2021-22 PER's & Stats
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@Texas-Hawk-10 said in 2021-22 PER's & Stats:
@FarmerJayhawk said in 2021-22 PER's & Stats:
Guys I’m imaging Marcus starting at the 2 for this squad and now I’m sad
As much as I love Garrett, and was singing his praises long before most here came around on him, Garrett would make this offense really bad, even playing off the ball. Remy and his ability to score the ball was the missing ingredient for this team on offense and with Garrett, the offense would still have a lot issues with the ball sticking and going stagnant for long stretches.
Obviously there’s a drop off defensively with Remy, but once Remy gets acclimated, I do believe this is going to be one of the best offenses Self’s had at KU.
I was thinking Remy at the 1, Garrett at the 2. Garrett and Dotson worked well. Garrett is a very good facilitator and tbh is just a better Juan in a lot of respects. Oh well. A guy can dream. Marcus made the right decision for himself and I respect that.
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@FarmerJayhawk said in 2021-22 PER's & Stats:
@Texas-Hawk-10 said in 2021-22 PER's & Stats:
@FarmerJayhawk said in 2021-22 PER's & Stats:
Guys I’m imaging Marcus starting at the 2 for this squad and now I’m sad
As much as I love Garrett, and was singing his praises long before most here came around on him, Garrett would make this offense really bad, even playing off the ball. Remy and his ability to score the ball was the missing ingredient for this team on offense and with Garrett, the offense would still have a lot issues with the ball sticking and going stagnant for long stretches.
Obviously there’s a drop off defensively with Remy, but once Remy gets acclimated, I do believe this is going to be one of the best offenses Self’s had at KU.
I was thinking Remy at the 1, Garrett at the 2. Garrett and Dotson worked well. Garrett is a very good facilitator and tbh is just a better Juan in a lot of respects. Oh well. A guy can dream. Marcus made the right decision for himself and I respect that.
I respect his decision bigtime, and wish him well. My observation? Great defensive player obviously, and he was a great asset to our team, but he isn’t a point guard (the offense stalls), nor is he really skilled enough to be a two. He isn’t going to stick in the NBA, overseas bound. There, I said it, now I’m done.
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So much digital ink arguing over playing time after 2 games with one of our starters suspended.
Y’all should have gone to Law School and gotten paid to quibble!
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Anyway, play Clemence more Bill, please. Clemence and Adams once Jalen comes back to play his about 22 mpg are more than capable to play backup roles at both the 5 and 4, depending on the situation.
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Better then arguing and quibbling about the 65 Level 1 violations hanging over our head…
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PER is definitely more of a measure of how well someone plays offense. It’s not the end-all, its certainly helpful in quantifying how well/bad/average someone is playing on that side of the ball. Helps put the eye test to numbers
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@Marco said in 2021-22 PER's & Stats:
@jayballer67 said in 2021-22 PER's & Stats:
@Marco said in 2021-22 PER's & Stats:
@jayballer67 said in 2021-22 PER's & Stats:
@Marco said in 2021-22 PER's & Stats:
Btw, I agree with many on this site, Clemence needs to play more. That’s why I was not a big fan of Mitch coming back. Bill is loyal, sometimes to a fault. Which is what was being implied on another topic post. Would I want another Coach? Hell no. But it is what it is, Mitch is not a big minute rotation piece…
He should be riding the pine, being a cheerleader. Yeah, he’ll make a play occasionally, but he’s been here six years! He’s never been a player that you can consistently rely on.
