Muck Fizzou
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Fun with stats (or not so fun).
If you took a quick glance at the stats, you’d think Kansas may have won.
FG attempts KU 63, MU 52
Made FGs KU 25, MU 23
Made 3 pt shots KU 8, MU 4
Rebounds KU 40, MU 29
Assists KU 13, MU 8
But then it gets ugly
Turnovers KU 22, MU 11
and the game winning stat for MU
FTs KU 9-11, MU 26-31
that there is pathetic, again.
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The sign said long haired freaky people need not apply. So I tucked my hair up under my hat and I went in to ask him why
Sorry. Just wanted to think happy thoughts for a minute
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An Arlo take? Nice man.
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Flory is??? Zeke hesitates on his shots over and over and misses them. Not sure about AJ he is so stoic I can’t read him. All our new guys have a what just happened look in time outs. Who can create their own shots on this version of Jayhawks? Juan, Zeke, Coit and maybe AJ a little bit. Our offense can be really bad. What type of team gets down by 13/20 points within the first part of games? I was hopeful this year to not be a low 70’s to mid 60’s team. Ughhhhh! Hunter played tough inside.
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Zeke was a minus -23 today woof. The 3 guys that were brought in to score combined for 9 points. That isn’t going to cut it. This offense has too many guys dribbling around just to dribble around. The ball screen defense is the same garbage it was a year ago. Zeke needs to be benched, he’s too much of a liability on defense if he ain’t making shots.
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“I don’t think we had them ready to play,” Self said. “(Missouri’s) pressure and their length obviously was the key element in the game the first 25 minutes, and we didn’t do a good job of understanding that or playing to that."
This kinda sums it up for me. how is it even possible that the coaches can’t coach em up properly? Before or during the game. Just don’t get it.
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Starting to firmly believe you can’t build a title winner around Dajuan, KJ and Hunter.
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@rockchalkjayhawk How come missery who didn’t win an sec game last year can out athlete us and have more length
Hmmm maybe Bill’s eye for talent and roster construction within the portal sucks??? His system sucks for even veterans who transfer in to get acclimated?
Supposedly it’s on timing and when it’s off it’s real bad
@TYOHawk - you just now figuring that out?
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@kuballin10 said in Muck Fizzou:
@rockchalkjayhawk How come missery who didn’t win an sec game last year can out athlete us and have more length
Hmmm maybe Bill’s eye for talent and roster construction within the portal sucks??? His system sucks for even veterans who transfer in to get acclimated?
Supposedly it’s on timing and when it’s off it’s real bad
@TYOHawk - you just now figuring that out?
I tried to hold out hope due to our portal additions. But with Coach’s weird rotations and our transfers seemingly being neutered I don’t have much hope.
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@rockchalkjayhawk Has too much of an emotional attachment to certain players
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IDK. Down by 17 at one point in the first half due to a slow start. Start the second half and give up a 16 to 6 run.
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@rcjhdraft said in Muck Fizzou:
@rockchalkjayhawk Has too much of an emotional attachment to certain players
This is 100 percent an issue with our program right now.
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Every player on this roster has significant holes in their game and every line up combination Self can utilize has at least one glaring weakness on one end of the court.
Self did upgrade the athleticism of the roster, but he over corrected and brought in a bunch of guys who either don’t try on defense (Storr and Mayo) or just aren’t good defenders (Griffen and Coit).
The newcomers that can play defense (Moore, Bidunga, and Passmore) are offensive liabilities at this stage. I do believe Passmore and Bidunga will be serviceable offensively next season. The rumored Moore for Tillman swap doesn’t help that issue as Tillman isn’t a great natural athlete based on scouting reports so he won’t fix the defensive issues in the front court.
This was something I was saying all offseason about the roster construction for this year being very flawed and the incoming players skills not complimenting the returning players skill sets.
Next season is what I’m much more looking forward to because KU will have a group whose games compliment each other better. Jackson, Peterson, Passmore, Tillman, and Bidunga is a good line up that is much more complete than this season and that’s before any other transfers come in.
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@Zabudda Arlo? What does he have to do with it?
