Adidas more aggressive in college basketball?
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@Bwag Here’s Tait’s take on the Adidas implosion. UL is sweatin bullets right now. Could be the SMU of college hoops… http://www2.kusports.com/news/2017/sep/26/kansas-athletics-monitoring-charges-against-adidas/#comments
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And here I’ve been regularly lamenting not adding Louisville to the Big12.
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@HighEliteMajor great point. Me too.
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Yeah WVU is looking pretty good right about now.
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How many of Stubby’s players are going to be suspended over this? AZ cancelled their Media Day scheduled for tomorrow. They are preseason number 1 or 2 in practically every poll.
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KUSTEVE said:
How many of Stubby’s players are going to be suspended over this? AZ cancelled their Media Day scheduled for tomorrow. They are preseason number 1 or 2 in practically every poll.
Arizona will burn. Louisville will burn.
I’m not reveling in it much, since there is probably much more to come.
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Though this certainly makes losing various recruits to Arizona under mysterious circumstances a lot less painful…
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Some didn’t even pan out but I’m talking about Ayton, Josiah Turner, Tarc etc…
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The Tucson newspaper is laying the wood to Stubby:
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KUSTEVE said:
The Tucson newspaper is laying the wood to Stubby:
Yeah, Arizona will be hammered. I just hope KU won’t be. Thankfully Wiggins was before the probe.
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Josh Jackson worries me BUT he signed with UA, not Adidas. That relieves me somewhat.
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@KUSTEVE Pearl is right on the spit in Alabama as we speak. He wasn’t exactly welcomed with open arms when he arrived there either with his baggage from Iowa.
https://bustingbrackets.com/2017/09/26/auburn-basketball-will-bruce-pearl-survive-fbi-investigation/
I too would’ve been thrilled to get UL FB & hoops in the BG12 …so much for that. We should be cautious of all the shoes that may fall as these rats begin to beg for their bargains. And beg & rat these crooks will. Surely this is just the beginning of the landslide. Don’t be surprised if Monty Hall appears & it rains pitchforks & Chuck Taylor’s all over the land.
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Everybody needs to remember that Gatto was hired by Adidas from Nike. Based on the magnitude of this scandal, I don’t think it’s much of a stretch to assume he was doing similar things while at Nike as well.
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Spot on! Except Nike owns too many judges, senators, etc. IMHO, they are one of the largest crime syndicates in the world.
What I’m curious about… is some of the fall out. Like, how about Louisville? They have been implicated. It is already being discussed if they get the death penalty now.
I think the days of the NCAA dealing death penalties is over. But it will be interesting for all of us to watch what happens to Louisville.
I’m also curious if the feds push this back into Nike. Do they have the balls to take on Nike? I doubt it. But so many people know this goes back to Nike and Nike is filthy dirty. Now we are talking about Kentucky (and others).
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If there is justice in the world, this should be primarily about Nike. I guess we will have to wait for the next shoe to drop. (pun intended)
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The Star & Jesse pointed out that 3 of these schools Asst Coaches that were “named” are Nike schools and 1 an UA school…interesting that it is the Addidas exec named.
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Caught an interview with Sonny Vaccaro this morning, and he emphasized how deep this scandal was; expecting far more schools and individuals getting dragged into this soon.
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@Bwag The Adidas exec came from Nike recently.
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@drgnslayr here’s the article that I guess came from that interview:
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In a somewhat related note, Texas is revamping the Irwing Center. At one time, the plans was to tear it down to expand the Medical Center and build a newer, nicer, state of the art arena elsewhere. I guess Smart’s lack of success to date put an end to that.
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““This [investigation] is huge.””
Vaccaro is right on that. Just the fact that the feds are involved versus the typical “inside job” performed by the amateurish NCAA makes this a huge deal.
The feds can do a lot more than punish within basketball, they can put people in jail.
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@JayHawkFanToo Smart had nothing to do with that. UT had been looking for a site for a new arena long before Smart was hired. The search started around 2012 and UT looked at many sites around campus and in the suburbs, partnerships with the city like they have with Erwin, but nothing could ever be finalized.
As far as aesthetics go, Erwin is one of the ugliest arenas in the country. IT is a concrete mausoleum and personality-less on the inside too.
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@approxinfinity LOL at the Mafia speak… '“I know Jimmy Gatto. I hired him,” Vaccaro said from his home in Southern California. “An altar boy. I have known him since birth.”
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@Texas-Hawk-10 2 1/2 decades ago …
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@DanR But Paully, is he “made” ?
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If Smart would have had more success to date with more in the near future, a location would have been found. No doubt that the lackluster performance to date hurt the chances of a new arena and the emphasis kicked back to football…at least this is what my Texan friends tell me.
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bskeet said:
If there is justice in the world, this should be primarily about Nike. I guess we will have to wait for the next shoe to drop. (pun intended)
Justice and the world appear not currently on speaking terms.
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drgnslayr said:
Caught an interview with Sonny Vaccaro this morning, and he emphasized how deep this scandal was; expecting far more schools and individuals getting dragged into this soon.
