Team handball might be one of my new favorite Olympic sports. I watched a few minutes back in 2016, then got to watch a match the other day and it was incredible. If the US put some emphasis on it, I think there would be lots of interest because it looks fun.
@Texas-Hawk-10 said in OU, Texas to the SEC?:
If Bob Bowlsby was a good commissioner, the Big 12 would be calling up Arizona, Arizona St., Utah, and Colorado along with Houston, SMU, Cincinnati, and UCF to expand as much as possible regardless of what KU, ISU, and WVU do.
With the Arizona schools in the Pacific Time zone for most of the basketball season, that would make it tough for them to move to an earlier time slot even if they were to switch conferences. They really can’t start games at 5PM local time.
Utah and Colorado could work, but only if WVU leaves for the ACC. I just don’t know how a college conference stretches across three time zones and makes that work.
I think there is an opportunity to expand east, but it is dependent on landing schools like Houston, Memphis, Cincinnati, perhaps Marshall and others.
The Big 12 could survive, but probably not at the P5 level.
Let’s weigh all of the options for KU:
Poaching other schools to make the Big 12 viable - Poaching schools like Colorado (wrong time zone), Iowa (doubtful they are interested, and even if they are, small population state for TV purposes), Nebraska (see Iowa issues), or Arkansas (same as Iowa and Nebraska, with the addition that they will want to be in a stronger baseball conference than the reimagined Big 12 can provide) has its issues. Looking through the grab bag of UCF, USF, Tulane, Cincinnati, Houston, Memphis has some nice options, but again, no school that adds a significant fan base for TV purposes. The only way poaching works is if the Big 12 could somehow get Minnesota, Iowa, Missouri, and Nebraska to add to West Virginia, Iowa State, KU, KSU, Oklahoma State, Baylor, Texas Tech and TCU. I doubt the B1G allows itself to be raided like that, but that’s the only truly viable option. I give this a 4/10 for viability. Not impossible, but unlikely, and you are still at risk from a TV perspective.
Pursuing the SEC. This is a non-starter. KU is too weak in football to ever be competitive. It would strengthen basketball, but still falls short. Travel isn’t a huge issue, but KU costs would go up to travel to schools like Mississippi State, South Carolina and Tennessee regularly. 1/10 because the SEC is not interested.
Pursuing the ACC. The ACC has a fairly large footprint at this point, up and down the East Coast. That probably makes expansion west difficult - the northernmost schools won’t want to add trips to the midwest to their travel schedule that already includes games in South Carolina, Georgia or Florida. Divisions would be a mess - KU would have two trips to North Carolina per year, a trip to Florida, etc. Is this workable? Maybe. Practical? Not really. 2/10
Pursuing the Big 10. This is the best option. Adding KU and possibly UVa to the Big 10 gives them clear divisions for the first time in forever - KU, Nebraska, Iowa, Minnesota, Illinois, Northwestern, Indiana and Purdue on one side, with Rutgers, Maryland, Virginia, Penn State, Ohio State, Michigan, Michigan State, Wisconsin. Some might say that the West is light on the football side (true right now), but that probably shifts over time, with those West schools able to eventually build up. And truthfully, other than Ohio State, the East isn’t actually that strong. This conference could stay together long term and the travel is manageable for everyone with those divisions. Traditional Big 10 rivalries are intact. The only issue is whether the Kansas legislature lets KU leave KSU behind. If KU is tied to KSU, both schools sink. If not, one can stay in a power conference. 7/10, mostly because the legislature could throw a wrench into things.
Drop down from a major conference to a new midwest based basketball conference. This idea is basically a concession that KU football may never be anything more than a nightmare. Leave the P5 scene and focus on being a shaky football school in a conference with some configuration of KU, K-State, Oklahoma State, Iowa State, Baylor, TCU, Texas Tech, Houston, Memphis, Cincinnati, SMU, Tulane, Rice, and UAB. Footballwise, that’s a not quite P5 level conference, but with some good teams and coaches. But basketballwise, that conference is competitive, with a chance to regularly send 6-8 schools dancing. Because of football, revenues take a hit, but if you pick the right group of schools and travel is reasonable, it can work. I give this a 4/10 because its basically an admission of defeat, but it is the best fallback option.
Agree with @Kcmatt7 on this. The team is at least another year away after this season. They need Witt, Pratto, Mondesi, Dozier and at least another two bats, plus some of that young pitching to come through (Singer, Bubic, Lacy, Lynch, Bowlan, etc.). That’s a big ask.
Better to move anyone other than those listed for guys that fit into either this wave or the next one because the team is not one guy away, or even two guys away. They are two starters and three bats away at a minimum. Perhaps those guys are internal, but if they aren’t, Merrifield, Salvy, and anyone else over 30 isn’t going to be helpful once this group is ready.
With Duffy injury prone, I doubt there’s any interest. Maybe someone offers something for Minor, but the Royals have never shown any interest in moving Merrifield, despite the fact that his age meant he was never really part of the rebuild - we think of him as a young player because he wasn’t on the 2014-15 teams, but he debuted at 27 and is 32 now. He never fit the rebuild timeline and should have been traded two years ago, not because he isn’t a good player, but precisely because he is and would have brought back some good players that fit the rebuild timeline.
