So here's the thing with this California bill passed
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drgnslayr said:
Not sure I see Texas leaving the B12. Did you forget about the Longhorn Network? I’m pretty sure that must make it hard for UT to move on. Not sure what other league is prepared to bring in such a heavy school. The B12 was vulnerable for a school like UT.
Where would they go? SEC? I just don’t see it. I do a lot of work with UT and there are cultural differences between UT and the SEC.
Just watch this play out. Self is now on record for supporting the Cal law. Coaches have to recruit. Do you think many of them want to go against paying players?
The writing is on the wall, and the NCAA is going to cave. The real question is “how much?” How much will they cave? Regs will have to be in place. Lines will have to be drawn. I bet they are busy now trying to calculate lines and what they think they can govern and enforce.
I foresee much of this ending up in court. Not so much on the overall concept of the new Cal law. That is quickly catching fire like a prairie blaze. It’s all about the details and such a broad concept will have to be refined with regs. I can see half a dozen major areas of interest and there will be huge money in those interests. Now you are talking about corporate attorneys taking on the NCAA.
As much as we all want to BBQ the NCAA and call them out as being dictators… imagine the size and scope of what is about to happen.
Still not going to matter , there has been talk about this Conference being toast for years - it’s just not going to survive come contract time.
No I haven’t forgot - -I think they will slide into the Sec just fine - -actually I could care less about UT - - -but even without anything concerning Texas - -this is a Conference that just isn’t going to hold together - - as I’m sure you have heard/talked/read about - when it’s all said and done your going to see 4-5 MEGA SUPER Conferences and others will be in Scramble mode - -still fully believe when this come to light KU will end up in the Big 10. - -Bottom line is If I were a betting man I’d bet % somewhere around 80% that the Big 12 will be history
Cold be Coach Self endorsing this Bill saying he would be in support of it - so he can land in another Conference where this comes into play be able to maintain recruiting with other Big Boys - -as you know or should the top recruits are going to be swayed to go to a School where they can get some kind of money to play - -right now the West coast Schools are going to have a huge advantage - -Bill wants to keep the table/playing field level for KU.
We Better hope that the State of Kansas adopts the same law that was passed, on the other hand I just think with this law being passed just enhances the chance of the Big 12 being broken even more on top of the new Contract coming up
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@drgnslayr Texas did try to leave the B12 during the last round of realignment, but the Longhorn Network is what kept them from leaving. There was supposedly a deal in place for Texas, Texas Tech, Kansas, and Colorado to head to the P12, but that was contingent on UT giving up the LHN. KU was involved in that deal because of them playing nice with Texas and being the B12 game that has aired on LHN every year they’ve played in Austin since the network’s launch and that was UT helping KU out for playing nice.
Regardless of people’s opinions of Texas, the Longhorn Network is what’s holding the league together at this point.
I do agree with those however who believe the B12 is on its last legs. When Fox and ESPN each told the B12 they wouldn’t redo the contract to get the league back to 12 teams a couple of years ago, that was the writing on the wall that the league won’t survive. KU will end up in either the P12 because KU is a great cultural fit in the P12, but the LGBT bill will probably keep that from happening. Or KU ends up in B10 where it is a better geographic fit.
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Texas Hawk 10 said:
Regardless of people’s opinions of Texas, the Longhorn Network is what’s holding the league together at this point.
I agree. There is no place for Texas to go with their shiny network.
Unfortunately, what I think is likely to happen with the new player endorsement money coming in… I see it benefiting schools in the larger TV markets the most.
We all know how marketing works, and money chases the crowds.
I mentioned before about issues with what is to come; will the NCAA inject a level of socialism in the regs to follow? Will they want a slice of the pie along with giving the conferences a slice, too?
It does fit their model of taking most of the pie away from the players. It’s a perfect way of diluting the impact and it sure would make a lot of people happy that aren’t players!
I’m smelling a college players’ union coming our way!
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@drgnslayr With as much money as Adidas is spending on KU, they will not let KU get left out of the next round of realignment. You don’t spend almost $200 million on a deal with a school to leave them out of a major conference.
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Isn’t the Big 12 still a major conference? Except for last year, KU owns the Big 12 in basketball. Seems like it could be a better investment to own the team that owns a major conference instead of a team that is one of many in another major conference.
I don’t know. I felt a bit enlightened after your post and will think about that for a while.
