IARP update
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@drgnslayr said in IARP update:
I didn’t mention the financial aspect.
As someone who has extensively used our judicial system including working sometimes in the judicial system I can guarantee to you that just because some of these members have the background they have, they do not have more access to information over the NCAA. Garnering information legally is the only way their efforts can hold water in a legal setting and also not break laws.
Maybe Kansas feels positive of what happened in the federal investigation and thinking go this route will support those findings. That doesn’t mean the judgment goes our way. This group can find exactly the same info found in the federal case and come up with a completely different verdict.
I’m trying to imagine how KU’s legal team thought it was the route to go where there is no opportunity to appeal the results. Maybe you have an idea why KU would desire to go for this. Sounds like suicide to me unless they know something we don’t know. I’m betting they feel they still have a great case for federal court. The very basis of our legal system is to offer appeals. It’s anti-American to NOT have an appeal process.
This is not a court room and does not follow federal law. The IARP is judging this case based on NCAA bylaws. KU wanted to go this route because the IARP is not the NCAA is not specifically out for blood against KU like the NCAA is. KU at minimum will probably end up vacating the 2018 Final Four and every game Silvio DeSousa played that season because money changed hands in his recruitment making DeSousa ineligible. That much is indisputable. I also wouldn’t be surprised if KU vacates the games Cheick Diallo played in as well since he’s one of the other players in the report. The hope on KU’s part is to avoid a postseason ban and a show cause against Kurtis Townsend, both of which would almost certainly be part of the NCAA’s punishments against KU.
You claim to be very familiar with the US legal system and that not being able to appeal a ruling is not American, but yet you fail to realize what legal processes the IARP are analogous to and that’s a combination of an arbitration hearing and the Supreme Court. Both KU and the NCAA had to agree to recommend this case to the IARP similar to how cases end up in arbitration. Like the Supreme Court, the IARP gets to decide if they hear any case that gets recommended to them.
Neither one of those types of rulings in the US are appealable so does that mean going to arbitration is not American? Does that mean that the Supreme Court deciding to take a case and ruling on it is not American since Supreme Court rulings are not appealable either?
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@Texas-Hawk-10 The decisions are not directly appealable, but organizations are required to follow their own rules. Many federal courts have accepted jurisdiction to review a process ab initio where egregious violations of fundamental concepts of fairness have occurred. I have already extensively analyzed how I think the NCAA’s charged stemmed from violations of their own evidentiary and investigative rules. Kansas has not waived its right to sue in federal court, only the right to have the IARP decision reviewed on the merits.
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@mayjay said in IARP update:
@Texas-Hawk-10 The decisions are not directly appealable, but organizations are required to follow their own rules. Many federal courts have accepted jurisdiction to review a process ab initio where egregious violations of fundamental concepts of fairness have occurred. I have already extensively analyzed how I think the NCAA’s charged stemmed from violations of their own evidentiary and investigative rules. Kansas has not waived its right to sue in federal court, only the right to have the IARP decision reviewed on the merits.
There’s only one part of this case KU has any legal ground to file a lawsuit for and that’s corporate sponsors being classified as boosters. Even that’s not a slam dunk case because of how NCAA bylaws are currently written. That’s also something that would come down to letter vs. intent of the rule and probably result in the NCAA having to create a new section of their bylaws specifically regarding corporate sponsors like Adidas, Nike, and Under Armour that provides money to a school. By current letter of the bylaws, Adidas is a booster and there’s not any kind of real argument that can be made to dispute that other than that’s not the intent of those bylaws.
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@Texas-Hawk-10 Okay, you have decided it so no need for further discussion from me.
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First off… I appreciate your responses because I am not up to snuff on IARP and our connection to it.
In our court appellate system, it is typical to have an appeal process for arbitration… but both sides can agree to limit or forbid appeals. In this case, both sides agree to forbid appeals.
The US Supreme Court is the last stop for our appellate process but for typical appeals, the process ends sooner unless there is an area of their case that at least 4 SC justices see as important enough to consider hearing the case to give clarity to an area of the law by granting a writ of certiorari (beginning process to reach the court). The SC has never been about specifically addressing the case of a particular side and ruling an outcome. It is about making sure laws are applied correctly, not (for example) if the evidence weighs heavy enough to sway a decision. That process is conducted through a lower court.
There are two ways a case can reach the US SC… appeals advanced through the circuit courts or possibly appeals from state SCs and by process of original jurisdiction.
