Whiff City
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@BeddieKU23 So you really think Charlie Moore cost us an elite point guard? I’m not holding a high opinion of Moore at the moment – more of a middling/average opinion. So that just kind of makes me sick.
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BeddieKU23 said:
jayballer54 said:
@BeddieKU23 well how much smaller could this Campbell kid be then Jacobs? - -saying might be a bit small - -can’t be any smaller then 5’10/ – -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
With his hair it makes him much taller. Campbell is a twig though and unless he’s filled out his body or figured out how to jump higher he’s not in the mold of Mason or Jacobs that make up for being small with ridiculous athletic ability.
Even Sherron was pretty athletic before he got fat.
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@HighEliteMajor Where were you using for rankings? I remember Mason was around #50 on 247 which was the highest anywhere but his composite rating was still super low, under 100 and I don’t recall Graham being near top 30 anywhere. He was 100-ish in 247 ranking and their composite. Vick oddly enough I do remember had some high rankings.
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HighEliteMajor said:
@BeddieKU23 So you really think Charlie Moore cost us an elite point guard? I’m not holding a high opinion of Moore at the moment – more of a middling/average opinion. So that just kind of makes me sick.
Completely agree. We need Moore to text his buddy Ayo now.
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Btw as for Quickley the kid is dyed in the wool Kentucky truuuuuuuuuue blue. You guys know how much Jacobs loves KU, well Quickley loves UK that much. He just hadn’t committed already because Cal has been using him as a recruiting tool which looks better if he isn’t officially committed.
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HighEliteMajor said:
@BeddieKU23 So you really think Charlie Moore cost us an elite point guard? I’m not holding a high opinion of Moore at the moment – more of a middling/average opinion. So that just kind of makes me sick.
Yes I do, I remember, faintly, stating such after we landed Moore out of the blue. Maybe I’ll look to find it. Maybe I’m reaching for straws with that statement but if Charlie Moore wasn’t on the roster wouldn’t KU have unlimited playing time to sell at both a starting PG spot and a backup position to the Elites?
All things being equal between Florida & KU in his recruitment, Florida has a graduating PG with just one other PG on the roster, an incoming freshman ranked #256th. KU has a graduating PG and a transfer, Moore was a Top 100 kid in 2016 who started as a freshman at Cal. It’s not out of the realm to think the Dotson’s think he’s in line to start at KU next year which limits his potential as a freshman. The Dotson’s have made it clear they want the ball, not to be the side-show to another.
Further after the 2016 recruiting cycle misses on Trae Young & Sexton for similar circumstances, both felt returning players (Graham, Newman) stood in their way. They both found situations they were guaranteed to start without a upperclassmen in the way. It seems Devon will seek the same situation.
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BeddieKU23 said:
RockkChalkk said:
I hope Dotson will look at his college choice as a business decision. One program is way more likely than the other to be always be in the national spotlight, likely being ranked top 5 most of the year, conference champions, consideration for #1 seed, poised for a final 4 run, etc. And with all of that comes mega publicity. Being the quarterback of that team puts him front and center of that spotlight. When you are basically auditioning yourself to get a job at the next level, you should want to be on the big stage.
From everything I’ve read Dotson and his family have been a refreshing case of a family well aware of their decision and not letting outside influence dictate where he’s going. If that was the case Adidas would have locked him up in Vegas this summer with Zion.
The starting spot at Florida is available. Mike White has reshaped Florida to compete with Kentucky again in the SEC. He’ll be on TV in a conference that gets plenty of attention. Going to Florida is a business decision if you look at it as well.
I still think the presence of Charlie Moore hurt KU’s overall pitch. They probably didn’t believe he’d start from day 1 over him given Self’s history. If Moore wasn’t at KU elite PG’s would have signed here
See and this is where I have a problem with that whole approach , and attitude from player - I just don’t get it. -You say That the Dotson family or Devon probably didn’t think he would start here at KU from day 1. My feeling on this IF you as a player , a future recruit if you got that fire in your stomach , that competiveness , the desire - -if you are suppose to be one of the elite pg in the nation , why would you shy away from competition and proving YOUR the one who deserves to start & be that guy that should have the ball in your hands from day 1? - -Any supposed elite PG or ANY player shouldn’t be or would I want them to be a guy that would shy away from competition. - If your as good as you think you are , if your as good and feel you should come in and start from day 1, then back your game up - just don’t talk the game - - -do the game.
