Vick and Josh
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@BeddieKU23 Exactly - - - -PLEASE this is just past crazy - -let due process play it’self. out - -if it needs to stop - -dam. - -nothing like throwing gasoline on an open flame - -like BeddieKU23 says – -Please just stop - - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
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Why does KC Star hate KU?
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Next up, several members of KU Jayhawks being questioned for allegedly jaywalking after 2am in 2014.
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Hey KC Star, here’s a news tip: Allen Fieldhouse is a safe house for immigrants.
Seriously, if these reports are false, the source and the Star are on the edge of libel/slander, because this kind of repeated accusation appears to be with intent to defame and the Star is propagating the misinformation… Unless such protections are now dead in an era of Fake News.
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@Kcmatt7 Facts are never irrelevant. The fact that this occurred on Dec 9 and no one has been arrested in almost two months suggests that there are a lot of unknowns here.
Perhaps these things are being leaked by someone with a vendetta who filed spurious charges and is frustrated that their intended targets are not being railroaded.
Perhaps they did do it and are the only clearly identified felons allowed to walk around for 55 days without facing any charges.
Perhaps they are being targeted by someone so that people who are afraid of bad publicity will start freaking out and demand that heads must roll. No facts? Get the axe!
But go ahead, burn your gear if you like. For me, I will wait for more. And if people look askance at my KU sweatshirt, I will wear it happily, and I will respond to any comments or questions just as I would have previously. “Yes, I believe in Bill Self’s integrity.” “Yes, I am proud.” “Yes, I believe in the right of anyone not to be pilloried by rumors, social media, or their own blasted fanbase.”
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@BeddieKU23 Since when does someone of character let the internet determine where he or she stands when it comes to the matter of treating other people fairly?
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Now everyone, we are all frustrated about what has transpired. I started this thread for informational purposes and do not want everyone getting mad at each other. I am sure that Bill knows much more about this and I am confident in his ability to handle it properly. I personally doubt charges will ever be filed against Vick and JJ, so let’s all take a step back and wait for more info.
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Welcome to Kansas. Where we call reputable news sources liars and value basketball over integrity.
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@HawkChamp
I keep thinking about their parents.
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@bskeet Technically, if the two players were identified in the police report as persons of interest as detailed in the article, there could be no libel provided the Star was not negligent in believing that the police report was genuine. Papers are allowed to report even things from confidential police files (although woebetide someone who gets held in contempt for divulging it).
If the Star said they were named in a report but omitted a finding from the report that they definitely did not do it, the Star could be guilty of what is known as a “false light” tort, which means setting out facts that portray someone negatively while knowing the conclusion to be drawn therefrom is false.
The Star seems to be on safe ground here, but I don’t know about their sources. I expect the Douglas County DA’s office will be doing a pretty intense investigation, as will KU.
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@Kcmatt7 Doesn’t the integrity of an investigation matter, too?
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For everyone’s consideration, please note what Wikipedia says about the term person of interest. Read the very last sentence I bolded if nothing else.
“Person of interest” is a term used by U.S. law enforcement when identifying someone involved in a criminal investigation who has not been arrested or formally accused of a crime. It has no legal meaning, but refers to someone in whom the police are “interested,” either because the person is cooperating with the investigation, may have information that would assist the investigation, or possesses certain characteristics that merit further attention.
While terms such as suspect, target, and material witness have clear and sometimes formal definitions, person of interest remains undefined by the U.S. Department of Justice… Person of interest is sometimes used as a euphemism for suspect, and its careless use may encourage trials by media.
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@mayjay Not really.
You realize the majority of crimes that get reported don’t end up with charges being filed right? Hefty majority. Doesn’t make the person accused not guilty of the crime. Just means they don’t have evidence to charge them.
Most bank robbers aren’t caught. Most hit and runs aren’t caught. Most DV accusations get dropped. So just because our guys aren’t getting charged doesn’t mean they are completely innocent in all of this.
I’m sorry that it pisses me off to see news that our players were being idiots (guilty or not they are putting themselves in situations to get in trouble and be on police reports, most of which are public record). It devalues something I care about and something I am proud to be. That diploma I busted my ass for. That I went into crazy debt for. That I worked 35+ hours a week on top of class for. The fact that I was the first generation in my family to graduate college. And that I am so proud to call myself a first generation Jayhawk after being a fan my entire life. That apparently other people don’t have the same respect for that I do.
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Let’s not forget the Star has been going down the tubes faster than crap through a goose. They have to justify their existance to sell much smaller papers. They are piling on to any thread that will create hype. Smacks of desperation while “home town” MU is beyond putrid and mired in a long losing streak.