In rare situations, the US SC can hear original jurisdiction cases that have not gone through the appeals court process. In most cases, circuit court marks the end of appeals, unless the appeals court decides there is question to whether the lower courts had applied the law correctly in their decisions.
I would like to better understand why Kansas thinks this is the best route to take. And it’s not just Kansas, but Louisville and the other programs, too. Maybe it’s an admission of partial guilt and they thought this is the most expedient path because we are being punished through the entire delay process. Maybe they feel like we will receive a more impartial verdict from outsiders.
I know you follow this closely and I respect your opinion… why exactly do you think Kansas decided to go this route?
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I am not near - nor will I ever be - as informed or versed as others when it comes to the ins and outs or workings of our judicial system and or esoecially the NCAA, but to me what it comes down to is that the case is weak, and I believe that was the reason for KU deciding to go the IARP route. I hope they were right in their decision. Regardless of what happens (look at our recruiting), we have already been punished for going on three years now.
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@drgnslayr KU has acknowledged money changed hands during the recruitment of players mentioned in the report so they aren’t fighting very hard on those allegations, probably just that KU wasn’t aware of the payments. The biggest thing KU is fighting and why they wanted this case to go to the IARP is because of Adidas being ruled a booster. KU is hoping the IARP rules that because the NCAA has never accused a school of this before (along with Louisville and NC State) despite shoe companies being corporate sponsors of programs for decades now, that the NCAA can’t begin to selectively apply that rule and overturn those infractions which would have the most serious consequences.
At the end of the day, KU is going to receive some punishment because of Silvio, Preston, and Diallo. Forfeiture of games those guys played in, scholarship reductions, and probation all seem very likely. KU is trying to avoid a postseason ban which is much more likely to happen with the IARP ruling on the case than the NCAA.
The NC State case is the one to watch because that case went to the IARP before ours so will likely be ruled upon before ours. The reason to pay attention to that case is because NC State has a lot of similar accusations against them including Adidas being considered a booster. However the IARP rules on that charge against NCSU is also likely how they’ll rule it for KU as well.
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At the end of the day KU shouldn’t have recruited this trio. They knew it could backfire.
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Is my memory failing me… but didn’t Kansas acknowledge Adidas as a booster to help bring Silvio back? That was another move I didn’t really understand the logic.
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@Texas-Hawk-10 said in IARP update:
@drgnslayr KU has acknowledged money changed hands during the recruitment of players mentioned in the report so they aren’t fighting very hard on those allegations, probably just that KU wasn’t aware of the payments. The biggest thing KU is fighting and why they wanted this case to go to the IARP is because of Adidas being ruled a booster. KU is hoping the IARP rules that because the NCAA has never accused a school of this before (along with Louisville and NC State) despite shoe companies being corporate sponsors of programs for decades now, that the NCAA can’t begin to selectively apply that rule and overturn those infractions which would have the most serious consequences.
At the end of the day, KU is going to receive some punishment because of Silvio, Preston, and Diallo. Forfeiture of games those guys played in, scholarship reductions, and probation all seem very likely. KU is trying to avoid a postseason ban which is much more likely to happen with the IARP ruling on the case than the NCAA.
The NC State case is the one to watch because that case went to the IARP before ours so will likely be ruled upon before ours. The reason to pay attention to that case is because NC State has a lot of similar accusations against them including Adidas being considered a booster. However the IARP rules on that charge against NCSU is also likely how they’ll rule it for KU as well.
Yahtzee! And if Adidas is a booster then what about Nike and Under Armor? And was it KU that gave the money? What about Zion, what about Ayton? I don’t think the NCAA really wants to open this can…
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This post is deleted!
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Sometimes my motives come out slowly… especially if I am not well versed on the subject.
*Has anyone implicated the NCAA as a co-conspirator in these trials? Especially concerning Zion? With the level of corruption today being so rampant… why wouldn’t we vision the possibility the NCAA is corrupt beyond just being inept? Why would money and perhaps gifts come in the direction of the NCAA?
Who buys the theory that the NCAA is basically a bunch of “stupid saints?”
At what point can we state that ineptness or some closet animosity towards certain programs just doesn’t hold water as to explaining actions?
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Sounds like Louisville’s sentence could be released today
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@BShark Tough being a bag man in college hoops these days… Can’t even get officials to pay a few hundred thousand to sweep something under the rug.
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The first case for IARP was resolved today. NC St received 1 yr probation. Former coaches received show cause penalties.
