Ochai
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If Ochai is really good, then he’ll be gone after his junior year anyway. We lost little. If he’s Releford-esque, then we lost the first semester of this season is all. I love the move if he can help now. Further, if we can’t replace him in what would be his fifth season, we’re slipping in recruiting. I sell the 4th year all day long in this climate. Exceptions, of course. But I’m all for it – mainly because Self knows why he wants it done.
Further, there is the possibility that of Ochai plays, and he’s bad for whatever reason, then can fall back on the stress fracture thing and get him the redshirt anyway if he doesn’t go over the max games.
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@BeddieKU23 On the other hand, someone who can actually appear in games is infinitely better than even a reincarnated Chamberlain stuck on the bench. We have been waiting for Sir Silvio to ride in on his white charger, and while his armor, or more accurately, perhaps, his Under Armour, continues to be examined back at the barn, maybe help is riding in from another direction!
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@HighEliteMajor One thing not mentioned about that RS 4th year (apologies if I missed it): That is where the crop of grad transfers come from. I think coaches will RS fewer and fewer players, or, if they have some, they will more quickly cash them in to fill a gap as Self is doing.
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@mayjay - That’s a really good point. Furthers the “don’t worry about the 4th year” thing. I’m more into the here and now, because we don’t know what four years will bring. Heck, selfishly, I might get hit by a bus … win now.
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@HighEliteMajor could they redshirt him again next year or is his redshirt burned even though it was removed?
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@Kcmatt7 Ochai … he made back to back 3s in the 2nd exhibition game. I thought he looked like our most poised freshman out there in the exhibition games. He comes from a very athletic family, and you can feel the confidence ooze from every pore. I like that. The fact they’re looking into other options other than Charlie and KJ is a positive. I don’t know if this turns out to be 4 minutes a game, 14, or 20, but I’m ready to see a new face out there. it’s not like he could do worse than Charlie.
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@approxinfinity They could redshirt him, because this year would count toward his eligibility – 5 seasons to play 4, except for a medical situation after using the initial redshirt.
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At least he will probably look at the basket before shooting, something that Charlie thinks is “optional”
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I am thinking that he must be looking good in practice…better than the other options. Might not be the best for Ochai….but you don’t know. I think this is a sign that they think SDS will not be available. If he can shoot and play decent defense…he is a definite plus to this team. I am worried about his health…stress fractures can be tough to put behind you.
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So what was everyone’s first impression of Ochai last night… He was a game changer. Very exciting to see.
The bigger question is why wasn’t he playing from the beginning. Of course we know the circumstances that created his RS.
I wonder how shocked Self is of his performance. We’ll see if he can play like that on the road at Baylor and other places that will test his poise and mentality.
I know one thing, glad he became a Hawk
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For his first game I was impressed with how well he fit in. Only seen him appear confused once or twice about where he should be which was a concern. I am looking forward to see how he handles a road game.
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I was very impressed with everything he showed last night, but most of all his poise. The moment was not too big for him and he looked like he had been in that moment thousands of times. I think one thing we can expect from him is that he is going to make the right plays and not turn the ball over too at a alarming rate like the rest of this team. Although, they did better last night besides Vick.
His athleticism is off the charts and I think he can guard 1-4 just like Garret. Having two guys like that is invaluable. You could tell that he was not looking for his shot at all last night which you can understand, but I wonder as the season goes on what his shooting % will look like as he gets / takes more shots. There is no doubt in my mind that Self is going to encourage him to be more aggressive on the offensive side of the ball as he gets more games under his belt.
Like @BeddieKU23 said I am wondering why he even red shirted in the first place. I thought the broadcast last night said something about it not being fair to K.J. as far as his minutes go, but maybe I misunderstood that. Fran mentioned it last night and I have seen other people as well say that he is this teams best long term NBA prospect so it is not like he was going to be here for 4 years. For sure not going to be here 5 years so the RS doesn’t make any sense to me.