KU has to either go for the Big 10 or the less attractive option of the Pac-12. The Pac-12 means conference games starting at 9 PM most nights. That would suck. In the Big 10, at least you have most conference games starting at either 6, 7 or 8 at the latest (probably 6 or 7 all the time). That’s workable.
The big hangup is KState. The legislature may not let KU leave KState behind, which may doom both to a non major conference.
@Crimsonorblue22 asks a fair question of how much Big Dave improves. I think he will be improved because he is a hard worker. The question is not if he improves, or even how much, but where.
If Dave improves as a scorer, that helps some, because Self will always want to be able to throw the ball into the post, but because Dave isn’t a superstar scorer, unless he improves to that level, too much improvement here could be a detriment because it may lead KU to trying to run its offense through Big Dave rather than keeping things on the perimeter, where there are better scorers. So if Dave isn’t a superstar scorer, KU is better off with him more or less being the same, because him getting more touches may not improve the team long term.
Now, if Big Dave has improved as a passer, we are talking about some major team improvement here because now we are talking about him kicking the ball out from the post to a bevy of capable shooters. While a modest improvement in scoring doesn’t necessarily help KU next year, a modest improvement as a passer does because that unlocks parts of the offense that currently are not open.
In the same vein, a modest improvement as a rebounder helps KU because it means Big Dave can more ably be relied on as the sole big man in the lineup without KU getting smashed on the boards. This is also an area where Dave has a chance to really improve, so improvements here would be noticeable from him to even the most casual fan, and it would make a big difference for the team as well.
If Big Dave improves defensively, particularly with rim protection, this is where KU probably improves the most. He isn’t bad defensively now, but if he improves into a true deterrent around the rim, that helps KU’s otherwise pedestrian perimeter defense move closer to a championship quality group. KU has a chance to be improved on the perimeter defensively next year as a unit (having one or two top notch defenders doesn’t help if other guys are below average). If that happens and Dave can anchor the defense in the middle, again, that allows for a noticeable improvement, raising both the floor and the ceiling for this team.
KU will be very solid, but likely not great. I look at the roster and see tons of good (even very good) players, but no superstars.
That probably means 20 something wins, finishing top three in the conference (lots of rebuilding going on in the Big 12) with a real shot at winning the conference, a top 4 NCAA tournament seed and a trip to the Sweet Sixteen. I don’t see Final Four on this team right now, but the season I just described would have 95% of fan bases absolutely salivating for the start of the season (seriously, if you are a fan of Cal, or Mississippi State, or Purdue, or Boston College, or Iowa State, and you knew right now that the next basketball season held that as the likely outcome, those fanbases would be beyond excited for November to get here). We are spoiled as KU fans, because that’s a great season most places, but just a kind of okay season in Lawrence.
Still, that’s what I am anticipating. If things break right, I could see KU winning the Big 12 going away, getting a top 2 seed and being in the hunt for a Final Four, but that will require some guys to step forward on both ends of the floor.
@Marco said in NCAA loses more power... again...:
@justanotherfan you are wrong. That is the direction that all of this going.
@Marco you may be right that this is all heading in that direction. Right now, that is not where it is at. All we have right now is the right of each student athlete to profit off their name, image and likeness in the commercial market, much as anyone else.
Now, that could certainly mean getting “appearance fees” from boosters, but those aren’t taxpayer dollars. That could also mean getting endorsement deals from global sports companies, or even local businesses. Again, not taxpayer dollars.
If that ultimately means schools wind up paying student athletes to attend because that’s where the market goes, well, that’s just capitalism and market forces at work. Having the NCAA over-regulate to prevent that is wrong.
But that’s a future possibility. The now is just name, image and likeness. That’s not money from individual schools, unless those individual schools use the name, image or likeness of an athlete to promote particular events.
The schools are not going to pay the athletes directly, at least not at this point.
The only thing that is happening is that a student athlete can now earn money from other means while maintaining their eligibility.
A few years ago, a University of Miami football player who was also a music producer was in a position to get a production credit, and the pay that comes with it, on a rap album for a song he helped produce. The NCAA said that he could not take the compensation without losing his eligibility. Point me to any other scholarship student that would lose their scholarship in that scenario?
Another football player from South Florida had a growing social media presence, but the NCAA told him that he either had to de-monetize his social media, or lose his scholarship. He gave up his scholarship.
The NCAA ultimately took it too far. They got to a point where they were preventing athletes from making money in other pursuits while on scholarship. That has always been my issue. I went to college on an academic scholarship. I knew other scholarship students that made extra cash by proofreading papers, tutoring high school students, teaching test prep strategies, etc. At no point were any of our scholarships in jeopardy because of that. But an athlete can’t even pursue other interests and get paid for it, let alone get paid for teaching athletic skills.
If this ruins college sports for you, I don’t know what to say.
For me, it actually may get me to watch a bit more. I had cut back on how much I watched college sports because I was tired of lining the pockets of coaches, university presidents, athletic directors and others at the expense of the players. There was a time where I watched almost every second of KU basketball. You guys on here know that, and have probably seen the degree to which I have dropped off in the last couple of years from my lack of comments here. This may help bring me back more often because the players will now have opportunities to benefit for themselves rather than just making other people rich.
