s a great kid.
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@kuballin10 it’s hard to disagree since we just won a title with him at PG. I’d play them both together: Harris Hunter McCullar Wilson Clemence. Rotate in Rice and Dick. Not to say Hunter would be off the ball all the time. Remy played on the ball quite a bit when he and Juan were on the floor.
I don’t think the frosh are ready to roll major minutes right away. Over the last couple years (definitely since covid made HS and travel ball sparse at times) freshmen are less prepared than they’ve been in a long time. You won’t find many 20-50 ranked dudes who played a lot for tournament teams. And 2022 isn’t a super strong class either. Especially with college players as old as they are with the extra year, it’s tough for a rook to break in. So I think Dick is best suited as a shooter off the bench, and Rice as a 6th man/swing player. Hunter is one of the few guys in that range who came in and was great right away. Sure hasn’t been the norm.
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Not sure if this is on another thread but Hunter goes to Texas
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@wissox said in Reasons to believe in next year’s team:
Not sure if this is on another thread but Hunter goes to Texas
Looking more and more like McCullar, huh.
Whatever happened to that smaller school Missouri dude?
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@rockchalkjayhawk said in Reasons to believe in next year’s team:
@wissox said in Reasons to believe in next year’s team:
Not sure if this is on another thread but Hunter goes to Texas
Looking more and more like McCullar, huh.
Whatever happened to that smaller school Missouri dude?
Headed to MS State it appears. I’m befuddled by the lack of announcement.
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@rockchalkjayhawk said in Reasons to believe in next year’s team:
@wissox said in Reasons to believe in next year’s team:
Not sure if this is on another thread but Hunter goes to Texas
Looking more and more like McCullar, huh.
Whatever happened to that smaller school Missouri dude?
McCullar did announce for KU if you missed it. Self strongly preferred him over Mosley (said dude).
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@FarmerJayhawk said in Reasons to believe in next year’s team:
@rockchalkjayhawk said in Reasons to believe in next year’s team:
@wissox said in Reasons to believe in next year’s team:
Not sure if this is on another thread but Hunter goes to Texas
Looking more and more like McCullar, huh.
Whatever happened to that smaller school Missouri dude?
Headed to MS State it appears. I’m befuddled by the lack of announcement.
I mean, would you WANT to go to Starkville?
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@BShark said in Reasons to believe in next year’s team:
@FarmerJayhawk said in Reasons to believe in next year’s team:
@rockchalkjayhawk said in Reasons to believe in next year’s team:
@wissox said in Reasons to believe in next year’s team:
Not sure if this is on another thread but Hunter goes to Texas
Looking more and more like McCullar, huh.
Whatever happened to that smaller school Missouri dude?
Headed to MS State it appears. I’m befuddled by the lack of announcement.
I mean, would you WANT to go to Starkville?
Might be spelled $$$$tarkville….
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@BShark said in Reasons to believe in next year’s team:
@FarmerJayhawk said in Reasons to believe in next year’s team:
@rockchalkjayhawk said in Reasons to believe in next year’s team:
@wissox said in Reasons to believe in next year’s team:
Not sure if this is on another thread but Hunter goes to Texas
Looking more and more like McCullar, huh.
Whatever happened to that smaller school Missouri dude?
Headed to MS State it appears. I’m befuddled by the lack of announcement.
I mean, would you WANT to go to Starkville?
I heard it was Stackville.
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@BShark said in Reasons to believe in next year’s team:
@FarmerJayhawk said in Reasons to believe in next year’s team:
@rockchalkjayhawk said in Reasons to believe in next year’s team:
@wissox said in Reasons to believe in next year’s team:
Not sure if this is on another thread but Hunter goes to Texas
Looking more and more like McCullar, huh.
Whatever happened to that smaller school Missouri dude?
Headed to MS State it appears. I’m befuddled by the lack of announcement.
I mean, would you WANT to go to Starkville?
I lived in the South for a few years. i did my time. Bassackwards.
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@Gorilla72 His first choice was Kansas. As Farmer noted it is interesting that he seems to be putting off the announcement… It was supposed to be today.