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From Matt Scott
If you’re blasting #kubball players - trust me when I tell you nothing is as it reads and there is a HUGE other side to the story
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Look at the pictures they are choosing. Look at how they are reporting (using that term loosely). Look at how they keep tieing togrther accusations. Muckraking 101. Trying to drive up clicks and sales to justify their dwindling ad revenue.
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This is a good candidate for locking
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.@LawrenceKS_PD says it’s not named suspect or any “persons of interest” involving 12/9 vandalism re: rpt. Vick & Jackson are POI’s #kubball
From John Holt (fox 4 news)
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@Kcmatt7 I am sure that I have the same level of respect for our shared education as you do. But I think my respect includes a sense that a few reported accusations covering almost 17 months are not going to destroy our alma mater, whereas hasty actions, rumors, and jumping to conclusions can destroy these young men’s lives. And I suspect someone (not the Star, with which I personally have no beef) has that in mind.
I also have respect for our system of criminal law in which I practiced, and for the fairness values underlying my condemnation of the social lynching of anyone.
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@Crimsonorblue22 said:
@HawkChamp
I keep thinking about their parents.Keep thinking about the parents and the young lady who allegedly got hit too.
@Eric-san I don’t live anywhere near KC. Fill me on the Star. I really am not aware of the Star and their biases/leanings.
@mayjay Yes, facts are great. What are the facts? 2 of our players are persons of interest in a felony. Vick hit a girl in the arm and kicked her in the face. It doesn’t matter to me that he wasn’t charged officially. If those are facts those are serious actions and as a father, as many of you are, I can’t imagine some guy doing that to one of my daughters or sons.
@BeddieKU23 Come on man. I can’t criticize the team for a report, not from TMZ but from a reputable newspaper alleges these things?
Boy we’d be having a heyday if Duke or Kentucky had been associated with all of these things!
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I’ll just say this about the KC Star … on the day of the Chiefs playoff game with Pittsburgh, they run a re-hash story on Tyreek Hill with the premise of whether some have gotten past his incident with his girlfriend. They pick the most important day in many years for Chiefs fans, a home playoff game, and run a sensationalistic repeat of old news – but of course searching out interviews to further malign the guy.
The timing was ridiculous. I guess they follow ESPN’s lead.
The Kansas City Star is a rag.
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Id rather be arguing about playing time between, LL, HUnter Mickelson or C Diallo
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@mayjay If these are legit police investigations, then yes. However, not all police reports are equal. So if this is flimsy and the Star is not filtering (which is their job) then it’s sloppy at best and negligent or self-serving at worst.
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@Bwag Those were the good old days ….
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@Bwag Jam Tray!
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@mayjay said:
@Bwag Jam Tray!
Him too!
Now we’re so thin on the bench we can’t talk PT and rotation. Our lineup is so imbalanced even Bill Self changed strategy to 4 out 1 in.
Without these off court issues, season has been downright boring.
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@bskeet Those possibilities were covered by my post.
I actually wonder if the greater negligence here is the PD for not getting a car vandalism case closed in 2 months. It makes me wonder how it is that new witnesses have been found, if that is true.
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@Fightsongwriter I agree part of the stars motive is to generate clicks but it’s been obvious for a long time the misery based paper has a grudge with KU. FYI star we didn’t make mu leave the Big 12 and become a national joke. It’s pretty clear why tearing down KU would make them feel better about their plight.
It’s sad because KU deserves quality coverage. After the Kentucky game I looked at the Lexington paper and there were about 8 different stories on the game, and even though they lost, the paper was nothing but respectful to their team.
As far as the legal issues all we know for sure is CB got busted for paraphernalia. Hopefully these kids, some from very difficult backgrounds, will use this as a wake up call and focus on making good decisions in the future. One thing we know for sure though is our head coach exhibits the highest standards and will get this sorted out and respond accordingly. I know I will continue to wear my KU gear with pride.
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NY Times just published an article. Not scarring KU at all…
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@Kcmatt7 Here it is. Pretty balanced, but he doesn’t close with the sense of doom the headline suggests. He notes the issues, says it hurts fans, as it does, but doesn’t suggest all is lost, or the guys are thugs, or some other stuff.
https://mobile.nytimes.com/2017/02/02/sports/ncaabasketball/kansas-jayhawks-baylor-bears.html
Note: if you have been reading NYT articles, you might have to clear your cookies from your browser cache to access this.
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First… news organizations get away with verbal murder. They always have, and hopefully, always will. I said “hopefully” because of the only realist alternative, that free press is silenced.
The Star is a McClatchy paper and under monster financial pressure. They are pimping out the quality of journalism just trying to stay alive.
