2021-22 PER's & Stats
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@BShark said in 2021-22 PER's & Stats:
I’d take Marcus on this year’s team in a second. He could have gone back to being a junkyard dog wing. That said, great decision for him to start getting regular checks.
Had Garrett come back though, KU may not have Remy or Pettiford on the roster which completely changes the outlook of this team because of that.
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@Texas-Hawk-10 said in 2021-22 PER's & Stats:
@BShark said in 2021-22 PER's & Stats:
I’d take Marcus on this year’s team in a second. He could have gone back to being a junkyard dog wing. That said, great decision for him to start getting regular checks.
Had Garrett come back though, KU may not have Remy or Pettiford on the roster which completely changes the outlook of this team because of that.
I said the same. Had he returned, I don’t believe that either of them would be playing for us.
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Updated after the ESPN tourney. Braun a big riser after a really strong 3 game tournament. We need that CB every night.
Season Point Totals Updated
Kenpom updated. Defense has cratered
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Updated, post St Johns
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You can see why Bill is pounding the table about being better defensively. This group scores pretty effortlessly (thus far). Even despite starting Jaun, Dave having his moments, and Jalen being slow to start. Certainly the improvements from Braun and Ochai are obvious. But the lack of dropoff from subs also helps. Really felt that preseason this team should be a top 2 or 3 in the country. Right now they look solidly top 10, but maybe not a 1 seed caliber team quite yet.
I swear if they would just come out of the half with a little bit of a killer instinct they could put games away by the 25 minute mark. The last 4 games they basically let teams back into the game and then had to crank it up halfway through the 2nd half to win.
I do think Bill needs to let Remy cook a little bit more. But I can appreciate that Bill is trying to get him to take what is in the flow vs. creating something. Still, I think he is probably one of the best players in the country at taking his guy 1v1 with the shot clock/game clock under 10 and getting a bucket. Silly not to use that to our advantage like we did when we had DG, Frank and Sherron.
Still like what this team can do. And if we can get hot enough we could win the whole thing from a 3 or 4 seed with the talent that is here.
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AP #8 this week
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@BeddieKU23 I’d say eight is about right.
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Here’s the thing about being a great defender but a subpar offensive player - you take away as much as you give, even if you don’t take many shots.
Think about it this way. Let’s say Harris is guarding the other team’s PG, who is also a good scorer. Harris makes life tough on that guy, forces him to shoot under 45% from the field, three or four turnovers, etc. That’s a pretty good game from Harris on the defensive end.
But offensively, that PG gets to guard Harris and rest on that end of the floor. Maybe that means that PG has more energy down the stretch because Harris is a non threat when he is on the floor, so you don’t have to work to close out to him, and can just play off for the drive. So yes, Harris may not get credit for his defense, but he is also not penalized for not taking shots (no misses) and he doesn’t turn the ball over much, but he is still a liability on offense because he can’t shoot.
Offensively, you can’t be a non-entity. Aaron Miles was effective because he was a very good defender and also a great passer.
Marcus Garrett was successful because he could rebound pretty well, and was a more versatile defender. But if Marcus Garrett had been even a little bit worse defensively, he probably becomes unplayable early in his career, and is only a spot player as a junior and senior. Essentially, if Garrett was anything less than a top 5 defender in the nation, he is not a starter at KU, probably ever. His offense was just too bad for that, unless he was an elite defender.
Offense is important because a bad offensive player doesn’t have to be guarded, thereby turning their opponent into an elite defender with little effort. Put this way, Harris is an elite defender, and could certainly give a guy like Remy Martin tons of problems on defense. But Remy Martin wouldn’t have to do much of anything to produce a similar result guarding Harris on the other end. So Harris is, at best, a net zero in the trade off, potentially less if his assignment doesn’t turn the ball over and doesn’t have a terrible shooting night. We’re talking about the difference between his guy going 2-11 from the field and 4-11. Both are bad, but if his guy goes 4-11 and hits a couple FTs, that’s still double figures and if turnovers are minimized, that’s a win considering Harris may not score at all, and allows his man to sag off him when he’s on the perimeter.
