2021-22 PER's & Stats



  • @FarmerJayhawk said in 2021-22 PER's & Stats:

    Guys I’m imaging Marcus starting at the 2 for this squad and now I’m sad

    As much as I love Garrett, and was singing his praises long before most here came around on him, Garrett would make this offense really bad, even playing off the ball. Remy and his ability to score the ball was the missing ingredient for this team on offense and with Garrett, the offense would still have a lot issues with the ball sticking and going stagnant for long stretches.

    Obviously there’s a drop off defensively with Remy, but once Remy gets acclimated, I do believe this is going to be one of the best offenses Self’s had at KU.



  • Here’s the issue with using PER to justify who should or shouldn’t play, it’s an offensive statistic that doesn’t account for a player’s defensive abilities. This is why Marcus Garrett never had a great PER because he was never a great offensive player.

    Dejuan Harris is in this same category. Because Harris isn’t a guy who looks to score first, that hurts his PER number. Harris is the team’s best defensive player though so he absolutely makes up for his lack of scoring with his defensive abilities just like Garrett did.

    Bobby Pettiford is going to be a really good player for Kansas, but as a PG, he’s not there yet because it takes time and reps to learn and efficiently run Self’s system. When Devon Dotson was forced to run the show as a freshman, it was rough at times because of him not quite having the system figured out. Pettiford would be in a similar situation, so him coming off the bench in limited minutes allows Self to maximize where Pettiford is at right now.

    As for the Braun/JCL debate, it really should be situational because if KU needs it’s best defense on the floor, that’ll include JCL, but not Braun. As for the offensive end of the floor, I’d say go with the hot hand and if both are hot, play them both together to maximize that situation.

    With the Mitch/Clemence debate, it’s all about defense there with Self trusting Mitch on defense much more than Clemence. Clemence is no doubt the better offensive player, but his defense is still really bad based on his limited minutes so far and was always the much bigger question with him about his overall ability. With Mitch, we know what we’re going to get from him when he’s in.



  • @jayballer67 said in 2021-22 PER's & Stats:

    @Marco said in 2021-22 PER's & Stats:

    @jayballer67 said in 2021-22 PER's & Stats:

    @Marco said in 2021-22 PER's & Stats:

    Btw, I agree with many on this site, Clemence needs to play more. That’s why I was not a big fan of Mitch coming back. Bill is loyal, sometimes to a fault. Which is what was being implied on another topic post. Would I want another Coach? Hell no. But it is what it is, Mitch is not a big minute rotation piece…

    He should be riding the pine, being a cheerleader. Yeah, he’ll make a play occasionally, but he’s been here six years! He’s never been a player that you can consistently rely on.

    I love that he bleeds Jayhawk, but come on…

    Come on is right man. KU has never recruited Mitch to be a big contribution. They knew what they were getting when they recruited him, not EVERYONE can be those Mega Studs a point a minute. What Dave does is the things that your Mega Studs don’t want to be bothered with , the charge -the block - -the loose ball - -setting the screens . Thank GOD the Staff realizes that While your studs or for the most part - -all they are concerned about is get me the ball so I can do y thing. Mitch knows he has no future in the NBA - -I’m quite sure he realized that some time ago

    Teams - - -Including KU need the Mitch’ s of the Basketball world REAL SCRAPPERS - Thank God Coach knows that , there is more to the game then just scoring and looking flashy. - - The minutes he DOES get is just fine , people who can’t understand that then just don’t understand the complete picture of the game

    Stop! Enough with the floor burn, loyalty crap. He should hardly be in the rotation. Good god, you don’t think that Clemence and Adams - and what about Wilson, he’ll be back soon - need to play? A block here, a point there, I mean really? You bring up Jerod, I liked me some Haas. Mitch is not Haas, in any lifetime.

    I’ll take it a step further. I’d take Jamari Traylor over Mitch any day of the week. Not trying to be disrespectful to you @jayballer67 but come on. For this team to reach its potential not only this year but next, he needs to be a cheerleader sooner rather than later. Same reason that I wanted Marcus to leave, I wanted Mitch too as well.