This is the state of journalism today. Their expression of thoughts are protected by the Constitution, but their financial survival is not. A big part of what they are selling is the headlines themselves. Controversial headlines are actually more valuable today than the content in the story behind them. Controversial headlines gain more attention, harvest paid clicks, and even sells real paper newspapers. This is journalism today. I’ve been told that some stories exist only because magnetic headlines were developed FIRST, and the stories were done just to finish the sold goods (headlines).
Having said that… I still think there are a few old antlers on staff. They have an opportunity to “create news” and are jumping on Kansas hoping to sell more papers. You have to remember that a huge chunk of their potential customers are MU fans.
The Star has a long history of bashing Kansas. None of this is new… and probably little of this is actually news.
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@drgnslayr Since I haven’t read the Star on paper for years and only the Royals coverage online, I was unaware of an anti-KU animus. Didn’t that largely begin with Whitlock?
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Currently, our team is a rolling snowball going downhill. It continues to pick up more snow and grow.
This probably started with the first CB situation. After that, media looks to pin more on Kansas. Story targets pick up momentum. Once one story picks up traction, it is much easier to pick up traction on the subsequent stories.
If you don’t understand what I mean… just think back to the Hillary Clinton email story phenomenon. Perfect example.
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@wrwlumpy I posted that time line
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@bskeet Her brother was also killed in Texas within the past couple years trying to attack & kill people in an act of domestic terrorism. Several members of this particular family, for whatever reasons, have definitely acted in anti social & sociopathic behaviors on more than a few occasions. Even the parents public statements leave much to question in their outlook of their existence in the USA. At least one family member has been terminated by an employer since that boy was shot. This is clearly a smear campaign by representatives of someone with an axe to grind, & even possibly with financial motivations. Clearly the type of people that, if you know much of their background at all, you wouldn’t touch with the proverbial ten foot pole. Of course this is just one old mans opinion & certainly no malice intended
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@Kcmatt7 maybe they’re playstation guys haha
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@Crimsonorblue22 Another timeline raised by someone on the LDJW site, checked by me in the LDJW stories and on Google Maps:
Dec 9 (Friday) 1 a.m. Bragg’s altercation at 1000 block of Emery Rd, leading to charges later dropped against him.
Dec 9 (Friday) 2 a.m. Alleged car vandalism at 530 Wisconsin, some 4 to 5 blocks away.
This particular timeline is consistent with way too many possibilities. I am going to bed.
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@mayjay I don’t believe the Star is behind this either but the messenger printing the copy they’re given - i.e.: the "scoop "
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@Kcmatt7 Relax Matt This is a smear campaign that will eventually be exposed
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@Jayrawks1 Jeff Rosen? Is that kin to the stars Steve Rose
? He owns several smaller Kansas newspapers & has shortened his name. Also has had some interesting & controversial dialogue in his past. Some might describe him as a “rare” bird Some others might say kook
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@globaljaybird so you think unidentified someone is giving them false news?
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@Crimsonorblue22 Just a gut feeling because of the continuance of the information & the “news” all breaking from one source- the KC
️ Sooner or later they will be forced to verify accusations & it may or may not be false at that point The damages are clearly already being accumulated & a retraction would do little except be a formality
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@TRUBLUE Uh, maybe you mistyped your name here, isnt it “BigBlue”? Troll Alert! Still sore your KY boyz lost their poise at home in Rupp?
Go back & read your own post: Way outta place, and make no sense…what a laugher!
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@ralster I think you are wrong, check his old posts
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@mayjay said:
Since I haven’t read the Star on paper for years and only the Royals coverage online, I was unaware of an anti-KU animus. Didn’t that largely begin with Whitlock?
I believe several decades before Whitlock. My memory stinks, but I recall some negative press back in the 70s. I bet there are other posters in here that have better memories and can post about it, with clarification.
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This! They need to do what Russ Rob says.
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@HawkInMizery so you think I’ll be watching Tyler self play sat? I wish Self would ban the star guys from his interviews
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@Crimsonorblue22 man i hope not. well actually i hope so if it’s for the right reason namely that we are giving ISU the business.
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Having been around the block a few times. In situations like this, means we have a witch hunt. When you have a witch hunt, all you need to do is follow the money trail. There you’ll find the answers to the questions we all have.
My guess is ??? KU is really turning around the football program, and with a national brand in basketball. KU becomes a must have for those conferences looking to expand. If this were the case ??? Then Kstate is in big trouble and the powers to be know it. I have no hard evidence so take what I say with a lot of salt. Yet I get this feeling those in power positions want KU and Kstate joined at the hip no matter how far it might drag down KU.
