Vick and Josh
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@Kcmatt7 I am sure that I have the same level of respect for our shared education as you do. But I think my respect includes a sense that a few reported accusations covering almost 17 months are not going to destroy our alma mater, whereas hasty actions, rumors, and jumping to conclusions can destroy these young men’s lives. And I suspect someone (not the Star, with which I personally have no beef) has that in mind.
I also have respect for our system of criminal law in which I practiced, and for the fairness values underlying my condemnation of the social lynching of anyone.
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@Crimsonorblue22 said:
@HawkChamp
I keep thinking about their parents.Keep thinking about the parents and the young lady who allegedly got hit too.
@Eric-san I don’t live anywhere near KC. Fill me on the Star. I really am not aware of the Star and their biases/leanings.
@mayjay Yes, facts are great. What are the facts? 2 of our players are persons of interest in a felony. Vick hit a girl in the arm and kicked her in the face. It doesn’t matter to me that he wasn’t charged officially. If those are facts those are serious actions and as a father, as many of you are, I can’t imagine some guy doing that to one of my daughters or sons.
@BeddieKU23 Come on man. I can’t criticize the team for a report, not from TMZ but from a reputable newspaper alleges these things?
Boy we’d be having a heyday if Duke or Kentucky had been associated with all of these things!
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I’ll just say this about the KC Star … on the day of the Chiefs playoff game with Pittsburgh, they run a re-hash story on Tyreek Hill with the premise of whether some have gotten past his incident with his girlfriend. They pick the most important day in many years for Chiefs fans, a home playoff game, and run a sensationalistic repeat of old news – but of course searching out interviews to further malign the guy.
The timing was ridiculous. I guess they follow ESPN’s lead.
The Kansas City Star is a rag.
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Id rather be arguing about playing time between, LL, HUnter Mickelson or C Diallo
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@mayjay If these are legit police investigations, then yes. However, not all police reports are equal. So if this is flimsy and the Star is not filtering (which is their job) then it’s sloppy at best and negligent or self-serving at worst.
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@Bwag Those were the good old days ….
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@Bwag Jam Tray!
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@mayjay said:
@Bwag Jam Tray!
Him too!
Now we’re so thin on the bench we can’t talk PT and rotation. Our lineup is so imbalanced even Bill Self changed strategy to 4 out 1 in.
Without these off court issues, season has been downright boring.
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@bskeet Those possibilities were covered by my post.
I actually wonder if the greater negligence here is the PD for not getting a car vandalism case closed in 2 months. It makes me wonder how it is that new witnesses have been found, if that is true.
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@Fightsongwriter I agree part of the stars motive is to generate clicks but it’s been obvious for a long time the misery based paper has a grudge with KU. FYI star we didn’t make mu leave the Big 12 and become a national joke. It’s pretty clear why tearing down KU would make them feel better about their plight.
It’s sad because KU deserves quality coverage. After the Kentucky game I looked at the Lexington paper and there were about 8 different stories on the game, and even though they lost, the paper was nothing but respectful to their team.
As far as the legal issues all we know for sure is CB got busted for paraphernalia. Hopefully these kids, some from very difficult backgrounds, will use this as a wake up call and focus on making good decisions in the future. One thing we know for sure though is our head coach exhibits the highest standards and will get this sorted out and respond accordingly. I know I will continue to wear my KU gear with pride.
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NY Times just published an article. Not scarring KU at all…
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@Kcmatt7 Here it is. Pretty balanced, but he doesn’t close with the sense of doom the headline suggests. He notes the issues, says it hurts fans, as it does, but doesn’t suggest all is lost, or the guys are thugs, or some other stuff.
https://mobile.nytimes.com/2017/02/02/sports/ncaabasketball/kansas-jayhawks-baylor-bears.html
Note: if you have been reading NYT articles, you might have to clear your cookies from your browser cache to access this.
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First… news organizations get away with verbal murder. They always have, and hopefully, always will. I said “hopefully” because of the only realist alternative, that free press is silenced.
The Star is a McClatchy paper and under monster financial pressure. They are pimping out the quality of journalism just trying to stay alive.
This is the state of journalism today. Their expression of thoughts are protected by the Constitution, but their financial survival is not. A big part of what they are selling is the headlines themselves. Controversial headlines are actually more valuable today than the content in the story behind them. Controversial headlines gain more attention, harvest paid clicks, and even sells real paper newspapers. This is journalism today. I’ve been told that some stories exist only because magnetic headlines were developed FIRST, and the stories were done just to finish the sold goods (headlines).
Having said that… I still think there are a few old antlers on staff. They have an opportunity to “create news” and are jumping on Kansas hoping to sell more papers. You have to remember that a huge chunk of their potential customers are MU fans.
The Star has a long history of bashing Kansas. None of this is new… and probably little of this is actually news.
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@drgnslayr Since I haven’t read the Star on paper for years and only the Royals coverage online, I was unaware of an anti-KU animus. Didn’t that largely begin with Whitlock?
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Currently, our team is a rolling snowball going downhill. It continues to pick up more snow and grow.