@tis4tim said in Coach K to retire after 21-22 season:
@mayjay said in Coach K to retire after 21-22 season:
Almost everyone remembers Mario’s shot, but true fans appreciate Sherron as having made it possible with magic ball-handling (avoiding being fouled) and that beautiful pass while falling down. But his corner falling-out-of-bounds pass leading to his 3 ptr a couple seconds later was crucial to the comeback, too!
I thought it then and after watching the video this morning after many years my opinion hasn’t changed: when that 3-pointer from Sherron left his hand I will swear to my dying day that the shot was off. It looked like it was destined to carom off the heel for a long rebound.
It could be a trick of the light or the camera angle, but I believe someone or something steered that ball into the hoop.
I think it’s the way the lighting is in the dome coming off the backboard that makes the shot look off. I never really thought about it, but I just watched it a bunch of times and it does look like its heading off before seeming to veer in.
I think Marcus is a great draft and stash in the GLeague second rounder. He’s a potentially elite defender, and if he can put together any sort of offensive game to go with that, he’s a useful rotation player, possibly even a starting caliber player on a playoff team.
But he needs GLeague time to develop his offensive game. He won’t benefit from sitting on an NBA bench because he needs to get up shots. Probably needs to fully rebuild his shooting stroke.
@approxinfinity said in Jo Jo just been a beast so far:
LeBron pointing at the condensed season as the reason all the stars are gimpy. He’s not wrong.
This is going to lead to more rest for guys next season, and the inevitable accusations of players being soft now because they aren’t playing a full season.
Truth is, guys need the rest and time to heal, and since they didn’t have it, guys are breaking down this year at an alarming pace. The champ this year is probably going to be the team that can get to the finish line mostly intact, because every team is leaking oil at this point.
@Texas-Hawk-10 said in Coach K to retire after 21-22 season:
@justanotherfan Bad take. Bill Self’s top responsibility is win games for Kansas, not develop all star NBA players. 5 of the guys listed are still on NBA rosters.
Bill Self and his staff develop players to win games for Kansas, not NBA teams.
I agree and disagree with you on that, @Texas-Hawk-10. I absolutely agree that Coach Self is at KU to win games for KU, and will say that he has done a phenomenal job of accomplishing that.
But when you are talking about recruiting, as an individual player, those guys are looking for the best place to develop for them in the long term. And on that point, the returns are not as strong.
Think of it this way - if you were weighing two different collegiate academic programs, one of which had professors that were consistently published in their field and universally acclaimed as top academic minds, and the other that consistently placed its graduates in top paying jobs, as a student, which are you choosing? Chances are, the program that has a reputation for placing graduates in good jobs because, frankly, the scholarship of your professors won’t pay your bills.
Bill Self is a great coach. But I’d argue that of that list I put up, only Vick, White, Johnson, Grimes and Greene should have legitimately missed in the NBA.
Wright was a top 10 recruit. So was Jackson. Same for Selby. And Henry. Oubre, Rush, Selden, Giddens, McLemore, and Newman were all top 25 recruits. Those are guys that should have NBA careers.
If I am advising a wing player and I see that list, I think twice about KU, not because Bill Self isn’t a good coach (he absolutely is), but because something isn’t clicking on wing development.
And here’s the thing - we have seen that, at least while Manning was here, big man development was basically automatic. Arthur, Aldrich, Kaun, Darnell Jackson, Morris Twins, TRob - I could go on. All of those guys developed into the type of player you expected, maybe even exceeded those expectations (in the case of Aldrich, Kaun and certainly Darnell Jackson, I say exceeded for sure).
So I’m not saying Self doesn’t develop guys.
We can go through PGs. RussRob, Frank Mason, Devontae, DDot, Tyshawn. Again, the list is darn good on that front.
So if bigs are developing like you would expect (maybe better), and PGs are developing like you would expect (maybe better), where’s that same development on the wing? I’d argue KU has had more wing talent than either at the point or in the paint.
There’s a YouTube Channel out there called Stunted Growth. It’s an interesting look back at some failed recruits and guys that were college stars that did not make the leap to the next level. Anyway, the channel has several videos on former KU players.
Julian Wright, Wayne Selden, Kansas City’s Rush Brothers, Cliff Alexander, Josh Jackson, JR Giddens, Thomas Robinson, Sherron Collins, Billy Preston, Josh Selby, Xavier Henry, Malik Newman, Andrew Wiggins and Ben McLemore all have videos.
I find the videos interesting (the guy has tons of content on the page of lots of former hyped recruits and college stars) because the creator takes time to look at why a particular player did not succeed, be it injuries, coaching changes, off court issues, bad advice, choosing the wrong school or whatever.
It’s also interesting because this guy actually played college ball and tells his own story of how he stunted his own growth with a lack of work ethic, coaching changes, transfers, etc. that ultimately short circuited his career. I don’t always agree with him, but I enjoy the perspective.
I post it here because that list of KU top level recruits happens to reveal a very troubling pattern - it is very wing heavy. Of the 13 players I have listed there, only Robinson, Alexander, Preston, Collins and Selby were not projected as wing players at the NBA level.
So why can’t KU develop wings?
It’s not for a lack of talent. Besides the guys listed above, KU has had top 100 recruits Kelly Oubre, Svi, Elijah Johnson (although you could consider him a PG if you want), Quentin Grimes, LaGerald Vick, Andrew White III, and Brannen Greene all come to KU since Self arrived.
