Brannen Greene
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All very true statements! Just think of how great he could be if he stopped acting like a hot dog and removed his cranium from his anus!
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I guess its hard for me to blindly back Self on this one without knowing exactly what happened. If it was for drugs/alcohol then its justified. If its for getting mouthy with Self over playing time or the way the MSU game was handled then maybe not. Even though it isn’t proper for a player to question his coach, especially in front of the team, he might actually be right and his emotions justified. I can easily imagine him being upset after the game over how the went and he would only need to spend 5 minutes reading the reactions on this message board after the loss and it could have been enough to put him over the top. So maybe its possible that we are indirectly responsible???
Just joking, but not really.
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@wissoxfan83 and I’m saying Barrett’s punishment more than fit the crime seeing as how, by university and NCAA bylaws, OSU wasn’t required to do anything yet they suspended him and negated the summer semester for him.
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@JRyman Is this a tough as crowd or what ? Even Rodney Dangerfield would take a scat outta here!
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@globaljaybird man I tell ya no respect people. No respect.
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Ok, I’ve got to break my self-imposed hiatus from posting since last game for this. I’ve been trying to take in all of the comments and insights. A kind of absorption period.
Anyway, I really wonder what this is all about. Frankly, I don’t care. This demonstrates that he is unreliable. Six games is a big suspension.
If he got mouthy with Self over playing time, as @RockkChalkk referenced, I still don’t care. A player may be right, but a player is a player. The coach is the coach. And it’s not like Greene should be surprised by his marginalization. The whole world knows the deal here.
I agree with @Texas-Hawk-10. I would consider cutting bait right now. Maybe the suspension is a nudge to see if Greene will make the decision.
I hold to my belief that this (Kansas) was a real bad fit for Greene. His skill set (three point shooting) is not appreciated here. His key attribute is a running joke really with our coach. He can’t play above average defense, can’t drive to the hoop, and doesn’t do much else to the level Self prefers. And that’s what really matters if a kid is going to be a big time player here. Do what Self wants. As I suggested back in the spring, he should have transferred. Maybe he transfers at the break. With that, if he sits out all of next season, he could have a full season left. If he wanted to play next season, he’d only have a semester left.
I don’t know, but I see that AW3 scored 18 points the other night vs. Villanova (his third straight game with 18 points). But he couldn’t cut it here. A guy in the top 50.
It is what it is.
All that being said, if I was constructing KU’s starting lineup, Greene would be the starting 3. He’d be a big focus of our offensive efforts. And if teams tried to stop him, we’d scheme to score off those overplays.
I think there are a lot of folks around the game that feel the same way. But, alas, we are dealing with a one track mind at AFH.
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@HighEliteMajor Your second and third paragraphs disagree with your last two. Greene was slow against MSU, SLOW. OSU runs an entire offense trying to get Forte open. Forte has twice the speed and Handles as Greene.
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@wrwlumpy Are you saying because I support the suspension, it contradicts with him being my starting three? I’m sorry, my small brain doesn’t understand the contradiction you are referring to between the paragraphs. Please clarify if you could.
And as an fyi, you can easily create shooting opportunities for guys (even slow ones) with certain plays and screens. How many ball screens did we set for Greene Tuesday, for example, when he had the ball? I don’t know. I’ve boycotted rewatching that game until tonight. Letting blood pressure lower.
A little two man game with a guy like Ellis setting the ball screen would seem just the medicine – at least a handful of times a game. You might get two clean looks out of that. If they switch, you might get a look or two with Ellis to the hoop.
And OSU’s offense is not just trying to get Forte open. It is an element of the offense. Sometimes he is a sheer decoy. But I’m not a fan of running guys around like that at all, like they do with Forte at times. How OSU uses Forte, though, has no bearing on creating open looks for Greene.
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@VailHawk I believe my words, when I saw the headline on B/R were," What The Eff!?"
BG had to do something serious to get 6 games. Cheating on a test, jawing back at a coach, fighting. Anything else would have been a 1-2 game smack. 6 games is a big hit. Kid better keep his head on straight from now on.