This probably started with the first CB situation. After that, media looks to pin more on Kansas. Story targets pick up momentum. Once one story picks up traction, it is much easier to pick up traction on the subsequent stories.
If you don’t understand what I mean… just think back to the Hillary Clinton email story phenomenon. Perfect example.
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@wrwlumpy I posted that time line
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@bskeet Her brother was also killed in Texas within the past couple years trying to attack & kill people in an act of domestic terrorism. Several members of this particular family, for whatever reasons, have definitely acted in anti social & sociopathic behaviors on more than a few occasions. Even the parents public statements leave much to question in their outlook of their existence in the USA. At least one family member has been terminated by an employer since that boy was shot. This is clearly a smear campaign by representatives of someone with an axe to grind, & even possibly with financial motivations. Clearly the type of people that, if you know much of their background at all, you wouldn’t touch with the proverbial ten foot pole. Of course this is just one old mans opinion & certainly no malice intended
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@Kcmatt7 maybe they’re playstation guys haha
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@Crimsonorblue22 Another timeline raised by someone on the LDJW site, checked by me in the LDJW stories and on Google Maps:
Dec 9 (Friday) 1 a.m. Bragg’s altercation at 1000 block of Emery Rd, leading to charges later dropped against him.
Dec 9 (Friday) 2 a.m. Alleged car vandalism at 530 Wisconsin, some 4 to 5 blocks away.
This particular timeline is consistent with way too many possibilities. I am going to bed.
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@mayjay I don’t believe the Star is behind this either but the messenger printing the copy they’re given - i.e.: the "scoop "
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@Kcmatt7 Relax Matt This is a smear campaign that will eventually be exposed
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@Jayrawks1 Jeff Rosen? Is that kin to the stars Steve Rose
? He owns several smaller Kansas newspapers & has shortened his name. Also has had some interesting & controversial dialogue in his past. Some might describe him as a “rare” bird Some others might say kook
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@globaljaybird so you think unidentified someone is giving them false news?
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@Crimsonorblue22 Just a gut feeling because of the continuance of the information & the “news” all breaking from one source- the KC
️ Sooner or later they will be forced to verify accusations & it may or may not be false at that point The damages are clearly already being accumulated & a retraction would do little except be a formality
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@TRUBLUE Uh, maybe you mistyped your name here, isnt it “BigBlue”? Troll Alert! Still sore your KY boyz lost their poise at home in Rupp?
Go back & read your own post: Way outta place, and make no sense…what a laugher!
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@ralster I think you are wrong, check his old posts
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@mayjay said:
Since I haven’t read the Star on paper for years and only the Royals coverage online, I was unaware of an anti-KU animus. Didn’t that largely begin with Whitlock?
I believe several decades before Whitlock. My memory stinks, but I recall some negative press back in the 70s. I bet there are other posters in here that have better memories and can post about it, with clarification.
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This! They need to do what Russ Rob says.
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@HawkInMizery so you think I’ll be watching Tyler self play sat? I wish Self would ban the star guys from his interviews
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@Crimsonorblue22 man i hope not. well actually i hope so if it’s for the right reason namely that we are giving ISU the business.
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Having been around the block a few times. In situations like this, means we have a witch hunt. When you have a witch hunt, all you need to do is follow the money trail. There you’ll find the answers to the questions we all have.
My guess is ??? KU is really turning around the football program, and with a national brand in basketball. KU becomes a must have for those conferences looking to expand. If this were the case ??? Then Kstate is in big trouble and the powers to be know it. I have no hard evidence so take what I say with a lot of salt. Yet I get this feeling those in power positions want KU and Kstate joined at the hip no matter how far it might drag down KU.
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@drgnslayr Whitlock hated KU with a passion.
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@Crimsonorblue22 I guess I’m just too lazy, sorry.
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Witch hunt, bullshit, and all around crazy. Don’t be fooled. It’s obvious what’s happening. First Bragg, then Vick, and NOW JJ? PLEASE and give me a break.
Let’s not feed the monster anymore than has been fed. Let’s let this die a slow death. We all know one of the top recruits in the nation, would NOT throw his NBA career or draft status away on something so scummy as this. He is too far removed from this and IF, IF, IF, he did have anything remotely to do with this, he was simply standing by and maybe trying to keep his teammate from this very trashy tabloid mess. My guess it’s trumped and the scum that cooked this mess is not only dealing Vick, but they’ve raised the stakes and are now dealing Jackson into the whole mess. Their agenda is obvious. Let’s let Self and Co take care of this trash. It will be taken out and disposed of properly.
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@wissox said:
I don’t live anywhere near KC. Fill me on the Star. I really am not aware of the Star and their biases/leanings.
Let’s just say there’s a reason some call it the “Red Star” around these parts.
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BIFM is next! Don’t worry the Star’s got stories for days
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“Let’s not feed the monster anymore than has been fed.”
Probably a wise idea.
But we are ready for Plan B, if necessary. “Plan B”… the “B” stands for Bad Boys. We already know how to play Bad Ball. We could become the WVU on steroids. We won’t call it a “full court press”… ours will be “full court smash!”