The only concern I have moving forward as for as Och is concerned is the effect it has on Grimes. I know that Grimes had a little bit of foul trouble last night, but it was clear that Self trusted Och more than Grimes in the late minutes at the end of the game. That’s crazy when you think about it as it was his first game. There is no way this team can make a final 4 run without Grimes taking a huge step forward. Maybe that ship has sailed as it doesn’t look like he has improved much at all as the season has gone on, but hopefully this new development doesn’t hurt his confidence even more.
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It’s too bad recruiting rankings are the be all end all and Ochai wasn’t in the top 100.
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@Woodrow I think the redundancy of having 4 guards on the court (and really 5, as Dedric operates in many ways like a huge guard) should in theory allow people to remain on the court that are struggling with their shot, and not force the shot. If we just have a couple guys at any given time other than Dedric that are shooting well, we’ll be in pretty good shape. Its the same number of shooters as when we had Devonte, Svi, Frank, Jackson, Lucas, and Vick as 6th man in 2016-2017. Generally speaking, 2 to 3 of our guards needed to be shooting well for us to win, with Frank as a constant. With Dedric as a constant, thats 1 or 2 guards that need to shoot well.
So I fully expect one guard’s success to spill over into the next’s.
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I said it before, but self said last night they knew Ochai was good, but he had never seen anyone improve like he has from the beginning of the year til now. Also we were so deep. Did u read what what his mom said? Something about, wow he has really improved! Then he had the stress fracture, didn’t hear anything about that last pm. Must not have been severe if he had time to improve so much.
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Crimsonorblue22 said:
I said it before, but self said last night they knew Ochai was good, but he had never seen anyone improve like he has from the beginning of the year til now.
Embiid would like a word. But yes it is impressive.
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@BShark I think it sometimes is overlooked that Embiid was really, really good when he got here. The video we looked at when he signed evidenced incredible skill. It wasn’t the normal dunkfest stuff that some videos are. Ball-handling, footwork, shooting touch. The whole package. But he did take off with the high quality coaching applied to that skill set.
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@BShark maybe he just said he really really improved???
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Agbaji played really, really well last night. If he plays like that going forward, pulling the redshirt was well worth it.
He made an impact on both ends, and his hustle was contagious. In some ways, he’s Marcus Garrett, but a much better shooter. He gives this KU team another weapon.
Credit to Bill Self and staff for seeing that. I was very skeptical, as my posts from yesterday made clear, but Agbaji has a chance to be a big piece on this team, and he does raise the ceiling in a significant way, but also raises the floor because he’s such a well rounded player.
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Agbaji’s jump shot release looks like…Michael Jordan. I am in NO WAY comparing him to Jordan but that is who I thought of.
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Agbaji is another case file for not overreacting to Self signing lower ranked guys early. Not super early, that’s been pretty bad actually. This is why I’m not going to freak out about Self taking guys that are good HS players in their SR year. It also helps when the move isn’t out of desperation. Which Ochai was clearly not initially, as the plan was to RS him. So I’m not worried at all about McBride or Braun, I expect they will be damn good players for KU before they are done.
Side note: Cunliffe, Anrio etc…were not good HS players. Also Cunliffe was a transfer obviously, and I’d love to get away from transfers for the most part.
@HighEliteMajor Embiid definitely wasn’t a scrub, but by the end before his injury he was worlds better than the start of the year.
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BShark said:
Side note: Cunliffe, Anrio etc…were not good HS players. Also Cunliffe was a transfer obviously, and I’d love to get away from transfers for the most part.
Me too!
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I can’t spell or pronounce this dude’s name - first, or last. Could we come up with an appropriate nickname?
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@nuleafjhawk like chai tea, o chai
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@nuleafjhawk Bill calls him Och
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I call him Stud!
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@Woodrow Hopefully, our opponents will be calling him OUCH.
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BShark said:
Side note: Cunliffe, Anrio etc…were not good HS players. Also Cunliffe was a transfer obviously, and I’d love to get away from transfers for the most part.