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Maybe they try slapping probation on our players from receiving outside sponsorships? (bad joke)
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@BeddieKU23 said in IARP update:
The first case for IARP was resolved today. NC St received 1 yr probation. Former coaches received show cause penalties.
ya I posted this also , saying I think if people think we are getting out of this clean as a whistle, I think they are in for a surprise They got show cause with TWO level one violations - -Gottfried got a year show cause - -I think there is a very good chance of Bill getting TWO year show cause , multiple year probation and one year post season ban - -If NC State is getting thsi for TWO level one’s I just think the IARP and the NCAA are trying to make themselves look good and make an example out of KU. NC State Assistant got SIX years of Show Cause -I could see our Assistant getting as much and more likely then not removal from staff. - -we ARE NOT getting off scott free. this with NC State pretty much shows as much
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No one yet has explained to me why other cases, with active distribution of money by coaches, are directly applicable to ours.
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The sad part is that nothing the NCAA nor IARP does makes any sense. So, who knows how Kansas will be punished, and when.
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Read more about the penalities on NC State today. - -Kind of Confusing s I thought they were charged with two level one violations. - - This article that I read from another KU site said they had 5 Level one , 4 level two and two level three violations.
Reduction of Scholarships in 22/23 yr. Vacating any wins that Smith played in. - -They said the level of the violations were severe enough and they considered post season ban - -BUT they considered post season play and being banned from that but said they took into consideration that they didn’t want to punish the current ,members of the team for the past BUT did want the School to be aware of the severe of the violations. – hmmmm that sounds good/promising
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I don’t like that fact that we can’t contest the outcome. To trust anything to these people with questionable motives seems completely irrational and risky.
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@jayballer67 said in IARP update:
This article that I read from another KU site said they had 5 Level one , 4 level two and two level three violations.
So… an inside straight! lol
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@drgnslayr said in IARP update:
@jayballer67 said in IARP update:
This article that I read from another KU site said they had 5 Level one , 4 level two and two level three violations.
So… an inside straight! lol
lol - - -ya buddy
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The NC State ruling was the one I was most interested in because that’s the most similar case to KU’s. No post season ban for NC State is encouraging for what should be coming in regards to KU’s punishment.
I’m still expecting KU to have to vacate the 2017-18 games Silvio played in which obviously includes the Final Four banner that season along with probation and scholarship reductions. I’m also expecting Townsend to get hit with a show-cause tag, maybe not 6 years because it doesn’t appear like the case is as strong against him as it was against Orlando Early. I will also be curious if Self gets a 1 year show-cause.
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@Texas-Hawk-10 said in IARP update:
The NC State ruling was the one I was most interested in because that’s the most similar case to KU’s. No post season ban for NC State is encouraging for what should be coming in regards to KU’s punishment.
I’m still expecting KU to have to vacate the 2017-18 games Silvio played in which obviously includes the Final Four banner that season along with probation and scholarship reductions. I’m also expecting Townsend to get hit with a show-cause tag, maybe not 6 years because it doesn’t appear like the case is as strong against him as it was against Orlando Early. I will also be curious if Self gets a 1 year show-cause.
The biggest reason NC State did not get hit with post season ban was, the IARP considered it but came to the conclussion that they didn’t want to punish the current members of the team , but yet wanted to make it clear to NC State how serious these were , which is about the only good thing I see as far as we go - -they don’t get post ban I don’t think we will either. As it boils down to the same amount of Level one - which is 5. - -I think Townsend WILL be hit with show cause and if not the same amount then just a little less, he will be lucky to retain his job, as I think the University it’self when this is said and done will let him go if nothing else to try and make themselves look better.
I fully believe the NCAA/IARP is looking to make an example of the BIG FISH in this case ( KU ) to put fear in the other Schools to show them they mean business on violations - -I think it’s bullshit but the NCAA has had it in for KU for some time, -with the IARP and them together they want KU to pay well the NCAA does. - I can see probation multiple years maybe 2 and I also think Coach Self will get show cause just like Gottfried. - -Either way I think we will find out something before to much longer. I guess these cases were handed over to the IARP and in order it was NC State - -then Memphis – Then KU after that so it could be not to much longer. hoping for the best
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@mayjay said in IARP update:
No one yet has explained to me why other cases, with active distribution of money by coaches, are directly applicable to ours.
Uno!
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Yes… makes sense IARP throws the book at us:
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@drgnslayr said in IARP update:
Yes… makes sense IARP throws the book at us:
Yahtzee! What I tell you about NIL? Leave Oklahoma where you already had a massive NIL deal (even though Riley left) and sign with… Eastern Michigan? And after next season, where to? Lol. He will, afterall, only be a true sophomore.