This is like interviewing Satan after he lost control of hell to a group of devils.
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@JayHawkFanToo UT had a site chosen and the owner wouldn’t sell the property to buiild the new arena.
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I have to say I feel a little dirty. As KU being in bed with Adidas after all this fallout. I just hope the rabbit hole isn’t to deep?
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This would not be a big deal. The city can use eminent domain to force the sale since it would be for public use and would benefit the community. Apparently the school did not feel the program would generate enough income to justify the expenditure.
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So, as I read info on the charges … this is all because the schools accept federal money? So the charges equate an assistant coach at Auburn getting extra money to steer a kid to a particular shoe company, to the city councilman in Ward 12 in Chicago who turns favors for his construction buddies into cash?
This really seems like a stretch to me. Doesn’t make it pretty. I just question reach of the law on this sort of issue. Perhaps I’m missing it, but how did they misappropriate public monies or finances?
Personally, I don’t care. This seems like an issue for the NCAA to penalize if it so chooses.
Legally, this seems a bit shaky, right? A “bribe”? So, I can’t pay for a service? These are not public officials.
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@HighEliteMajor It 100% is corruption and fraud.
Taking bribes from people unqualified to do a job so that they convince players who trust them to invest millions of dollars with them is corruption. And is a super shitty thing to do.
To cover the corruption, they have to funnel the money secretly. Which is called fraud.
They didn’t even get to the part about income tax evasion. That will fall on the shoulders of parents who surely didn’t pay the 25% tax on that $100k. Or the AAU coaches. Or the Assistant Coaches.
It is also disrupting of a major system that more likely than not has tens to hundreds of millions in federal funds running through it. Or at the very least is tax exempt from the billions it generates in revenue on a yearly basis. To allow that system to be corrupt is just as bad as a politician being corrupt. And, all this probably happened with just a few agents gathering evidence. The FBI didn’t go after CBB either. This case fell in their lap. They looked into a fraudulent financial advisor, turned him and the rest worked itself out. Tax dollars well spent in my opinion. Why let a crime go and search for a new one you might not find when you can stop crime that you see right now?
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@JayHawkFanToo No they couldn’t because it was going to be a joint ownership between the city and university like Erwin Center. The site they wanted was the old headquarters for the Austin American Statesman. I don’t think using eminant domain on the city newspaper would be the smartest idea in the world for a local government.
The biggest reason a deal was never made with any land site was the apathy towards the basketball program which has been in place long before Shaka Smart went there. Even when Rick Barnes had UT at their peak in the mid 2000’s, they only ever sold out when it was KU, UNC, or Kentucky coming to town and those fans bought up the tickets.
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If UT was smart they would build a smaller, state of the art, intimate venue with amazing acoustics. Put the small crowd right on top of the action and make it a loud/tough place to play. It doesn’t need to be some giant arena. An arena that holds about 10k so you know it is always sold out. You can make up for the lost revenue from the 2k in attendance by upping donation minimums for certain football tickets or something like that. Make it a fun environment to come like Sporting KC has done. Once that is accomplished, basketball ticket prices will rise and arguably make the program even more profitable.
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@Kcmatt7 I don’t want to get into too much contradiction here. I do see your point.
But let’s say you’re a high school coach. if adidas came to you and said “We’ll pay you to go out and steer players to use adidas shoes, but do it secretly. We don’t want them to know you work for us. And we’ll give you money to give them as incentive because we think, in the end, that’s good for adidas” – how is that corrupt or illegal?
Simply because it violates an organization’s “rules” (as opposed to laws), that doesn’t make it corrupt or illlegal.
Just really spitballin’ here.
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I am very familiar with eminent domain and it use is not limited for use by government organizations; developers often have cities use eminent domain (or condemnation) to purchase land they want to develop and cities do it because it brings more income.
The entire Legends development in Kansas City, Kansas that includes the race track, soccer and baseball stadiums and a number of stores and restaurants was done this way. One of my technicians had a home there and he had no choice although he received above appraised value money, was allowed to live there for free for 6 months until constructions was ready to start and he was able to take anything he wanted from the house. He was told that the more he took from the house, the less they have to haul away. He could have lifted the house on a trailer and move it elsewhere; I believe some people actually did this.
The problem at UT is that there was not enough interest in the basketball program and some thought that if Smart would make it dominant, getting the entire replacement money would be more palatable to football crazy Texans. Unfortunately Smart has not delivered and interest is now gone and hence the upgrade instead of replacement…it’s Smart’s fault… This is my story and I am sticking to it…
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@JayHawkFanToo I never said eminant domain was only used by governments. I said it was never going to happen with UT’s preferred arena site because it was former headquarters of the newspaper in Austin who still owned the site.
Trying to use eminant domain on the city newspaper would be about the dumbest thing someone could do.