That’s a lot of wing talent to have come through with only Wiggins becoming an established starter in the NBA, and only Oubre, McLemore, Svi and Jackson being regular rotation players.
Why doesn’t KU (particularly under Self) develop wing talent more consistently? That’s a question we have to answer, because top recruits are asking that same question.
Defense oriented teams are going to be less volatile because defense is something you can make work, more or less, regardless of personnel, especially in high school and to some degree college.
Defense first works best in middle school and high school because the talent level of offensive players is generally not high enough to completely upend what you are doing defensively. Even in college, most players can’t just overwhelm you with individual offensive skill. That’s why you see so many defense first coaches that are successful at the collegiate level. If you can coach defense in high school and college, you have a good baseline for a winning team.
But that introduces something most won’t admit - the majority of the winningest college coaches are poor offensive coaches. That’s why so few college coaches can succeed in the NBA. They do not have the game planning and creative chops to create something new when the defense takes away their first couple of options.
Recall Roy Williams’ last championship team. They ranked 100th in 2P FG%, 154th in 3P%, and 176th in FT%. They were an average or worse shooting team. The only reason they scored at an above average rate is because they led the country in offensive rebounding, which meant they attempted the 4th most shots in the country. They were a pedestrian offensive team that beat people on the glass and was solid defensively (mostly owing to the fact that they were also a top 25 defensive rebounding team). That is a winning formula in college.
Virginia is consistently a very efficient (but slow) offensive team that is among the top 10 in defense (usually top 5). You can do that without NBA talent, and as the talent in D1 basketball has fallen (and will continue to fall), a really good defensive team will be more consistent because there will be fewer and fewer truly dynamic offensive players in the college game.
Look around college hoops. How many truly great offensive players were there? Not many. Probably fewer than 15. And for many of those guys, they were either surrounded by below average talent, or they were coached by a below average coach.
A few months ago we were debating why Trae Young didn’t have as much of a positive effect on OU as Cade Cunningham did on OSU. One thing I did not note, that I realized as I have been watching the NBA playoffs is that Trae Young also benefits from having more talented teammates surrounding him. Having great shooters and lob catchers on the floor with him elevates his offensive game, and allows him to elevate the skills of his teammates. In college, Trae Young wasn’t surrounded by multiple deadly shooters that could space the floor. Watching him with Atlanta, it’s clear they have done a great job of getting him those types of teammates. That level of offensive talent doesn’t exist on any college team, so focusing on defense at the collegiate level makes sense.
College is also a lousy place to develop for the NBA, honestly. The teammates usually aren’t good enough. The coaching philosophy is different. About the only benefit is that you play a full season with quite a bit of structure and routine, which can be helpful if a player has never had that in their development. I think that’s why we will see the most NBA ready talent moving towards the GLeague and other development paths as things continue to progress.
It’s very hard to replace a legend, whether you are inside or outside the family. Expectations are high. Margins are thin. Every word you say, every interview, every in game decision, every recruit you get (or miss), it is all evaluated against the fantasy of the previous coach. Oh, former coach wouldn’t have done that. Former coach doesn’t lose that game. Former coach closes the deal on that recruit. Former coach… on and on and on.
If Hubert Davis loses 8 games this year, all 8 will be blown up like the end of the world (reminder that UNC went 18-11 this past season). But people will suddenly act as if Roy Williams hadn’t lost a game in his last five years coaching after every UNC loss. That’s just the nature of replacing a legend.
Same thing will happen at Duke when Coach K leaves, and at Syracuse when Boeheim leaves.
I think both types could benefit.
In a big market (particularly near campus) there are lots of local services. You think the local campus pizza place or other small companies wouldn’t partner with the local star as a recognizeable face? I’m not talking huge money. Only a handful of athletes would ever get that at the college level (Zion Williamson is probably the best recent example).
But for lots of college athletes, making a couple thousand dollars a year from endorsements, plus a bit from donor events and camps and you have a small income, which is more than you can do now.
A smart university could even set up partnerships to match athletes with products/companies locally. Win for the athlete. Win for the business. Win for the university.
Drew does a good job of taking guys that haven’t fully realized their potential and getting them to that full potential.
Davion Mitchell is a good example of this. He was a 4 star recruit out of high school and went to Auburn, where he promptly played less than 20 minutes a game in a very unspectacular fashion. He left after one season and sat at Baylor for the required year. He starts immediately as a redshirt sophomore playing 30 minutes a game for a top notch team with a very well rounded game. Then this past year he was basically even better as an all around player, and dramatically improved his shooting and playmaking. He basically left Auburn as a 8th or 9th man, then at Baylor he was suddenly a fringe All conference type player, then an All American.
At Auburn, Mitchell was a disappointment. He became everything he had the potential to become at Baylor.
Same goes for Jared Butler. A similar trajectory looks likely for Jonathan Tchamwa Tchatchoua.
I’d argue that you can’t point to a single guy off the last two Baylor teams that didn’t at least meet expectations, and many exceeded them. That’s a truly rare thing.
Tampering is going to be the new place where sanctions come. And to get shut out of accepting transfers from the portal for a year? Or two years? In this environment, that might as well be the death penalty. But it would be significant enough that programs wouldn’t risk tampering.
It could hurt midmajors, for sure. But if they are smart about it, do good work in the NIL space and have a good culture, that’s worth just as much.
