Whiff City
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@BShark So where does that leave us as far as a PG? Haven’t all the others been leaning elsewhere?
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Hawk8086 said:
@BShark So where does that leave us as far as a PG? Haven’t all the others been leaning elsewhere?
Hope that they can get back in with Ayo. Ship has probably sailed there and has definitely sailed with Carey, Locke etc…
Grimes isn’t a PG, but he would still be huge to land and serviceable. Moore, Garrett and Grimes is enough ball handling if it ends up that the other guard signing would be a developmental type. Maybe look at grad transfers. Names will pop up in terms of recruits and grad transfers, your guess is about as good as mine for what those names will be.
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A guy who’s not highly ranked (60ish) but is in Des Moines is Tyger Campbell. Personally, I’m surprised we didn’t swoop in and really make a push on him hard. I just checked 247 and he’s not signed and doesn’t look like a commitment is imminent. We are all in on Dotson (who live in NC?) I guess. That never made sense to me. I’d rather have the Campbell in the hand, than the Dotson in the bush. But … we win all the time, and Self makes those decisions. So perhaps this is just irrelevant chatter.
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@HighEliteMajor Wouldn’t be a bad idea. There were some MSU rumours but the MSU people have said MSU is no longer interested. Which does make sense because they will have 2 other PG on their roster.
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Campbell was committed to DePaul for a while. We recruited his teammates but not him. I also thought he was a 2019 kid. He’s good from the games I saw but he was a bit small for what Self likes. Maybe there is some interest at some point but it doesn’t seem like he’s trying to recruit himself towards KU either
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@BeddieKU23 @BShark Just checked … he reclassified to 2018. I first heard of him from a friend that saw him play in a tourney in Columbia or Hutch – some tourney close to KC (can’t remember which one). Said he was the best player on the floor.
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Another name will come up.
I’m not so sure that the Quickley thing is dead yet. Adidas guy. Adidas could be moving heaven and earth behind the scenes to get the Quickley/Zion show to come to Lawrence.
Every year, I think to myself, how has Bill Self never landed an elite PG? He has clearly developed them extremely well. Sherron Collins should have had a career trajectory just like Ty Lawsons, if you know, he didn’t get fat. Mario made it. Robinson played overseas for forever. DG and Frank were ranked 100ish and will be playing in the league. He made Tyshawn an All-American. Yet, he just can’t land an elite PG. It’s almost like he sold his soul or something and his punishment from the basketball Gods is Tyler and never landing a OAD PG.
And then I think, Adidas will hand him one when the timing is right. But, alas, another year passes and we will be without an elite PG recruit on the roster. While somehow UK can secure a PG commit while having 2 on the roster already. Neither of whom will be going pro after this season. Dumbfounds me. Recruiting is the least logical thing I have ever followed. Which makes it by far one of the most frustrating things in sports…
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@BeddieKU23 well how much smaller could this Campbell kid be then Jacobs? - -saying might be a bit small - -can’t be any smaller then 5’10/ – -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
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Smaller guards that played for Self (including the already committed Jacobs) have been extremely athletic. Not sure where Tyger is at athletically. Never looked into him much.
@Kcmatt7 Agree of course other names will come up it just really sucks with Dotson given the time KU sunk into this one (heavily on him early) and that none of the other “big boys” swooped in, it’s freaking Florida.
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@BShark I at least respect Dotson for that. He picked the team committed to him for the longest.
Other guys who KU was on and then drop them last minute for no real reason pisses me off.
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I hope Dotson will look at his college choice as a business decision. One program is way more likely than the other to be always be in the national spotlight, likely being ranked top 5 most of the year, conference champions, consideration for #1 seed, poised for a final 4 run, etc. And with all of that comes mega publicity. Being the quarterback of that team puts him front and center of that spotlight. When you are basically auditioning yourself to get a job at the next level, you should want to be on the big stage.