We need BG on the court dropping treys!
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@Lulufulu it wouldn’t be fighting.
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I think we should use BG like OSU uses Forte… get him out there and send him running. BG isn’t ever going to rack up more than 20 mpg… he should go out there and expend himself against defense that is already tired. Even if he doesn’t hit 3s, in the least he can waste out the SG or SF guarding him.
That would be a case where stats don’t show the contribution of a player. Of course I would love to see BG go out every game and go 6-for-6. But if he just goes 2-for-2 but wears out a guy or two on the other side, that is helpful, too.
That is a big part of what Forte does. He is one of the best conditioned players in our league. They still run him until he is spent. So in the least, they get him to “take out” someone on the other team, and hopefully nail a few 3s in the process.
I just don’t agree with Self or about any coach in D1 that has depth. If I had depth, I would use it every game. My guys would be trained to run, run, run. Set picks… and run. Wear down opponents. Start in the first half. I want to see the other team with hands on knees half way through the first half. I would run offense geared towards wearing teams down. Lots of picks and constant motion… something we never do now! We never take advantage of our depth. The only good we get out of our depth is to have a backup if someone gets hurt.
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@HighEliteMajor I hope I am wrong, but this could very well be the beginning of the end for BG here. Whatever the reason (and the drug test thing would seem to make the most sense), it seems like in these situations (lack of playing time, suspensions) you often see a player depart. The timing would be bad for him, however. I think you are right… a bad fit here…whether we like or agree with it or not.
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Top 50 players don’t want to sit bench. Especially come junior year. Don’t have a clue what the issue is.
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@KansasComet The Beddie post at the top references the KUAD drug policy…would seem to tie in. You are absolutely correct about top 50 prospects and the bench.
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So was BG with Snacks at the time of the infraction?
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@brooksmd good one!
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We were in Chicago this week…which means Snacks had return to (or near) the scene of the crime!
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Not drugs
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@Jesse-Newell then what?
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Kind of disappointed to hear it wasn’t weed. That seemed the most banal of explanations other than missing study hall or skipping class.
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Come on Jesse!!! First you shut down the best in game blog ever and now you tease us with this!!!
Please give is something!!!
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@Jesse-Newell Waitin on you big guy - you let the genie out…give it up.
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I’m curious what your take is on our slow recruiting start. Are we doomed? Is there an embargo?
Why aren’t the luxury Playboy Mansion apartment suites making elite recruits line up to sign with Kansas?
Why didn’t we sign an elite big for next year? Or… do you think we already have a silent verbal out there for spring signing? Just a few elite bigs left…
Why can’t we sign more elite players in the fall?
Is there any hope for our offense coming around?
We all know the statement:
“Offense wins games, but defense wins championships.”
However… no team has won a championship without scoring points. That last time I checked, points win both games and championships.
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.This seems a little knee jerk to me.
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Father explains Greene’s 6-game suspension due to playing-time dispute .
My bet is he gets reinstated when they return from 808.
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I have been critical of BG in the past & had to remember he’s still a kid. Still immature, but see why BG blew up. He played with injury last season - perhaps trying to prove to Self that he’s tough as Self likes it. His injury was no twisted ankle, but he sucked it up & clenched his teeth thru rehab for the past 5+ months. (10-12 mos for a full recovery?) In BG’s mind, he delivered what Self wanted from him - patience & toughness. Think a 21 yr old expecting a reward for what he went through & overcame - only to find himself warming the bench against MSU. As I said, I’ve been critical of BG, but if I were him, I’d be thinking transfer, a coach that wants his talent & can maximize it. I don’t play basketball so this is all speculation on my end but Self wants BG to drop 3s at his command. Now I play golf & without the warm ups my swing is dangerous, and don’t get into the rytheme until after a few holes. Pros warm up for hours before the first tee. If Self wants BG’s 3s, Self gonna have to figure out how to keep him in the game longer than plugging him in/out for 3 mins - despite his D. It’s hard to watch our 3-pt (parameter?) players develop under Self. His winning percentage comes with human cost.