    LOL you wanted Marcus to leave ? - - ok that’s all I need to hear that’s funny Marcus meant so much to this team - - Ya a block here and a point there dam straight maynard , everyone has a job to do on this roster and Mitch does his quite well. Like you said to me - no disrespect BUT I think I’ll have a lil - - just a lil more feel of what Coach Self is doing then somebody like yourself. - I mean a College hal of fame Coach making those kind of decisions EVERY DAY. Do you actually think he is going to continue to play Mitch period if he is hurting this team - -umm no he wouldn’t. Nobody on this site says Mitch plays 20 minutes a game Mitch even knows that but for the back up spot duty Mitch is more - -much more then competent then to do that.

    Plus where in the holy hell did you see me say ANYTHING anything at all in any of this conversation about Clemence and Adams NOT playing - -please point that out to me I must of went comotose for a fe minutes. - Like I said I think I kind of favor Coach’s reasoning decision making just a teensy bit mor then yours - looks like he is doing just fine.

    Yes, I wanted Marcus to leave after last year. We got Remi and Pettiford, Joseph - I’ll take that over Marcus any day of the week. And that’s not disrespecting Marcus, just the way it is. It was time for him to move on. Mitch should have too.



  • @Crimsonorblue22 said in 2021-22 PER's & Stats:

    Marcus leave? 🤬 DPOY are you nuts? His D got him a job in the nba

    Marcus - had he returned - would’ve hurt the team. Simple as that. He needed to leave. I wish him well in the NBA. I like Marcus, but his skillset would not be good for this year’s team.



  • @FarmerJayhawk said in 2021-22 PER's & Stats:

    Guys I’m imaging Marcus starting at the 2 for this squad and now I’m sad

    Thank you!



  • @Texas-Hawk-10 said in 2021-22 PER's & Stats:

    @FarmerJayhawk said in 2021-22 PER's & Stats:

    Guys I’m imaging Marcus starting at the 2 for this squad and now I’m sad

    As much as I love Garrett, and was singing his praises long before most here came around on him, Garrett would make this offense really bad, even playing off the ball. Remy and his ability to score the ball was the missing ingredient for this team on offense and with Garrett, the offense would still have a lot issues with the ball sticking and going stagnant for long stretches.

    Obviously there’s a drop off defensively with Remy, but once Remy gets acclimated, I do believe this is going to be one of the best offenses Self’s had at KU.

    Thank you too!



  • @Marco said in 2021-22 PER's & Stats:

    @FarmerJayhawk said in 2021-22 PER's & Stats:

    Guys I’m imaging Marcus starting at the 2 for this squad and now I’m sad

    Thank you!

    As in getting the Big 12 leader in assists and DPOY back to play the 2. Ugh we’d be terrific. I think Remy and Garrett would be terrific complements. That assist% of 25 😩

    Ah well. I like Juan too



  • @Texas-Hawk-10 said in 2021-22 PER's & Stats:

    @FarmerJayhawk said in 2021-22 PER's & Stats:

    Guys I’m imaging Marcus starting at the 2 for this squad and now I’m sad

    As much as I love Garrett, and was singing his praises long before most here came around on him, Garrett would make this offense really bad, even playing off the ball. Remy and his ability to score the ball was the missing ingredient for this team on offense and with Garrett, the offense would still have a lot issues with the ball sticking and going stagnant for long stretches.

    Obviously there’s a drop off defensively with Remy, but once Remy gets acclimated, I do believe this is going to be one of the best offenses Self’s had at KU.

    I was thinking Remy at the 1, Garrett at the 2. Garrett and Dotson worked well. Garrett is a very good facilitator and tbh is just a better Juan in a lot of respects. Oh well. A guy can dream. Marcus made the right decision for himself and I respect that.



  • @FarmerJayhawk said in 2021-22 PER's & Stats:

    @Texas-Hawk-10 said in 2021-22 PER's & Stats:

    @FarmerJayhawk said in 2021-22 PER's & Stats:

    Guys I’m imaging Marcus starting at the 2 for this squad and now I’m sad

    As much as I love Garrett, and was singing his praises long before most here came around on him, Garrett would make this offense really bad, even playing off the ball. Remy and his ability to score the ball was the missing ingredient for this team on offense and with Garrett, the offense would still have a lot issues with the ball sticking and going stagnant for long stretches.