I love that he bleeds Jayhawk, but come on…
Come on is right man. KU has never recruited Mitch to be a big contribution. They knew what they were getting when they recruited him, not EVERYONE can be those Mega Studs a point a minute. What Dave does is the things that your Mega Studs don’t want to be bothered with , the charge -the block - -the loose ball - -setting the screens . Thank GOD the Staff realizes that While your studs or for the most part - -all they are concerned about is get me the ball so I can do y thing. Mitch knows he has no future in the NBA - -I’m quite sure he realized that some time ago
Teams - - -Including KU need the Mitch’ s of the Basketball world REAL SCRAPPERS - Thank God Coach knows that , there is more to the game then just scoring and looking flashy. - - The minutes he DOES get is just fine , people who can’t understand that then just don’t understand the complete picture of the game
Stop! Enough with the floor burn, loyalty crap. He should hardly be in the rotation. Good god, you don’t think that Clemence and Adams - and what about Wilson, he’ll be back soon - need to play? A block here, a point there, I mean really? You bring up Jerod, I liked me some Haas. Mitch is not Haas, in any lifetime.
I’ll take it a step further. I’d take Jamari Traylor over Mitch any day of the week. Not trying to be disrespectful to you @jayballer67 but come on. For this team to reach its potential not only this year but next, he needs to be a cheerleader sooner rather than later. Same reason that I wanted Marcus to leave, I wanted Mitch too as well.
LOL you wanted Marcus to leave ? - - ok that’s all I need to hear that’s funny Marcus meant so much to this team - - Ya a block here and a point there dam straight maynard , everyone has a job to do on this roster and Mitch does his quite well. Like you said to me - no disrespect BUT I think I’ll have a lil - - just a lil more feel of what Coach Self is doing then somebody like yourself. - I mean a College hal of fame Coach making those kind of decisions EVERY DAY. Do you actually think he is going to continue to play Mitch period if he is hurting this team - -umm no he wouldn’t. Nobody on this site says Mitch plays 20 minutes a game Mitch even knows that but for the back up spot duty Mitch is more - -much more then competent then to do that.
Plus where in the holy hell did you see me say ANYTHING anything at all in any of this conversation about Clemence and Adams NOT playing - -please point that out to me I must of went comotose for a fe minutes. - Like I said I think I kind of favor Coach’s reasoning decision making just a teensy bit mor then yours - looks like he is doing just fine.
Yes, I wanted Marcus to leave after last year. We got Remi and Pettiford, Joseph - I’ll take that over Marcus any day of the week. And that’s not disrespecting Marcus, just the way it is. It was time for him to move on. Mitch should have too.
LOL ya you know it buddy. You hang on to your thoughts you gonna be ok. They are your believes - -don’t agree 1 % with them BUT there yours - - good for you we could go back and forth on this all day - all year but NOPE not me.- -ROCK CHALK
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I was expecting low numbers from Dave… it’s early in the year and also we have a new PG situation and we are not tweaked for in-post feeds yet.
Jalen coming back might influence his #s, too… in either direction… depending on how Jalen plays his game.
If this was last year, I’d state how I think Dave’s numbers will climb later on. Not so sure this year. Really matters how this team plays. Self will go for whatever works to add more points (or defend more points).
Have to say I am a bit disappointed… thought Dave would come back with more foot speed… both in lateral movement and full court speed. His lack of foot speed is a definite Achilles’ heel with this team!
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Very early for advanced stats but always fun.
I will say the biggest thing to me this year is simply…having a bench at all. Regardless of who people think should start or how Self is using it the options this year are much better than TGF, Bryce, Tristan etc
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I still think Bryce is/will be good. Must be mental? Could be his dad.
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Remember - stopping a guy from scoring IS THE SAME AS SCORING. I’ll repeat that. STOPPING A BUCKET EQUALS SCORING ONE. how many games did Garrett hold the best opposing scorer to a paltry few baskets?? thats the same as scoring those points. And yes Marcus would have been on the floor this year for very good reason despite who we have now.
Next few games really watch what Mitch does away from the ball. ESPN replays all their game on demand so one can rewatch multiple times and concentrate on any given single player.
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I’d take Marcus on this year’s team in a second. He could have gone back to being a junkyard dog wing. That said, great decision for him to start getting regular checks.
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@BShark said in 2021-22 PER's & Stats:
I’d take Marcus on this year’s team in a second. He could have gone back to being a junkyard dog wing. That said, great decision for him to start getting regular checks.
