10am Start, Thurs WISCONSIN
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@stoptheflop said in 10am Start, Thurs WISCONSIN:
Weird, both teams ended the game 24/62, 38.7% from the field. I guess that’s why it was such a close game. Really disappointed with our guys. But, we got the W (sure doesn’t fell like a win, thought).
Even good teams have days like these. The thing is good teams find a way to win - ugly sure, but we will take the win and move on
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Zach needs more minutes. He actually made a post move and shot a little hook. If one three drops the bucket will look bigger
Juan needs to shoot the three more. Hit one in the first half but never even looked at the rim again. Had a great play when it was 2 on 1 and he was on D
Gradey needs more shots and the seniors need to get it to him. Jalen drove late second half and didn’t even look to kick it to a wide open Gradey.
This isn’t the ochai type led team it is the I want to show the nba what I got team
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@jayballer67 we’ve had this our last 4 games. It is who we are not some anomaly
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@kuballin10 said in 10am Start, Thurs WISCONSIN:
@jayballer67 we’ve had this our last 4 games. It is who we are not some anomaly
Again Good times find a way to win - -separates good from average
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I know this even though we won we better find some other people that can play and score other then our starting four. - -Yesufu needs to sit. - -he is terrible. Zach can understand a little lots of rust , WE need MJ to produce - -but you can’t produce if you can’t get on the floor - We need Bobby more , gonna take time for Udeh - -& Zuby and I do believe on down the road this year they will be better.
They were talking the thing today was they didn’t see the floor was match up -just bad match ups - -GOT to get more point production , you saw today get a guard on Brady - lock him don - -KJ no threat - -then you have – 3 on 5 - - therre is no way Jalen can be the man every game. Thank GOD Kevin stayed with it , can’t expect that many from him every game just not that type of guy.
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Did I miss anything?
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@DanR Basically no
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@kuballin10 said in 10am Start, Thurs WISCONSIN:
Zach needs more minutes. He actually made a post move and shot a little hook. If one three drops the bucket will look bigger
After today I’m fine if he transfers at semester. Play Zuby more.
More or less agree with the rest. Wisconsin schemed Gradey out of the game but we could have also done a better job to involve him.
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@BShark Hard disagree. Zach is the only big with any offensive game. Getting him going and being serviceable is hugely important to the long term success of this team. Teams already know KJ, Udeh, and Zuby pose zero risk on offense other than catching lobs and that results in defenses packing the paint and making it much harder for our guards and wings to drive. Zach is the one who can open that up for everyone else because if he starts making some outside shots, he has to be guarded out there resulting in either a mismatch somewhere to be exploited or lanes open for Wilson, Harris, and Dick to drive and get to the FT line more.
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@BShark he’s literally the only guy in 5 games to make a post move and get a shot up.
He needs to be the guy.
I wanted Zuby and Udeh but they can’t catch lobs, can’t finish around the rim and are atrocious defensively. When they go to block shots they fly out of bounds and give up put backs. I want them but they aren’t ready
Joe needs to sit and Bobby granted he saved us is awful. Dude didn’t get to the paint anytime and didn’t even look at the rim when he had the ball.
Bill has to play Gradey even if he’s a defensive liability because the Wilson - McCullar show won’t win anything worthwhile. Gradey needs to take his lumps defensively and respond when it’s his turn.
Gradey half the time doesn’t even touch the ball when on the offensive side due to the two guys trying to impress nba scouts. Jalen is a grown man but for us to take the next step he needs to admit he can drive draw three guys and kick out for a trey.
Offensively we are a joke if we played zags, Texas, unc we’d get beat handily (and yes, I watched Portland they have shooters). Would have been nice to have Nance as our 5 man.
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@Texas-Hawk-10 Harris needs to learn to draw contact. He drove and missed some of his running one handers but at least he attacked.
Gradey needs to just touch the ball more.
Zach is the play he’s looked awful until today he looked better.
Kj is unstoppable if he just drove hard right like Wilson did all last year. He literally could score 10 a game catch it at top of the key or elbow and blow by his guy because his first step is quick. He blocks shots and contests because he has a Quick first leap.
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I like the idea of Zach but he needs to actually produce something. We have to start getting something from the bench but especially the 5 spot.