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Never align with California, per se. They are insane and out of their minds. That is not to say that we can’t be part of a realignment that makes the corrupt NCAA history.
Disassociate schools from athletics institutionally and let’s go. We know at this point the whole “amateur “ thing is just a pose.
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drgnslayr said:
Isn’t the Big 12 still a major conference? Except for last year, KU owns the Big 12 in basketball. Seems like it could be a better investment to own the team that owns a major conference instead of a team that is one of many in another major conference.
I don’t know. I felt a bit enlightened after your post and will think about that for a while.
Yes, the B12 is still a major conference, but so was the Big East before the ACC raided and destroyed that league.
With the way TV is going the way it is and the talk of possible CFP expansion, having just 4 major conferences makes that much simpler because the conference title games would become the quarter final games.
Both of the B12’s TV partners flat out telling the B12 they couldn’t expand a couple of years ago was very telling about where Fox and ESPN view the B12 and it wasn’t positive for the B12’s future for the next round of conference realignment which will start heating up in the next couple of years when the B12’s deals are up.
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Let’s get one part of the facts straight about the California bill - it does not pay players.
It allows student athletes to profit off their name/likeness. It basically allows players to maintain eligibility if they earn money outside of their scholarship. It basically forces colleges and universities to treat student athletes like other scholarship students. Nobody is preventing the kid on an English scholarship from making money as a tutor, or writing and selling poems/essays/short stories. Nobody keeps the Foreign Language major from earning money on the side as an interpreter.
No reason to not treat student athletes the same.
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justanotherfan said:
It basically forces colleges and universities to treat student athletes like other scholarship students. Nobody is preventing the kid on an English scholarship from making money as a tutor, or writing and selling poems/essays/short stories. Nobody keeps the Foreign Language major from earning money on the side as an interpreter.
I wish I could upvote this a thousand times. It’s a point I’ve made frequently before.
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The point has not logic. None. It “feels” good, but in reality, it makes no sense. For all the silly examples (selling a poem?), perhaps some thought about this:
What the California law permits is the destruction of college sports.
Tell me where the California law prevents Adidas, Nike, UA, NB, etc., from engaging in an all out bidding war for certain CBB and CFB players’ “likeness”, etc., all in return for attending a particular school? That is, the shoe companies acting on behalf of the programs. The king makers. Or, David Booth? Or whatever bidder decides to be king maker?
Think … this … through.
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Bid wars already happen behind the scenes. Almost nothing would change in that regard.
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In other words… to pay off players to sign with a school. Like what goes on now, behind closed doors.
Since we are an Adidas school, and at the top of their basketball list… won’t we benefit more than most? Look at the size of our school contract with Adidas. They have invested big time in Kansas. They will want to continue to help sign players to Kansas and will pay a premium price.
I don’t go with something just because Kansas benefits more.
I have no idea how this is going to work but we have several years to have this litigate and rules to be drawn. The NCAA will have to find a way to satisfy everyone. Or… let me rewrite that… the courts will have to find a way to satisfy everyone. REALITY: no one will be satisfied because that is the culture we live in today!
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justanotherfan said:
Let’s get one part of the facts straight about the California bill - it does not pay players.
It allows student athletes to profit off their name/likeness. It basically allows players to maintain eligibility if they earn money outside of their scholarship. It basically forces colleges and universities to treat student athletes like other scholarship students. Nobody is preventing the kid on an English scholarship from making money as a tutor, or writing and selling poems/essays/short stories. Nobody keeps the Foreign Language major from earning money on the side as an interpreter.
No reason to not treat student athletes the same.
THANK YOU
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One of my boys, Sen. Romney, is going to give this thing some juice. He told the NCAA earlier, “we’re coming for you.” Sometimes bipartisanship really does exist. https://twitter.com/nflpa/status/1184617925333917698?s=21
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LFG!!! https://www.espn.com/college-sports/story/_/id/27957981/ncaa-votes-allow-athletes-profit-likeness
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This will take forever but it’s a start.
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@BShark oh definitely. It’s a sign that the NCAA is really feeling the heat and is responding to public pressure. Honestly if we can just get the NCAA football and basketball video games back I’ll be thrilled. It’s still a tremendous day when the updated football and basketball rosters come out for NCAA 14 and NCAA 2k8.
