Bill Self Just Played a McDAA
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kjayhawks said:
My ESPN box score isn’t show minutes, how many was Dotson in for? Grimes had a quiet double double and I thought Moore looked good. I’d expect Garrett’s minutes to dip just a tad if the other guards can improve defensively.
http://stats.wralsportsfan.com/cbk/boxscore.asp?gamecode=201811120287&home=287&vis=616&final=true
That one has minutes.
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This post is deleted!
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Also did Mitch play at all in the second half? Dont remember seeing him after the silly foul he had in the first. Hard to believe he couldn’t have been just as effective as Dedric. I love how KU sports ratings says Dedric was as off in this one as good in the first one lol. 18 shots and 20 point ain’t great. He did rebound well against MSU tho.
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This box score is pretty complete. https://kuathletics.com/sidearmstats/mbball/media
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@mayjay I saw that! I even took a screen shot and circled the 3pt stats. Not sure what happened for you but it is working on my end.
Also
Matt Galloway @themattgalloway 54s54 seconds ago
Self said “don’t read anything into” David McCormack not playing tonight, as Doke was playing well and wasn’t in foul trouble. #kubball
Sounds like it was because Doke played 34 minutes mainly.
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34 minutes is a lot for Dok. Tests his stamina, good reason to sit the other bigs that could have played.
2 fouls is not very many for Dok. Encouraging.
11 rebounds is a lot for Dok. Even more encouraging.
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Another tweet from a KU reporter on it
Benton Smith @BentonASmith 3m3 minutes ago
Self: Don’t read anything into McCormack not playing. Just with Udoka not in foul trouble and Vermont’s lineup, liked Garrett playing at the 4 more. #KUbball
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McCormack is the 4th big, he’s not getting big minutes on a regular basis anyway. It’s not concerning at all to me because this is Self’s track record with his 4th big
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@BShark I deleted my post when I realized I missed something. Or I would have deleted it but the site tells me I don’t have that privilege. So I deleted the content.
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@mayjay I thought you was calling names and got scared
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@kjayhawks The Internet scares me, but more in an existential way!
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I think just taking a glance at the box score speaks to the balance, versatility, and depth of this team. And this is one area where we have a clear advantage over Duke. If one of Duke’s big 3 has an off night, the game is close. If 2 of them have an off night, they may lose.
Our POY candidate goes 0-6 and doesn’t score and KU still wins by 16.
Our starting point guard ends up with 0 assists for the game, but our shooting guard has 10.
Our McD’s All-American doesn’t play with SDS out.
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@KirkIsMyHinrich Our mercurial senior wing goes 8 for flippin 8 from 3! LAAAAAAAGERALDDDDDDD!
NOICE!
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Vick is way better than the scouts gave him credit… but this extra year is a gift because he can use it to get his head into the game properly. Tonight he showed what he is capable of.
I don’t think we would have won this game had Vick not returned.
As for the big guys – my take is that Self wanted to send a message with Doke playing more than 30 min. This is my complete conjecture, but I think he was sending a message to some member(s) of the officiating team who may be in the circulation for refs in post season. They nailed Doke for traveling twice early, so they were watching him closely. Self gave them plenty of opportunities to see him do his thing. I think it was a ‘game within the game’ move.
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kjayhawks said:
As I said on the game thread I was somewhat shocked to not only see him not hit the floor but for KJ to get in at all. I really wish we had SDS with how well he played in the big 12 tournament last season he could be our second best big. I was hopeful Dedric just struggled with MSUs size and gerth but I’m not sold on him scoring against B12 bigs consistently. He will have to live at the line like he did against MSU from what I’ve seen. There also could be a chance David is nicked up too.
Sorry to say – time will tell , but I agree with you to at least to some degree will Dedric have trouble with Big 12 Big’s? - -I also think Maybe it’s just really getting back in the groove - -actual playing in game time environment -with him being out of action for a year due to transfer. - -Might take 4-5 games to actually get back into the flow of things. Could be as you say he may have to live at the line - - if that is the way it is , then so be it , make production whatever it takes - -if he has to live at the line , then so be it shoot your free throws and assist and rebound - then contribute however he can to help the team. - -I do think he will come around and he wil do better , just going to take a little time. – ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
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I don’t expect that Doke will play 30+ minutes in another game all year, so McCormack will have some time. When you have three guys play 30+ minutes like KU did last night, it’s hard to tap into the depth. I don’t think we will see many games like that this year, though.
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I like what Self did. The big lineup struggled against a team that could spread the floor. He (correctly) adjusted to a small lineup and we destroyed them from that point forward. Garrett has to get better offensively, but his ability to play the 4 is important.
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@BShark 1- Deference to their experience. 2- Wanted to see Doke play more minutes. 3- Played Mitch over Dave because he wanted to show what not to do when confronted with a head fake.
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@justanotherfan Vermont didn’t really attack him at all on offense because they knew they didn’t have the bodies to do so. This maybe the only game left where Doke isn’t in any type of foul trouble.
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@BShark Great topic. I had the same opinion – the minutes distribution last night was odd. Garrett did get way too many minutes. His “net” is not high end. And McCormack showed in the MSU game what we hoped to see – potential. Just need to keep giving him opportunities.