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On offense it’s the same issue as last season Hunt has 2 or 3 guys with him 90% of the time because they is zero threat from 3 at this point. They are daring Juan, Zeke, AJ and Rylen to shoot it. If this team actually moved the ball and had a shooter or two they’d be fine. We could easily be a better team next season with out the trio of Juan, KJ and Hunt
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@mayjay I wasn’t going to say anything. Mine was Five Man Electric Band. Or Tesla, I guess sigh
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Stunning that Coit - almost a portal afterthought - starts, get 26 minutes and 14 points. Our two marquee portal pickups - 2-9 combined for 5 points; toss in 3 TOs, 6 fouls and zero assists…
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@TYOHawk He about did it to Remy
Had Kalkenbrenner been healthy we’d been a second round exit in 22. That saved Self from literally having 6 straight second round exits and many blowouts just like usc or zags
That’s unacceptable at KU
Self is like that though…I’d thought he’d matured but he’s more stubborn than Bobby knight.
If his “guys” miss stupid shots like kj floaters or kj open 3’s they continue to play but Rylen rides the pine when he was on a final four team
Oats roster construction with Clifford and Nelson >>>> Hunter and kj
I knew selfs valuation was bad when he raved about an average pg versus the stud in the game he was there to see……
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I never saw the game today. Had to work.
But let me guess… not enough hustle… played slow and deliberate and predictable. Dug a deep hole we couldn’t quite get out of.
I see TOs were an issue. So if we played slow, we were probably overthinking. Our guys need to just come mentally prepared where they don’t have to think much while playing… just perform at full speed.
Does my comment fit the game, or not?
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podcast on way home from meeting new granddaughter (makes this loss not sting a ton TBH) said we have lost 10 of 13 true road games now. This isn’t good. I’m at a loss and I didn’t even watch the game. Such a promising start to the season has a lot of question marks.
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@drgnslayr someone you used to know would call them pu$$ies
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@wissox Swain and other posters supposedly “in the know” saying somethings off with the locker room
This is exactly what I predicted when you bring in good players and neuter them along with the quick hook while the pets get unlimited leash and suck
Self did this yet again to himself but his pride makes him think he’s got it all figured out
Dude needs a legit humbling and boy is he getting it with the L’a we about to stack
His judge of talent isn’t great and his ability to integrate them is unfathomably bad
Instead of pushing Remy properly he’d seen annoyed with him……just horrible job at helping players excel and be their best versus mind f’ing them to play passively
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@kuballin10 I don’t even cheer as hard as I did when Ol Roy was here. I am unmotivated.
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@nuleafjhawk I miss that high flying offense but man did we always suck on D
Wish the Iowa boys could have delivered in 2003
Self at least got us over the hump in 2008 with jrs and srs - that took a Memphis collapse
We’ve had a ton of early flameouts due to his style of play….
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Glad I didn’t end up watching this shit show today. They better get this straightened, and straightened out like now, Same dam song - same song second verse.— -24 turnovers is just not acceptable We can’t play every game at home in the Phog, where by chance we get a lot of favorable calls and other teams fan base is sure to let us know about that – which to a degree they are right.
AJ Storr is a BAD fit, plays no defense, a lot of times looks dis interested just a really bad fit , kind of like Hawkins for K/State-- has for sure under preformed, hmmm , Storr , Hawkins must be a big 10 thing.
Yet for some here might want to pay attention already this year in Basketball KU by far is not the only team stinking up the place- - Arizona stinks- – U Conn is not that great - - as of right now anyways, - - Baylor getting beat multiple times , that’s just naming three of the prominent teams there are others that suck too.
More FYI the Big Twelve in General this season sucks, this Conference is in no way the power conference it has been the past years. The SEC is by far the dominant Conference , not even close. - They are probably going to get twelve in the NCAA been mentioned by several outlet’s and couldn’t agree more, talk about their whole Conference will end the Season in a tourney - -NCAA’s or NIT.
I wouldn’t want to guess who is winning the Big Twelve, right now for sure no dominant team, going to be ugly. Again KU better get their act together - out of our three so called prize portal transfers, very easily turn into a bitch of a Season unless they figure it out, only Mayo has at least play ok in most games, maybe not today but sure the hell better then Storr , Griffen looks lost
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@SlimShaddy54 ISU
Otz may be better team builder and coach this year and last than Bill
Heck Mark Pope has UK looking legit with his offensive schemes and all his brand new transfers (only 1 came from byu that plays)
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@nuleafjhawk I knew it was 5MEB, never heard of Tesla! One of my favorite songs from oh-so-many years ago.