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Jerry Meyer said on twitter that the reason for all of the David McCormack CB picks in the last two days was “Intel getting out.” When asked if it was reliable intel he responded saying “Guess we will find out. Reliable to me but reliable enough to me to change my pick to Kansas. Wouldn’t say intel if thought unreliable.”
Good stuff.
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Campbell listed at 6’0".
@kcmatt - You’re right, both Mason and Graham started in the 100s. Mason ended up in the 70s (kind of nuts) and Graham in the 30s. And they got bumped probably because we signed them.
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Immanuel Quickley making his announcement tomorrow at 6:00pm. This has been viewed to be a heavy heavy heavy lean for UK for a loooong time. It will either be KU or UK. While small, I do think KU has a chance. He officially visited UK last weekend. Norm was in town to visit with him today. This is an Adidas kid, not sure if it matters in this case but never know. Its a big piece off the board, we shall find out soon.
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@RockkChalkk Well it at least will possibly put other pieces into play, I am pretty sure we all know he is UKbound - -no shocker there, more players seem to be committing early this year - -or maybe it’s just me. - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
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@Devon-Dotson
Welcome and we expect you to pack phone inside the uniforms and check in from inside the huddle during games, okay?
Rock Chalk!
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jayballer54 said:
@BeddieKU23 well how much smaller could this Campbell kid be then Jacobs? - -saying might be a bit small - -can’t be any smaller then 5’10/ – -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
With his hair it makes him much taller. Campbell is a twig though and unless he’s filled out his body or figured out how to jump higher he’s not in the mold of Mason or Jacobs that make up for being small with ridiculous athletic ability.
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HighEliteMajor said:
@BeddieKU23 @BShark Just checked … he reclassified to 2018. I first heard of him from a friend that saw him play in a tourney in Columbia or Hutch – some tourney close to KC (can’t remember which one). Said he was the best player on the floor.
He’s a very good floor leader. Definite starter at the College level. I’ve seen some of his HS games on TV and he’s a gamer. He just lacks some things Self usually goes after (mainly athletic ability). The difference between him and Dotson for example is noticeable to me. But we seem to have lost the Dotson sweepstakes and now sit yet again looking for another ball-handler.
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RockkChalkk said:
Immanuel Quickley making his announcement tomorrow at 6:00pm. This has been viewed to be a heavy heavy heavy lean for UK for a loooong time. It will either be KU or UK. While small, I do think KU has a chance. He officially visited UK last weekend. Norm was in town to visit with him today. This is an Adidas kid, not sure if it matters in this case but never know. Its a big piece off the board, we shall find out soon.
He’s announcing for Kentucky as fuel for Cal to use with Zion this weekend. This has been engineered in such a way to use as bait. I have no doubts KU pressed hard this week but we would have heard otherwise if he was going to KU.
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RockkChalkk said:
I hope Dotson will look at his college choice as a business decision. One program is way more likely than the other to be always be in the national spotlight, likely being ranked top 5 most of the year, conference champions, consideration for #1 seed, poised for a final 4 run, etc. And with all of that comes mega publicity. Being the quarterback of that team puts him front and center of that spotlight. When you are basically auditioning yourself to get a job at the next level, you should want to be on the big stage.
From everything I’ve read Dotson and his family have been a refreshing case of a family well aware of their decision and not letting outside influence dictate where he’s going. If that was the case Adidas would have locked him up in Vegas this summer with Zion.
The starting spot at Florida is available. Mike White has reshaped Florida to compete with Kentucky again in the SEC. He’ll be on TV in a conference that gets plenty of attention. Going to Florida is a business decision if you look at it as well.
I still think the presence of Charlie Moore hurt KU’s overall pitch. They probably didn’t believe he’d start from day 1 over him given Self’s history. If Moore wasn’t at KU elite PG’s would have signed here
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@BeddieKU23 So you really think Charlie Moore cost us an elite point guard? I’m not holding a high opinion of Moore at the moment – more of a middling/average opinion. So that just kind of makes me sick.
