K-St Game Thread
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@FarmerJayhawk there won’t be but everyone knows including Bill who’s said it
There’s a reason the minutes flipped big 12 title and most of ncaa games
Either way 5-1 through 6 games if we finished 15-3 we’d win outright but tougher games ahead than the first 6
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Lots to learn from this game. Shot pretty poorly and still forced overtime. Coulda Shoulda. Whatever. Most importantly, get better after this loss.
And I really tried to not say it, but it has to be said: 1) holy crap the officiating was atrocious and completely selective; 2) listening to Fran almost made me barf tonight.
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@bskeet I haven’t wanted to hear from Fran for a very long time. Since his boy was at OU pretty much. Everything against KU as much as it can be possibly be since then. Id love to be face to face just to bitch slap him. Yes. It has been that bad
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@kuballin10 then there will be one by every other name up there with a natty. Very weird hang up.
13 wins gets the title. We’ll get there.
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Someone is making mid season enemies again at the bucket.
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That last play was broke. Ball was suppose to be passed to Wilson, from the inbounds. Anybody watch postgame.
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Self wanted the TO before Wilson even had it. Maybe not a big screw up https://twitter.com/kflaherty247/status/1615567672699244546?s=46&t=1KWV82X8eajxy0QxTZyeeg
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Eff. Stupid sheep lovers.
Had to watch the game late tonight. So many opportunities to win that game, just crapped away by so many reasons. We could have, and should have won that game, at the end of regulation.
A few incredibly bad decisions were costly for sure:
– DaJuan attempting to pass it to Zuby on the high post. turnover. why? bad.
– Self made two bad timeout decisions. Four seconds on the clock and call a TO??? bad.
– Self (i assume) made a terrible call to try to force an over the top the ball inside to Clemence late. Turnover. Dude’s rarely on the floor in non important moments, let alone important moments. bad.
– The last possession was comical.
I rarely say this, but the referees made some very interesting decisions and non decisions tonight.
Kevin McCullar is BEYOND frustrating. How can you be that bad with your experience?
I knew there was a chance we could lose tonight, but the way we lost leaves a bad taste in the mouth.
I’m not smart enough to now why we really can’t get a shot off most of the time. Wilson, dribble drive, toss up a miracle, get fouled. That’s all we got?
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@Kcmatt7 said in K-St Game Thread:
One thing is certain: We need more from Kevin going forward if we’re winning the conference.
I hope not more of what we saw tonight, and many other nights…
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KJ improving every game
Dick still gets 16, altho it felt like a quiet 16
Jalen goes off, maybe a lil swagger back that looked like it could be missing for a few games
The bench produced 8 points and got some very valuable experience
This game may have done more for us than we can understand at the moment, stay tuned
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@FarmerJayhawk said in K-St Game Thread:
Self wanted the TO before Wilson even had it. Maybe not a big screw up https://twitter.com/kflaherty247/status/1615567672699244546?s=46&t=1KWV82X8eajxy0QxTZyeeg
It is the right decision probably 99% of the time. You’ve floundered for 23 seconds and the ball is still 40 feet from the basket.
Bill is usually one of the best play callers in-game.
The timeout was smart from a coach. Really not worth criticizing him over imo.
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We were not going undefeated in Big 12.
This L, on the road, against a ranked team, in a hostile environment, could be very helpful in the long run.
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@kuballin10 @Jethro or @nuleafjhawk? Oh yeah, the KU fans.
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@Kcmatt7 it’s a great timeout with 23 sec left but a head scratcher with only 5 seconds remaining. Stopping the game with only 5 seconds left allowed the defense to reset and put time pressure on your own offense. Self is a great coach, and even the great ones can make a questionable decisions sometimes.
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K State wants to beat KU so badly year after year. That win last night made their day ( or even the season). I never got that excited after beating KST, us KU fans only think about winning the national championship.
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@BCT said in K-St Game Thread:
@Kcmatt7 it’s a great timeout with 23 sec left but a head scratcher with only 5 seconds remaining. Stopping the game with only 5 seconds left allowed the defense to reset and put time pressure on your own offense. Self is a great coach, and even the great ones can make a questionable decisions sometimes.
I’m not gonna question Coach. He has made WAY TO MANY Correct decisions Actually if it was me I probably would of done the exact same thing. -To easy to try and place blame --There is no way he knew or anyone would know that shot was gonna go in from Jalen.