An inability to score is a huge drawback, and I think PER captures that, even if it isn’t perfect when capturing good disruptive pressure defense.
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@justanotherfan Seems that PERs doesn’t value assists very much. Harris leading the team, almost 1 per game more than anyone else.
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The ball moves a lot better with Harris in. Hopefully as other guys get more comfortable in the system they move it better, then there would barely be a reason to play Harris. Bill loves him but he would be better off the bench situationally.
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@BShark said in 2021-22 PER's & Stats:
The ball moves a lot better with Harris in. Hopefully as other guys get more comfortable in the system they move it better, then there would barely be a reason to play Harris. Bill loves him but he would be better off the bench situational
Agree with your assessment.
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Updated post UTEP
Ochai and Braun playing at crazy levels right now
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Agbaji and Braun are playing at All-American levels right now. If they both keep this up and KU gets contributions from everyone else, this is a Final Four team. Those two can take a team deep into March, possibly to a stage on the first Monday in April.
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Updated post Methzu blowout
Ochai now in #46 place on the all-time KU scoring list.
At his current rate he’s on pace to land in 16th place before post-season play began. If KU won the Big-12 tourney & NCAA Championship he’s on pace for 9th overall in scoring. Going to be fun tracking this
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I’m curious how Jalen’s minutes will go moving forward. Self said he tried out how to run minutes in the Miz game. Preseason the guy most mentioned by Self was Jalen. I don’t think he can find his game playing under a half of ball in games. Even though he hasn’t stepped up yet I wonder if Self will show he has confidence in him by giving him more minutes. I expected him to be around 25+ by now.
I see a FF team if we see the following: Remy continue to meld in and give us positive play time… leadership figured out between him and Dajuan. Dave settle down in the paint (which he seems to be on his way to doing). And last, Jalen become a high minute player and hit his stride. Then we have really 5 guys who are all capable of putting up big game totals. Never reliant on just one or two guys carrying the load.
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Jalen just looks like a misfit out there right now.
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@BeddieKU23 I think his biggest issue is Och/CB are the same player archetype for this roster but much better. He would be much more interesting as the back-up 5 but neither party seems interested in that from what I was told.
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@BeddieKU23 said in 2021-22 PER's & Stats:
Jalen just looks like a misfit out there right now.
Would love to know what his NBA feedback was. Feels like he was told he could be a “Point 4” or something because he is just getting the rebound and then sprinting up the floor with it like he’s a 5th grader.
On the flip side, why is Bill not getting him post touches? Does he not have a post game? He’s 6’8, surely he has developed some go-to post moves.
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@Kcmatt7 He was pretty much told he isn’t an NBA player.
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@BShark I agree with this analysis unless he magically finds a .400+ shooting ability from 3.
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@Kcmatt7 said in 2021-22 PER's & Stats:
@BShark I agree with this analysis unless he magically finds a .400+ shooting ability from 3.
Kid needs to learn how to shoot from all 3 levels before thinking about his next career.
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Agree- Och & CB became playmakers in the offseason. Jalen’s still left behind at the alter
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@Kcmatt7 said in 2021-22 PER's & Stats:
@BeddieKU23 said in 2021-22 PER's & Stats:
Jalen just looks like a misfit out there right now.
Would love to know what his NBA feedback was. Feels like he was told he could be a “Point 4” or something because he is just getting the rebound and then sprinting up the floor with it like he’s a 5th grader.
On the flip side, why is Bill not getting him post touches? Does he not have a post game? He’s 6’8, surely he has developed some go-to post moves.
It’s kind of funny because Jalen’s in a hurry with the ball but usually has no end game with it. He’s more like Dave in a lot of ways the more I think about it.
Haven’t seen a post game from him. He’s been mostly used away from the basket. I’ll just continue to hope there’s more he’s going to show.
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@BeddieKU23 right. If he doesn’t start doing something soon what is the point of ever starting him?
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@Marco because we need him to get better!
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@Crimsonorblue22 said in 2021-22 PER's & Stats:
@Marco because we need him to get better!
I realize that… I guess what I was trying to say is, what if he doesn’t get better? Hard to believe that he could play as lousy as he has been, all season. But I mean, if he doesn’t start playing better soon?