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BeddieKU23 said:
jayballer54 said:
@BeddieKU23 well how much smaller could this Campbell kid be then Jacobs? - -saying might be a bit small - -can’t be any smaller then 5’10/ – -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
With his hair it makes him much taller. Campbell is a twig though and unless he’s filled out his body or figured out how to jump higher he’s not in the mold of Mason or Jacobs that make up for being small with ridiculous athletic ability.
Even Sherron was pretty athletic before he got fat.
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@HighEliteMajor Where were you using for rankings? I remember Mason was around #50 on 247 which was the highest anywhere but his composite rating was still super low, under 100 and I don’t recall Graham being near top 30 anywhere. He was 100-ish in 247 ranking and their composite. Vick oddly enough I do remember had some high rankings.
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HighEliteMajor said:
@BeddieKU23 So you really think Charlie Moore cost us an elite point guard? I’m not holding a high opinion of Moore at the moment – more of a middling/average opinion. So that just kind of makes me sick.
Completely agree. We need Moore to text his buddy Ayo now.
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Btw as for Quickley the kid is dyed in the wool Kentucky truuuuuuuuuue blue. You guys know how much Jacobs loves KU, well Quickley loves UK that much. He just hadn’t committed already because Cal has been using him as a recruiting tool which looks better if he isn’t officially committed.
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HighEliteMajor said:
@BeddieKU23 So you really think Charlie Moore cost us an elite point guard? I’m not holding a high opinion of Moore at the moment – more of a middling/average opinion. So that just kind of makes me sick.
Yes I do, I remember, faintly, stating such after we landed Moore out of the blue. Maybe I’ll look to find it. Maybe I’m reaching for straws with that statement but if Charlie Moore wasn’t on the roster wouldn’t KU have unlimited playing time to sell at both a starting PG spot and a backup position to the Elites?
All things being equal between Florida & KU in his recruitment, Florida has a graduating PG with just one other PG on the roster, an incoming freshman ranked #256th. KU has a graduating PG and a transfer, Moore was a Top 100 kid in 2016 who started as a freshman at Cal. It’s not out of the realm to think the Dotson’s think he’s in line to start at KU next year which limits his potential as a freshman. The Dotson’s have made it clear they want the ball, not to be the side-show to another.
Further after the 2016 recruiting cycle misses on Trae Young & Sexton for similar circumstances, both felt returning players (Graham, Newman) stood in their way. They both found situations they were guaranteed to start without a upperclassmen in the way. It seems Devon will seek the same situation.
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BeddieKU23 said:
RockkChalkk said:
I hope Dotson will look at his college choice as a business decision. One program is way more likely than the other to be always be in the national spotlight, likely being ranked top 5 most of the year, conference champions, consideration for #1 seed, poised for a final 4 run, etc. And with all of that comes mega publicity. Being the quarterback of that team puts him front and center of that spotlight. When you are basically auditioning yourself to get a job at the next level, you should want to be on the big stage.
From everything I’ve read Dotson and his family have been a refreshing case of a family well aware of their decision and not letting outside influence dictate where he’s going. If that was the case Adidas would have locked him up in Vegas this summer with Zion.
The starting spot at Florida is available. Mike White has reshaped Florida to compete with Kentucky again in the SEC. He’ll be on TV in a conference that gets plenty of attention. Going to Florida is a business decision if you look at it as well.
I still think the presence of Charlie Moore hurt KU’s overall pitch. They probably didn’t believe he’d start from day 1 over him given Self’s history. If Moore wasn’t at KU elite PG’s would have signed here
See and this is where I have a problem with that whole approach , and attitude from player - I just don’t get it. -You say That the Dotson family or Devon probably didn’t think he would start here at KU from day 1. My feeling on this IF you as a player , a future recruit if you got that fire in your stomach , that competiveness , the desire - -if you are suppose to be one of the elite pg in the nation , why would you shy away from competition and proving YOUR the one who deserves to start & be that guy that should have the ball in your hands from day 1? - -Any supposed elite PG or ANY player shouldn’t be or would I want them to be a guy that would shy away from competition. - If your as good as you think you are , if your as good and feel you should come in and start from day 1, then back your game up - just don’t talk the game - - -do the game.