When it doesn’t turn out the way we like-to easy to pace blame- - got this moronic K/State Old High School friend, he says KU is not a GREAT team - he says Great teams don’t make excuses when they lose to their equal ( DAm didn’t realize we have met our equal- - I just gotta quit drinking so much Diet Coke I guess lol. - -Says Great teams is not about Championships - -they are Champions - now that’s typical K/State way of looking at things.
It’s ok- -we got a return trip coming - - we be here , not going anywhere - just waiting in the Phog
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@Kcmatt7 said in K-St Game Thread:
@FarmerJayhawk said in K-St Game Thread:
Self wanted the TO before Wilson even had it. Maybe not a big screw up https://twitter.com/kflaherty247/status/1615567672699244546?s=46&t=1KWV82X8eajxy0QxTZyeeg
It is the right decision probably 99% of the time. You’ve floundered for 23 seconds and the ball is still 40 feet from the basket.
Bill is usually one of the best play callers in-game.
The timeout was smart from a coach. Really not worth criticizing him over imo.
You and me both. - -Never happen BUT if I were the Coach , I would of probably done the EXACT same thing. Way to easy to try and place blame on one time. - We had many , many, other things that was not good last night that just as easily cost us this game. -If we umm say shot better % from the line - - Shot better from the 3 - - hadn’t turned the ball over so much - -if we had done better then in any of those area’s chances are it wouldn’t of come down to that one possession
Now don’t get this wrong but I DO THINK kinda interesting how THREE of our players got hurt no mattr the degree at different times during the game - -of course K/State didn’t have anything to do with that - -cause no fouls called right ? - Juan , Jalen , KJ- – - THEY GOT MUGGED at one time or another - --no call- BUT thats ok - -were not going anywhee – just sitting waiting in the PHOG for the kittens to come play
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I really think Harris was out of sorts after his major fall. Not saying he was concussed but he sure looked shook. And when he came back he wasn’t able to get the ball where it needed to go consistently like we are used to seeing. Part of that is having 3 30 minute a game guys on the bench fouled out, part of it is good pressure from KSU, and part of it has to be he just wasn’t at 100%.
This team doesn’t have a guy who can really create for himself. Even JWill needs a little bit of a set or motion when in the half court in order to get the ball to somewhere we can score. But neither did last year’s team and that worked out ok. I would be shocked if we have 3 starters foul out of another game this season.
And even with all of the struggles this team had (definitely hoping this one goes into that section of games where you played bad category) we had every opportunity to win. Make one more 3, make 2 more free throws, get one more stop. Any of those lead to a win.
Before the season I was hoping this team would be good enough to get a decent seed in the tourney, challenge for the big 12 title and maybe make a sweet 16/elite 8 type run. All they’ve done so far is show me those hopes are really more like expectations now and the hope is really for the repeat (not something I saw as a possibility before the year).
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@benshawks08 said in K-St Game Thread:
I really think Harris was out of sorts after his major fall. Not saying he was concussed but he sure looked shook. And when he came back he wasn’t able to get the ball where it needed to go consistently like we are used to seeing. Part of that is having 3 30 minute a game guys on the bench fouled out, part of it is good pressure from KSU, and part of it has to be he just wasn’t at 100%.
This team doesn’t have a guy who can really create for himself. Even JWill needs a little bit of a set or motion when in the half court in order to get the ball to somewhere we can score. But neither did last year’s team and that worked out ok. I would be shocked if we have 3 starters foul out of another game this season.
And even with all of the struggles this team had (definitely hoping this one goes into that section of games where you played bad category) we had every opportunity to win. Make one more 3, make 2 more free throws, get one more stop. Any of those lead to a win.
Before the season I was hoping this team would be good enough to get a decent seed in the tourney, challenge for the big 12 title and maybe make a sweet 16/elite 8 type run. All they’ve done so far is show me those hopes are really more like expectations now and the hope is really for the repeat (not something I saw as a possibility before the year).