    Obviously there’s a drop off defensively with Remy, but once Remy gets acclimated, I do believe this is going to be one of the best offenses Self’s had at KU.

    I was thinking Remy at the 1, Garrett at the 2. Garrett and Dotson worked well. Garrett is a very good facilitator and tbh is just a better Juan in a lot of respects. Oh well. A guy can dream. Marcus made the right decision for himself and I respect that.

    I respect his decision bigtime, and wish him well. My observation? Great defensive player obviously, and he was a great asset to our team, but he isn’t a point guard (the offense stalls), nor is he really skilled enough to be a two. He isn’t going to stick in the NBA, overseas bound. There, I said it, now I’m done.



  • So much digital ink arguing over playing time after 2 games with one of our starters suspended.

    Y’all should have gone to Law School and gotten paid to quibble!





  • Anyway, play Clemence more Bill, please. Clemence and Adams once Jalen comes back to play his about 22 mpg are more than capable to play backup roles at both the 5 and 4, depending on the situation.



  • @mayjay

    Better then arguing and quibbling about the 65 Level 1 violations hanging over our head…



  • PER is definitely more of a measure of how well someone plays offense. It’s not the end-all, its certainly helpful in quantifying how well/bad/average someone is playing on that side of the ball. Helps put the eye test to numbers



  • @Marco said in 2021-22 PER's & Stats:

    @jayballer67 said in 2021-22 PER's & Stats:

    @Marco said in 2021-22 PER's & Stats:

    @jayballer67 said in 2021-22 PER's & Stats:

    @Marco said in 2021-22 PER's & Stats:

    Btw, I agree with many on this site, Clemence needs to play more. That’s why I was not a big fan of Mitch coming back. Bill is loyal, sometimes to a fault. Which is what was being implied on another topic post. Would I want another Coach? Hell no. But it is what it is, Mitch is not a big minute rotation piece…

    He should be riding the pine, being a cheerleader. Yeah, he’ll make a play occasionally, but he’s been here six years! He’s never been a player that you can consistently rely on.

    I love that he bleeds Jayhawk, but come on…

    Come on is right man. KU has never recruited Mitch to be a big contribution. They knew what they were getting when they recruited him, not EVERYONE can be those Mega Studs a point a minute. What Dave does is the things that your Mega Studs don’t want to be bothered with , the charge -the block - -the loose ball - -setting the screens . Thank GOD the Staff realizes that While your studs or for the most part - -all they are concerned about is get me the ball so I can do y thing. Mitch knows he has no future in the NBA - -I’m quite sure he realized that some time ago

    Teams - - -Including KU need the Mitch’ s of the Basketball world REAL SCRAPPERS - Thank God Coach knows that , there is more to the game then just scoring and looking flashy. - - The minutes he DOES get is just fine , people who can’t understand that then just don’t understand the complete picture of the game

    Stop! Enough with the floor burn, loyalty crap. He should hardly be in the rotation. Good god, you don’t think that Clemence and Adams - and what about Wilson, he’ll be back soon - need to play? A block here, a point there, I mean really? You bring up Jerod, I liked me some Haas. Mitch is not Haas, in any lifetime.

    I’ll take it a step further. I’d take Jamari Traylor over Mitch any day of the week. Not trying to be disrespectful to you @jayballer67 but come on. For this team to reach its potential not only this year but next, he needs to be a cheerleader sooner rather than later. Same reason that I wanted Marcus to leave, I wanted Mitch too as well.

    LOL you wanted Marcus to leave ? - - ok that’s all I need to hear that’s funny Marcus meant so much to this team - - Ya a block here and a point there dam straight maynard , everyone has a job to do on this roster and Mitch does his quite well. Like you said to me - no disrespect BUT I think I’ll have a lil - - just a lil more feel of what Coach Self is doing then somebody like yourself. - I mean a College hal of fame Coach making those kind of decisions EVERY DAY. Do you actually think he is going to continue to play Mitch period if he is hurting this team - -umm no he wouldn’t. Nobody on this site says Mitch plays 20 minutes a game Mitch even knows that but for the back up spot duty Mitch is more - -much more then competent then to do that.