I respect your opinion, as always. Just don’t think that Marcus would have fit in well with this year’s team, is all. In fact, had he returned, we probably wouldn’t even have a couple of guards that are now in fold. That’s all I was saying. Was not trying to imply that Marcus isn’t a player.
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Updated Point Totals after Stony Brook win!
Updated PER’s
Buy Zach stock now, I bought it last year!~
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KU now #2 per Kenpom, #4 O, #7D with a 27.48 rating overall
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@BShark said in 2021-22 PER's & Stats:
I’d take Marcus on this year’s team in a second. He could have gone back to being a junkyard dog wing. That said, great decision for him to start getting regular checks.
Had Garrett come back though, KU may not have Remy or Pettiford on the roster which completely changes the outlook of this team because of that.
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@Texas-Hawk-10 said in 2021-22 PER's & Stats:
@BShark said in 2021-22 PER's & Stats:
I’d take Marcus on this year’s team in a second. He could have gone back to being a junkyard dog wing. That said, great decision for him to start getting regular checks.
Had Garrett come back though, KU may not have Remy or Pettiford on the roster which completely changes the outlook of this team because of that.
I said the same. Had he returned, I don’t believe that either of them would be playing for us.
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Updated after the ESPN tourney. Braun a big riser after a really strong 3 game tournament. We need that CB every night.
Season Point Totals Updated
Kenpom updated. Defense has cratered
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Updated, post St Johns
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You can see why Bill is pounding the table about being better defensively. This group scores pretty effortlessly (thus far). Even despite starting Jaun, Dave having his moments, and Jalen being slow to start. Certainly the improvements from Braun and Ochai are obvious. But the lack of dropoff from subs also helps. Really felt that preseason this team should be a top 2 or 3 in the country. Right now they look solidly top 10, but maybe not a 1 seed caliber team quite yet.
I swear if they would just come out of the half with a little bit of a killer instinct they could put games away by the 25 minute mark. The last 4 games they basically let teams back into the game and then had to crank it up halfway through the 2nd half to win.
I do think Bill needs to let Remy cook a little bit more. But I can appreciate that Bill is trying to get him to take what is in the flow vs. creating something. Still, I think he is probably one of the best players in the country at taking his guy 1v1 with the shot clock/game clock under 10 and getting a bucket. Silly not to use that to our advantage like we did when we had DG, Frank and Sherron.
Still like what this team can do. And if we can get hot enough we could win the whole thing from a 3 or 4 seed with the talent that is here.
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AP #8 this week
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@BeddieKU23 I’d say eight is about right.
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Here’s the thing about being a great defender but a subpar offensive player - you take away as much as you give, even if you don’t take many shots.
Think about it this way. Let’s say Harris is guarding the other team’s PG, who is also a good scorer. Harris makes life tough on that guy, forces him to shoot under 45% from the field, three or four turnovers, etc. That’s a pretty good game from Harris on the defensive end.
But offensively, that PG gets to guard Harris and rest on that end of the floor. Maybe that means that PG has more energy down the stretch because Harris is a non threat when he is on the floor, so you don’t have to work to close out to him, and can just play off for the drive. So yes, Harris may not get credit for his defense, but he is also not penalized for not taking shots (no misses) and he doesn’t turn the ball over much, but he is still a liability on offense because he can’t shoot.
Offensively, you can’t be a non-entity. Aaron Miles was effective because he was a very good defender and also a great passer.
Marcus Garrett was successful because he could rebound pretty well, and was a more versatile defender. But if Marcus Garrett had been even a little bit worse defensively, he probably becomes unplayable early in his career, and is only a spot player as a junior and senior. Essentially, if Garrett was anything less than a top 5 defender in the nation, he is not a starter at KU, probably ever. His offense was just too bad for that, unless he was an elite defender.