Well as crazy as it sounds - there are A LOT and I mean A LOT of sports folks that think KU has a very legit shot to repeat as Champions- I think i like the sound of that. Now is it gonna happen, well we need for a couple of things to happen. The BIGGEST THING is we have JUST GOT TO GET SOMETHING out of our bench/bigs to make that possible- another I think some how some way MJ has got to see the floor
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Juan made a perfect pass to clemence, who made the nice catch but! turned and put the ball DOWN and was stripped. We probably all figured he couldn’t get all those three things right. But he did just score before that. I don’t think it was Juan’s fault and that’s what he’s suppose to do. Now in the end of regulation, what the heck was Zuby doing so high and so close to Juan? Nothing good was coming out of that! Why would we have him in just to reverse the ball? The best we had? Catch and pass. Jank could do it. Looked like jr hi boys.
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Post game Self said Bobby was suppose to pass to Wilson. That’s it.
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@Crimsonorblue22 You could even see Dejuan look at Zach and think, “this is the ‘right’ pass but it feels wrong” and then decide just to throw it in there anyway.
My big takeaway is that our starters are very important to the success of this team. That’s basically always true but might mean this team has a thinner margin for error than others.
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Maybe he’ll get it right next time, or they dang sure better work on it. Broom works pretty good
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Someone said KSU is Dusty Donkleman. I have no idea who that is, but balderdash style - Dusty Dinkleman is Peter Dinklage’s stage name in the 80s when he was shooting porn under the Italian Stallions guidance.
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@dylans you serious, Clark?
ha! Well done.
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Can this be true? The much ballyhooed octagon of doom had an attendance of 11,000 last night. Capacity listed for the O of Dumb is 12,528. Biggest game in years and they can’t sell it out? I didn’t hear Fran mention it wasn’t a sellout.
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TOPEKA, Kan. (WIBW) - Kansas State men’s basketball head coach Jerome Tang and the Kansas State High School Activities Association (KSHSAA) are encouraging more sportsmanship from fans after expletive chants echoed Bramlage Coliseum during Tuesday’s game between KU and K-State.
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Can’t believe kshsaa would be involved.
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The worst call (no-call) of the game was with 2:47 and a tie game. Tomlin drove on Grady and pushed him back with an elbow in his chest hard enough to knock Grady on his butt. No call. Tomlin got the layup. Completely inexcusable in my opinion.
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@Crimsonorblue22 said in K-St Game Thread:
Can’t believe kshsaa would be involved.
Maybe high schoolers out there in the hinterlands are chanting FKU too
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@Crimsonorblue22 I know they use Bramlage for state tournaments (or at least they used to.) Maybe that contract could be in jeopardy?
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@dylans Dusty Dinkleman - from the movie Just Friends with Ryan Reynolds, Amy Smart and Anna Farris. He was a loser in High School who got a good job and much better looking, but was still a loser. Dusty Dinkleman
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Ugh that one was awful. There’s about 4 or 5 that really baffled me on re-watch of this game. Gradey was given no favors in this one.
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Some stuff from Self’s presser yesterday:
Takes responsibility for the timeout before Jalen’s shot, late game management where KU didn’t get a shot off in regulation or OT at end.
Udeh had his wisdom teeth removed last week.
MJ isn’t “whole”. Mentions MJ has said he has gotten to halftime some games and said he cannot go.
Loves Kevin and what he’s brought and expects to see him play better. Mentioned he needs to get a bit better at forgetting about missed shots. Brought Jalen into the conversation mentioning how he never remembers a miss.
Talked about Harris- mentions him getting warn down, hit head hard (lucky not to have concussion), missed 3’s he can make, few mistakes from being tired. Mentioned he guarded Nowell to season low in points. No concern.
Talked about Jalen- he played great. Mentioned Jalen saying the loss meant nothing and likes how Jalen’s mindset was already moving forward. Mentioned Jalen played all 45 minutes and played his best defense in overtime.
Ideal bench rotation- 2 guards and a big. 7/8 deep is what he likes to use.
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Caught that, too. It was spot on. Everything except him trying to take a punch for the team by blaming himself for the timeout. At the time he started to signal the TO Jalen wasn’t shooting yet and at that moment our team needed the structure of a play. Had JWil missed the shot, everyone would have been saying “thank God” Self called it.
I’ve been vibing in for quite a while that MJ isn’t whole. Think it’s back spasms that come and go and will be with him through the remaining part of the season.
Spot on about Kevin remembering shots. Kevin is thinking too much instead of just playing with a free consciousness. The perfect example of who to mimic is JWil. He’s as good as any Jayhawk we have ever had about playing in the moment and being free. Really love that about him and we are getting a plus on our results because of that.