If you’re Cleveland State (picking a random school) and you have a good culture (no idea if they do or not) and a kid has a foundation on which to build their personal brand through NIL, isn’t that more appealing than being the 8th man at Ohio State, or the 6th guy at Purdue? Especially if you can make some money along the way with NIL.
Find someone in the business department or the law school that will help athletes profit, and that’s a recruiting tool.
@Marco said in Jalen Coleman-Lands:
@BShark said in Jalen Coleman-Lands:
@justanotherfan Yep. There is going to be even less loyalty both ways now going forward with the new rules. I know of a couple coaches that will for sure be going harder at transfers than HS recruits because they don’t want to wait for them to develop.
Which is why I said that the new rules might actually benefit mid-majors --more hs talent available. A player graduates, and a KU or UK just plugs in another with the same or better skillset.
Cuts either way.
The strong midmajors that have a good culture/environment will keep their guys. The ones that don’t will develop players, only to see them jump ship after a year or two.
Bad coaches get punished by seeing their players leave. Good ones get rewarded because their guys will stay.
Another thing that gets overlooked when a coach leaves is that often, many of the players that the coach brought in end up getting shafted on playing time because the new coach has no stake in their development - they aren’t his recruits.
The new coach has a much bigger interest in developing “his” guys than the previous coach’s remaining players. At a lot of schools, this means that the new coach actually forces out the guys that do stay, costing them two years of eligibility (the year they stayed and didn’t play, plus a year sitting out once they transfer).
That’s actually the biggest reason the transfer portal exists. Coaches were forcing kids out because the pressure is on them to win now (if they got hired to replace a struggling coach or the previous guy was hired because his team was doing so well). Since coaches had the pressure on them to force kids out, and more and more kids were speaking out about it (social media was opening more eyes to this), there had to be a solution before it got really ugly.
After all, the NCAA doesn’t want people to find out that coaches are yanking kids scholarships to force them to transfer so they can open up spots for new recruits.
@FarmerJayhawk said in Coach Leipold:
They’ve also done a Zoom with Kansas HS coaches. Doing another one tonight with KC area HS coaches.
Getting a strong base in the KC area (and in the Wichita area) will be the key to getting back on track. Those are the two areas that obviously will produce the bulk of D1 talent in the state, so you have to hit those hard.
And that’s the problem. There’s the potential that someone will impress Self defensively in the preseason and get way too many minutes. That’s my biggest fear.
My concern with this KU team is that Self, by default, likes a strong defensive team. Problem is, the best players (likely anyway) on this team are probably not defensive stalwarts. That means that Self will almost certainly over play a guy that is a lesser talent because they are an improvement on defense. We have seen that throughout his time at KU.
So how does this team fit together knowing that Self will want some better defensive players on the floor?
This definitely raised the overall talent level on the roster. I need to go back and watch Martin to see if the fit is there given the confusing roster construction we have right now.
He’s a bona fide go to scorer, something we have lacked a bit the last couple of years - a guy you can just give the ball to and he figures out how to get a bucket.
This raises the ceiling on the team for next year. Depending on fit, it may also raise the floor.
I think conferences are discovering that stretching a conference across more than two time zones is a logistical nightmare that will ultimately lose money. You just can’t get TV times right if your viewing market is in three different time zones. When should weekday games tip? 6 is 5 PM in the Mountain time zone, and 4 out west, so that’s too early. On the other hand, if you tip at 9 Central, that’s your prime viewing slot out west, but getting started that late in the Central time zone kills the home market for those games. It’s almost impossible to make everyone happy.
All of these small guards are going to make defense really tough. I can’t figure out how this roster is going to fit together.
We don’t have a dominant post player. We don’t have a dynamic wing scorer. Other than Braun, there’s a chance we won’t have a guard or wing over 6-3. This team is built like its 1986. We are probably two players away from finishing this roster construction. And they need to be big time players.
An above average HS athlete can probably make a D3 team if they are a good student and hard worker. For many D3 schools, once you get into their backups, the talent pool begins to thin out. If you are a good student (D3’s don’t give out athletic scholarships, only academic) you have a good shot to make the team, particularly if you are willing to stay and work.
Because of that, it makes it more financially palatable for the college. Most games are regionalized. Many of the conferences are located within the same state, in fact. It does give a student a chance to live their dream, but since these are almost all private colleges, if you aren’t on academic scholarship, be prepared to pay $35k or more per year.
I agree with you 100%. The Chiefs addressed each area of need, and did so in a very deliberate and organized way. I think they eliminated their weaknesses and are at least league average at every position.
OL was the clear weakness, so they dedicated the most resources to it in free agency and with trades and draft capital. Coming away with Brown, Thuney, Long and Blythe, and having Niang and LDT back essentially remakes six of the top seven spots along the line. Adding in Humphrey was a nice long term move. The O-line went from a definite weakness to at least solid, maybe a strength.
WR is a bit thin behind Hill, but you can do worse than Hardman and Robinson as your 2 and 3 guys. Adding a WR through the draft, even a project guy, helps here, too.
I liked what they did getting Bell back. I would have liked to see them add another blocking TE, but a pass catching weapon when you have Mahomes is always going to be a plus.
I think they were right to not do anything at RB. That’s probably the area that can most easily be addressed on the FA market, especially since you don’t need a star, or even a starter.