Odd fact, Cunliffe and Adams both graduated from the same high school (Rainier Beach in Seattle). CJ Giles and Roderick Stewart also went to that school.
Given those names, its no surprise that Rainier Beach is a perennial state power in Washington, winning or playing for the state title just about every season.
Looking first at Adams, he led the state of Washington in scoring as a sophomore, junior and senior. He led two different schools to state titles while in high school. Averaged 21 points, 6 rebounds and 5 assists per game as a senior. That’s a darn good player.
Cunliffe averaged 21/9/3 as a senior, and 20/5/5 as a junior. He was the state tournament MVP as a senior when he led Rainier Beach to the title. Darn good high school player.
You don’t get recruited to a P5 school (any P5 school, not just Kansas) if you were not a stud in high school. P5 bench guys were all state picks in high school.
Take Garrett Luinstra, a current walkon at KU. He went to Lawrence Free State. All he did in high school was toss in 19 points per game and set a school record for points in a season.
Chris Teahan was an all district player at Rockhurst as a junior and senior.
Those two guys were darn good HS players.
If you were an average or below high school player, you might have a chance to walk on at a D2 or NAIA school, but if you are at a P5 school, you were a stud in high school without a doubt, and likely one of the better players in your state as a senior.
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justanotherfan said:
BShark said:
Side note: Cunliffe, Anrio etc…were not good HS players. Also Cunliffe was a transfer obviously, and I’d love to get away from transfers for the most part.
Odd fact, Cunliffe and Adams both graduated from the same high school (Rainier Beach in Seattle). CJ Giles and Roderick Stewart also went to that school.
Given those names, its no surprise that Rainier Beach is a perennial state power in Washington, winning or playing for the state title just about every season.
Looking first at Adams, he led the state of Washington in scoring as a sophomore, junior and senior. He led two different schools to state titles while in high school. Averaged 21 points, 6 rebounds and 5 assists per game as a senior. That’s a darn good player.
Cunliffe averaged 21/9/3 as a senior, and 20/5/5 as a junior. He was the state tournament MVP as a senior when he led Rainier Beach to the title. Darn good high school player.
You don’t get recruited to a P5 school (any P5 school, not just Kansas) if you were not a stud in high school. P5 bench guys were all state picks in high school.
Take Garrett Luinstra, a current walkon at KU. He went to Lawrence Free State. All he did in high school was toss in 19 points per game and set a school record for points in a season.
Chris Teahan was an all district player at Rockhurst as a junior and senior.
Those two guys were darn good HS players.
If you were an average or below high school player, you might have a chance to walk on at a D2 or NAIA school, but if you are at a P5 school, you were a stud in high school without a doubt, and likely one of the better players in your state as a senior.
Fair points. I will mention though that guys that change high schools a bunch have a giant warning sign on them. Cunliffe and Adams both moved around a bunch. Billy Preston did as well.
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One of the best 6 players on the team currently. Wild.
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I expected a let down from Ochai in his second game. I was wrong, I’m jumping on the bandwagon.
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Kcmatt7 said:
I’d love to see us press. I could only imagine how effective it would be with our length.
You and me both. I think this team has the potential to maybe become the best on-ball pressure team under Self. We’ve got enough bodies to run… and speed.
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You know my friends I realize it’s only to games , 1 at home - - 1 on the road with Ochai . - -I mean the kid just seems so calm and in control , poised - -just seems like he is total control, even in Baylor’s runs just seemed he just stayed the same attitude. Sure doesn’t seem like he is a Freshman - -and one that was going to red shirt at that.
Just seems really poised. - -and plays a solid game all around. - -Seems like a very adequate defender [ [for sure has a solid shot from the perimeter on top of that I’m getting to really like when he is on the floor - -really like the four out and ONE big in - love the combination when he is on the floor.