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@SlimShaddy54 Storr was not great but I feel that’s more on self. Storr was a known gunner coming out of the portal and self has given him zero leeway and let guys like Kj and Dajuan chuck up shots and pout on the court.
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AJ’s the pouter! Body language is bad. He needs to man up and play for on name on the front of the jersey, it’s Kansas! See man see ball. We taught that, learned that when we were little! Man up!
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@Crimsonorblue22 Body language was rather bad in general today
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@rcjhdraft said in Muck Fizzou:
@SlimShaddy54 Storr was not great but I feel that’s more on self. Storr was a known gunner coming out of the portal and self has given him zero leeway and let guys like Kj and Dajuan chuck up shots and pout on the court.
Playing favorites will have ramifications
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Playing guys w/bad attitudes is worse.
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@Crimsonorblue22 To quote the best movie of all time
“Attitude reflects leadership….captain”
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@BShark Legit D1 players are tired of the favoritism and from what I just heard wish they were back in bama….
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Coaches knew what they were getting in AJ. Trying to make a round hole with square peg. Gotta get guys that are fits and he isn’t one of them currently.
Hopefully this was just a bad week and there will be good that comes out of it. Otherwise, we are in for a rough ride if that’s what this team really is. Both Creighton and Missouri brought different styles of pressure on defense and Self and his team were not even prepared to handle it.
Starting lineup had 18 turnovers and a majority of them were not good, getting the ball inbounds, getting past half court, making first pass to initiate offense was a major challenge.
Juan shot 11-35, 4-14 from 3 this past week. Teams baited him to do exactly what he did. We were supposed to have plenty of offense where he didn’t need to be the offense but here, we are again, and it worked. Zeke is 6-28 from 3 since UNC.
Mayo, Griffen, Storr, Coit all averaging half the ppg they averaged last year. Not a good look for transfers coming here. Everyone is down but Harris. This offense is a mess.
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@BeddieKU23 You last paragraph is the hard truth right now
Between not integrating transfers better and not running plays to get those three open shots we are really struggling
Trying to have the little 3 carry the scoring load like last year didn’t turn out well nor will it this year
Hope Self is the mature adult and finds a way to break the harden barrier that is these transfers. Should be open communication with him actively listening to their frustrations and trying to get on the same page with how they feel and how that shows up in their play
He’s admitted to being in aj’s head but that’s not the only one (I got bama ties last night I found out about through a client who played there back in the day but still is connected with the progrum)
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That is from a kinda protest song from the Vietnam era by Arlo Guthrie called Signs which was pointing out the conservative thinking about the drug and freedom culture fueled by the summer of love in 1968? Started on the coasts and reached Kansas about 1971 or so. The draft and the dishonesty from the military, LBJ was awful, and it was our first war that had 24/7 on the ground coverage showing the politicos and glory seekers in a new light. I know a lot more because I was a scribe working for the brass who realized that having draftees in the shit when they didn’t want to be there was a big danger to their fellow soldiers. Supposed to have your buddies back and vice versa was getting iffy at best. It started with discharging about anyone who wanted out with a generic discharge of "less than honorable conditions or expiration of service. Started about 1971 and “casual platoons” were based bound until due process of about 11 months discharged them. We/they worked on changing the process and by the end of 1972 or so separation from service was accomplished in less than one month. Ha. More than you wanted to know I’m sure.
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The season is about 1/4 done and overall the least reliable numbers to go by but I can’t let that stop me. We are a low scoring team with holes in our defense. It doesn’t look like the team is enjoying themselves which allows us posters to not be happy either. We are like a bowl of jello that has just been put in the fridge and has yet to jell. My question is what color of jello? I hope BShark isn’t banning for excessive whatever I am.
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@rcjhdraft The problem with that is Storr is/was a black hole , you get him the ball your not getting it back , he is a Cancer and what am hearing part of a problem in the locker room- watch his actions on the Court after he gets pulled Talk about pouting
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@kuballin10 Don’t let the door hit him in the ass on his way out. - -He found his way in he can sure the hell find his way out
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Storr’s +/- yesterday was +14. Don’t know what to make of it exactly.