If you take out last year from the equation on Kenpom well
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@BShark said in 10am Start, Thurs WISCONSIN:
I like the idea of Zach but he needs to actually produce something. We have to start getting something from the bench but especially the 5 spot.
If you take out last year from the equation on Kenpom well
Zach is the one who provides the most overall upside at the 5 spot. The light won’t come on for him sitting on the bench not playing. We saw last year that he has a toughness to him and can rebound.
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I hope he can turn it around. Honestly if he could get good enough to start that would be ideal.
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I still see what you see with Zach… just hope he gets enough PT to work it out.
His biggest pluses to me is his court awareness, foot speed, and passing. Maybe the trey gets worked out, too… but if he can provide these other things it will be a huge plus.
I do think he has potential to be a decent defender and rebounder, too. Basketball IQ!
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@Texas-Hawk-10 exactly - Bill is all about practice and some guys aren’t great in practice. I’d rather have a guy who when the lights come on produces. Can’t find that out with Bill’s methods which is wrong.
You can practice until the cows come home but when it’s a real game things are completely different
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The good - we won a game we really didn’t deserve to. We’ve given 3 teams their only loss. JW is doing all he can to carry the team. The not so good - we thought the strength of this team was its depth. Against 2 Power 5 schools, the bench has been atrocious. 2 points - and that on a wing and a prayer - in 44 minutes. Not contributing much of anything else. Sadly, Joe has been awful. It means the starters are having to play 35 minutes plus. That isn’t sustainable. Our entire offense in the 2nd half was Kevin and JW basically drawing fouls. I admire the boys grit and fight, but giving up 43 in a half to a team that only scored that amount in the game the night to Dayton isn’t a recipe for sustained success.
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Im excited to see couple more years of KJ and what his ceiling is. Been impressed with a lot of things he’s done.
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I can’t believe how poor JYs play has been, his confidence is shaken up. We need him to get in the groove.
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Here’s what I wrote on Buckys5thquarter last night:
“Wisconsin will neutralize Gradey Dick I think but he has a super quick trigger which led to 6 first half 3’s today. KU has no superskilled inside bigs right now. Jalen Wilson is a slasher type that works super hard on rebounds and he’ll need to be kept off the glass. The point guard Harris is super tough, rarely turns it over, takes charges, steals the ball, a real disrupter. But not a real deep squad and adjusting to 3 great players leaving. I think it will be closer than people think.”
How’d I do in my prediction?
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@wissox well done, Benedict!
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@approxinfinity was wondering if my membership as a charter member of the Bucket would have been revoked, or is the board still meeting on that issue?
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I’m sure today was probably one of your favorite games ever
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Some Badger fans are talking about Clemence was touching when he passed out to McCullers for the tying 3.
https://twitter.com/RedBlueWildKat/status/1595843306356985859?s=20&t=grOYRt1OSDjSCnw9JIWROQ
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@wissox In real time it looked like he passed before touching.
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@wissox it was a solid assessment. Gard had a good plan for us for sure.
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@BeddieKU23 It really delivered. I didn’t want the Badgers to be embarrassed. I wanted KU to win but would’ve been happy for a big win for UW. Badger fans by and large expected to get rocked so they’re quite content actually. Maybe relief because they scored 43 in the 2nd half (same as the previous game total!) rediscovering some offense.
Putting the KU hat back on FT shooting and some bad turnovers really fueled the comeback. I’m not sure why Zuby and Udeh didn’t play. Maybe Norm should be the head coach!
People on the other side were complaining about the two flop calls against UW but thought Jalen should have been whistled for it when Wahl drove on him late in the game. I told them Bill Self would have killed Jalen if he had tried to flop to draw a charge and instead just gave up an easy layup like that, especially in crunch time. I think Jalen got his feet tangled.
As for the two Wisconsin flops it’s a really dumb rule. Tell the refs not to reward flops by calling fouls when a kid flops. If a kid wants to look dumb and fall while shooting a three then let him look dumb.
Really looking forward to tomorrow night. Should be a fun game and KU should prevail over Rocky Top by a few.
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I’m sure glad we won, but take no pleasure in beating Wisconsin. I’ve always been a Packer fan and had some of my best times with people from this great state and also Minnesota.