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We won the title because of Remy’s contribution way more than Juan’s. It worked because Juan played the proper minutes. Without Remy (or a scorer like Hunter) we lose to Creighton or Providence
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@kuballin10 not my point at all. I said we won a title with Harris at PG. And he’s not getting benched.
Juan will be the main PG, that’s just a fact. My point is I’d play Hunter with him because it gives you your best 5 out there. He still played 25 MPG in the tournament. I’d bump him to the 28-30ish number next year. He played so much last year because Remy and Bobby were hurt. Non-con he was only at 27 MPG.
Say we get Ramey instead. He’s also a really good defender and can handle it. I’m still not benching Harris for an unprepared freshman. Harris Ramey McCullar Wilson Clemence. That’s plenty of offense. Absolutely killer without the ball, and has enough shooting. Won’t be a great strength but enough. Dick can snipe off the bench. This lineup is so versatile because you can rotate PGs and switch between PG and 3 wings and 2 PGs 2 wings.
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Juan is a floor general. A facilitator. Self loves that. Mason and Graham had to prove they could do that before they became the potent offensive weapons as seniors.
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Juan is a champion, the best floor there is. Now lets see him grow to his ceiling.
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@approxinfinity If Juan plays a full season like the Nova game he’s a stud.
Shoot 500 three’s a day and another 500 floaters!
@FarmerJayhawk you still noted it so felt compelled to comment. It’s like say Peyton’s last year winning a super bowl or an average qb winning it all because of the team.
Dave, Remy, Och, Braun, Wilson carried us and mainly Remy in crucial games. Juan’s D contributed mightily but his reduction in minutes allowed the title.
He will start but monitoring his minutes is important.
You think we get Ramey? Watched some highlights of him and he’s a solid 2. Better shooter than Hunter and honestly in our offense he would be great alongside Juan.
Defensively and ability to drive how is Ramey per staff? Seems they wanted Hunter but would be happy with Ramey.
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@bskeet agree and wish it wasn’t exactly this way!
Wiggins/Embid team used tharpe then frankamp when we had Frank there…
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@kuballin10 Juan is lightyears better than Naadir or Frankamp.
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I dont think of Tharpe or Frankamp as floor generals at all. I thought of them as score first PGs who were mediocre at best at running the offense and not good on D either. I think of Russ Rob as a better comp for Juan.
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@approxinfinity said in Reasons to believe in next year’s team:
@kuballin10 Juan is lightyears better than Naadir or Frankamp.
BY FAR - -not even in the same ballpark
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@approxinfinity said in Reasons to believe in next year’s team:
I think of Russ Rob as a better comp for Juan.
yes… And maybe Sherron.
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@approxinfinity said in Reasons to believe in next year’s team:
@kuballin10 Juan is lightyears better than Naadir or Frankamp.
LOL. Comparing Juan to Naadir and Francamp has to be the funniest thing I’ve heard this offseason. Too funny… you can’t make this up.
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@FarmerJayhawk said in Reasons to believe in next year’s team:
@kuballin10 not my point at all. I said we won a title with Harris at PG. And he’s not getting benched.
Juan will be the main PG, that’s just a fact. My point is I’d play Hunter with him because it gives you your best 5 out there. He still played 25 MPG in the tournament. I’d bump him to the 28-30ish number next year. He played so much last year because Remy and Bobby were hurt. Non-con he was only at 27 MPG.
Say we get Ramey instead. He’s also a really good defender and can handle it. I’m still not benching Harris for an unprepared freshman. Harris Ramey McCullar Wilson Clemence. That’s plenty of offense. Absolutely killer without the ball, and has enough shooting. Won’t be a great strength but enough. Dick can snipe off the bench. This lineup is so versatile because you can rotate PGs and switch between PG and 3 wings and 2 PGs 2 wings.
I think you hit on something very important that some folks are missing- this team will be oozing with levers that Bill can pull - need team speed? Put in Yes. Need a shot blocker? Put in Udeh. Need some outside shooting? Put in Dick. Juando needs a rest? Put in Bobby. Need someone to drive the ball? Put in MJ. So much talent, so much versatility. We won’t be as fast as last year, but if we can get Ramey, then we might not need to be as fast. We could have the best perimeter defense we’ve ever had with Juando, Ramey and McCullar.