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NCAA had no choice. They were either going to make changes or be the subject of a “Whatever happened to…” docuseries in ten years.
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Sounds good, let’s see how much they can mess this one up
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But, but…socialism and stuff!
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mayjay said:
But, but…socialism and stuff!
It’s so ridiculous that these peasants don’t want to have to spend all they have for medical care. RIDICULOUS I SAY!!!
Signed, big pharma billionaires
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So will that absolve KU?
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@chriz doubt it
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BShark said:
mayjay said:
But, but…socialism and stuff!
It’s so ridiculous that these peasants don’t want to have to spend all they have for medical care. RIDICULOUS I SAY!!!
Signed, big pharma billionaires
If you were to draw a venn diagram of the people who believe that a Purple Heart recipient was a Ukranian Double Agent and the people who think this will ruin CBB, you’d just have a circle.
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The NCAA could do the right thing, but the thing is, people that got rich off of a certain model aren’t likely to change that model if it may result in them no longer getting rich. See also, Human History We will see how the NCAA handles this.
But no need to worry. California’s law is on the books. We will likely see other state laws next year while the NCAA foot drags their way to new rules. We may still see something passed through the US House.
The NCAA could make sure they are in existence for the next 100 years, but they may also squeeze the golden goose so tightly they strangle it. Keep watching.
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Just remember the rule of unintended consequences and see me five years after this takes effect.
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HighEliteMajor said:
Just remember the rule of unintended consequences and see me five years after this takes effect.
Will do. Remember welfare economics and see me five years after this takes effect.
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How soon before all of these teams create a player marketing department? Then it’s all a part of the recruiting process. The rich get richer. Top teams will have commercials, appearances with fees all lined up for any signee. “Kansas’ tradition” that Coach Self currently sells will now be about 5% of the recruiting approach. Also, the shoe companies will sign these kids BEFORE they sign with a college. Will they be allowed to wear their shoe of choice at college? If not at least we know which kids we can’t recruit because of the shoe affiliation.
If I’m a coach of a top team I’d want a raise. This will be like running a large company even more than it currently is.
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FarmerJayhawk said:
HighEliteMajor said:
Just remember the rule of unintended consequences and see me five years after this takes effect.
Will do. Remember welfare economics and see me five years after this takes effect.
I wish I knew where you were going with that. Free market? Gov’t intervention? Redistribution?
I’ll just say that how many times does government intervene, thinking it’s helping, but in the end, it damages the situation? This isn’t food safety.
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HighEliteMajor said:
FarmerJayhawk said:
HighEliteMajor said:
Just remember the rule of unintended consequences and see me five years after this takes effect.
Will do. Remember welfare economics and see me five years after this takes effect.
I wish I knew where you were going with that. Free market? Gov’t intervention? Redistribution?
I’ll just say that how many times does government intervene, thinking it’s helping, but in the end, it damages the situation? This isn’t food safety.
Oh, I thought we were just throwing out vague statements with variations of I told you so at the end.
This will be the NCAA making its own policy about NIL. I thought you were ok with private organizations doing whatever they wanted? A more apt comparison is anti-competitive behavior from the NBA and NCAA.
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@HighEliteMajor Like for example, slashing corporate and taxes at the top of the pay scale hoping for more business investment, but then investment actually dropping? It’s as if people with money operate with the mentality that they should do everything they can to hold onto that money regardless of its affects on the market, the economy, society, etc. And to address the inevitable “you just want my money” defense, I don’t.
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@benshawks08 the biggest piece of that was tariffs on manufacturing inputs but your point makes sense. Generally fiddling around the edges doesn’t change people’s behavior in meaningful ways.
The NCAA wants to fiddle around the edges with this. I can see them wanting to keep a ban on boosters paying players and all that. If they could limit this to blanket licensing agreements like the O’Bannon settlement in the EA Sports case, they’d be over the moon. Could also see athletes getting increased stipends from a cut of merch sales, but without names on jerseys and that kind of thing. Personally I think that’s a step in the right direction but won’t really change the landscape of college sports since boosters and shoe co’s will still be dealing under the table long before any of these kids step on a campus. To get that out, you have to bring those deals out of the shadows and just let them sign endorsement deals at any age and end the charade of amateurism. The Olympics did that years ago and they’re doing better than they ever have. Shoot, we’re about the only country that doesn’t just flat make them government employees where their only (handsomely paid) job is to go win medals. The last Heisman trophy winner was a professional athlete and already got paid millions for forks sake. This really isn’t that crazy an idea.