With him & Garrett on the floor better defenders and they team just looks better. - -I dunno maybe wetting myself , getting to hyped with him on the floor I mean it’s only two games - -BUT man the team to me anyways sure look a lot better with him on the floor , seems like the run - a lot more & they just look more fluid - probably just me but eh - you know. – ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
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Kubie said:
I expected a let down from Ochai in his second game. I was wrong, I’m jumping on the bandwagon.
you and me both. Hope there is enough room on the wagon lol , like they said the kid seems very athletic and we were red shirting this guy? - -As much as I like Mitch looking back now – would of been much better for Mitch to red shirt this year instead of Ochai . - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
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Poor Mitch! He gives us his all!
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Crimsonorblue22 said:
Poor Mitch! He gives us his all!
He is still my guy - -always s brings his hard hat. - - must of forgot it yesterday though - - 8 stitches lol - - ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
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@jayballer73 gonna have to drink thru a straw. Wonder if he can play? Sure won’t feel good if he gets hit. He’s certainly tough enough.
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Crimsonorblue22 said:
@jayballer73 gonna have to drink thru a straw. Wonder if he can play? Sure won’t feel good if he gets hit. He’s certainly tough enough.
I don’t know for sure what they going to do about that. – Ya know I for sure don’t have no problems with them running the 4 out and 1 in , but just kind of wondering how Big Dave is doing emotionally right now as Coach had even said his role was gonna increase - -& then Coach had said before the Baylor game that he thought we would probably have to play 2 big’s more. - -Bad scenario would be if he gets frustrated with the way things playing out and end up transferring.
He obviously hadn’t thought he was gonna be starting by any means - -BUT I think he was thinking he would be getting more minutes then what he has. Hope he sticks with it. Possibly get some more time depending on how they handle Mitch’s injury - - ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
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@jayballer73 - you are literally the only person I’ve seen suggest Dave M might want to transfer… He knew when he came that he would be behind Dok and SDS, but now he has playing time. I believe he’ll grow. And stay…
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@jayballer73 as @Gorilla72 said David knew we had bigs when he came to town. Self said earlier in the season that Mitch would’ve red shirted had SDS been cleared.
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Mitch just snapped a ton a food on snapchat that he appeared to be eating. I doubt that it severe enough for him not to play. There is a risk of pulling the stitches but where they are at I’d say its unlikely.
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@kjayhawks wow! 8 stitches in his lip? Was it mashed potatoes? Pudding?
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@Crimsonorblue22 it was chicken and shrimp at longhorn steak house
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@kjayhawks lol
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Gorilla72 said:
@jayballer73 - you are literally the only person I’ve seen suggest Dave M might want to transfer… He knew when he came that he would be behind Dok and SDS, but now he has playing time. I believe he’ll grow. And stay…
ok so exactly what is your point? look everyone can have some sort of opinion - -I wasn’t trying to get any people to think it’s a ridiculous -the response to what I said you coming across to me is like I’m some sort of idiot - all I was ASKING more then stating was about him maybe be frustrated that’s all thanks budy
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thinking maybe it’s time for me to step away from this little site for some time - seems like I’m getting some people’s feathers ruffled - So gone for a bit see ya all in a little while - -just the way I’m seeing things - - hang in there guys while I’m gone - -I’ll be pulling for them too - - I’m OUT ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
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jayballer73 said:
Gorilla72 said:
@jayballer73 - you are literally the only person I’ve seen suggest Dave M might want to transfer… He knew when he came that he would be behind Dok and SDS, but now he has playing time. I believe he’ll grow. And stay…
ok so exactly what is your point? look everyone can have some sort of opinion - -I wasn’t trying to get any people to think it’s a ridiculous -the response to what I said you coming across to me is like I’m some sort of idiot - all I was ASKING more then stating was about him maybe be frustrated that’s all thanks budy
Naw. I didn’t mean it that way. Read it as “Interesting take. Are people thinking that? We need Big Dave!”
Hang around. Your opinions, especially on recruiting, are insightful.
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Big Dave is gonna Cole up a Psycho T for us this year.
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@approxinfinity Cole up and jam 'em tight!
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@approxinfinity one of my fav. Games