Now about the game… we are all about Dajuan running the show and when things aren’t going smoothly, we look mediocre. Two elements are key for this team; defense, and passing. We were lucky that we had just enough to pull this one out. Our defense leads to offense, and our passes can make us look like the best team in the nation. UW played tenacious defense and put some struggle into our passing so we often flipped to individuals, like JWil, bailing us out of possessions.
This was a game that exposed GD. He has still soooo much to learn about basketball, even though he truly is amazing as a freshman. He’s going to have to learn to shake his man to create distance to get his shot off. Right now, he vanishes in some games because he doesn’t quite know what to do. But he is very intelligent… give him time.
Kevin… please… please stop taking treys early in games. lol Let the flow develop before you start pumping treys.
Self is smiling now. This is a game we are fortunate enough to win, while Coach has plenty of ammunition for practice to wake up these guys and teach them more. Our offense is still very much undeveloped. The lobs just aren’t there yet and we keep forcing them and creating TOs. Lots of missed timing, miscommunication, and just lack of team flow. But heck… it’s just November! Aren’t we all expecting too much too early? I’m impressed that we are still undefeated and we are the #1 targeted team in the nation since we are still National Champions until the next one is named… preferably us again!
Of course our bench looks like crap… and it will until we develop more defined roles for players, including bench players.
I was glad to see Zach’s number get called again and hope he gets more reps. I don’t think him bombing treys will be our salvation this year… but his other gifts can certainly be a part of building us into a very unique, difficult team to play by March!
Shout out to Bobby! I was just stating how important he will be to this team and he just earned some gravy points! Bravo!
Have to admit… I’ll be shocked if we win this Bahama tournament. I wasn’t expecting it.
Double thumbs up for KJ! Those two court dives were monumental and he is fighting hard to earn that 5 spot. All the other bigs will have to fight him for those minutes… good luck fellas… gonna need it! I’m starting to see a permanent role for KJ on this team involving plenty of PT.
Statistics can be misleading… look at the +/- line. Our big + player was Joseph. And JWil was a negative.
My heart is with these people!
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Whew! Man, too close for comfort.
I’d like to compare KU to the Golden State Warriors for a second, with a grain of salt of course.
They each have the same problem: no reliable bench players at the moment.
And that’s totally weird to say given we all think KU has amazing depth.
So, like others have said, somebody has to step up with some bench scoring! MJ, where you at?
I think just about everybody was tired today with the back to backs. Dajuan in particular.
Bobby: thanks a million for saving the day!
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@jayballer67 said in 10am Start, Thurs WISCONSIN:
I know this even though we won we better find some other people that can play and score other then our starting four. - -Yesufu needs to sit. - -he is terrible. Zach can understand a little lots of rust , WE need MJ to produce - -but you can’t produce if you can’t get on the floor - We need Bobby more , gonna take time for Udeh - -& Zuby and I do believe on down the road this year they will be better.
Yea, I’ve said this before, but Joe just isn’t working out or fitting in. Bummer. Maybe Self hasn’t broken him down enough yet to build him up into something. I sure hope he turns it around soon. We need some offense off the bench.
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@Eric-san said in 10am Start, Thurs WISCONSIN:
Please no alley oop attempts today
I think the alley oop is pretty much the only way our bigs are going to score. So, I see that sticking around until Udeh and Co. mature into post threats.
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@wissox said in 10am Start, Thurs WISCONSIN:
@BeddieKU23 It really delivered. I didn’t want the Badgers to be embarrassed. I wanted KU to win but would’ve been happy for a big win for UW. Badger fans by and large expected to get rocked so they’re quite content actually. Maybe relief because they scored 43 in the 2nd half (same as the previous game total!) rediscovering some offense.
Putting the KU hat back on FT shooting and some bad turnovers really fueled the comeback. I’m not sure why Zuby and Udeh didn’t play. Maybe Norm should be the head coach!
People on the other side were complaining about the two flop calls against UW but thought Jalen should have been whistled for it when Wahl drove on him late in the game. I told them Bill Self would have killed Jalen if he had tried to flop to draw a charge and instead just gave up an easy layup like that, especially in crunch time. I think Jalen got his feet tangled.