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“For the love of money is the root of all evil.” The corruption in our game will continue, it may look a little different but there will still be corruption.
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@wissox Just like the Olympics.
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@FarmerJayhawk Ok, thanks. Yes, I am. I thought the social welfare economics reference was likely geared toward the government pressure.
But I agree, the NCAA making the decision on their own, is fine with me. However, it’s a horribly bad decision.
@benshawks08 Kind of boring. Those horrible rich people. You know, those folks that actually pay salaries and keep our economy going? You speak ignorance. Actually, not really ignorance. But a purposeful disregard for the truth. It’s what you folks do. You do understand — maybe you don’t – that investing also includes putting money in a bank, right? That folks taking their money and simply depositing in a bank IS investment? That it capitalizes a lending institution? And don’t really suggest you know, because you don’t. I know. I see it. I deal with it. But I’m sure you teach your dishonesty to our children/your students. Pathetic really.
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Why is it when this country was better off the tax rate on the ultra wealthy was much higher? Really makes you think…
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@BShark What should really make one think is what the revenue was used for. It’s much different than goals of the left now. The discussions of public expenditures has changed more on the left in the last 10 years than the prior century. That’s the issue.
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BShark said:
Why is it when this country was better off the tax rate on the ultra wealthy was much higher? Really makes you think…
Ehhh. There were 3 recessions in the 50’s when the top rate was like 91%. Stagflation of the 70’s happened when the top rated was about 70%. TRA of 86 made things better and cut the top rate in half, then in 1/3. That coupled with the big capital gains tax helped along the .com boom. Things obviously cratered in 08, but tax rates didn’t have anything to do with it.
Tl; dr version. The top marginal rate and economic growth, wages, or pick your metric aren’t correlated in any meaningful way. Cutting corporate and capital gains taxes does actually help growth.
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BigBad said:
Will they be allowed to wear their shoe of choice at college?
This is the $74,000 question. Or should I say, $22 billion question?
I’ve been projecting all along the NCAA would smarten up on not completely challenging the Cal ruling.
So the move is on… the great American gold rush in college basketball is finally extending to the players.
The success is in the details, and the NCAA will still attempt to play a major role in how this goes, but I’m doubtful on how well they will be able to manage. Groups like the NCPA and others popping up daily, will want to have a say in this and many will have stake in this. All I can say is expect a plethora of court proceedings, and then more court proceedings. There are so many details involved that it will require probably 1000s of court cases.
I don’t envy being in the NCAA’s shoes. And as much as I think they really suck, their future will be a big mess and I don’t really see how they will survive. There is no sane way forward!
I’m going out on a limb here… I think, eventually, the NCAA will fold and Congress will step in to form a government agency directly managing college sports and probably a lot more of universities. And in some regards, I welcome that. But I also know how big government has problems running things, too.
Guys like myself always wanted to see the athletes benefit more financially while playing college sports. But it is hard to see how this is going to work with any kind of positive outcome. College sports “dribbles” into all areas of our culture and our laws. The exposure is too heavy to allow a private organization run it as it enters a future of constant litigation and problems managing rules. The lawsuits will not only grow in number but will also grow in size.
I think the NCAA really blew it years ago when they could have better made the system fairer and probably by doing so would have established a more stable control and future.
Read some stuff others post, especially organizations that want to have it their way. College sports is the round peg that doesn’t really fit in the square hole of regular business or even American concepts of fairness. All of this will be addressed constantly as we move forward.
I will be surprised if we don’t have some kind of Supreme Court ruling in some of this within the next couple of years. And it will be too focused to cover everything, so more cases to follow.
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Just about every political and economic system is a good idea in theory. The issues with any system is when you don’t have complete buy-in from those subject to that particular system.
Socialism and communism are systems that do work when groups have total buy-in. A lot of Native American tribes were communistic in nature. Everyone in a tribe had a role and responsibilities that were needed to be fulfilled in order for the tribe to survive. Amish and Mennonite societies also have a lot of socialist and communist traits as well.
Those systems succeed in those cultures because there was buy-in. When not everyone in a culture buys into a specific system and that system stays in place for a long period of time, major problems develop. This is true for areas controlled by both the left and the right.