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@approxinfinity @Jethro you guys are as bad as cnn and foxs news twisting words (yes, I’m hating on both so both sides here politically can’t complain)…or I suck at explaining the latter probably true.
Juan’s reduction in minutes (he played the perfect amount) allowed the title.
I wasn’t comparing Juan to those two players, clearly Juan is better. The comparison that I poorly explained is a lesser player holding up a better player from getting proper minutes. The scenario was the comparison not the literal players.
Russ rob/sherron situation and player comparison is perfect.
Tharpe and Frankamp is situationally applicable but not player to player with Juan. You guys got on me quick for that one.
Juan vs Hunter…one is nba talent the other is not. If I was Bill then I’d say Hunter come on down and Juan you will be the backup pg. Play the best players and in this situation Juan is being perched up when in reality he isn’t as good as the guy we were after.
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@kuballin10 the last time iowa state played kansas, dajuan had 14 pts and 8 assists in 38 minutes. hunter had 8 pts and 2 assists in 32 minutes.
You can speculate that Hunter is better but i have seen dajuan stepping up big when we need him.Hunter is just that, speculation, at least in the sense that we dont know what he will do for Bill.
In defense of your position, Dajuans box score against UNC was not pretty, even if his defense in the second half was.
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@approxinfinity said in Reasons to believe in next year’s team:
@kuballin10 the last time iowa state played kansas, dajuan had 14 pts and 8 assists in 38 minutes. hunter had 8 pts and 2 assists in 32 minutes.
You can speculate that Hunter is better but i have seen dajuan stepping up big when we need him.Hunter is just that, speculation, at least in the sense that we dont know what he will do for Bill.
In defense of your position, Dajuans box score against UNC was not pretty, even if his defense in the second half was.
@approxinfinity 1 game sample size is your argument?
Speculate? We have a full season with each and it was pretty clear. Hunter is a better athlete, drives it better (thus more assists and impacts the game), just as good defensively and scores it better.
I’d love to see what he would do for Bill.
In the game at KU Juan hit the shot but got outplayed by Hunter’s 5 assists and 5 steals ect.
Hunter scores it more, takes it away more, and assists it more. There isn’t any speculation studs like Hunter do just fine under Self.
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@approxinfinity I agree on the box score and had him stepping out of bounds with a horrible angle and court awareness cost us an L I can’t imagine how ugly it’d been for the kid (he gets roasted on 247 sports 10 times as much here).
His D second half did lead the charge there is no denying that. The lob to start, the steal from Love you almost don’t see (horrible camera work), the denial of in bounds causing inbounder to step across the line and then my absolute favorite play was the strip of RJ and straight into his scream/celebration saying YOU CANT SCORE ON ME HELL YOU CANT EVEN GET A SHOT UP!!!
I feel seeing him for what he is; is crucial and Self sees all his good straights and excuses his bad.
Hopefully we get Nova Juan or the Juan who after coach called him a p and changes his scoring mentality.
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Who else still thinks about the inbound’s play drawn up for Dajuan Harris and his failure to properly execute it? Dajuan was wide open for the inbound’s pass but couldn’t control his position on the sideline. Even if he stayed inbounds, he threw an out of control pass right to Brady Manek but not much time remained. I still think about that play and how it could have gone better; great design on the play, but less than great execution. I also wonder what would have happened if Brady Manek hadn’t slipped on his cut in the lane during NC’s final inbound’s play. My guess is Brady was the first option to shoot their 3. Then I remember KU is the National Champion. I read where Coach Self admitted to watching the championship game more than 10 times. I don’t watch the first half, but love watching the second half during the sport dead zone that is April to August for me.
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@stoptheflop I have not thought about that play for even a millisecond.
Did any other players ever execute anything improperly?
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@stoptheflop Incidentally, I have thought a number of times about Hinrich giving up the last shot against Syracuse. But his failure to execute that play doesn’t at all diminish my sense that he was a fantastic guard for the Jayhawks. He and Collison were a joy to watch on fast breaks!