Look at the bright side… We don’t have to worry about giving up points in the post. Any opponent DARE come in the post with the ball gets undercut, punched, or has a bong shoved up their backside!
BTW: We can recruit Eric Laimbeer… Bill Laimbeer’s son. He has the perfect record to help build our new reputation.
(Friday comic relief)
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@mayjay … yikes, I don’t like that timeline at all.
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The timeline for the McCarthy incident would appear to indicate that there us no way KU players could have been there by 10:00 PM as I posted in detail when the story broke. The Davidson game was scheduled to start at 6:05 PM and I seem to recall it being about average duration, or app. 2 hours. By the time they showered and did the after game interviews and got ready to leave it would have been not any earlier than 9:00 PM and perhaps as late as 9:30 PM.
A quick search for direction indicates a travel time of app. 50 minutes between the Sprint Center and AFH which is next to McCarthy. Anyone living the the KC area knows that at 8:00 PM a the Power and Light District, where the print Center is located, is a nut house, particularly after a KU game and it would have taken at least 15 minutes just to dive out of the area. Also, For a 6:00 PM game, the team probably had a late lunch and ate dinner after the game which would add at least another 2 hours. So, best case, the team does not get back to their dorm until 10:30 PM and close to midnight if the stopped for dinner, The call came in at 10:00 PM which would indicate the incident took place before that and while the players where heading back to but not at the dorm. Most likely scenario is that as they were walking to the building in groups from the bus, they saw somebody leave the building. Any thing beyond that is just [pushing the limits of reality. There is no reason for a responsible journalist to continue to bring this incident in any reporting about the KU program, any more that the false arrest of Bragg, other that to imply guilt by association even they write a disingenuous disclaimer. The fact that they even mention these events is wrong…in my opinion.
If the same chick is involved in all these incidents that would be a major consideration. I have dated my share of crazy women but, if this is the same woman in all the incidents, this one takes the cake since single handedly would have created a virtual crime wave in Lawrence.
There is no question that the KC Start does not like KU, ever since Joe Posnanski left the paper in 2009 the paper has not had a single sports writer of his stature or substance.
KU vs SEC in Basketball this season: 2-0
MU vs SEC in Basketball this season: 0-9
It probably is a sore point for the Star that MU, the flagship state institutio0n, is basically circling the drain, not only the sports program,s are in full disarray but the reputation of the school has taken a brutal hit in the last few years, including 3,000 student deciding to enroll elsewhere creating a $30M deficit and causing dorms to be closed, in a time where comparable schoo,l such as KU, have their dorms above capacity and P\programs such as the KU Medical Center getting national recognition while the MU Medical School falls behind, so they take their frustration on KU.
“There is perhaps no phenomenon which contains so much destructive feeling as ‘moral indignation,’ which permits envy or hate to be acted out under the guise of virtue.” ― Erich Fromm, Man for Himself: An Inquiry into the Psychology of Ethics
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@drgnslayr Now that’s funny. Chip off the old block?
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@JayHawkFanToo I actually saw the team bus pull off the turnpike after 10:30 that night. Not sure of the exact time, but it was after 10:30.
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I played with a guy that looked EXACTLY like Bill. He was huge, strong, and he played equally dirty. I usually felt relieved that we were on the same team… except during scrimmages.
It really empowers a team to have an “enforcer.”
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I REALLY enjoyed your last post!
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@JayHawkFanToo Several of Erich Fromm’s other books are very instructive in our current times. Especially Escape From Freedom, The Sane Society, and The Anatomy of Human Destructiveness. Thanks for the reminder.
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Thank you. Finally we have some real information. with your first hand information, now we know the team did not get to the dorm until close to 11:00 PM or well after the incident was reported. Why reporters did not bother do do this simple check is beyond me…probably creating alternate facts.
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Thanks. We all need from time to time to sit back and look at the entire picture rather than look at it through the narrow opening of our own biases.
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@JayHawkFanToo said:
“There is perhaps no phenomenon which contains so much destructive feeling as ‘moral indignation,’ which permits envy or hate to be acted out under the guise of virtue.”
How true. great post.
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@JayHawkFanToo said:
There is no question that the KC Start does not like KU, ever since Joe Posnanski left the paper in 2009 the paper has not had a single sports writer of his stature or substance.
Since I don’t live in the area I don’t know much about the Star. But doesn’t Jesse Newell working there give some semblance of a pro ku influence there?
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@wissox Maybe some but he’s not the editor that would have rank in a yay or nay call on a copy. The Star
️ has been in the trash for decades with high costs, poor quality & dwindling readership. The entire KC metro 
is also very small compared to other cities. Maybe 2 million combined for both states & all burbs. Now enter the computer news age & print newspapers are facing extinction. Crap 
like they’re printing now is just expediting the phenomenon It’s kinda sad to some "more experienced " of us who cut our teeth on reading 
papers growing up, but WTH that’s how it goes, first your money 
then your clothes…