As for the two Wisconsin flops it’s a really dumb rule. Tell the refs not to reward flops by calling fouls when a kid flops. If a kid wants to look dumb and fall while shooting a three then let him look dumb.
Really looking forward to tomorrow night. Should be a fun game and KU should prevail over Rocky Top by a few.
Wisconsin fans should be happy KU fell apart and they took advantage of that. Some of it was just shot making which Wisconsin does have, just not consistent but a majority of their offense came off some really poor offense from KU. Kudos to them for fighting all the way to the end.
On the replay shown of that layup where Jalen fell, it looked like he slipped and Wahl used his leverage to get him to go down as he was slipping because one of Jalens legs folds as he falls, there was no flop there but seeing it live I could see where it would be questioned since that’s a popular spot to sell a foul. At first I thought it was a foul on Wahl because Jalen is not going down without someone drilling him. We saw Jalen stood up a driver several times in this game, he is no flopper. Bobby also made a really poor dig and help attempt there. Good thing he made up for it.
I get the frustration over the flop calls but they were both correct. Both were blatant attempts to sell a foul that didn’t occur, both had the opportunity to land on their feet and instead chose to fall. Great to see the emphasis on this but it’s going to take time for players to adjust to bad habits and I’m sure KU will be on the receiving end of a few. I expect the rule to be overcalled since it’s something we are clearly seeing as a point of emphasis.
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Watching replay, big thing noticed is how Self abandoned a lot of motion sets to get the ball moving side to side. He was forced to play starters too many minutes and they were gassed. He let Jalen be the guy that got the ball in position to score on almost every possession. This was all Self. It worked out but we sacrificed a lot in that 2nd half/OT because his bench wasn’t reliable. I think Wisconsin did a great job in their defensive scheme limiting easy ball movement and how they guarded Dick was another noticeable adjustment. They were also double and trippling Jalen at times. All wrinkles we have to be prepared to see from other teams.
It was noticeable how the crowd was impacting KU when they cut the lead to a 1 possession game. Some noticeable frustration from even Juan out there. He was clearly upset about how Wisconsin got back into this game. The refs made sure of that when calling him for multiple phantom fouls
Very concerned tonight about starters getting gassed tonight. This game is really going to need the bench to produce something. Tennessee has the 2nd ranked defense
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@BeddieKU23 We haven’t come close to playing a good game yet. I hope this isn’t going to be Lump City tonite.
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@BeddieKU23 said in 10am Start, Thurs WISCONSIN:
Watching replay, big thing noticed is how Self abandoned a lot of motion sets to get the ball moving side to side. He was forced to play starters too many minutes and they were gassed. He let Jalen be the guy that got the ball in position to score on almost every possession. This was all Self. It worked out but we sacrificed a lot in that 2nd half/OT because his bench wasn’t reliable. I think Wisconsin did a great job in their defensive scheme limiting easy ball movement and how they guarded Dick was another noticeable adjustment. They were also double and trippling Jalen at times. All wrinkles we have to be prepared to see from other teams.
It was noticeable how the crowd was impacting KU when they cut the lead to a 1 possession game. Some noticeable frustration from even Juan out there. He was clearly upset about how Wisconsin got back into this game. The refs made sure of that when calling him for multiple phantom fouls
Very concerned tonight about starters getting gassed tonight. This game is really going to need the bench to produce something. Tennessee has the 2nd ranked defense
I was really surpised that our freshmen bigs didn’t get a few minutes each aginst Wisc. We need our bigs against Tenessee since it plays a couple of seven footer guys. I just can’t see KJ being able to defend the Tenessee bigs.
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@BeddieKU23 Part of it with the guys being tired is back to back games but we are going to have to get something out of the bench eventually.
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That court was slick. They use the wrong cleansing/prep product on the floor. Hope no one gets hurt this evening.
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Haven’t we played against a couple of 7 ft’ers somewhere before? Can Tennessee adjust to our speed?
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Maybe Self was saving them for the Vols. Maybe…
I’m not sure how effective they can be. The officiating has been weird. Not saying it has been against KU because we got some positive calls, too… but they’ve been calling weird fouls while missing others.
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Will be interesting to see if Self still has Rick Barnes number?