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@Marco said in 2021-22 PER's & Stats:
@Crimsonorblue22 said in 2021-22 PER's & Stats:
@Marco because we need him to get better!
I realize that… I guess what I was trying to say is, what if he doesn’t get better? Hard to believe that he could play as lousy as he has been, all season. But I mean, if he doesn’t start playing better soon?
Wilson just needs to find a way to get the lid off the basket. His shooting woes are why he’s where he is because 33% FG, 7% from 3, 35% from the line isn’t cutting it.
I’ll say this bluntly, he’s a lazy shooter and the numbers back it up. He should be a better shooter but we’ve yet to see it.
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If Jalen needs feedback on what his game is like just ask 16,300 witnesses to his every appearance in AFH.
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Like many of you said… Jalen is competing with Och and CB for being a player skilled on the drive. But he is the potential “Magic 4” we need and has great potential at that slot because of the one area where he outperforms CB and Och… playing through contact! That’s why he is our best rebounder.
I hope he takes a good hard look at Och’s progress. Och has completely lifted his NBA stock this year. Jalen may not have the athleticism of Och… but players like Timme show how successful you can be with technique more than athleticism.
Jalen needs some work on his handles and midrange/rim game. Probably polishing on his trey shot, too.
There is a reason why Self hyped him so much a few weeks ago. I trust what he sees in his potential more than any of us. Jalen runs the floor as good or better than the rest of the team. He goes after rebounds, and he just doesn’t have his scoring swagger back yet.
I suspect we will see him come on after Christmas. Extending practice time should help and Self can draw up more offense to include Jalen’s abilities. He looks a bit lost out there right now.
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@BeddieKU23 said in 2021-22 PER's & Stats:
@Marco said in 2021-22 PER's & Stats:
@Crimsonorblue22 said in 2021-22 PER's & Stats:
@Marco because we need him to get better!
I realize that… I guess what I was trying to say is, what if he doesn’t get better? Hard to believe that he could play as lousy as he has been, all season. But I mean, if he doesn’t start playing better soon?
Wilson just needs to find a way to get the lid off the basket. His shooting woes are why he’s where he is because 33% FG, 7% from 3, 35% from the line isn’t cutting it.
I’ll say this bluntly, he’s a lazy shooter and the numbers back it up. He should be a better shooter but we’ve yet to see it.
I agree with you I really do, I just don’t understand as he was quite a bit better in all phases in his shooting lat yr. - his Ft % is terrible. - he wasn’t that bad last yr, I think maybe like 68 % somewhere in that area last yr - -bette 3 pathetic this yr what’s happened?
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@jayballer67 said in 2021-22 PER's & Stats:
@BeddieKU23 said in 2021-22 PER's & Stats:
@Marco said in 2021-22 PER's & Stats:
@Crimsonorblue22 said in 2021-22 PER's & Stats:
@Marco because we need him to get better!
I realize that… I guess what I was trying to say is, what if he doesn’t get better? Hard to believe that he could play as lousy as he has been, all season. But I mean, if he doesn’t start playing better soon?
Wilson just needs to find a way to get the lid off the basket. His shooting woes are why he’s where he is because 33% FG, 7% from 3, 35% from the line isn’t cutting it.
I’ll say this bluntly, he’s a lazy shooter and the numbers back it up. He should be a better shooter but we’ve yet to see it.
I agree with you I really do, I just don’t understand as he was quite a bit better in all phases in his shooting lat yr. - his Ft % is terrible. - he wasn’t that bad last yr, I think maybe like 68 % somewhere in that area last yr - -better 3 pathetic this yr what’s happened?
His overall numbers last year weren’t good either, 41% FG, 31% from 3, 63% from the line. I dug even further into this. From the end of January to the end of the season Jalen was 46/117 from the field (39%) including 9 games of 33% shooting or less during that stretch.
So far he’s struggled even more shooting the ball and that’s a byproduct of his poor decision before the season started. He’s pressed since coming back and probably has struggled coming off the bench. Self thinks the light is going to come on for him but its a waiting game so far. If he doesn’t find some efficiency in his game I don’t see a reason for him even playing the role he currently has.