Offense is important because a bad offensive player doesn’t have to be guarded, thereby turning their opponent into an elite defender with little effort. Put this way, Harris is an elite defender, and could certainly give a guy like Remy Martin tons of problems on defense. But Remy Martin wouldn’t have to do much of anything to produce a similar result guarding Harris on the other end. So Harris is, at best, a net zero in the trade off, potentially less if his assignment doesn’t turn the ball over and doesn’t have a terrible shooting night. We’re talking about the difference between his guy going 2-11 from the field and 4-11. Both are bad, but if his guy goes 4-11 and hits a couple FTs, that’s still double figures and if turnovers are minimized, that’s a win considering Harris may not score at all, and allows his man to sag off him when he’s on the perimeter.
An inability to score is a huge drawback, and I think PER captures that, even if it isn’t perfect when capturing good disruptive pressure defense.
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@justanotherfan Seems that PERs doesn’t value assists very much. Harris leading the team, almost 1 per game more than anyone else.
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The ball moves a lot better with Harris in. Hopefully as other guys get more comfortable in the system they move it better, then there would barely be a reason to play Harris. Bill loves him but he would be better off the bench situationally.
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@BShark said in 2021-22 PER's & Stats:
The ball moves a lot better with Harris in. Hopefully as other guys get more comfortable in the system they move it better, then there would barely be a reason to play Harris. Bill loves him but he would be better off the bench situational
Agree with your assessment.
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Updated post UTEP
Ochai and Braun playing at crazy levels right now
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Agbaji and Braun are playing at All-American levels right now. If they both keep this up and KU gets contributions from everyone else, this is a Final Four team. Those two can take a team deep into March, possibly to a stage on the first Monday in April.
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Updated post Methzu blowout
Ochai now in #46 place on the all-time KU scoring list.
At his current rate he’s on pace to land in 16th place before post-season play began. If KU won the Big-12 tourney & NCAA Championship he’s on pace for 9th overall in scoring. Going to be fun tracking this
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I’m curious how Jalen’s minutes will go moving forward. Self said he tried out how to run minutes in the Miz game. Preseason the guy most mentioned by Self was Jalen. I don’t think he can find his game playing under a half of ball in games. Even though he hasn’t stepped up yet I wonder if Self will show he has confidence in him by giving him more minutes. I expected him to be around 25+ by now.
I see a FF team if we see the following: Remy continue to meld in and give us positive play time… leadership figured out between him and Dajuan. Dave settle down in the paint (which he seems to be on his way to doing). And last, Jalen become a high minute player and hit his stride. Then we have really 5 guys who are all capable of putting up big game totals. Never reliant on just one or two guys carrying the load.
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Jalen just looks like a misfit out there right now.
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@BeddieKU23 I think his biggest issue is Och/CB are the same player archetype for this roster but much better. He would be much more interesting as the back-up 5 but neither party seems interested in that from what I was told.
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@BeddieKU23 said in 2021-22 PER's & Stats:
Jalen just looks like a misfit out there right now.
Would love to know what his NBA feedback was. Feels like he was told he could be a “Point 4” or something because he is just getting the rebound and then sprinting up the floor with it like he’s a 5th grader.
On the flip side, why is Bill not getting him post touches? Does he not have a post game? He’s 6’8, surely he has developed some go-to post moves.
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@Kcmatt7 He was pretty much told he isn’t an NBA player.
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@BShark I agree with this analysis unless he magically finds a .400+ shooting ability from 3.
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@Kcmatt7 said in 2021-22 PER's & Stats:
@BShark I agree with this analysis unless he magically finds a .400+ shooting ability from 3.
Kid needs to learn how to shoot from all 3 levels before thinking about his next career.
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Agree- Och & CB became playmakers in the offseason. Jalen’s still left behind at the alter
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@Kcmatt7 said in 2021-22 PER's & Stats:
@BeddieKU23 said in 2021-22 PER's & Stats:
Jalen just looks like a misfit out there right now.
Would love to know what his NBA feedback was. Feels like he was told he could be a “Point 4” or something because he is just getting the rebound and then sprinting up the floor with it like he’s a 5th grader.