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@HighEliteMajor An interesting point. Similar to the cases where politicians or public officials are alleged to have accepted money and are charged not with accepting bribes but with “breach of trust”. The underlying theory is that the officials deprive their constituents, or agencies, or whatever, of their genuine independence of judgment, etc. A lot of judges have rejected the theory as too tenuous–they say acceptance of bribes have to be connected to a specific act or acts.
One explanation of these charges that I saw says that it is based on a theory of fraudulently depriving the athletes of advice that is based on independent judgment exercised by someone in a position of special trust.
I think the theory if based on that falls apart if the money is shared by the athlete since disclosure of any financial recompense usually cures isues of biased judgment.
I will have to read the charging papers more closely to see how this issue isn’t a problem.
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HighEliteMajor said:
@Kcmatt7 I don’t want to get into too much contradiction here. I do see your point.
But let’s say you’re a high school coach. if adidas came to you and said “We’ll pay you to go out and steer players to use adidas shoes, but do it secretly. We don’t want them to know you work for us. And we’ll give you money to give them as incentive because we think, in the end, that’s good for adidas” – how is that corrupt or illegal?
Simply because it violates an organization’s “rules” (as opposed to laws), that doesn’t make it corrupt or illlegal.
Just really spitballin’ here.
It’s illegal because the goverrats didn’t get their cheddar from the transactions.
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Yeah, there are definitely some technicalities while trying to find the illegality in all of this. If someone wants you to pay you to do something, normally that is called employment. The difference is when it is a public official, then it turns into bribery. Zion could certainly accept money from Adidas right now if he wanted to and there is nothing illegal about it. It would mean he would lose his amateur status and not be allowed to partake in NCAA athletics though. If he were to hide this from the NCAA and still end up playing but then gets caught, it would not be illegal meaning he could go to jail or be fined, but it would be against NCAA rules and the institution would be the one penalized by the NCAA.
Notice that the athlete that received the $100k in the FBI investigation findings was not one of the people that was arrested. The adidas rep that paid the athlete was arrested because he also paid the college coaches and government money likely has gone to these colleges in one way or another.
Of course it would also be illegal to accept the money and not pay Uncle Sam his cut.
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On further reading, yes, they are charging “honest services” fraud under federal law. Seems to me they will need to prove a fiduciary relationship between the athletes and ass’t coaches, unless the federal aid to schools involves some type of prohibition on employees receiving income undisclosed to the school or something. Look it up on Google for an extensive discussion.
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@HighEliteMajor they are committing fraud by every definition in order to hide it from the organizations so they can break the rules though. Even if the corruption charges don’t stick, they all committed fraud and/or tax evasion.
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Kcmatt7 said:
If UT was smart they would build a smaller, state of the art, intimate venue with amazing acoustics. Put the small crowd right on top of the action and make it a loud/tough place to play. It doesn’t need to be some giant arena. An arena that holds about 10k so you know it is always sold out. You can make up for the lost revenue from the 2k in attendance by upping donation minimums for certain football tickets or something like that. Make it a fun environment to come like Sporting KC has done. Once that is accomplished, basketball ticket prices will rise and arguably make the program even more profitable.
Heck… they should just add hardwoods to their largest bar on 6th street. Fans can get drunk and fight… they’ll love it! And when the Longhorns are getting smoked by teams like Kansas, they can ring the big bell over the bar… “2 for 1s!” That will pick up the crowd!
IMHO, Texas is going through an identity crisis. They’ve spent more money in their sports program than most other D1 schools by double or triple or even far more. Their bling runneth amuck… but there is just no identity to their program… at all! Their closest thing to an identity is “Longhorns” and that is only valid in the State of Texas. It seems to hurt that there are so many other well-known schools in Texas, all with their brand of success.
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We live in “the era of dumb,” but I see your point. You are probably correct, but…
Might there be an outside possibility that a former news paper headquarters might be a property some Austin good old boy with a few friends downtown wants some subsidy for retrofitting and enviro clean-up, and so a taking by eminent domain might put the gubmint on line of title for bearing a share of clean up costs, cash the former owners out, and all would understand that the newspaper would under report any complaints downstream?
Just a thought.
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I respectfully disagree. It would be even dumber for a newspaper to oppose a project that would double the size of the Medical School and would build a much better arena that would not only improve the basketball program image but would attract more road shows and generate a large chunks of revenue, not only for the city but also for the surrounding businesses? Look at what the Sprint Center did for downtown KC compared to the old Kemper Arena and look at all the new businesses around the enlarged KU Medical Center.
As I understand, the owners of the property in question where expecting a huge and completely unrealistic payoff of more than twice the appraised value; they were counting on Texas basketball having a resurgence that has not happened. Apparently one of the promises made to Smart was that a new arena was in the works…who knows what really happened.
I am glad KU does not have to worry about a basketball arena.
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@mayjay “Here comes the Judge…here comes the Judge”… it’s good to have an actual judge on here that can translate for us.
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@KUSTEVE Aw, shucks, thank. But I just have lots of time to read. No guarantees on the total accuracy of my off-the-cuff wacko legal theories!