This is beauty of the American system. It’s a hybrid of different systems. The swinging back and forth between the left and the right on a national level is what keeps America from swinging too far to the left or the right.
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Humans ruin everything. We are the worst.
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With regard to the NCAA rule change, nothing is set in stone about what this will look like yet. I’ll reserve final judgement for when we actually see what limits and regulations the NCAA places on this law.
Video games seems like a given for what will be permissable because there’s just too much money involved there. I know the O’Bannon lawsuit ended up giving athletes about $600 per game they appears in and I would expect that figure to be roughly the same, maybe a little bit more since it will be almost a decade since the NCAA '14 came out in 2013 when the next licensed college football game comes out, probably 2021 or 2022. Other things that should likely be permissable would be music, writings, and stuff along those lines.
I don’t think we’ll end up seeing players appear in national ad campaigns or allowed to sign shoe endorsement deals while in school.
The area I’ll be really interested in seeing how the NCAA rules on will be social media and players creating YouTube and other streaming channels like Twitch or other gaming platforms.
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Video games yayyy. But I would definitely agree they will be back. Way too much money in them.
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I see this as a California grass fire. A quarter of the State is on fire. Envision that as $100 bills. How can the NCAA stop any upcoming profiteering? Once the gate opens, it can’t be shut. If a single dollar is allowed to be made on anything, then all other deals out there will demand authorization, too. And why doesn’t deal #2 have ever right deal #1 has? It’s something for a courtroom… over and over again. I don’t see how the NCAA can do anything but step aside and let it happen, while trying to pinch a % of the revenue stream.
This is a great time to consider a new career. AGENT! Thousands and thousands of HS and college players are in sudden need of an agent. Even some junior high athletes might have an opportunity to cash in. And NCAA controlling the area of agency? Ha!
I’m thinking within 5 years KU will sign a player who is already worth $100 mil.
Perhaps our best future recruiters will come from the endowment program. Best salesmen KU has to offer! Sign an elite athlete while having that athlete sign a contribution contract because we are renaming Naismith Drive in his name!
I know I sound crazy. But I was the guy who sounded crazy when I stated that Zion would quickly become a billionaire, and I said that before he blew out his shoe in college.
Absurdity rules moving forward! Going to get weird. Maintain your sanity by keeping a great sense of humor!
“What would I do if I were in charge? We would have settled this by now and we wouldn’t be here by now,” Bilas said. “It’s that simple. I’d allow players their economic rights as literally everyone else in this country has. Everything will be fine. This entire industry does not (depend) on an athlete being compensated. Every argument they’ve made is total nonsense.” ~ Jay Bilas… the attorney… barking for untethered cash disbursements. ha… don’t forget he’s an attorney first, probably lining up to become an agent.
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Lots of state pride here: Sen. Moran’s hearing, Girod supporting NIL for student athletes, and Emmert trying to act all high and mighty with his $2 million salary and pretending like he cares about anything but maintaining the status quo https://www2.ljworld.com/news/ku/2020/feb/11/ku-would-support-student-athlete-compensation-chancellor-says-at-congressional-hearing/
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https://twitter.com/jessenewell/status/1227286453597720576?s=20
Senator Marsha Blackburn (Tennessee) is in the middle of chiding NCAA president Mark Emmert during today’s Senate Subcommittee meeting when she sees KU chancellor Douglas Girod nodding. She then asks if he’d like to make a comment. Girod then addresses KU’s notice of allegations.
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This post is deleted!
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https://twitter.com/jessenewell/status/1227301624575676418
Senator Shelley Capito (http://R-W.Va.) takes time during a Senate subcommittee meeting on potential student-athlete Name, Image, Likeness legislation to directly ask Big 12 commish Bob Bowlsby why Wednesday’s KU-WVU basketball game is only on ESPN+ and not cable.
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@bskeet said in So here's the thing with this California bill passed:
https://twitter.com/jessenewell/status/1227286453597720576?s=20
Senator Marsha Blackburn (Tennessee) is in the middle of chiding NCAA president Mark Emmert during today’s Senate Subcommittee meeting when she sees KU chancellor Douglas Girod nodding. She then asks if he’d like to make a comment. Girod then addresses KU’s notice of allegations.
Sen. Blackburn ought to consider the state she represents before tossing rocks at Kansas.
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@FarmerJayhawk lol People from Arkansas make fun of West Virginians as being backwards…