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Hey HCBS I’m bitching about Mister BG’s Playing time too. Eight Minutes against MSU? What am I banned from watching the next six games KU plays?
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@Hawk8086 I only said playing time because that’s all I am able to see for myself. It appears I was in the ballpark. As for me, I like players that want to play. When Brannen gets on a roll, he can knock down shots and provide momentum swings. Sometimes players just need to see the ball go in the basket. It can get the entire team fired up. A lot of the really good players that we have had, did not always see eye to eye with Coach Self. I am sure this thing will work itself out (no pun intended).
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@Texas-Hawk-10 I would agree and do agree, & if he wasn’t a Junior I would just think he would transfer out, but it would or probably will if it comes to that Coach Self just cutting him out. You are exactly right I talked with several others and all said there are a lot of other coaches if Greene had his 3 suspensions there- - - -he would be out.He has some issues, & I’'say this again he doesn’t get it, he doesn’t grasp the concept that not only is he hurting himself but he is also hurting his team mates. He is letting them down. But you have a few that think it’s time for Coach Self to go roflmfao, these type of guys, - - - - -dam where do you start? Unbelievable, huh DD? You have people who feel that Coach should let the players run the team ya, Ok lets see how that’s working for ya. You allow 1 player to let his mouth over load his ass and do, say nothing whining about playing time, then you’ll have another, then another, then another ya, he definitely has some issues with authority, and like has been said he is a good play NOT GREAT PLAYER but a really good player but unfortunetly has to make some really bad decisions, either way we will be fine with or with our Brannen Greene. ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
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@HawkInMizery HA, you think he can remove it? I dunno he has it buried pretty deep just hope he can still breathe. ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
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@HighEliteMajor I AGREE, and there within lays a huge part of the problem, this kid can’t even come close to playing average defense, and when he does his specality, hitting a three he is to busy trying to show up the other players/team main while back at the ranch his man he is surpose to be guarding and let me emphasize surpose to be is making a killing scoring at will on the other end. You don’t wanna play D your ass is on the bench, instead of being a hot dog, kinda like Curtis Reading use to act like at K-State when he played for them, you see what happened with him OUT, GONE, CYA, BYE BYE ended up at St Johns you wanna play? then play? you wanna make idiot decisions, get stupid, let your brothers on the team down? then move on we will be all right
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My sympathies are with BG. The kid deserves to play and Self was WRONG in giving him only 8 minutes. Again, same old Self. Rigid. Inflexible. Its about time that players question continued poor decisions from the HC.
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The kid’s a junior now, still has the maturity level of a gnat. He and family should have realized long before now that Brannen’s game is just not cut out for a Bill Self system. Fabulous free throw and 3 pt. shooter, but not much else. A bundle of Division 1 coaches would probably gear an entire offense to Brannen’s strengths. Not gonna happen under Bill Self at Kansas. Returning this season was a Greene family mistake. Two years of remaining eligibility at a totally different program might have led to super stardom for Brannen. Now his future looks more dismal. If he transfers he will have only one year of play elsewhere, after sitting a year. His sideline blow-up helps explain the collapse vs. MSU. Bill Self livid and distracted; teammates jolted with doubts. I have gotten a kick out of his demeanor, but this is an ugly twist. A gifted player, but a poor fit at KU. Why drag this out for another year and a half?
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How long and contentious of a tirade must it have been for his parents to be summoned from the stands?
If it were fleeting comments made in the heat of the moment that wouldn’t have happened.
Bad that his mom and dad had to bear witness to it, but kudos to His Dad For handling it the way he has…whether it was said tongue in cheek or not, he basically said if BG had handled it correctly and had kept his mouth shut he’d be in Maui right now.
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@AsadZ Do you really know what transpired in that meeting?
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We have no idea what transpired during the previous meetings or conversations between Greene and Self. How many times have we heard the sideline reporters or whomever is calling the game take 10-15 seconds and report to the viewers that Self describes Greene as the best pure shooter he has ever coached? Riddle me this… how is best pure shooter Self has ever coached struggle to see the court?