However, the “opinion” thing on my end is a bit superficial at this point. I don’t think I’ve got a good enough feel yet to be confident in my opinion, except on Garrett. I just cannot totally accept a guy that plays guard and is a complete brick layer. That is not a complete basketball player. This team, I don’t think, can absorb such offensive incompetence. Not when your AA candidate scores 0.
Try this – Garrett’s two game PER is 10.0. Garrett had a team worst 11.3 last season. PER isn’t perfect, and it doesn’t quantify defense real well. And other great players have had low PERS in their early seasons.
But the issue is his shot. No apparent hope for improvement. We are seeing perhaps the worst shot from a perimeter player ever on a KU team under Self. Ever.
He was supposedly working on it over the summer. It just looks horrible. Has he ever put up a soft shot from beyond eight feet?
Self likes him. He can play some good D. And his other numbers seem ok. There may not be another option, either. But it’s hard to watch. If I’m an opposing coach, I just don’t guard him much on the perimeter. Remember the havoc defenders caused when they just slacked off of Traylor?
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@HighEliteMajor Garrett works in certain situations.
- You’re up and you care more about the defensive end to close out (though I hope his .490 FT % from last year is improved. Too early to tell)
- They have someone on fire from the perimeter and you need length to guard that person (do you believe Garrett is our best perimeter defender?)
- Your other guys are all shooting well and Garrett is slashing (though he hasnt been effective enough as a slasher to warrant this role, and this team probably doesn’t have enough shooters to ever not need a shooter instead of Garrett)
But generally I agree. I get nervous when Bill is trying to weave in situational guys; come tournament time, that seems a formula for a loss. They can’t all be Cole Aldrich.
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Speaking of advance stats… Udoka’s offensive numbers look good in some areas, but forcing him the ball is not good offense. His offensive box plus/minus is -4.4. That’s real bad. His ORTG is 106 which again is very bad. These are a product of KU struggling offensively despite what the total points say at the end of the game. However like you alluded to, these stats don’t mean a ton through 2 games. They are especially wonky for Dave and Mitch, since they have barely played. Mitch’s advanced stats right now are hilariously good, but that would not be the case if he was getting 20 minutes a game. Dedric’s numbers are super bad. This should all even out, but fun to look at.
Garrett is looking more and more like another Bill Self pet player. I was hoping he would show some improvement. I still think he is a net positive on the floor, but it is painful to watch him shoot. I’m not sure he should play any position but the 4.
If we are to take Self at his word, we should see more of Dave going forward. I don’t think Udoka is going to log too many 34 minute games.
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Do I need to go into small sample properties for statistics? Because I might just for shits and giggles.
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The best use of Garrett is coming off the bench when the team needs a burst of energy on defense. He handled the ball well on offense against Vermont, but isn’t a threat to score. The team is much better with the ball in the hands of Dotson, then Moore, not Garrett. At least both of them are threats to score that the defense must respect. I can’t understand why Garrett had the ball so much on offense against Vermont. But, Garrett had 3 assists in 26 min. to Dotson’s 0 assists in 27 min.
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@FarmerJayhawk Based on a small sample size, Dedrick has become a liability and should be benched!
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What will happen to minutes if SDS becomes eligible? I guess it is good problem to have.
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Mac dnp could have been a team issue like he failed to turn in a paper and coach did not want to publicly humiliate him for it.
Why play Garrett when you could play KJ? Bigger stronger better shooter. His D is weak but Dok is back there protecting. Would much rather see KJ get those min.
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FarmerJayhawk said:
Do I need to go into small sample properties for statistics? Because I might just for shits and giggles.
I did say they don’t mean much through two games and just fun to look at.
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Look back at Garrett’s ft’s from last year and compare to this years. Might be my old eyes but I see a marked improvement. Makes me wonder why I am not seeing that on his 3. Plenty of stories out there on how he has worked on it over the summer. Perhaps he has managed to bring the new stroke over to game time at the line but reverts back on his 3 under stress.
What was he at the line 2-2?
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Garrett will play a ton because he plays defense the way Self expects guys to. Remember Self played Oubre less than 10 minutes for 4 straight games the year he was here. Once he picked it up defensively he played much more. Self does not care about high school accolades once you are on his team.
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Nor does he care about things like scoring the basketball. Evidence: Garrett, Jamari, Lucas.
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With Garrett, we don’t a have small sample size. We have last season and what we can see this season – one element that sticks out, horrible shooting. Low PER. But the low PER thing his freshman year is far less important than the apparent lack of improvement on his outside shot. We’ve had two exhibitions, and two regular season games. I’m not seeing misses as being concerning, I’m seeing how it looks as concerning. But not worth panic. @Kubie - He’s 4-4 (both games) at the line now this season. Kind of perfect.
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I think Self made it clear that Doke if he stays out of foul trouble he is going to play big minutes.
He didn’t against Michigan St and Dave played. Against Vermont Doke was out of foul trouble and Dave didn’t get in the game.
I think that signals a few things. Self wants to play through Doke as much as he can right now and Dave isn’t ready/ trusted in closer games where Doke isn’t in foul trouble. It’s only game two so it will be interesting to see if McCormack develops to the point where he’s getting in games consistently regardless of the situation
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McCormack got a few minutes against MSU. His time will come. Coach Self’s just making him hungry.
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So uh, Garrett…
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McCabe 2
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Fran shut up