D-line, I am really wondering if Frank Clark has ever been fully healthy. He’s only looked explosive for about three games in two seasons. That makes me question his health. He may have to be rotated and platooned more to get more out of him.
LB was a good investment. We need athleticism underneath. Would like to see about maybe adding to this group in FA as well for a role player/special teams piece.
I actually feel really good about DB. Young group. Athletic. Deep. Versatile. Between Fenton, Thornhill, Mathieu and Watts, all of them can play corner or safety. That’s rare from a group of DBs. It also allows Sorenson to play a more natural rover/monster role rather than deep end coverage.
@AsadZ said in 2021-2022 Roster:
Time will tell as to how this draft plays out, however, so far, all analysts are calling this to be a solid draft for Chiefs, A- range.
Without having a high pick, this draft was great for the Chiefs. They addressed their biggest needs with the picks they had, and got some potential future starters (Humphrey, Bolton, maybe Trey Smith and Cornell Powell down the line). If they get 2 starters out of this group without having a top 50 pick, that’s a great draft. Three would be amazing.
And that doesn’t account for the fact that they essentially spent their first pick on a surefire Pro Bowl caliber starter in Orlando Brown, Jr., not a guy with the potential to be an NFL starter.
I have no real issue with the Leipold hire. I wish he were a few years younger, I suppose, but that’s about it. He will have to demonstrate some recruiting skill, but with transfer eligibility the way it is, you can remake your roster on the fly now, so if he’s got the skill, KU could turn over the roster relatively quickly, making a rebuild a bit more possible.
12 more months to wrap up an investigation into things that happened going on four years ago now? At this point, even if they do find wrongdoing, what are the appropriate penalties?
Preston is gone from KU. The coach that primarily recruited him is also gone.
The big names from other schools like Duke and Arizona are playing out the last years of their rookie contract by next spring, or working on extensions. What’s the point in pursuing those schools. Zona has a new coach, also. The investigations are taking so long that, if they decide to penalize anyone, they are penalizing kids that were freshmen and sophomores in high school when the events that led to any penalties actually happened.
This is beyond ridiculous. At this point its just silly.
I see he has put on some weight. I always wondered if he was a bit too small for P5. The margin of error is so thin if you are below 6-3 or below 180 pounds. There are exceptions, of course, but you have to be an absolute stud at that point.
He’s a very good player, and certainly addresses the “shooter” need for this team. I do wonder how he fits in to upgrade the athleticism of the team, though.
@Texas-Hawk-10 said in So- with all these players coming and going, what is next years team gonna look like?:
@drgnslayr The problem with your hindsight is KU’s guards couldn’t shoot for shit and gave no reason for defenses to not focus on taking away KU’s driving because there was no reason to respect KU’s outside shooting this year. Dave was KU’s best offensive option for much of the season because KU couldn’t shoot for shit.
Cam Martin and Josef Yesufu are good shooters that should force defenses to have to extend out. Even more than athleticism, KU needed people who could shoot so going inside to Dave doesn’t automatically turn into double or triple teams like it did last season.
KU had the double whammy of having guys that didn’t have either an athletic advantage or a shooting advantage. That tripped us up all season.
The biggest benefit that the Royals have is the shortened draft. Having a shorter draft gives teams that scout well an advantage if they find diamonds in the rough. It really opens things up for teams that do their homework.
Obviously the big market teams can do that, but finding those key players that are not high picks can help a team. Jarrod Dyson was a 50th round pick. With the draft down to 20 rounds now, the teams that can find those types of players will be at an advantage.
And then of course, the ability to develop players will always be at a premium.
With most rosters still unknown, I don’t know how you peg anyone for any seed.
I know the family a little. That was something that was very important to him personally, so its no surprise that he sought out another program with a black coach.
I think we will see more players that emphasize that in this social situation.
As you mentioned, the NBA is a superstar driven league, with the rest of the spots filled with role players and specialists.
Now ask yourself, in his minutes this year, was Bryce Thompson able to showcase his skills in any way that would give an NBA GM a reason to think he has the skillset to fill any of those roles on an NBA team? The answer is clearly NO.
So when you are comparing it to the business world, you see Thompson (or McClung or Grimes, or whoever) as a guy that at their previous school didn’t even have the qualifications to apply. They are the equivalent of a resume that doesn’t even pass the initial screening to get to the hiring committee.
But by transferring, McClung and Grimes have both gotten opportunities to really show their abilities. Grimes particularly.
You also have to remember that the NBA isn’t going to have a lot of guys, particularly role players, that will stay with one team for a long time. Robert Horry, perhaps the greatest role player of his generation, won seven championships with three different teams (and played for four teams, total).
Some of the best role players in the league now have played for 3 or 4 teams already in their career. The Morris twins have each played for multiple teams (Markieff has played for five, Marcus for six).
Most players, especially role players, won’t play for just one franchise, so it’s doubtful an NBA GM holds attending multiple colleges against them. That may be a benefit, because they have already seen two different systems and coaching staffs.
We cannot always assume that a kid leaving KU is leaving because they:
Many of these guys can play, and end up having good careers elsewhere. Many end up playing a similar role that they could have played at KU, but were never given the opportunity. Some get bigger roles elsewhere.