If it was me as a recruit , I wouldn’t give a dam who was there, if I felt like I should be able to come right in and have the ball , then no matter who was there my whole approach would be let’s do this - -let me show you, what these guys afraid their inflated ego’s take a hit? - -maybe find out they quite as good as what they thought? They find out they might have to actually prove they belong? - To me if a kid runs because of another player at that position and afraid to work and prove he deserves if that is what the Coach wants to see - -Then I guess it’s better he does go somewhere else. - -I want a kid who has that fire and competiveness who is willing to work - not a kid who just want his spot given to him - -a kid who wants someone to stroke his ego - -we don’t need that type of kid. I want a kid with the attitude towards the others like HEY don’t hate the player - -hate the game. -I will never understand a highly rated player that’s afraid of a challenge - -nothing is just given to you in life - a real person reaches out and takes what they want. - -It’s that time for someone to get in Devon’s ear and say " Don’t get Scared now " Act like you got a pair, stand up and prove you belong.
Hell if you want to be real - - the starting spot will be available here too next season. I don’t feel is just going to automatically tell Charlie Moore that you have the spot given next year. Again someone going to have to step up and earn that spot. - Why not Devon? Charlie Moore is not that good where he just automatically has that spot locked up , so Devon come in and compete for the spot , show people you are as good as you think you are. - -As far as being on TV not even close. KU on National TV far more then you will be at Florida - ALOT more National exposure .Ya sure Devon might be on the SEC Channel sometimes - -but National almost weekly such as ESPN - -ESPN 2 - - ESPNU - - CBS ya pretty much weekly I one spot or another here, not even close. - -As far as conference - the better conference, - -who in the SEC other then Kentucky is better? - Tradition? - -KU hands down. - -Coach? - -KU hands down. - -Basketball atmosphere ? - -KU hands down. - -I’ll never understand why a kid shies away from competition if that’s the reason. - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
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@HighEliteMajor pretty much what I posted in my reply to the statement. - -Charlie Moore in no way if I were a recruit would scare me away if I wanted to come. - -I’d come in and compete - If I were as good as I thought I would have no problem battling Charlie Moore for the spot. - -why should he scare ANY elite pg guards off? - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
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Charlie Moore has to be a factor in this. Dotson sort of “blew up” this summer comparably to what recruiting scouts thought of him coming into the summer. He was hovering in that Top 50 range, now he’s top 25ish.
He knows he’s good, people have noticed and he’s going to go somewhere where he can start from day 1. It’s not just coming in as a freshman and having the spot to yourself, its the what if after as well, if Dotson isn’t NBA ready after his freshman year he wants the spot as a Soph etc. That way if Florida recruits other PG’s he knows he has the upper hand against them. At KU there is no telling if Moore could improve to the point where Self plays him over Dotson or pushes Dotson for playing time. What if Grimes signs as expected. I’m sure the Dotson family is aware Grimes is likely ending up at KU where he takes the SG spot or secondary ball-handling position. I had thought there was room for everyone but its clear, at least to me, Charlie Moore is part of the reason Florida has been able to gain the upper hand.
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Some sources of Florida now saying it will be Maryland… Under Armour and his friend/Maryland Commit Wiggins playing a part… Interesting
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Grimes is probably wanting to see how Newman works out at KU. Grimes and Newman are actually fairly similar players. Both are too small to play the 2 in the NBA, but both have NBA level skills - they just have to start sliding over to the point.
So Grimes is probably watching to see how Self utilizes Newman this year. Grimes is an excellent passer - good vision, good feel. He’s not necessarily a “natural PG” in the Chris Paul mode, but he’s a PG in the John Wall-Russell Westbrook category - scorer that can handle and get other people involved.