On the other hand, the missed free throws by several players were too numerous to feel bad about any single one!
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@stoptheflop play was perfect and everyone executed their part Juan just messed up. Huge dome and court awareness is different with the raised floor/benches ect.
Play should have been for a better free throw shooter though!
As @wissox said stuff happens every season, every champ gets some breaks and our guys won that’s all that matters.
But I do enjoy analyzing the game and potential moments where the result may not have been in our favor. I still can’t believe we won but then with remy’s emergence, Dave turning into Dok on offense and the other guys all stepping up with huge stones it’s easy to see how we pulled it out.
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Cam Martin will enter BEAST MODE.
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@bskeet said in Reasons to believe in next year’s team:
@approxinfinity said in Reasons to believe in next year’s team:
I think of Russ Rob as a better comp for Juan.
yes… And maybe Sherron.
Haaaahahahahahhahhhahahhhahah. Haaaahhahahhahahhhhhahhhahh.
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@RockkChalkk had to check the ranking in his class. Dajuan was 39th on Rivals! Sherron was 21st. While I agree they are very different in players, I am on board with those two rankings. I think Dajuan is a better defender and leader, while Sherron is a better scorer. I think some of those Sherron led teams after the 2008 championship could have benefited from Dajuans court vision.
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@kuballin10 said in Reasons to believe in next year’s team:
@approxinfinity If Juan plays a full season like the Nova game he’s a stud.
Shoot 500 three’s a day and another 500 floaters!
@FarmerJayhawk you still noted it so felt compelled to comment. It’s like say Peyton’s last year winning a super bowl or an average qb winning it all because of the team.
Dave, Remy, Och, Braun, Wilson carried us and mainly Remy in crucial games. Juan’s D contributed mightily but his reduction in minutes allowed the title.
He will start but monitoring his minutes is important.
You think we get Ramey? Watched some highlights of him and he’s a solid 2. Better shooter than Hunter and honestly in our offense he would be great alongside Juan.
Defensively and ability to drive how is Ramey per staff? Seems they wanted Hunter but would be happy with Ramey.
Following that metaphor, I think Juan is more 2012 Eli than last SB Peyton. Solid, reliable, makes plays when it counts.
Ramey doesn’t really want to be in college next year, but isn’t really a prospect so we’ll see how things play out over the next month. Ramey’s performance guarding Och really impressed them. He’s a pesky defender. Not really a driver. Think more a Devonte 2016-17 role.
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@approxinfinity Yes. And Sherron was not asked to be a primary scorer in 2008. He was a facilitator first. Then, he took on more and more responsibility until he and Aldrich were an incredible tandem in 2010.
I think that role is similar for Juan. He was not asked to be a primary scorer this year; we had plenty of other options for that. But he was trusted to be a facilitator. But I expect that he will asked to take on more scoring responsibilities in 2022-23 and the following years he will be a primary scorer.
This is the way.
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@bskeet said in Reasons to believe in next year’s team:
I think that role is similar for Juan. He was not asked to be a primary scorer this year; we had plenty of other options for that.
Correction, we had plenty of other better options for that. Like literally almost everyone. The only other players with a lower FG % were Zach, Yes, Teahan and Jank.
Next year’s team is starving for scoring. Its hard enough scoring 5 vs 5 but when the other team knows they don’t really have to guard one, it becomes 4 vs 5 on the offensive end and that much harder. If the 4 are studs then it can work. I think its way more likely that we see Juan as a 6th man or 7th man rotation player next year than it is he becomes a second team all american like Sherron did. Also, this isn’t me accepting the Sherron comparison - Sherron was way better than Juan soph year especially if you do a per minute comparison because Sherron played fewer minutes per game and still almost doubled him up in points per game.
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@RockkChalkk I wasn’t making an argument about who is better, Juan or Sherron. I was talking about career trajectories. My point is that I think they will be similar. Sherron was capable of scoring but there were better options in 2008. Later he was depended on to be a more prolific scorer. Likewise for Juan in 2022. And, in my opinion, Juan will also be depended on to be a more prolific scorer in his jr and sr years.