Stepping back from athletics for a moment, college is about finding the opportunities that are going to take you into adulthood in the best possible position. That’s how I approached college. It’s about finding out what you want to do and putting yourself in the best position for a future career.
For “student-athletes” its the same. They have to put themselves in the best possible position for their future career, as well as for themselves. I had a friend (non-athlete) that went to a certain school (not KU). After their freshman year, the school re-vamped the department they were majoring in. After the fall of their sophomore year, they transferred. They felt like the restructured department wasn’t going to be good for them, so they left.
Another friend attended a different school, knowing full well that they intended to transfer after their sophomore year. They wanted to go close to home to get some Gen Ed credit (and save some money) before pursuing the school they really wanted to graduate from.
In both cases, those students made decisions that were best for them, and I’m not sure anyone should hold that against them. So why do we treat athletes differently? Bryce Thompson has a shot at being a fringe NBA player. If his career continues on the trajectory it had at KU, that possibility gets less and less likely. Tyon Grant Foster should be a contributor for an NCAA tournament team, or a star for a fringe bubble team. He barely played at KU, even though KU sorely needed a player like him (athletic guy that could defend multiple positions). I wouldn’t be surprised if both Thompson and Grant-Foster have big years next season in a new uniform - seasons they likely would not have been able to have staying in crimson and blue.
I’m not saying Ochai will be Keith Langford. Langford was a better recruit, and had a much better collegiate career. But I think Ochai could be a 10 year Euroballer for some good teams, maybe win a championship, etc. He probably has a higher ceiling in Europe than he does in the NBA. He’s a good enough player to be a starter (and possible star) in Europe right now with little change or improvement.
I mentioned Kawhi Leonard as career path comp for his NBA star scenario. Ochai isn’t Kawhi, obviously, but if he were to become an NBA star, that would likely be the career trajectory that he would follow.
I mentioned Danny Green as a comp for the starter scenario. Danny Green is a very accomplished NBA player after 4 years at UNC and some GLeague time. If Ochai becomes an NBA starter, this is probably the career trajectory that he follows.
Same for the other guys. Those are rough comps, but those are the career trajectories that he likely follows if he gets to that level. The success level will vary, but those are the basic blueprints.
Ochai’s best case at the next level is a 3 and D guy that maybe turns into a starter or star with more development.
5% scenario - star after a couple years as he develops his ball handling more and becomes a creator off the dribble. Think Kawhi Leonard.
10% scenario - starter as an impact defender, third or fourth scoring option that can sometimes get hot from three. Think Danny Green.
25% scenario - 3 and D wing off the bench. Think Derrick Jones, Jr. or PJ Dozier.
35% scenario - two way/ 10 day contract guy, followed by a long career overseas. Think Wayne Selden.
24% scenario - high level Euroballer. Think Keith Langford.
1% scenario - no pro ball.
Trae Young has a specific skillset that doesn’t necessarily help his teammates develop even though he can make them better. Trae Young can stretch the defense in weird ways with his shooting, giving teammates more room to operate than normal. He also is a very talented passer, which, combined with how he bends and twists defenses with his range, makes for some abnormal situations for his teammates on the offensive end. And of course, Trae Young was a below average defender, which meant that his teammates had to manipulate the floor in certain ways on that end to cover for him sometimes.
Cunningham, on the other hand, is a very well rounded player. He’s a good defender. He handles, shoots, rebounds and scores well. He can play on or off the ball. He can play inside or out on both ends. That means that teammates can play their normal role with him, as opposed to having to play the role best suited to play around Young, who was really an on ball player, and couldn’t really play multiple positions because of his size.
So with Young, if you were a player that really needed to have the ball in your hands to develop, well, too bad, because Young needs the ball in his hands and he’s better. Cunningham slides off ball and you keep rolling.
If you’re a guy that needs someone to facilitate for you in order for you to play well, Cunningham takes over on ball and gets you the ball where you need it.
You’re a big that needs interior space to operate. Cunningham can open up the floor. You’re a wing player? Cunningham can slide in at the 4 and play a stretch role, or the high post against a zone. Young couldn’t move into any of those roles because of his size. He was strictly a PG.
Basically, Cunningham could change his game to let his teammates do whatever they did best, so they were able to develop their game. Young couldn’t because he didn’t have the size to move around to different spots and take on different roles on either end of the floor.
@BigBad I watch more NBA than college, too, particularly this year.
The top of the draft is absolutely about talent. But guys that get signed as undrafted free agents are almost always signed because they have a specific fit with their skillset.
Take a guy like Seth Curry. He went to Duke and was undrafted after starting his college career at Liberty. He’s been in the NBA for seven seasons now.
He’s been able to stay in the NBA because he’s an elite shooter/ball handler that understands defensive concepts enough to not get run off the floor.
He spent time in the G-League as well. But the big thing is that he developed after college by getting things to work on from pro coaches that ultimately have made him a solid guard off the bench.
That’s likely Jalen Wilson’s best hope. GLeague to NBA with the hope of being a rotation guy off the bench for a few years.
And it has worked out nicely for Seth Curry. He’s made about $17M in his NBA career.
This sucks. Sorry to hear about your loss.
Stay safe everyone.
Feedback from pro scouts is different because individual teams can tell a player how they might fit in their system.