Newman is really the first player like that to play under Self since his Illinois days. I think Grimes wants to find out if Newman capitalizes on his talent at KU. If he does, there’s no reason for Grimes not to come on down. If that happens, I don’t think we will even remember that we didn’t land Dotson.
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@BeddieKU23 hmmmm, well if his visit went over that well - -not saying it didn’t , finding it kind of strange that now a week later, we haven’t really seen any CB movement to Florida. Even after a week, I would of thought you would of seen a pretty big shift by now - -only a couple. - Article said he is weighing is options, which means to me he is still not solidly sold on Florida. Still an open ball game I think - -far from over If he is that committed to Florida now - -why not just come out and announce. We are STILL in this thing bottom line. - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG
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@BeddieKU23 Wow what a whacky world recruiting is , these kids I tell ya. - -I still say we are in it. - - I don’t see Maryland hell my dam head is spinning to fast for this old man lol. - - - that would be kind of like an Ayton thing, coming out of no where, Never heard anything serious about Maryland - -I don’t see it. - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
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David McCormack is announcing Sunday. Gotta say I like the timing…
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@justanotherfan Your writing off the Dotson scenario to soon. - -If you read BeddieKu23 - last post you now see where some are saying NOW it could be Maryland. - -Kid is not sold yet , big reason why he is weighing his options still. - -KU is still in this thick , take it to the bank, what’s the ol adage - - it’s not over til the fat lady sings? - -well she hasn’t even started to stretch her vocal cords yet. – ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BAB
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BShark said:
David McCormack is announcing Sunday. Gotta say I like the timing… AWSOMENESS. - -that sounds good. - where did you read that? - - Unless he cancelled his late night visit got to be good. - Looking at the scenario , made his un-official here, plus unless he cancelled his visit for late night here - the things he had to say about Ku after his visit - -the recent CB movement -and it is like two weeks yet before he was scheduled to visit Okla State , and he is announcing Sunday?
I know never count your chicklets before they hatch - - -BUT you would have to think. - - - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
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@BShark Here is the rivals link I found on Graham … 36. He was of course originally 2013 class, and was not in the top 100 from what I have seen.
https://n.rivals.com/content/prospects/2014/devonte-graham-9850
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BShark said:
David McCormack is announcing Sunday. Gotta say I like the timing…
BOOM
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I’m feelin’ the McCormack thing.
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This is another homerun hit for the staff. Thanks to Billy Preston as well.
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This is some craziness. So @BeddieKU23 thinks Moore is keeping some of the Guard recruits from committing. Sadly I think it could be right. However, come on man, if you are Dotson or Grimes how can you be scared of competing against a vertically challenged guy that was barely in the top 100? I’m not trying to knock Moore, its just fact. If these recruits really fancy themselves as NBA caliber players, they are going to have to compete against others much better than Moore to make it. If they decide to take Easy Street and not challenge themselves along the way I’m thinking there will be a rude awakening one day.
So if the hypothesis is true, how come it doesn’t seem to apply to the big men? De Souza has committed, Big Dave seems to be ready to do the same, it didn’t seem to bother them. There is much more room at the guard spot, meaning less returning players and Self has shown he will mostly play three guards and even 4 at a time if his personnel dictates it. It seems like an illogical conclusion to reach but nobody ever said logic would decide where these kids choose to go.
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Like the use of Easy Street, isn’t that the same philosphy Sexton and Young took in the 2016 class. Instead of competing with Graham and Newman they took the path to the least resistance. Self pressed hard on both to come to KU. He’s done the same to Dotson/Grimes this season. Not illogical to think both take the illogical path again. Marquette is recruiting Grimes with their entire staff, Texas wants Grimes in state, Calipari is selling the NBA dream. We just have no idea how these kids think, what motivates them, how afraid they are of competition.
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@BeddieKU23 McCormick and De-Sousa makes a very sweet pair. - - ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
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I don’t know how credible the Florida people claiming all this Dotson movement. Seems illogical and there’s a whole bunch of other news he/she claims to know about all their other targets going to other schools. Seems very unlikely their top target at PG, SF, PF all said No to Florida on the same day…I’m not buying it but their fanbase is running with some stuff
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@RockkChalkk There is a huge difference between wanting to compete on court against the best, from wanting to compete for playing time against kids who might not be as talented on court but are willing to work harder and do even more than the coaches ask.
