Bye Bye Ernest
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@kuballin10 said in Bye Bye Ernest:
@jayballer67 trying to have our cake and eat it to.
Hunter > udeh & zuby
Kids want to play now can’t blame them
Bill wants best players now can’t blame him
We want to build the best team every year and a mcd’s guy isn’t sold on playing 10 minutes a game his sophomore year i get it.
If Bill said you are third behind Hunter and KJ for minutes I get why guys are transferring
just comes a time when as a staff you have to say enough. - We got Hunter and yes even hopefully Mgbako but dam like you said I don’t blame Udeh & Zuby – whateve happened to development of players- -just down the crapper. I think having to give some 2nd thought to what the portal is doing to College Basketball. - no loyalty-- let’s just ban screw recruitemneet of High School players.
That was one of the big thigs I liked about Bill his developing of players but this is BS
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@kuballin10 said in Bye Bye Ernest:
Juan - Morris - Mgbako/Timberlake - Nelson - Hunter
Haha not sure that’s fair
Don’t count your eggs just yet on Mgbako - from what I’m hearing today
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@jayballer67 nah we’re as solid as can be
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@FarmerJayhawk said in Bye Bye Ernest:
@jayballer67 nah we’re as solid as can be
Hope your right big guy - - I trust you, i dunno just kind of frustrated about things. - Ya guess for sure it’s all came down to win , win , win. Although w have won , won , won , previously with the way Bill Recruited looks like he just has said - -screw that - -I Can see Hunter the most but I think we were good with Hunter and others should of called it a day. - Went with our remaining players we would be good
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So now we have THREE open Scholis right ? - - Dam Kyle should of stayed
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@Eric-san said in Bye Bye Ernest:
Can’t say I saw this coming. Jalen Wilson might be the last legacy player we see at KU.
Dejuan and KJ
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Biggest mistake of his life IMO, if him and Zuby go some place where they can play right away it won’t be power 5. They have probably played their last NCAA tournament game if they ain’t willing to go to a program and develop.
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It will be interesting to see how much playing time Ernest & Zuby get at new schools. If they sit for a year, what’s the point? If not, good for them.
Also, hopefully the new schools actually pay their NIL money. Lots of rumors about non-payment of NIL.
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I wonder if either would stay if HD only had 1 year of eligibility.
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With the roster composition we had, KJ made too much sense at the 4 due toba lack of Natura 3/4’s on the roster. KJ at the 4 also would’ve allowed Self to bring back elements of the hi-low because KJ and Hunter would have been a great combo for it. We also know Self isn’t opposed to playing KJ at the 4 as there were times last year KJ and Udeh were on the floor together.
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@jayballer67 Development of players isn’t down the crapper. It’s players wanting to play now.
Guarantee Bill wanted Udeh here and there is NO Chance he was pushed out.
Udeh wants to go somewhere and play now rather than develop here.
I get it and honestly nothing replaces in game reps/development
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@kjayhawks said in Bye Bye Ernest:
Biggest mistake of his life IMO, if him and Zuby go some place where they can play right away it won’t be power 5. They have probably played their last NCAA tournament game if they ain’t willing to go to a program and develop.
Zuby’s list of schools he’s visiting starting today is Villanova, St. John’s, TCU and San Diego St. He’ll be a major program in a system that plays to his strengths as all have defensive minded coaches and the one school on that list that’s a mid-major is coming off a Final Four appearance. All 4 of those schools are places he will either start or be the first big off the bench and be a significant contributor.
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@Texas-Hawk-10 They played together minimally.
Reading the boards it seems that Bill wants shooters around Juan and Hunter. That isn’t kj.
KJ will be the backup 5 and change of pace guy.
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Well hopefully we can find another quality big looking for a spot now , getting late in the game
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@jayballer67 said in Bye Bye Ernest:
Well hopefully we can find another quality big looking for a spot now , getting late in the game
Well there are two pretty goods one out there who’d be perfect… Udeh and Zuby. Seriously, who would be better than either of those guys?
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Seeing the same thing I have been thinking now and saying. Read from other people I am just really thinking/ how this whole thing plays out in the future. Others also saying and I just have a feeling this might have some effect in the future-- future recruits how is this going to effect Bills future recruitment with HS players. - I truly feel this just MIGHT come back and bit him right square in the ass.
These guys gonna have a whole different look/approach about how they feel about Coach- -well actually might be the parents looking at Coach differently , recruit my kid and talk about how they are gonna be a fixture in the program and then not even get the chance to prove that they are that fixture - - being recruited over - not a good look. - you can snicker, laugh deny whatever but it could happen- it could VREY EASILY happen. - like another here said no need to try and get to know players anymore cause they are not going to be here long enough.