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@BeddieKU23 said in 2021-22 PER's & Stats:
@jayballer67 said in 2021-22 PER's & Stats:
@BeddieKU23 said in 2021-22 PER's & Stats:
@Marco said in 2021-22 PER's & Stats:
@Crimsonorblue22 said in 2021-22 PER's & Stats:
@Marco because we need him to get better!
I realize that… I guess what I was trying to say is, what if he doesn’t get better? Hard to believe that he could play as lousy as he has been, all season. But I mean, if he doesn’t start playing better soon?
Wilson just needs to find a way to get the lid off the basket. His shooting woes are why he’s where he is because 33% FG, 7% from 3, 35% from the line isn’t cutting it.
I’ll say this bluntly, he’s a lazy shooter and the numbers back it up. He should be a better shooter but we’ve yet to see it.
I agree with you I really do, I just don’t understand as he was quite a bit better in all phases in his shooting lat yr. - his Ft % is terrible. - he wasn’t that bad last yr, I think maybe like 68 % somewhere in that area last yr - -better 3 pathetic this yr what’s happened?
His overall numbers last year weren’t good either, 41% FG, 31% from 3, 63% from the line. I dug even further into this. From the end of January to the end of the season Jalen was 46/117 from the field (39%) including 9 games of 33% shooting or less during that stretch.
So far he’s struggled even more shooting the ball and that’s a byproduct of his poor decision before the season started. He’s pressed since coming back and probably has struggled coming off the bench. Self thinks the light is going to come on for him but its a waiting game so far. If he doesn’t find some efficiency in his game I don’t see a reason for him even playing the role he currently has.
Ya really poor numbers for sure , but even worse this year. - He was a good rebounds for us last year but just seems to be really pressing. We need him always a need for another scorer, cause you know and I know there WILL come a time CB and Oach both or one is just gonna be off , that’s where we need him and Remy both to pick it up. You have mention in other threads/posts that after this yr you think Jalen is gone no matter what - I beleive that also. Let’s just hope he gets his act together.
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Hopefully he has a breakout game coming up that gets him back on track.
Personally I think Jalen should stick around another year. With the roster the way its shaping up we are going to need him.
But the tea leaves certainly paint a different picture.
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Serious question about Jalen: how long do you give a guy to come around? At what point do you risk his being a liability at a critical point in a crucial game just to “get him going”?
I heard one of the announcers on the Mizzou broadcast suggest that some guys are just better when they start. For me, a guy with Jalen’s talent, or anyone at this level for that matter, should be able to produce no matter the role or the circumstances. I hope Bill continues to bring him off the bench until he shows us something and doesn’t reward him with a starter’s role just because he “should” be playing better or because he’s supposedly better when he starts. Don’t mean to pile on Jalen, but something is going on with him. You don’t just forget how to put the ball in the hoop when you have D-1 talent … do you?
Glad I’m not a coach.
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@drgnslayr he needs to figure that out, and fast. He lulls behind the 3 point line far too much.
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@tis4tim said in 2021-22 PER's & Stats:
Serious question about Jalen: how long do you give a guy to come around? At what point do you risk his being a liability at a critical point in a crucial game just to “get him going”?
I heard one of the announcers on the Mizzou broadcast suggest that some guys are just better when they start. For me, a guy with Jalen’s talent, or anyone at this level for that matter, should be able to produce no matter the role or the circumstances. I hope Bill continues to bring him off the bench until he shows us something and doesn’t reward him with a starter’s role just because he “should” be playing better or because he’s supposedly better when he starts. Don’t mean to pile on Jalen, but something is going on with him. You don’t just forget how to put the ball in the hoop when you have D-1 talent … do you?
Glad I’m not a coach.
That’s where I’m coming from…
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It is a good question. Since we want Jalen to succeed and help the team the how long part is as long as it takes. He’s coming off the bench so it’s a bit different then if he was starting. It is an adjustment when your used to being out there starting and being relied on. He was a volume scorer last year with below avg shooting numbers and so far this year that hasn’t changed, if anything his role has decreased his ability to make an impact. I was hoping we’d see an increase in efficiency from him especially in FG% and at the FT line. Hopefully he’s getting up extra shots
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@BeddieKU23 said in 2021-22 PER's & Stats:
It is a good question. Since we want Jalen to succeed and help the team the how long part is as long as it takes.