Not saying this is what is happening, only that it can explain why someone could shy away from trying to beat Moore if he is in the Mason mold (remember FM’s training video?).
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HighEliteMajor said:
@BShark Here is the rivals link I found on Graham … 36. He was of course originally 2013 class, and was not in the top 100 from what I have seen.
https://n.rivals.com/content/prospects/2014/devonte-graham-9850
Thanks. It’s crazy sometimes the discrepancy between the sites.
I already mentioned 247 and composite but ESPN, Graham was unranked but 4 stars. Supposedly 41 on Scout but I don’t remember him being that high on Scout…wonder if they changed it well after the fact.
But it doesn’t really matter, Graham is a great Jayhawk, that’s what matters.
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BeddieKU23 said:
This is another homerun hit for the staff. Thanks to Billy Preston as well.
Now we want things to go well. Adding Oak Hill to the good ins list along with Mac Irvin Fire, Brewster and IMG would be
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@BeddieKU23 - - All I have to say is , sit back and watch. - -This is far from a done deal to Florida. – I’m not so fast to accept defeat , Again after a week from being removed from his visit to Florida, if he was at the juncture where welp everyone up and saying Florida got him locked up - - – - -it’s over , - - maybe it is - -maybe it isn’t. Again one of my questions would be is why aren’t we seeing a lot more CB movement to Florida - just like McCormack did with us when we became the heavy lean? - - We saw a lot of CB movement to us. - - It’s been a week since his visit to Florida and yet we aren’t seeing very much movement or changing of the CB at all - why not? - if he suddenly became so solid for Florida - -why no movement. The big Florida insider was so sure but yet we have seen nothing or much , why not? - Why if he was rock solid on Florida after his visit why like it was stated in the article , why is he weighing his options? - - If it was a done deal to Florida like some are trying to say - - no options to weigh - -he set on Florida then just announce like Quickley - De-Sousa , and others.
Again let’s just see - I’m tellin ya we are still right there for Devon. - - ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
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RockkChalkk said:
So if the hypothesis is true, how come it doesn’t seem to apply to the big men? De Souza has committed, Big Dave seems to be ready to do the same, it didn’t seem to bother them. There is much more room at the guard spot, meaning less returning players and Self has shown he will mostly play three guards and even 4 at a time if his personnel dictates it. It seems like an illogical conclusion to reach but nobody ever said logic would decide where these kids choose to go.
If you assume Bill is telling recruits that Preston and Doke are gone after this year, it does make some sense. Assuming the info is good and McCormack picks KU one of De Sousa and McCormack will be a back-up though, because Dedric is starting barring injury. Of course being the third big on a Self team still means solid minutes if he trusts you.
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@BShark \just as a little more to go along about these recruiting sites and the differences , some of the players KU is in the recruit’s top 5 picks in the class of 2019 these sites are big time difference on some.
Take for example Rivals has Markese as the # 88 player in the Nation - - -247 has him as the # 74 player in the Nation. - - -Marcedus Leech -Rivals has him as the # 84 player in the Nation. - - -247 has him as the # 57 ranked player in the Nation. -on the other side - -Malik Hall – rivals has him as the # 55 ranked player in the Nation - - 247 has him as the # 92 ranked player in the /nation - -and then one other one Grant Sherfield – -Rivals has him as the # 54 ranked player in the Nation - - 247 has him as the # 90 ranked player in the Nation.
I don’t understand what some of these services are seeing or not seeing in the same players, how do they get such a huge difference - -crazy. – -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
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Leech will go to UK if offered fwiw.
19 is going to be an interesting class. I really really like Malik Hall’s game but is there room for him with JRE and Chandler Lawson being likely takes? So much talent with legit, strong KU ties in the class. Gotta close em.