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@COHawk said in 10am Start, Thurs WISCONSIN:
Haven’t we played against a couple of 7 ft’ers somewhere before? Can Tennessee adjust to our speed?
Yes, Duke had 5 guys 6’11" and taller. Even N. Dakota had taller centers than KU. So, we’ve done well against taller teams so far.
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I don’t know the reasoning behind not playing either freshman big if you expect them to be a factor today. Those kids need game reps not bench time if they are going to factor into this team. Obviously self sent a message to them.
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@drgnslayr said in 10am Start, Thurs WISCONSIN:
That court was slick. They use the wrong cleansing/prep product on the floor. Hope no one gets hurt this evening.
Over the years that court has been known to be humid. Not a traditional venue at all
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@BeddieKU23 said in 10am Start, Thurs WISCONSIN:
@wissox said in 10am Start, Thurs WISCONSIN:
@BeddieKU23 It really delivered. I didn’t want the Badgers to be embarrassed. I wanted KU to win but would’ve been happy for a big win for UW. Badger fans by and large expected to get rocked so they’re quite content actually. Maybe relief because they scored 43 in the 2nd half (same as the previous game total!) rediscovering some offense.
Putting the KU hat back on FT shooting and some bad turnovers really fueled the comeback. I’m not sure why Zuby and Udeh didn’t play. Maybe Norm should be the head coach!
People on the other side were complaining about the two flop calls against UW but thought Jalen should have been whistled for it when Wahl drove on him late in the game. I told them Bill Self would have killed Jalen if he had tried to flop to draw a charge and instead just gave up an easy layup like that, especially in crunch time. I think Jalen got his feet tangled.
I get the frustration over the flop calls but they were both correct. Both were blatant attempts to sell a foul that didn’t occur, both had the opportunity to land on their feet and instead chose to fall. Great to see the emphasis on this but it’s going to take time for players to adjust to bad habits and I’m sure KU will be on the receiving end of a few. I expect the rule to be overcalled since it’s something we are clearly seeing as a point of emphasis.
What do you think of the rule though? Now you’re asking referees to in the moment interpret a kids intent. That’s a lot to ask and it will hurt the kid who truly did fall through whatever reason other than trying to draw a foul.
Since the game was relatively high profile, those two boys may have earned a reputation as floppers and will not be given the benefit of the doubt in the future.
The flop rule was made because kids obviously have been trying to draw charges, or on the 3’s like yesterday. It’s almost like the NCAA decided to penalize kids for embarrassing referees who don’t know how to make a call. Of course it’s the NCAA so I put nothing past them to enact something stupid.
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I’m fine with the rule but as with any emphasis, consistent application of the rule I think will suffer at times as we have often seen. It shouldn’t have taken until 2022 to see this behavior being dealt with. So far I haven’t seen it called with any real controversy or impact to the game. I’m waiting for when we have end of game situations where that rule will really become grey area.
Overall I think this is certainly another good rule emphasis after they have gone after shooters kicking the leg out to draw contact and have also dealt with defenders falling down in the post without contact. These are habits and coaching changes that must have happen for the better of the game
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The flop I despise the most is the 3 pt shooter who fakes being fouled knowing the outside ref is watching the shooters feet and can be fooled to think contact took place higher up the body. I also remember seeing 3 ball shooters pull the defender on top of them as they fall backwards. Something has to be done to stop the poor sportsmanship of floppin, so like the NBA did many years ago, now it’s a technical foul.
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@stoptheflop Definitely have done so. Think too many worry about the other team without thinking about how they have to make adjustments to stop us. Also, we have rebounded pretty well so far.
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@BeddieKU23 It certainly was a difference maker. All things being equal, Wisconsin wins that game if they were playing under last years rules.
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@stoptheflop it’s why I can’t stand soccer.
USA vs Wales the Wales guys fall on the ground literally screaming in pain…yellow card comes out and all of the sudden the pop up and start running full speed.
If a guy hits you in the nose then fall over but the whole lebron flop crap is weak. You aren’t playing like a man trying to D up you are playing to persuade an official to give you a call.
I hate flopping in every sport
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@kuballin10 said in 10am Start, Thurs WISCONSIN:
I hate flopping in every sport
It really sucks in tennis. Everyone does it in swimming, though. Quite counterproductive in hurdles.