On the flip side, why is Bill not getting him post touches? Does he not have a post game? He’s 6’8, surely he has developed some go-to post moves.
It’s kind of funny because Jalen’s in a hurry with the ball but usually has no end game with it. He’s more like Dave in a lot of ways the more I think about it.
Haven’t seen a post game from him. He’s been mostly used away from the basket. I’ll just continue to hope there’s more he’s going to show.
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@BeddieKU23 right. If he doesn’t start doing something soon what is the point of ever starting him?
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@Marco because we need him to get better!
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@Crimsonorblue22 said in 2021-22 PER's & Stats:
@Marco because we need him to get better!
I realize that… I guess what I was trying to say is, what if he doesn’t get better? Hard to believe that he could play as lousy as he has been, all season. But I mean, if he doesn’t start playing better soon?
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@Marco said in 2021-22 PER's & Stats:
@Crimsonorblue22 said in 2021-22 PER's & Stats:
@Marco because we need him to get better!
I realize that… I guess what I was trying to say is, what if he doesn’t get better? Hard to believe that he could play as lousy as he has been, all season. But I mean, if he doesn’t start playing better soon?
Wilson just needs to find a way to get the lid off the basket. His shooting woes are why he’s where he is because 33% FG, 7% from 3, 35% from the line isn’t cutting it.
I’ll say this bluntly, he’s a lazy shooter and the numbers back it up. He should be a better shooter but we’ve yet to see it.
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If Jalen needs feedback on what his game is like just ask 16,300 witnesses to his every appearance in AFH.
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Like many of you said… Jalen is competing with Och and CB for being a player skilled on the drive. But he is the potential “Magic 4” we need and has great potential at that slot because of the one area where he outperforms CB and Och… playing through contact! That’s why he is our best rebounder.
I hope he takes a good hard look at Och’s progress. Och has completely lifted his NBA stock this year. Jalen may not have the athleticism of Och… but players like Timme show how successful you can be with technique more than athleticism.
Jalen needs some work on his handles and midrange/rim game. Probably polishing on his trey shot, too.
There is a reason why Self hyped him so much a few weeks ago. I trust what he sees in his potential more than any of us. Jalen runs the floor as good or better than the rest of the team. He goes after rebounds, and he just doesn’t have his scoring swagger back yet.
I suspect we will see him come on after Christmas. Extending practice time should help and Self can draw up more offense to include Jalen’s abilities. He looks a bit lost out there right now.
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@BeddieKU23 said in 2021-22 PER's & Stats:
@Marco said in 2021-22 PER's & Stats:
@Crimsonorblue22 said in 2021-22 PER's & Stats:
@Marco because we need him to get better!
I realize that… I guess what I was trying to say is, what if he doesn’t get better? Hard to believe that he could play as lousy as he has been, all season. But I mean, if he doesn’t start playing better soon?
Wilson just needs to find a way to get the lid off the basket. His shooting woes are why he’s where he is because 33% FG, 7% from 3, 35% from the line isn’t cutting it.
I’ll say this bluntly, he’s a lazy shooter and the numbers back it up. He should be a better shooter but we’ve yet to see it.
I agree with you I really do, I just don’t understand as he was quite a bit better in all phases in his shooting lat yr. - his Ft % is terrible. - he wasn’t that bad last yr, I think maybe like 68 % somewhere in that area last yr - -bette 3 pathetic this yr what’s happened?
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@jayballer67 said in 2021-22 PER's & Stats:
@BeddieKU23 said in 2021-22 PER's & Stats:
@Marco said in 2021-22 PER's & Stats:
@Crimsonorblue22 said in 2021-22 PER's & Stats:
@Marco because we need him to get better!
I realize that… I guess what I was trying to say is, what if he doesn’t get better? Hard to believe that he could play as lousy as he has been, all season. But I mean, if he doesn’t start playing better soon?