I think we need to consider Harris’ minutes down the stretch of this season and try (whenever possible) to give him rest, both in games and other times.
I’m really bummed about MJ and hope I’m wrong. I viewed him as our “late Remy surprise” going down the stretch of this season and into March.
Would be a big help if one big started “getting it”… not sure if it will happen. First… they are all so different from KJ and the other 4 players are used to KJ exploiting his speed and strength. Guess that says more about how valuable KJ has become over the season so far.
I still think this team has another gear to hit. Just not sure if we will be fresh enough down the stretch to kick into it. Some things we just don’t know until we are there. What happens if we drop several upcoming games, including maybe a blowout? Suddenly the Jayhawk Nation questions the quality of this team… suddenly we have a chip! How will they react?
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@BeddieKU23 I saw that same thing. MJ remains a mystery. I still think there is more then then what we are hearing. All I know mercy he could sure help us - - not sure but would almost bet his practice habits are really bad , sure some injuries but with what I was hearing and reading before he ever stepped foot on Campus think it might be more of him thinking entitled to minutes without actually putting in the work to earn those minutes. -I just think MJ is gone at the end of the year.
Udeh is another story - -again we could sure just that big. I think Zuby and Udeh could really really help. Just slow in adapting & development I think- - we need something though. these 5 starters are just lat ass gonna be worn out come tourney time if we don’t
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MJ definitely came in with some issues above the neck, but he’s really bought in now. He just hasn’t been able to get on the practice floor consistently enough. Sometimes Occam’s razor applies.
Oof, rough for Udeh. Had that done in high school, was not super fun for a week or so.
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I think we have this preconceived notion from MJ’s recruitment that he wouldn’t buy in. We haven’t seen any sign of that here and every chance he’s gotten to say something he’s said the right things. If it’s just injuries, then it’s bad luck, sort of like Bobby last year. I have no idea what he will do after the season but man he has to see the improvements guys make after a year here & trust in patience and the process. Plus all the guys playing in front of him right now probably won’t be here next season which only adds to getting healthy, getting that mind set ready to be a dude next season. If he doesn’t want in on that, byeeeeeeeeeeeee.
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@BeddieKU23 said in K-St Game Thread:
I think we have this preconceived notion from MJ’s recruitment that he wouldn’t buy in. We haven’t seen any sign of that here and every chance he’s gotten to say something he’s said the right things. If it’s just injuries, then it’s bad luck, sort of like Bobby last year. I have no idea what he will do after the season but man he has to see the improvements guys make after a year here and all the guys playing in front of him right now probably won’t be here next season which only adds to getting healthy, getting that mind set ready to be a dude next season. If he doesn’t want in on that, byeeeeeeeeeeeee.
Pretty good points bud-- HOPE he sticks I dunno. Yet like you said if he goes - - he goes. We were fine BEFORE he got here & we will be fine AFTER he leaves here , still could use him this year. You read the article the minutes between him and Udeh since Big 12 started is pitiful Udeh is just one possession and what it say MJ’s is at 4 minutes ? - -That’s not good
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@FarmerJayhawk said in K-St Game Thread:
MJ definitely came in with some issues above the neck, but he’s really bought in now. He just hasn’t been able to get on the practice floor consistently enough. Sometimes Occam’s razor applies.
Oof, rough for Udeh. Had that done in high school, was not super fun for a week or so.
ya been there done that. - - - Many , many years ago. - -So far back in time that when I went in they actually had me in the hospital to do procedure. First spent a week getting the infection out of my gums - -then went in the hospital had 4 impacted Wisdom teeth taken out & 4 others at the same time–for sure not good times
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We’ve always known Self to take responsibility whether he needs to or not.
The timeout before Jalen’s shot is a typical spot for any coach to call TO and regroup. I will say that in some other situations this year Self has let them play when he’s had the opportunity to call timeout. Jalen was having a career night and the shot he got off after the timeout was significantly worse than the one, he was lining up to can. Guys were tired and execution wasn’t at its sharpest point.
Kevin needs to step it up on offense and his decision making. He hasn’t been normal since the Tech game.