Golden State is heavy on off ball movement. Philly runs lots of post ups and isos. Portland does a lot of PnR. Denver operates with Jokic in the high post or the extended post. In each of those systems, Jalen’s role would be different, so he will get different feedback from each team. Same on defense. Some teams switch everything. Some ice the PnR. Others trap it. Again, each of those roles requires different things, so the feedback is different, and specific in a way that college coaches just aren’t going to be because they aren’t on the inside of those systems to know what a team may envision someone like Jalen Wilson doing.
This is especially important for a guy like Jalen Wilson that is more likely to be undrafted than a high pick. This information may help him pick the best team to sign with if he does get a chance to break into the NBA in later years. Maybe he impresses a couple of scouts and that opens up the opportunity for him.
Dave McCormack played GREAT down the stretch. He was as good as he could have possibly been. He played well in most every game, and even came up huge against Eastern Washington in a game we likely lose if he doesn’t play that well.
But again, that’s the problem.
Big Dave played at or near the top of his game and this was a second round team because Big Dave was not a good fit with the rest of this team from a basketball perspective.
Big Dave needs to play with a really athletic power forward that can do the things that are not his strength - mainly rim protection and rebounding. A player like Jonathan Tchamwa Tchatchoua (or Silvio De Sousa) would have been a great compliment to Dave because they would have defended the best interior player from the other team, and provided the rebounding and rim protection necessary to be successful. Once De Sousa was out, KU did not have that anymore.
He also needs creative guys on the perimeter (think a guy like Frank Mason) that can drive and distribute to keep the floor opened up for him. Ideally, that guy is also a really strong defensive player so the other team’s PG can’t constantly put Big Dave into the PnR, where he struggles. Dajuan Harris could do some of that, but because he wasn’t a scoring threat, it limited how effective he was.
And of course, Big Dave needed consistent shooters around him at all times. Other than Braun and Agbaji, this KU team did not have that at all.
So the ideal Big Dave lineup this year would have been McCormack, De Sousa, Braun, Agbaji and a better scoring version of Harris (or a more confident Thompson). You notice that Marcus Garrett and Jalen Wilson, arguably KU’s other top players this year, are not on that list. And that’s where the problems start.
To play Big Dave, you have to basically sit two of your other best three or four players. That’s not sustainable. On the other hand, if you spread the floor and play small with Wilson at the 4 or 5 with a variety of guards around, you end up not really playing Big Dave (except with the above lineup, switching in Wilson for De Sousa and accepting that you are going to give up some rebounds), but the majority of the minutes you play very small.
As I said before, that may have gone horribly. I can clearly see the flaws and the potential to get destroyed defensively and on the glass.
But I can also see a bunch of lineups where teams can’t figure out how to guard Wilson and Garrett at the 5 and 4. Garrett using his quickness and smarts to take advantage of slower bigs that play off him. Wilson dragging 5’s out to the three point line. The other perimeter guys feasting on the open lane, getting drives and backcuts for layups and dunks, or open threes as defenders help when Wilson and Garrett drive.
I can see a scrappy, trapping defense that can switch more or less anything, forcing just enough turnovers and rebounding just enough to create opportunities and keep teams from grinding them in the paint.
Could that type of team make a deep run in the tournament? Yes. Could that type of team miss the tournament entirely? Also yes.
But this is Kansas. We don’t hang banners and hold parades just for making the tournament.
@Fightsongwriter said in Does Baylor's title make Self hungrier?:
In the same amount of time (18 years), Self and Drew have the exact same number of NCs. Think about that. And Self inherited a Rolls Royce. Drew inherited an exploded Pinto.
Drew inherited a flat tire. Seven scholarship players in his first year. Huge scandal. No upside at all.
@FarmerJayhawk said in Bears v. Dogs:
Was texting one of my best friends who is wicked smart about hoops this exact thing. This is the optimal way to build a college basketball team. https://twitter.com/billjamesonline/status/1379290794683686913?s=21
I’m not friends with Bill James but I would really like to be lmao
The best way to build a college basketball team is always three ballhandlers, two shooters, one post scorer and three athletic interior guys.
Three ballhandlers gives you three guys that can create shots for themselves or others at any time.
Two shooters allows you to space the floor around your ballhandlers for spot up looks to punish a collapsing defense.
One post up guy gives you an interior player that you can run plays for out of timeouts, or when you need to slow things down.
Three athletic bigs eliminate the risk of foul trouble because those guys are interchangeable and can always defend and rebound, regardless of which combination is on the floor.
As Baylor demonstrated, you can get away with not having the post up big if you have enough creators on the perimeter. Baylor actually had four this year (Mitchell, Butler, Teague and Flagler). That made a huge difference with being able to always draw the defense for a lob to a lurking big man inside.
But more than that, the most important thing is to have at least three NBA caliber players on the roster. Mitchell and Butler are sure things, and it wouldn’t surprise me to see one of those big guys make it as well. I could see Flagler or Teague also get a shot in the NBA.
The biggest takeaway from last night, though, is that Gonzaga still needs more NBA caliber talent to win a national title. Timme looked overwhelmed at times. Only Kispert and Suggs didn’t seem rattled at any point. Ayayi was a nonfactor. Nembhard disappeared. They got very little from their bench.
I thought the Zags had three or four NBA caliber guys. Turns out they may have only had two. And that’s why they lost.