    Plus where in the holy hell did you see me say ANYTHING anything at all in any of this conversation about Clemence and Adams NOT playing - -please point that out to me I must of went comotose for a fe minutes. - Like I said I think I kind of favor Coach’s reasoning decision making just a teensy bit mor then yours - looks like he is doing just fine.

    Yes, I wanted Marcus to leave after last year. We got Remi and Pettiford, Joseph - I’ll take that over Marcus any day of the week. And that’s not disrespecting Marcus, just the way it is. It was time for him to move on. Mitch should have too.

    LOL ya you know it buddy. You hang on to your thoughts you gonna be ok. They are your believes - -don’t agree 1 % with them BUT there yours - - good for you we could go back and forth on this all day - all year but NOPE not me.- -ROCK CHALK



  • I was expecting low numbers from Dave… it’s early in the year and also we have a new PG situation and we are not tweaked for in-post feeds yet.

    Jalen coming back might influence his #s, too… in either direction… depending on how Jalen plays his game.

    If this was last year, I’d state how I think Dave’s numbers will climb later on. Not so sure this year. Really matters how this team plays. Self will go for whatever works to add more points (or defend more points).

    Have to say I am a bit disappointed… thought Dave would come back with more foot speed… both in lateral movement and full court speed. His lack of foot speed is a definite Achilles’ heel with this team!



  • Very early for advanced stats but always fun.

    I will say the biggest thing to me this year is simply…having a bench at all. Regardless of who people think should start or how Self is using it the options this year are much better than TGF, Bryce, Tristan etc



  • I still think Bryce is/will be good. Must be mental? Could be his dad.



  • Remember - stopping a guy from scoring IS THE SAME AS SCORING. I’ll repeat that. STOPPING A BUCKET EQUALS SCORING ONE. how many games did Garrett hold the best opposing scorer to a paltry few baskets?? thats the same as scoring those points. And yes Marcus would have been on the floor this year for very good reason despite who we have now.

    Next few games really watch what Mitch does away from the ball. ESPN replays all their game on demand so one can rewatch multiple times and concentrate on any given single player.



  • I’d take Marcus on this year’s team in a second. He could have gone back to being a junkyard dog wing. That said, great decision for him to start getting regular checks.



  • @BShark said in 2021-22 PER's & Stats:

    I’d take Marcus on this year’s team in a second. He could have gone back to being a junkyard dog wing. That said, great decision for him to start getting regular checks.

    I respect your opinion, as always. Just don’t think that Marcus would have fit in well with this year’s team, is all. In fact, had he returned, we probably wouldn’t even have a couple of guards that are now in fold. That’s all I was saying. Was not trying to imply that Marcus isn’t a player.



  • Updated Point Totals after Stony Brook win!

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    Updated PER’s

    Buy Zach stock now, I bought it last year!~

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  • KU now #2 per Kenpom, #4 O, #7D with a 27.48 rating overall



  • @BShark said in 2021-22 PER's & Stats:

    I’d take Marcus on this year’s team in a second. He could have gone back to being a junkyard dog wing. That said, great decision for him to start getting regular checks.

    Had Garrett come back though, KU may not have Remy or Pettiford on the roster which completely changes the outlook of this team because of that.



  • @Texas-Hawk-10 said in 2021-22 PER's & Stats:

    @BShark said in 2021-22 PER's & Stats:

    I’d take Marcus on this year’s team in a second. He could have gone back to being a junkyard dog wing. That said, great decision for him to start getting regular checks.

    Had Garrett come back though, KU may not have Remy or Pettiford on the roster which completely changes the outlook of this team because of that.

    I said the same. Had he returned, I don’t believe that either of them would be playing for us.



  • Updated after the ESPN tourney. Braun a big riser after a really strong 3 game tournament. We need that CB every night.

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    Season Point Totals Updated

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    Kenpom updated. Defense has cratered

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