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The transfers are getting open looks, wide open!
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@SlimShaddy54 said in Muck Fizzou:
@rcjhdraft The problem with that is Storr is/was a black hole , you get him the ball your not getting it back , he is a Cancer and what am hearing part of a problem in the locker room- watch his actions on the Court after he gets pulled Talk about pouting
I’ve been looking, but haven’t noticed Storr pouting at all. Seems lively enough
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@rockchalkjayhawk ha, you better look again, his whole aura , body language mercy
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We knew it was going to take time for this team to gel with the new faces. Seemed like they had it together until this week for some reason. Both crowds impacted them negatively, both defensive game plans impacted them. Creighton and Missouri had known ways of how they wanted to attack KU and had no resistance especially in the first half in doing so. It does seem like a lot of these guys need to make shots to be engaged/play well. Defensively this group is a mess and does not really have a stopper to depend on so defense isn’t going to be this teams calling card. We’ve seen KJ, Griffen and Harris “D Up” for games but rarely do we get those games as a collective. There’s a lot more to work on then the ranking they had would suggest.
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Man, this thread…
People bashing Self and somehow it’s all on him?? These fn players get PAID NOW. How about STFU, quit pouting, and do what the coach says? You know the coach who knows what it takes to win.
I made my third trip to Kansas for the UNC game from my home in Ohio this season, mostly because my son who’s 14 enjoys it. The Fieldhouse and Coach Self are the main draws now because the players change yearly in the NIL era so it’s not for them anymore. Seeing Mayo, the local kid, have a great game that night was refreshing. I’ve loved college basketball for a long time, but all of this is getting toxic and tiring. Once Self retires I’ll probably lose interest.
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@BeddieKU23 Well be our luck now because ranking enough lower they won’t think they need to work as hard - - Ranked 10th, actually they are not as low as I thought they might be. – I’m not real sure they are a top 10 team at this point.
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@BigBad Well said. I’ve tried to say before, if it was acceptable by the NCAA regulation, after performances like this last week if he could get away with it Coach Self would make sure these guys had an understanding about the game of basketball
Thing is a Coach can only do so much, he can grill these kids , keep running the same things , basic things and such but at the end of the day it’s the players responsibility to handle business, He can’t go out on the floor , bring the ball up the floor , make the right passes , make the right decisions , get the rebounds , set the screens , defend the ball , play the pick and roll on defense , That falls on the players
Coach doesn’t have time to baby sit some of these guys - -guys that think they should start - -play 30/33/35 minutes a game without proving their case and showing they deserve those things.- -There is not a single person in this chat room that doesn’t know that if you don’t play defense or at least try to play defense then your not going to play. There are some players that think there is only one end the court - -the offensive end, but even then you would think there was some deadly formula on the back boards that will be fatal if they should by accident try and get after a offensive rebound.
You have certain players that just don’t want to try and defend, they just want to play the offensive end, and don’t do a very good job of that either , by making bad decisions with very bad shot selection , forced shots and errant dum passes.
I’ll give Flory & Passmore a little bit of a pass with this right now- -they are Freshmen still learning , but when you have fifth , sixth yr players- -experienced portal players that’s play college ball when your having them play like they are and some it shows as long as they are getting that NIL - it’s like eh, I’m not playing defense , I’m not worried about effort, they don’t give a dam about who they are representing as long as they have their NIL they are good to go. IF there are players that are wishing they were back at Alabama , or Wisconsin or where the frick ever I’d be the first one showing them the door. You want out?- -then get the hell out and don’t let the door hit you in the ass on the way out. We want kids here at KU that WANT TO BE HERE because of our rich Basketball history, not just NIL
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@BeddieKU23 So, just posing the question - why wouldn’t it take even much more time to gel at UK, with both portal additions and a new coach???
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@BigBad I think the majority of the blame is squarely on Selfs shoulders. The team that he constructed wasn’t ready to play. He is basically in the role of coach and GM of this program. He hand picked these players, so yes it is on him he has to have accountability for this. As I’ve stated and others 2022 likely saved his job. Not to go full blown Kensucky fan on here but he’s has the talent to win a national title every other year on average.