Your point about scoring 5v5 compared to 5v4 is a good one. When one guy isn’t a scoring threat, the defense can cheat.
As a side note, I don’t have the numbers for post-season, but it would be interesting to look at Juan’s post-season scoring to see how that compares to his full-season metrics. My observation is that he took more shots in the post season, when it was more critical to keep the defense honest. He only needed to make a few (and he did) to change the way the team was defended.
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@bskeet I would LOVE to see Juan become that prolific scorer you describe. It would be fantastic. Its just hard for me to see that happening. You’d think that being the non scoring threat he was all year with defenses backing off of him would equate to a higher FG % since he would get those wide open looks. As a player becomes more and more the threat they start facing the other team’s best defenders, see more double teams, get the defenses attention, etc, and often we see the player’s FG % drop down a little. If I’m not mistaken this was the case with Sherron too.
Its not impossible for it to happen though so there is still hope. Hopefully he is a gym rat all off season, gets some shooting mechanics worked out, and shocks us all next year as a new player on the offensive end.
However, if you’re looking for a surprise scorer next year, I think Pettiford could be that guy. Really small sample size but 53.3% FG % raises an eyebrow. His workout tapes coming in reminded me of Dotson’s. DD’s was more impressive but still, 85% of DD is damn good. I’m hoping Bill tries him in that Mason/Dotson role and see if he sinks or swims.
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@bskeet I can’t believe you are comparing one of the baddest guards to ever play at Kansas (Self’s words) to a guy who averages 5.4 points, 4.2 ast, and 1.5 steals
Sherron Frosh: 9.3, 2.9 and .7 Soph: 9.3, 3.1, 1.1
Also, Dajuan was no where near 39th he moved up that many spots when he committed to KU.
https://m.kusports.com/weblogs/tale-tait/2019/aug/22/kansas-commitment-dajuan-harris-jumps-in/
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@RockkChalkk Exactly - a defense never left sherron open or played 5v4 when he was a freshman or sophmore…
If Pettiford can stay healthy he’s in the mold for sure that can get to the rim and finish strong
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Speaking as a former player who shot so low a % from outside that it didn’t matter if I was open or not… I can honestly say I probably shot near equal % when left wide open than when guarded. I know it killed my confidence being dared to shoot it from outside and after a while I didn’t have the balls to try to prove them wrong.
My only advice to Juan on shooting from trey: don’t listen to me! lol
I will say… Juan has several offensive tools that are quality and will help his stat line; he’s actually a good finisher at the rim, and his open-court scoring is good (especially helpful when he steals passes), and he has a very soft touch at midrange. There is no reason why he can’t lift his numbers a bit from trey and become a more consistent scorer from distance. I wish people would stop bagging on him. He’s earned every bit of that championship ring on his finger and will bring his winning formula back to KU to try to do it again!
It would be sick if Mosley comes and we all get the benefit synergy created off their relationship! Absolutely sick!
And NO! I’m still praying with get McCullar! lol We get McCullar and then it comes down to Wilson or Mosley… ha… I’m becoming crazy enthusiastic about next year’s team!
My new chant: BACK-TO-BACK!
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@drgnslayr said in Reasons to believe in next year’s team:
Speaking as a former player who shot so low a % from outside that it didn’t matter if I was open or not… I can honestly say I probably shot near equal % when left wide open than when guarded. I know it killed my confidence being dared to shoot it from outside and after a while I didn’t have the balls to try to prove them wrong.
My only advice to Juan on shooting from trey: don’t listen to me! lol
I will say… Juan has several offensive tools that are quality and will help his stat line; he’s actually a good finisher at the rim, and his open-court scoring is good (especially helpful when he steals passes), and he has a very soft touch at midrange. There is no reason why he can’t lift his numbers a bit from trey and become a more consistent scorer from distance. I wish people would stop bagging on him. He’s earned every bit of that championship ring on his finger and will bring his winning formula back to KU to try to do it again!
It would be sick if Mosley comes and we all get the benefit synergy created off their relationship! Absolutely sick!
And NO! I’m still praying with get McCullar! lol We get McCullar and then it comes down to Wilson or Mosley… ha… I’m becoming crazy enthusiastic about next year’s team!