I can rmembe a time not that long ago when fans were hollering at higher ranked kids - saying they don’t stay long enough to care about - how the players weren’t even un packing their suit cases , how it was hard to connect with them and how the kid couldn’t be invested in the program when they one and done - - - -WELL hard for a player to connect when they are here for a year- -a kid you know that would be a three - -four yr guy that develops - example Doke - -McCormack - -Och how they progressed got bette through the years - -I just think could have some implicatins on down the line
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@DanR said in Bye Bye Ernest:
@jayballer67 said in Bye Bye Ernest:
Well hopefully we can find another quality big looking for a spot now , getting late in the game
Well there are two pretty goods one out there who’d be perfect… Udeh and Zuby. Seriously, who would be better than either of those guys?
exactly right would love either-- unfortunate for us - -Doke has no more time lol - -Zuby sure not coming back & I don’t blame him… OH i got it I go the perfect back up 5-- shoot why didn’t I think of it sooner.- -Surely there is a way we could get ANOTHER YEAR OR TWO somehow from MITCH LIGHTFOOT - -ya that’s it lol - -Coach get on the Phone see if MITCh wants to play years 7 & 8 lol
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If the roster turns over again next year, really what’s the point of college sports? I just don’t care about these transfer guys. They barely seem like Jayhawks. No tradition or lineage.
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Yuck - bad news. Is there a chance this was just a hedge in case that last spot was going to get filled by another big? Wasn’t time running out to get your name into the portal? Zuby specifically said he wouldn’t rule out returning to KU. Udeh was the perfect fit, would have gotten plenty of minutes for a typical sophmore big at KU and could develop under a HOF coach, Elite program, be the likely favorite for a championship, collect a premium NIL compared to most places, etc. I’m very surprised by this one.
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@FarmerJayhawk I know I could look it up but who is Grant Nelson? Is he a candidate to come?
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So many excellent points made by many on here. How many times have we wished a player had developed into what we originally pegged their potential to be, but failed to live up to. Getting so hyped and caring so much about the eventually busts they become. Instead coach can go get the players he knows have developed those aspects of their game with big time college playing experience. Nothing like Kentucky bringing in overhyped freshmen with no college experience or college developed bodies and stamina. The plus I see is Kansas won’t have down years anymore. No more wondering and waiting for a window to have a great team. Each coming year will be National Champions or bust. How painful has it been going into a year knowing the team has a glaring weakness that inevitably will result in an early tourney ouster.
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A ‘down year’ for Kansas is what, a 4 seed? lol We sure are spoiled.
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So now it’s time to say it’s a dam good thing we get to play games this summer. a time so ALL these ne guys get a chance to meet their new team mates, and try to get some kind of chemistry going, you can have all the talent in the world but if players not bonded or have a feel for his team mate then what good does it do to have all that talent - When will e gon play I know summer but what is it like Jike August or around there ?
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@madmax said in Bye Bye Ernest:
The plus I see is Kansas won’t have down years anymore. No more wondering and waiting for a window to have a great team. Each coming year will be National Champions or bust. How painful has it been going into a year knowing the team has a glaring weakness that inevitably will result in an early tourney ouster.
What proof do we have that Coach Self can navigate this many new guys? The key to his success has always been guys who have been in his system a few years. Self is EXTREMELY difficult to deal with for first year guys. Look how many freshman can’t deal with him. Look how Remi had issues for a lot of his one year. It’s always worked because it was a weeding out process that led to every year having a mentally strong team filled with guys who withstood it all.
People are looking at all the incoming guys and assuming they will all be great. Self’s history proves that about 75% of newcomers will either struggle with his demands and/or won’t earn his trust enough to garner playing time. On top of that we now have only TWO guys left to help the new guys navigate it.
Of course it’s possible Self truly has softened. I just don’t believe it.
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Oh man. Sad to hear this in so many ways.
Both seemed to be in berserker mode on the court, but I thought both Zuby and Ernest had great potential. How often are bigs amazing in their first year?
This new portal / NIL world is difficult for us consumers to adjust to. Is it sustainable year after year?
I can’t blame Self for wanting to rework the roster. It wasn’t ideal last season, but I was at least pleased with the long term bigs we had, or thought we had.
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@BeddieKU23 said in Bye Bye Ernest:
Another casualty to the portal. No use anymore getting attached to kids
OUCH. Oh well, I wish him well at his future location.
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I get it. I don’t like it, but I get it.
He’s going to tear it up somewhere. Hopefully not against us.