If it was me as a recruit , I wouldn’t give a dam who was there, if I felt like I should be able to come right in and have the ball , then no matter who was there my whole approach would be let’s do this - -let me show you, what these guys afraid their inflated ego’s take a hit? - -maybe find out they quite as good as what they thought? They find out they might have to actually prove they belong? - To me if a kid runs because of another player at that position and afraid to work and prove he deserves if that is what the Coach wants to see - -Then I guess it’s better he does go somewhere else. - -I want a kid who has that fire and competiveness who is willing to work - not a kid who just want his spot given to him - -a kid who wants someone to stroke his ego - -we don’t need that type of kid. I want a kid with the attitude towards the others like HEY don’t hate the player - -hate the game. -I will never understand a highly rated player that’s afraid of a challenge - -nothing is just given to you in life - a real person reaches out and takes what they want. - -It’s that time for someone to get in Devon’s ear and say " Don’t get Scared now " Act like you got a pair, stand up and prove you belong.
Hell if you want to be real - - the starting spot will be available here too next season. I don’t feel is just going to automatically tell Charlie Moore that you have the spot given next year. Again someone going to have to step up and earn that spot. - Why not Devon? Charlie Moore is not that good where he just automatically has that spot locked up , so Devon come in and compete for the spot , show people you are as good as you think you are. - -As far as being on TV not even close. KU on National TV far more then you will be at Florida - ALOT more National exposure .Ya sure Devon might be on the SEC Channel sometimes - -but National almost weekly such as ESPN - -ESPN 2 - - ESPNU - - CBS ya pretty much weekly I one spot or another here, not even close. - -As far as conference - the better conference, - -who in the SEC other then Kentucky is better? - Tradition? - -KU hands down. - -Coach? - -KU hands down. - -Basketball atmosphere ? - -KU hands down. - -I’ll never understand why a kid shies away from competition if that’s the reason. - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
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@HighEliteMajor pretty much what I posted in my reply to the statement. - -Charlie Moore in no way if I were a recruit would scare me away if I wanted to come. - -I’d come in and compete - If I were as good as I thought I would have no problem battling Charlie Moore for the spot. - -why should he scare ANY elite pg guards off? - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
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Charlie Moore has to be a factor in this. Dotson sort of “blew up” this summer comparably to what recruiting scouts thought of him coming into the summer. He was hovering in that Top 50 range, now he’s top 25ish.
He knows he’s good, people have noticed and he’s going to go somewhere where he can start from day 1. It’s not just coming in as a freshman and having the spot to yourself, its the what if after as well, if Dotson isn’t NBA ready after his freshman year he wants the spot as a Soph etc. That way if Florida recruits other PG’s he knows he has the upper hand against them. At KU there is no telling if Moore could improve to the point where Self plays him over Dotson or pushes Dotson for playing time. What if Grimes signs as expected. I’m sure the Dotson family is aware Grimes is likely ending up at KU where he takes the SG spot or secondary ball-handling position. I had thought there was room for everyone but its clear, at least to me, Charlie Moore is part of the reason Florida has been able to gain the upper hand.
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Some sources of Florida now saying it will be Maryland… Under Armour and his friend/Maryland Commit Wiggins playing a part… Interesting
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Grimes is probably wanting to see how Newman works out at KU. Grimes and Newman are actually fairly similar players. Both are too small to play the 2 in the NBA, but both have NBA level skills - they just have to start sliding over to the point.
So Grimes is probably watching to see how Self utilizes Newman this year. Grimes is an excellent passer - good vision, good feel. He’s not necessarily a “natural PG” in the Chris Paul mode, but he’s a PG in the John Wall-Russell Westbrook category - scorer that can handle and get other people involved.