Keeping my eye on Samuell Williamson who I mentioned awhile back. KU legacy recruit. KU had been by far his best offer but others have taken notice of his big summer. Now a top 150 recruit and picked up offers from OU, TAMU, LSU and Marquette.
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The one that has claimed Dotson to Florida isn’t chiming in on what appears to be a Florida fan gone mad. He did say if he didn’t commit in the next week that could open the door for someone else. It’s clear the Dotson’s are taking more time then anyone has expected. Recruiting circles said he would be done just after August. He went on vacation came back and took visits. The hurricane further pushed it out. The Florida visit, now a possible Maryland visit if they decide to do that next week. Who knows. I have no more speculating to make on this one
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BeddieKU23 said:
The one that has claimed Dotson to Florida isn’t chiming in on what appears to be a Florida fan gone mad. He did say if he didn’t commit in the next week that could open the door for someone else. It’s clear the Dotson’s are taking more time then anyone has expected. Recruiting circles said he would be done just after August. He went on vacation came back and took visits. The hurricane further pushed it out. The Florida visit, now a possible Maryland visit if they decide to do that next week. Who knows. I have no more speculating to make on this one
Yeah, Dotson situation is crazy.
This is from some random poster on the phog…
“Dotson situation remains wide open. He will likely visit Maryland. He didnt have a great official visit at KU.”
Same poster said his family is pushing him to Florida.
I have now read from multiple places that Dotson’s visit to KU sucked. None are super credible and it could be parroting but it was on all different sites by different user names. Could be complete bs who really knows? We will likely never know exactly why if true.
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More Dotson stuff from another Phog poster BigCKU…
His family is pushing him to stay on the East coast and Florida is getting the most run from them. Haven’t heard anything about coaches. He personally likes KU a little more than Florida and had his family signed off on KU he probably would have committed months ago. I can’t speak on how his visit with from his side but from KU side it didn’t go any different than 99% of recruits visits.
One thing I was told with the Dotson recruitment is obviously Self wasn’t able to win over the family like he does in most recruitments. Charming the family is one of Self’s best attributes on the recruiting trail but every now and then Self just is unable to do it. Dotson is one of those recruitments.
Those are from my KU sources. One is someone who works at the school and worked on the weekends for me in Topeka this past summer. The other is a family member who is close to the program and more specifically close to several of the KU boosters. Obviously not going to divulge names so don’t try.
The Florida and Maryland guys have been saying that Florida has got in very strongly with the family over the other schools. The Mom wants him close to home. The father wants close to home and wants his son to start immediately.
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If in fact they want him home then why the heck did he give serious interest to KU in the first place. They knew how far KU is from North Carolina. Infuriating
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BShark said:
Leech will go to UK if offered fwiw.
19 is going to be an interesting class. I really really like Malik Hall’s game but is there room for him with JRE and Chandler Lawson being likely takes? So much talent with legit, strong KU ties in the class. Gotta close em.
Keeping my eye on Samuell Williamson who I mentioned awhile back. KU legacy recruit. KU had been by far his best offer but others have taken notice of his big summer. Now a top 150 recruit and picked up offers from OU, TAMU, LSU and Marquette.
Hmmm, really haven’t heard anything on Williamson. Looked and he is not on either Rivals - -or 247 top 100 recruits for 2019. While I was killing time , I decided to go to the different sites and check these guys out for 2019. - Went through the list of both Rivals and 247 top 100
So with having said that as far as the 2019 recruits go Ku is listed as one of the top 5 schools on 21 out of the 100 top 100 recruits, each one of these 21 list KU as one of their top 5 schools we are on the following: # 3 , 4 , 5, 6, 7, 10 , 11 , 16 , 17 , 18 , 23 , 27 , 28 , 32 , 34 ,38 , 54 ,55 ,74 ,84, and the our commit # 88 Markese.