It is starting to smell, is it not? I mean, why punish anyone for any previous violations at this point or even have an NCAA? Or, do we actually need a governing body with rules? Things to ponder…
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Rumors are flying Self and Townsend getting suspended for the next two postseasons
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Tanned. Rested. Ready.
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@FarmerJayhawk i will boycott basketball.
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@approxinfinity LOL! I wonder how many people actually moved to other countries after the 2016 and 2020 elections?
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@mayjay i will boycott though. The love will be beaten out of me if kansas gets a ban.
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@approxinfinity said in IARP update:
@mayjay i will boycott though. The love will be beaten out of me if kansas gets a ban.
To be clear, only Self and Townsend. KU would still play
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@FarmerJayhawk said in IARP update:
Rumors are flying Self and Townsend getting suspended for the next two postseasons
Dam - usually where there is smoke there is fire- - that sucks green eggs
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@jayballer67 said in IARP update:
@FarmerJayhawk said in IARP update:
Rumors are flying Self and Townsend getting suspended for the next two postseasons
Dam - usually where there is smoke there is fire- - that sucks green eggs
Nothing is official on that
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@FarmerJayhawk hmm. that actually could be quite interesting.
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Norm has HC experience. If this is the punishment sign me up.
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@JAYHAWKFAN214 said in IARP update:
@jayballer67 said in IARP update:
@FarmerJayhawk said in IARP update:
Rumors are flying Self and Townsend getting suspended for the next two postseasons
Dam - usually where there is smoke there is fire- - that sucks green eggs
Nothing is official on that
I’ realize that.
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So do we believe there is much truth to this latest rumor ? - -Sure got them fired up on TOS. - if it is true , are we talking about 2 Seasons starting with this Season. - - I’m more concerned actually about having a show cause put on Self which in turn I think he would just say screw it
Having said that though IF that were to happen bottom line is KU was fine before Coach Self - -we would be fine AFTER Coach Self. - If it came down to it , don’t think we would have any problem what so ever finding ANOTHER big time Coach
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@jayballer67 Wasn’t the source of that rumor from Mike Vernon? Vernon is the one that said Remy was unhappy, and was leaving the team. Remember when Self cursed during the press conference? He was cursing Vernon and his rumor mill. Vernon also told everyone we were going to the B10. Done deal. Now Vernon is back with another rumor. I don’t know if the latest rumor is true, but I would wait until someone legitimate confirmed it. Vernon is considered a whack job by many KU fans.
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@Jethro said in IARP update:
@jayballer67 Wasn’t the source of that rumor from Mike Vernon? Vernon is the one that said Remy was unhappy, and was leaving the team. Remember when Self cursed during the press conference? He was cursing Vernon and his rumor mill. Vernon also told everyone we were going to the B10. Done deal. Now Vernon is back with another rumor. I don’t know if the latest rumor is true, but I would wait until someone legitimate confirmed it. Vernon is considered a whack job by many KU fans.
ya it was. That’s why I was asking exactly how much truth there was to this- - -if anyone knew. - -I mean I suppose it’s possible— -anything is possible , what I’m more worried about then anything else when this is all said and done and that’s them hitting Coach with Show cause- - -and he be like - - -I’m out
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I wouldn’t think we’d bring in a coach just to coach post season. Wouldn’t we have the ast. Guys that have been with the team the whole time? Makes sense. I don’t know if Danny is just a temp this yr, and if he would just volunteer and hang out with us all yr as an extra. We can only have so many, right?
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Timing of this rumor is suspect.
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@Crimsonorblue22 said in IARP update:
I wouldn’t think we’d bring in a coach just to coach post season. Wouldn’t we have the ast. Guys that have been with the team the whole time? Makes sense. I don’t know if Danny is just a temp this yr, and if he would just volunteer and hang out with us all yr as an extra. We can only have so many, right?
We would probably use one of our assistant coaches
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@JAYHAWKFAN214 thx!
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@Crimsonorblue22 said in IARP update:
I wouldn’t think we’d bring in a coach just to coach post season. Wouldn’t we have the ast. Guys that have been with the team the whole time? Makes sense. I don’t know if Danny is just a temp this yr, and if he would just volunteer and hang out with us all yr as an extra. We can only have so many, right?
It wouldn’t make sense to bring an outside coach in because they wouldn’t know the personnel or calls for the season.