My new chant: BACK-TO-BACK!
Excellent post. We don’t need 15 a game from Juan- but I’ll bet we get 10. Juan does so much more than score- setting up the offense, hitting guys in their spots, playing tenacious on ball defense, etc. The value is immeasurable.
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I never said Juan would be a prolific scorer. I said he would be depended on to be a more prolific scorer. In other words, he will be asked and expected to generate more scoring in his jr and sr year.
Again, I AM NOT COMPARING THE ABILITIES OF THESE TWO. I’M COMPARING THEIR ASSIGNMENTS.
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Sherron Frosh: 9.3, 2.9 and .7 Soph: 9.3, 3.1, 1.1
Sherron Jr 18.9 pts per game; Sr 15.5 pts per game.
He basically doubled his output in his last two years. Not because he suddenly found some new ability between his Sophomore and Junior years, rather, because the team dynamics changed and his assignment changed.
DeJuan’s Frosh: 2.4 pt per game and Soph: 5.4 pts per game
I wouldn’t be surprised if Juan averaged 9-10 per game next year. That’s about double this year’s production and that’s what they will need from him.
My point is that this is a similar trajectory.
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@Jethro said in Reasons to believe in next year’s team:
@drgnslayr said in Reasons to believe in next year’s team:
Speaking as a former player who shot so low a % from outside that it didn’t matter if I was open or not… I can honestly say I probably shot near equal % when left wide open than when guarded. I know it killed my confidence being dared to shoot it from outside and after a while I didn’t have the balls to try to prove them wrong.
My only advice to Juan on shooting from trey: don’t listen to me! lol
I will say… Juan has several offensive tools that are quality and will help his stat line; he’s actually a good finisher at the rim, and his open-court scoring is good (especially helpful when he steals passes), and he has a very soft touch at midrange. There is no reason why he can’t lift his numbers a bit from trey and become a more consistent scorer from distance. I wish people would stop bagging on him. He’s earned every bit of that championship ring on his finger and will bring his winning formula back to KU to try to do it again!
It would be sick if Mosley comes and we all get the benefit synergy created off their relationship! Absolutely sick!
And NO! I’m still praying with get McCullar! lol We get McCullar and then it comes down to Wilson or Mosley… ha… I’m becoming crazy enthusiastic about next year’s team!
My new chant: BACK-TO-BACK!
Excellent post. We don’t need 15 a game from Juan- but I’ll bet we get 10. Juan does so much more than score- setting up the offense, hitting guys in their spots, playing tenacious on ball defense, etc. The value is immeasurable.
Agree Jethro I think we could get maybe 8-10 from Juan -if we NEED/HAVE to get 15 from Juan - - -we in trouble , we should have enough scorer’s that won’t be necessary
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Underclassman Sherron frustrated the hell out of me. If he hadn’t gotten that steal and 3 to put us in striking distance in the championship and then the fall down pass to Mario, I would have remembered a lot of the boneheaded things he did that season, including some head-scratching plays in the championship on a team full of pretty cool customers. My point being, Dajuan is not the first KU underclassman to make a few boneheaded plays in a championship he also did some very good things in.
In particular, underclassman Sherron’s drives to nowhere, getting caught in the air with no option, and either turning it over or getting packed to Kingdom Come drove me absolutely nuts. So let’s allow that there may be a bit of lip-service hypberbole in Self’s assessment of Sherron as “one of the toughest” or whatever he said. Yes, Sherron was good, had a borderline great career by KU standards (high standards). He checks all the boxes for someone Self would praise.
- Contributed his sophomore year to a championship run.
- Waited his turn to start
- Was from the Chicago area (want to recruit that!)
- Was a 5 star McD (want to recruit that!)
- Played 4 years for Self, probably should have left after his 3rd
- First team All American
- Wasn’t drafted because of size
And importantly, his senior year, with 7 guys who made an NBA roster on his team, a team you would expect senior Sherron to lead, he lost to Northern Iowa.
So don’t laugh when we suggest that lil Sophomore NCAA CHAMPION Dajuan Harris might end up having a better college career than Sherron.
He just might.