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Also, the general consensus is that this hurts us down the road. Which is true, but…
This also hurts us immediately.
The scout team takes a huge hit. This is a big experiment because it’s hard to quantify the value of the scout team. However, history suggests that the best Bill Self teams consistently have had outstanding scout teams. For this team to do great things, they will not have that benefit.
Without some of the guys who transfered, our scout team is not going to be able to push the starters in the same way. Ernest and Zuby had skill and size that would test Hunter and would resemble the kind of competition he would likely face.
I don’t know if this is a great analogy, but it seems like it would be like getting a great car and a great driver at the expense of experienced crew members… And generally when you compete at the highest level, the winning difference is not just about the driver and the car. (I don’t know much about racing so, maybe this is a terrible comparison… but hopefully it gets the point across that the guys that don’t get the limelight also contribute significantly.)
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@BigBad great points, not saying you’re wrong. It might take another couple years for someone like Udeh to develope the skills Hunter already has and has proven to be able to demonstrate against P5 “Big 10” competition. He is going to make the game so much easier for everyone on the court around him. 40% from 3 threat that can back his man down from the high post, and vision to find the open shooter/cutter. Someone like Timberlake 40%+ proven sharp shooter who doesn’t wilt or shy away from taking the big shots. Morris is probably the most explosive athletic guard Self has had including Dotson in years, with plenty of Big-12 experience. Probably would have averaged impressive #'s has he not been stuck behind all those returning stars on the perimeter for Texas. Guarding KU is going to be a match-up nightmare for opposing teams. Can’t say that about last year’s team or even the NC team.
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@BigBad said in Bye Bye Ernest:
@madmax said in Bye Bye Ernest:
The plus I see is Kansas won’t have down years anymore. No more wondering and waiting for a window to have a great team. Each coming year will be National Champions or bust. How painful has it been going into a year knowing the team has a glaring weakness that inevitably will result in an early tourney ouster.
What proof do we have that Coach Self can navigate this many new guys? The key to his success has always been guys who have been in his system a few years. Self is EXTREMELY difficult to deal with for first year guys. Look how many freshman can’t deal with him. Look how Remi had issues for a lot of his one year. It’s always worked because it was a weeding out process that led to every year having a mentally strong team filled with guys who withstood it all.
People are looking at all the incoming guys and assuming they will all be great. Self’s history proves that about 75% of newcomers will either struggle with his demands and/or won’t earn his trust enough to garner playing time. On top of that we now have only TWO guys left to help the new guys navigate it.
Of course it’s possible Self truly has softened. I just don’t believe it.
So, explain McCullar to me.
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@Jethro Did you not see the 75% number I listed?
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@BigBad He blows a hole in your narrative, even considering your 75% number you pulled out of thin air. I would say Remy blows your theory out of the water, too. If there was ever an example of a player integrating into our system, it would be Remy. Not only was he the star of our team throughout the NCAA tournament, his block of Love’s drive to the basket was one of the key moments that allowed us to win a national championship. To go from playing absolutely no defense, not learning any of our plays to becoming a star in the NCAA tournament was an incredible job by our coaching staff integrating Remy into our system.
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@jayballer67 I totally agree that this could bite KU in the ass in the future. Hopefully not, but I will not be surprised. Recruiting over what you already have and not allowing growing pains with the younger bigs or any player for that matter will bring hesitation to any HS recruit and his family. The IARP and now this could hurt recruiting for years to come unless the player is more interested about money than playing basketball. And unless there is a clause within the NIL that states that maximum payment is based upon effort/performance, then there is no guarantee that the players will perform to their potential.
Obviously, I don’t know much about how NIL works, so if I am wrong about that, then let me know.
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@Jethro You want a whole team of guys like Remy? I’m glad he stepped up in March, but it did take the entire season for him to buy in. Guys like Mitch, Dave, Och, Braun and Harris were the real Jayhawks on that team.
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So its a theory that Self is hard on new guys? It’s a theory that most first year guys struggle under him? Again most gloss over some of this because there is always a vet who steps in and fills the void. This year there won’t be any of those so it’s going to be REALLY interesting.
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@DanR we will never have those guys anymore. Those are the guys I love to watch, guys that love KU, like Dtae, Frank, so many more of our 3 and 4 yr guys. Play for the name on the front.
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So - who pays for all the gallivanting? When a player jumps to a different school (or 4 or 5 of them), who’s picking up the tab? The player and his family? The school that they transfer to? The taxpayers of that state? The more I think about this, the pisseder off I get.