I don’t know how we spell Harris more minutes without a drop off at PG. I love Bobby but he’s not giving the team enough in his minutes lately from a production standpoint. A lot of zeros across his stat sheet. Looking a lot like Juan was his redshirt freshman year, not confident or aggressive enough in just making plays. Even though he’s cemented in the lineup I still think he’s playing to not make mistakes instead of playing to the best of his abilities.
Zach is back to getting some burn. Some good, some bad. That’s how every backup big is right now. They are certainly not Mitch from a year ago. We miss him dearly off the bench…
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A lot of Juan’s mistakes are the passes he makes to the starters but they’re going to clemence and Zuby. What do you do? Gotta get the bench stronger and smarter! Gotta be able to make those plays!
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Yeah they are not getting minutes and it’s unfortunate but the minutes crunch has happened and they are on the wrong side of it. I hope they both stick around and continue to grind at it because they are much bigger pieces to this team next year if they do.
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@drgnslayr said in K-St Game Thread:
Caught that, too. It was spot on. Everything except him trying to take a punch for the team by blaming himself for the timeout. At the time he started to signal the TO Jalen wasn’t shooting yet and at that moment our team needed the structure of a play. Had JWil missed the shot, everyone would have been saying “thank God” Self called it.
I’ve been vibing in for quite a while that MJ isn’t whole. Think it’s back spasms that come and go and will be with him through the remaining part of the season.
Spot on about Kevin remembering shots. Kevin is thinking too much instead of just playing with a free consciousness. The perfect example of who to mimic is JWil. He’s as good as any Jayhawk we have ever had about playing in the moment and being free. Really love that about him and we are getting a plus on our results because of that.
I think we need to consider Harris’ minutes down the stretch of this season and try (whenever possible) to give him rest, both in games and other times.
I’m really bummed about MJ and hope I’m wrong. I viewed him as our “late Remy surprise” going down the stretch of this season and into March.
Would be a big help if one big started “getting it”… not sure if it will happen. First… they are all so different from KJ and the other 4 players are used to KJ exploiting his speed and strength. Guess that says more about how valuable KJ has become over the season so far.
I still think this team has another gear to hit. Just not sure if we will be fresh enough down the stretch to kick into it. Some things we just don’t know until we are there. What happens if we drop several upcoming games, including maybe a blowout? Suddenly the Jayhawk Nation questions the quality of this team… suddenly we have a chip! How will they react?
We were 6 for 29 from 3. We missed 10 free throws. 3 starters fouled out. We were down double digits. We end up losing by 1 on the road against the best Silo team since Jacob Pullen, Beasley and company.
My chief concern is playing starters too many minutes, and wearing our guys down. We don’t get easy buckets at all. We don’t want to play fast, so we end up in these grinders that suck the life out of a team. Joe has got to get more minutes. Same with Bobby. Zuby has got to get up to snuff.
Gradey was completely gassed, and was leaving lots of shots short. Kevin is in the mindzone, where the thinker is stopping the do’er. KJ was simply a revelation the first half, and Jalen had his best day ever as a jayhawk, imo.
Juan is not letting the game come to him and is pressing with mistakes he doesn’t usually make. He was gassed and injured after the fall, and played like it. Free your mind, Juan. We know how good you are. Just go have fun again.
TCU is going to let us run and we should be able to score easier. Of course, so will they. We’ve had good luck against running teams ( Misery comes to mind), so it should be a fun game. Would love to see Kev and Juan just relax and play ball the way we know they can. Like you said, we certainly haven’t played our best game yet.
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Yeah they are a top transition team. West Virginia held them in check and won because of it.
Last year TCU played us really tough and those guys are all back again. We have to hit shots because they have dudes. Miller is going to try and slow Wilson down much like Hill did for OU. Hopefully Jalen wins that match-up.
Harris has a tougher match-up then Nowell was in Miles who has played well against KU his entire career it feels like. Another key matchup
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I put off getting my wisdom teeth out for 20 years
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I never had wisdom teeth, my brother had 2 sets
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@approxinfinity your mom gave him yours, lol!
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Spot on!
Better games ahead, even though we will truly be challenged by tough competition… right off… I’m thinking of TCU. Very capable team. A tough out.
Our tough schedule will definitely prepare us for March. I just hope we don’t get banged up too much and can be rested enough for the big tourney.
You are right on mentioning our guys need to be rested more. It’s a tough call for Self… trying to win games without damaging our guys moving forward.
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You all should know from my posts… my wisdom teeth are long gone! lol