Newman is really the first player like that to play under Self since his Illinois days. I think Grimes wants to find out if Newman capitalizes on his talent at KU. If he does, there’s no reason for Grimes not to come on down. If that happens, I don’t think we will even remember that we didn’t land Dotson.
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@BeddieKU23 hmmmm, well if his visit went over that well - -not saying it didn’t , finding it kind of strange that now a week later, we haven’t really seen any CB movement to Florida. Even after a week, I would of thought you would of seen a pretty big shift by now - -only a couple. - Article said he is weighing is options, which means to me he is still not solidly sold on Florida. Still an open ball game I think - -far from over If he is that committed to Florida now - -why not just come out and announce. We are STILL in this thing bottom line. - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG
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@BeddieKU23 Wow what a whacky world recruiting is , these kids I tell ya. - -I still say we are in it. - - I don’t see Maryland hell my dam head is spinning to fast for this old man lol. - - - that would be kind of like an Ayton thing, coming out of no where, Never heard anything serious about Maryland - -I don’t see it. - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
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David McCormack is announcing Sunday. Gotta say I like the timing…
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@justanotherfan Your writing off the Dotson scenario to soon. - -If you read BeddieKu23 - last post you now see where some are saying NOW it could be Maryland. - -Kid is not sold yet , big reason why he is weighing his options still. - -KU is still in this thick , take it to the bank, what’s the ol adage - - it’s not over til the fat lady sings? - -well she hasn’t even started to stretch her vocal cords yet. – ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BAB
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BShark said:
David McCormack is announcing Sunday. Gotta say I like the timing… AWSOMENESS. - -that sounds good. - where did you read that? - - Unless he cancelled his late night visit got to be good. - Looking at the scenario , made his un-official here, plus unless he cancelled his visit for late night here - the things he had to say about Ku after his visit - -the recent CB movement -and it is like two weeks yet before he was scheduled to visit Okla State , and he is announcing Sunday?
I know never count your chicklets before they hatch - - -BUT you would have to think. - - - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
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@BShark Here is the rivals link I found on Graham … 36. He was of course originally 2013 class, and was not in the top 100 from what I have seen.
https://n.rivals.com/content/prospects/2014/devonte-graham-9850
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BShark said:
David McCormack is announcing Sunday. Gotta say I like the timing…
BOOM
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I’m feelin’ the McCormack thing.
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This is another homerun hit for the staff. Thanks to Billy Preston as well.
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This is some craziness. So @BeddieKU23 thinks Moore is keeping some of the Guard recruits from committing. Sadly I think it could be right. However, come on man, if you are Dotson or Grimes how can you be scared of competing against a vertically challenged guy that was barely in the top 100? I’m not trying to knock Moore, its just fact. If these recruits really fancy themselves as NBA caliber players, they are going to have to compete against others much better than Moore to make it. If they decide to take Easy Street and not challenge themselves along the way I’m thinking there will be a rude awakening one day.
So if the hypothesis is true, how come it doesn’t seem to apply to the big men? De Souza has committed, Big Dave seems to be ready to do the same, it didn’t seem to bother them. There is much more room at the guard spot, meaning less returning players and Self has shown he will mostly play three guards and even 4 at a time if his personnel dictates it. It seems like an illogical conclusion to reach but nobody ever said logic would decide where these kids choose to go.
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Like the use of Easy Street, isn’t that the same philosphy Sexton and Young took in the 2016 class. Instead of competing with Graham and Newman they took the path to the least resistance. Self pressed hard on both to come to KU. He’s done the same to Dotson/Grimes this season. Not illogical to think both take the illogical path again. Marquette is recruiting Grimes with their entire staff, Texas wants Grimes in state, Calipari is selling the NBA dream. We just have no idea how these kids think, what motivates them, how afraid they are of competition.