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@patoh3 said in Bye Bye Ernest:
@jayballer67 I totally agree that this could bite KU in the ass in the future. Hopefully not, but I will not be surprised. Recruiting over what you already have and not allowing growing pains with the younger bigs or any player for that matter will bring hesitation to any HS recruit and his family. The IARP and now this could hurt recruiting for years to come unless the player is more interested about money than playing basketball. And unless there is a clause within the NIL that states that maximum payment is based upon effort/performance, then there is no guarantee that the players will perform to their potential.
Obviously, I don’t know much about how NIL works, so if I am wrong about that, then let me know.The NIl is turning College sports into a big free Agency. - Hunter stated in an article that NIL was an increase in his pay---- over Michigan, saying that there was nobody in the room would not take a 10,000 dollar increase. - It’s all about the biggest bidder. you can say what you want but bottom line is now - - It’s not about a School , it’s not about a Coach - -it’s all about the money. I saw a post sometime back about how now all College players is just farm system , kids getting money off the NIL & it’s only going to continue to get worse - -Amateur as we knew it will no longer exists, the fun is being taken out of the game , the days of kids playing ball for the love of the game-- -is gone. It’s for sure more of a business now then in the pat.
Sure the ultimate goal for the kids is to make the NBA , but before there was no one an dones, fans could connect with the players gt to know the kids - -today not so much, it’s making it harder to pull for the sport -everything has to be about Money , Money , Money
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Imagine there is great value in those all-american level college players that are not NBA prospects might be the most sought after guys. You can get multiple years on elite level players.
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So - Udeh’s decision to leave right before the deadline ….is it because we’re getting Mgbako on Friday?
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@nuleafjhawk oh man then don’t ask about football recruiting where we have 100+ total official and unofficial visitors and their families many weekends
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@nuleafjhawk said in Bye Bye Ernest:
The more I think about this, the pisseder off I get.
I have a hard time getting as upset about all this as you are, but I still nominate this sentence for PHOF!
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@wissox yeah, he’s a big man transfer from North Dakota State. In the draft now, but if he pulls out KU will be a player. 6’11 235, has a lot of skill. Was their leading scorer, rebounder, shot blocker, and assist man last year. Profiles as a 4 or 5
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@jayballer67 said in Bye Bye Ernest:
@patoh3 said in Bye Bye Ernest:
@jayballer67 I totally agree that this could bite KU in the ass in the future. Hopefully not, but I will not be surprised. Recruiting over what you already have and not allowing growing pains with the younger bigs or any player for that matter will bring hesitation to any HS recruit and his family. The IARP and now this could hurt recruiting for years to come unless the player is more interested about money than playing basketball. And unless there is a clause within the NIL that states that maximum payment is based upon effort/performance, then there is no guarantee that the players will perform to their potential.
Obviously, I don’t know much about how NIL works, so if I am wrong about that, then let me know.The NIl is turning College sports into a big free Agency. - Hunter stated in an article that NIL was an increase in his pay---- over Michigan, saying that there was nobody in the room would not take a 10,000 dollar increase. - It’s all about the biggest bidder. you can say what you want but bottom line is now - - It’s not about a School , it’s not about a Coach - -it’s all about the money. I saw a post sometime back about how now all College players is just farm system , kids getting money off the NIL & it’s only going to continue to get worse - -Amateur as we knew it will no longer exists, the fun is being taken out of the game , the days of kids playing ball for the love of the game-- -is gone. It’s for sure more of a business now then in the pat.
Sure the ultimate goal for the kids is to make the NBA , but before there was no one an dones, fans could connect with the players gt to know the kids - -today not so much, it’s making it harder to pull for the sport -everything has to be about Money , Money , Money
At the same time, fans demand more amenities, better tv production, the best coaches. All that takes more revenue. Stands to reason that getting the best players (which has NEVER been free) was next.
Hard to be that upset about it when coaches bolt for the next big thing in the middle of the night and leave their players behind. If loyalty was a big thing, many folks would’ve quit following the sport years ago.
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Lets see how this feels for a year and if it sucks, lets find a constructive way to complain. I just dont see it being unsuccessful. I can see it being less interesting. Want kids I care about. Some of these freshmen better be cool and stick around.
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I’m all for a NIL salary cap. Even though it’s not really in the best interest of Kansas basketball in particular.
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On the flipside is it so bad to root for people and less exclusively for places? Next year we might have to register globalbuckets.com and migrate the board
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@approxinfinity that’s today’s NBA!
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The good news here is it likely means Hunter’s plan is to stay for two years. It sucks less when you think of it as trading 3 years of Udeh for 2 of Hunter.