KU leads on 7 of these kids at the present, they are as follows Hurt ( we know that’s no longer the case ) - - -Robinson Earl - - -Zach Harvey- - - -Chandler Lawson - - -Grant Sherfield - - - Malik Hall - - - & Marcedus Leech. - - Then we are in a deadlock for # 32 Josh Green 50/50 with UCLA. - -As far as Marcedus Leech goes, you saying Kentucky. - -He is not even listing Kentucky as one of his top 5 Schools. - His Five are KU - - -Iowa State - - -LSU- - - -Miami - - & Missouri. - - ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
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Leech called UK his dream school. That being said he visited and Cal did NOT offer, so if UK never offers, KU has a real shot.
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There are now about 30 insiders claiming Dotson information. Some people should just not be allowed to post on message boards.
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Imo KU has an excellent chance at JRE, Chandler, Harvey and Hall in terms of kids that I think could announce committing to KU whenever they want.
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@BShark With Graham, ESPN would have taken him out of the 2013 rankings because he went to prep school (but he might have been too low to include anyway at that point). And they don’t include prep school guys in rankings for their new class – so he’s not in 2014 (though he is listed as four stars). Odd.
But hey, we know he’s good. Every bit that #36.
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Here is the 247 profile of S Williamson for you @jayballer54 http://247sports.com/player/samuell-williamson-46043096
I think he has a wait and see offer. Kid was previously unranked with only total crap offers at the time KU offered. Picking up some actually solid offers lately. As previously mentioned his mom and big bro graduated from KU so if KU presses, gotta think they can get it done.
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@BeddieKU23 LOL, suddenly they have all become experts right my friend? – I hear you 100%. - -where are you getting all this from bud? - - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
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BShark said:
Imo KU has an excellent chance at JRE, Chandler, Harvey and Hall in terms of kids that I think could announce committing to KU whenever they want. More Lawsons coming for late night Chandler & Johnathan - I think I had herd that Johnathan might be the best of the group.
One thing though DJ Jeffries shows no interest in us right now - -a cousin right? - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
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@BShark Well thanks for that info – - Tell me have you ever heard anything on this Grant Sherfield? - - -I know he is a 6’2 shooting guard out of Texas you heard any inside on him? - - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
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McCormack pitch seems pretty simple. Give him a before and after picture of Doke. Should have been enough to seal the deal right there.
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jayballer54 said:
@BShark Well thanks for that info – - Tell me have you ever heard anything on this Grant Sherfield? - - -I know he is a 6’2 shooting guard out of Texas you heard any inside on him? - - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
He’s actually from Wichita originally. I remember reading that he was a bit upset that KU took a commitment from Jacobs.
I think it boils down to how many guards does KU need in the class. Jacobs already committed and a good shot at Harvey, that’s already two guards, might not need more than that.
Personally, as a third guard take I’d favour Josh Green or Jalen Lecque if KU could real either in. Sherfield isn’t a bad player by any means, and likely multiple years.
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jayballer54 said:
@BeddieKU23 LOL, suddenly they have all become experts right my friend? – I hear you 100%. - -where are you getting all this from bud? - - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
What is this in reference to? If you tell me that, I can answer.
If you mean Leech then this: http://247sports.com/Article/Kentucky-Wildcats-hosting-top-50-junior-Marcedus-Leech-for-unoff-53378575
“That’s been my dream since I was a kid. If I get that offer, they’ll be on the top of my list,” Leech said. “I like everything. I like how they play, how they get up and down. I like Coach [John] Calipari. He does a lot with his guys and I’m looking forward to my visit there.”
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Kcmatt7 said:
McCormack pitch seems pretty simple. Give him a before and after picture of Doke. Should have been enough to seal the deal right there.
Not sure it mattered in this one but Embiid is still paying dividends too. KU offered 7’ Serbian stud Balsa Koprivica and when he tweeted about the offer he used a picture of Embiid, lol.
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@BShark No when I made that post I was referring about BeddieKu23 post, saying that suddenly there was like 30 Florida insiders talking about Dotson - -and BeddieKu23 saying people lie that shouldn’t be allowed on the boards lol that’s what I was referring to. - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
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@RockkChalkk interesting question about fear of commitment in guards vs big men when in situations that involve competition. Maybe guards need to start to be seen and drafted while bigs can be drafted on height and athleticism alone, regardless of PT?