Thanks for the reply @BeddieKU23. I guess the deal for me is that he’s been unable to get his mojo back so far even in low leverage situations against lesser talent. We all know the road to a conference title is going to be very difficult this season and do we really want to risk a “W” short term for some long-term benefit that may or may not arrive?
Aside from the Remy/Self battle of wills, the Jalen storyline is becoming an intriguing “problem” to watch. I only hope Jalen figures it out quick to make moot the question of whether or not to play him.
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Last year, Jalen created his own offense. We had a team that lacked enough scoring. His numbers were okay considering he just made it all happen on his own. He needs to be integrated better into the offense. I don’t see him at all integrated now.
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Good point. But most of his issues center around not being able to put the ball in the hoop.
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Jalen should be the back-up 5. Would solve so many issues. Play JCL over Mitch. Line-ups with Jalen and another big have been bad.
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@BeddieKU23 said in 2021-22 PER's & Stats:
Good point. But most of his issues center around not being able to put the ball in the hoop.
And living only out on the 3 pt line.
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We are seeing none of the Jalen from last year… where he would drive hard in the paint. He just looks lost out there. And… he isn’t hitting his shots. Sign of confidence issues.
Kind of wondering if he is in Self’s “suffering box?” I have this feeling like there will come a day this year where he busts free and it will bring this team to a higher level.
Hope I’m right!
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Jalens a guy who can be so valuable to this team without scoring the ball especially the way Och and CB are playing. I hope he starts concentrating the other aspects of the game and stops pressing so much offensively. Play his role and I believe things will turn around for him. He’s just too good to be this irrelevant
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Confidence kills (at both ends of the spectrum). He’s a kid still figuring it out. Year 3 and its still an issue.
Jalen’s had some obstacles. Remember KU wasn’t his first choice and he came here after Beilein B-lined to the NBA momentarily. Then he missed a whole year with the injury. Came back motivated (after rumors were he considered leaving) and surprised most of this fan-base how prepared he was to contribute. We don’t beat some ranked teams last year without Jalen’s outstanding play. The 2nd half of the season was a bit of a letdown for him and I don’t think he’s shaken it yet. I really thought we’d see a more mature Jalen on the court and so far that just hasn’t happened. As I mentioned before and you did, if he has a game where the lid comes off the basket I think you see him turn it up a few notches. Saturday is a perfect day to get that rolling.
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Maybe Self is grooming him to be that valuable “6th man” this year? Not sure Jalen is psyched for that role.
Think about what kind of weapon he could be at 6th man? Coming in around the 14 minute mark in the first half… both teams settled into a tone of play and then here comes this guy with high energy, grabbing every available rebound and then pushing the tempo up the court… then physically taking it to the hole.
@BeddieKU23 … you may be on to something with that last post. He may be a very temperamental player that also may be a challenge to coach. I thought he would become a volume scorer… but true volume scorers all have bad memories on their last performances, especially the bad ones… even can’t remember what they did earlier in the same game.
At this point, it seems his issue is more than missing the first few games. One thing… he definitely seems to be lacking confidence.
Gosh… imagine we have 3 players averaging around 20 ppg?! That would be nuts and also would take even more pressure off Big Dave needing to put up numbers in the paint!
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The maturation process for some just takes longer. Look at the transformation of Ochai and Christian this season. Like so many before them when they become upperclassmen and lock in. I was really hoping Jalen was going to be in that group. We’ll see what happens. He’s got to embrace the role he’s in and keep grinding. That 6th man role is always a valuable one at KU.
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Development of CB has effected Jalens playing time. Out worked?
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@Crimsonorblue22 said in 2021-22 PER's & Stats:
Development of CB has effected Jalens playing time. Out worked?
CB and Och took huge leaps, Jalen seems to have become worse somehow (though I think there is a mental aspect).
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@BShark seriously can’t figure it out. He hit a down slide last yr, before the covid. He knows there’s no spot in the starting lineup. That’s mental. Bust your butt outside of practice.