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@BeddieKU23 McCormick and De-Sousa makes a very sweet pair. - - ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
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I don’t know how credible the Florida people claiming all this Dotson movement. Seems illogical and there’s a whole bunch of other news he/she claims to know about all their other targets going to other schools. Seems very unlikely their top target at PG, SF, PF all said No to Florida on the same day…I’m not buying it but their fanbase is running with some stuff
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@RockkChalkk There is a huge difference between wanting to compete on court against the best, from wanting to compete for playing time against kids who might not be as talented on court but are willing to work harder and do even more than the coaches ask.
Not saying this is what is happening, only that it can explain why someone could shy away from trying to beat Moore if he is in the Mason mold (remember FM’s training video?).
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HighEliteMajor said:
@BShark Here is the rivals link I found on Graham … 36. He was of course originally 2013 class, and was not in the top 100 from what I have seen.
https://n.rivals.com/content/prospects/2014/devonte-graham-9850
Thanks. It’s crazy sometimes the discrepancy between the sites.
I already mentioned 247 and composite but ESPN, Graham was unranked but 4 stars. Supposedly 41 on Scout but I don’t remember him being that high on Scout…wonder if they changed it well after the fact.
But it doesn’t really matter, Graham is a great Jayhawk, that’s what matters.
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BeddieKU23 said:
This is another homerun hit for the staff. Thanks to Billy Preston as well.
Now we want things to go well. Adding Oak Hill to the good ins list along with Mac Irvin Fire, Brewster and IMG would be
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@BeddieKU23 - - All I have to say is , sit back and watch. - -This is far from a done deal to Florida. – I’m not so fast to accept defeat , Again after a week from being removed from his visit to Florida, if he was at the juncture where welp everyone up and saying Florida got him locked up - - – - -it’s over , - - maybe it is - -maybe it isn’t. Again one of my questions would be is why aren’t we seeing a lot more CB movement to Florida - just like McCormack did with us when we became the heavy lean? - - We saw a lot of CB movement to us. - - It’s been a week since his visit to Florida and yet we aren’t seeing very much movement or changing of the CB at all - why not? - if he suddenly became so solid for Florida - -why no movement. The big Florida insider was so sure but yet we have seen nothing or much , why not? - Why if he was rock solid on Florida after his visit why like it was stated in the article , why is he weighing his options? - - If it was a done deal to Florida like some are trying to say - - no options to weigh - -he set on Florida then just announce like Quickley - De-Sousa , and others.
Again let’s just see - I’m tellin ya we are still right there for Devon. - - ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
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RockkChalkk said:
So if the hypothesis is true, how come it doesn’t seem to apply to the big men? De Souza has committed, Big Dave seems to be ready to do the same, it didn’t seem to bother them. There is much more room at the guard spot, meaning less returning players and Self has shown he will mostly play three guards and even 4 at a time if his personnel dictates it. It seems like an illogical conclusion to reach but nobody ever said logic would decide where these kids choose to go.
If you assume Bill is telling recruits that Preston and Doke are gone after this year, it does make some sense. Assuming the info is good and McCormack picks KU one of De Sousa and McCormack will be a back-up though, because Dedric is starting barring injury. Of course being the third big on a Self team still means solid minutes if he trusts you.
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@BShark \just as a little more to go along about these recruiting sites and the differences , some of the players KU is in the recruit’s top 5 picks in the class of 2019 these sites are big time difference on some.
Take for example Rivals has Markese as the # 88 player in the Nation - - -247 has him as the # 74 player in the Nation. - - -Marcedus Leech -Rivals has him as the # 84 player in the Nation. - - -247 has him as the # 57 ranked player in the Nation. -on the other side - -Malik Hall – rivals has him as the # 55 ranked player in the Nation - - 247 has him as the # 92 ranked player in the /nation - -and then one other one Grant Sherfield – -Rivals has him as the # 54 ranked player in the Nation - - 247 has him as the # 90 ranked player in the Nation.
I don’t understand what some of these services are seeing or not seeing in the same players, how do they get such a huge difference - -crazy. – -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