Wilson just needs to find a way to get the lid off the basket. His shooting woes are why he’s where he is because 33% FG, 7% from 3, 35% from the line isn’t cutting it.
I’ll say this bluntly, he’s a lazy shooter and the numbers back it up. He should be a better shooter but we’ve yet to see it.
I agree with you I really do, I just don’t understand as he was quite a bit better in all phases in his shooting lat yr. - his Ft % is terrible. - he wasn’t that bad last yr, I think maybe like 68 % somewhere in that area last yr - -better 3 pathetic this yr what’s happened?
His overall numbers last year weren’t good either, 41% FG, 31% from 3, 63% from the line. I dug even further into this. From the end of January to the end of the season Jalen was 46/117 from the field (39%) including 9 games of 33% shooting or less during that stretch.
So far he’s struggled even more shooting the ball and that’s a byproduct of his poor decision before the season started. He’s pressed since coming back and probably has struggled coming off the bench. Self thinks the light is going to come on for him but its a waiting game so far. If he doesn’t find some efficiency in his game I don’t see a reason for him even playing the role he currently has.
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@BeddieKU23 said in 2021-22 PER's & Stats:
@jayballer67 said in 2021-22 PER's & Stats:
@BeddieKU23 said in 2021-22 PER's & Stats:
@Marco said in 2021-22 PER's & Stats:
@Crimsonorblue22 said in 2021-22 PER's & Stats:
@Marco because we need him to get better!
I realize that… I guess what I was trying to say is, what if he doesn’t get better? Hard to believe that he could play as lousy as he has been, all season. But I mean, if he doesn’t start playing better soon?
Wilson just needs to find a way to get the lid off the basket. His shooting woes are why he’s where he is because 33% FG, 7% from 3, 35% from the line isn’t cutting it.
I’ll say this bluntly, he’s a lazy shooter and the numbers back it up. He should be a better shooter but we’ve yet to see it.
I agree with you I really do, I just don’t understand as he was quite a bit better in all phases in his shooting lat yr. - his Ft % is terrible. - he wasn’t that bad last yr, I think maybe like 68 % somewhere in that area last yr - -better 3 pathetic this yr what’s happened?
His overall numbers last year weren’t good either, 41% FG, 31% from 3, 63% from the line. I dug even further into this. From the end of January to the end of the season Jalen was 46/117 from the field (39%) including 9 games of 33% shooting or less during that stretch.
So far he’s struggled even more shooting the ball and that’s a byproduct of his poor decision before the season started. He’s pressed since coming back and probably has struggled coming off the bench. Self thinks the light is going to come on for him but its a waiting game so far. If he doesn’t find some efficiency in his game I don’t see a reason for him even playing the role he currently has.
Ya really poor numbers for sure , but even worse this year. - He was a good rebounds for us last year but just seems to be really pressing. We need him always a need for another scorer, cause you know and I know there WILL come a time CB and Oach both or one is just gonna be off , that’s where we need him and Remy both to pick it up. You have mention in other threads/posts that after this yr you think Jalen is gone no matter what - I beleive that also. Let’s just hope he gets his act together.
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Hopefully he has a breakout game coming up that gets him back on track.
Personally I think Jalen should stick around another year. With the roster the way its shaping up we are going to need him.
But the tea leaves certainly paint a different picture.
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Serious question about Jalen: how long do you give a guy to come around? At what point do you risk his being a liability at a critical point in a crucial game just to “get him going”?
I heard one of the announcers on the Mizzou broadcast suggest that some guys are just better when they start. For me, a guy with Jalen’s talent, or anyone at this level for that matter, should be able to produce no matter the role or the circumstances. I hope Bill continues to bring him off the bench until he shows us something and doesn’t reward him with a starter’s role just because he “should” be playing better or because he’s supposedly better when he starts. Don’t mean to pile on Jalen, but something is going on with him. You don’t just forget how to put the ball in the hoop when you have D-1 talent … do you?
Glad I’m not a coach.