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My biggest issue with Greene is his that he does not follow and react to people’s hips and just lets guards dribble right by him. That said, I still prefer him to Wayne Selden because he gives us rebounding and a more reliable trey. Now, maybe Wayne has more “leadership” qualities like being a nice guy, but given the lack of progression by both players, I would rather see Greene on the floor more than Wayne. Put Greene, Vick and Graham as the 3 guards, and I think you have an excellent rotation option as Vick and Greene can balance each other on both ends of the floor.
As far as Self goes, I’m really worried. Last year, I was impressed with how much we bounced back during the regular season, and I attribute that to Self. But we may actually get worse this season without Diallo, despite Ellis looking much quicker. (People are underestimating the impact that Oubre had on this team as a two way threat.)
I disagree with Jessie Newell on the 3 point shooting aspect. The real issue is the apparent lack of freedom with which we play when confronted with something new. We pass around the perimeter on defense and drive right into charges or blocks on offense. The threat of the pass, steal or block are minimal. We look boring and unable to improvise.
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@wissoxfan83 I don’t know exactly but I have an idea. I still blame the coach. The kid deserves to play. He is doing a disservice to KU BB program by his adamant nature. Not letting him go to Maui is a significant penalty, totally unjustified. Greene’s parents should take the matter with the authorities. Its time for Self to go.
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There is a way to go about talking about playing time.
Go into his office, have a personal discussion on what needs to happen to get more playing time. Openly disrespecting the coach in front of players means lack a maturity.
I assume most of you read the book about past players and what they said about their time at KU under Self. Players were open and honest about what went on. Self is not a stranger to managing personalities.
A message had to be sent that HE is the one that manages PT. Be an adult about it. I am all for Self’s suspension.
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@JhawkAlum Coach Self does manage playing time and I think he’s screwing it up. Now more than ever, I attribute our big losses exclusively to him. He recruits players, coaches them up or not, and dictates style of play, and adjusts personnel / strategy to onging developments.
Last years loss to Kenucky was embarrassing, but they were a most talented team with summer playing (like we had this year). This years loss to MSU despite MSU’s ranking is unacceptable. I personally think Coach negligently did not adjust personnel and strategy to close that game. He kept the horses in that weren’t getting the job done. BG frustrated, Hunter M most likely frustrated, and as a fan, I’m frustrated. Seldon’ has played sub-par most of his career here and yet seems immune to accountability.
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@Bwag we are in agreement. Self screwing up PT isn’t the issue but the suspension. It’s going about it in a disrespectful way.
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I actually thought BG played decent in the last game. It seemed like his defense had shown some improvement. I’m not saying it was necessarily good defense, but it looked better. At least he is working on it.
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@RockkChalkk agreed. He’s looked more active.
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@JhawkAlum don’t disagree depending on what happened, which I don’t know. But it IS STILL on Coach Self that he’s creating an atmosphere and team dynamic that pushes players who should be playing to distraction with his irrational approach. Sure the players behavior may dictate the discipline, but when you, as the coach, have gotten to that point with players in the locker room that it comes to having to discipline like this, you’ve lost the war even though as Coach/Leader, you’ll always win the battle because you have all the power.
@HighEliteMajor perfecty laid out the argument against Self’s mis-aligned basketball paradigm in his most recent posting.
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Go back and watch the game. When Greene goes out of the game at 5:56 left in 2nd half he jaws at the coaches while seated. They all seemed to ignore him at the time. Obviously this carried over into the locker room. You just can’t do this as a player. Having said that if I was a shooter who wasn’t the greatest athlete I would opt not to play for Bill Self. He is fine with having a great defender hurt the teams offensive chemistry but would never allow a bad defender to play through. Shooters need more time than he gives to get into the rhythm of the game.
I’m not in the fire Bill Self camp, not even close. I just wish he gave shooters on the team more leash.
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For how long can we continue with this frustration, game after game, season after season, its getting sickening.
The book has been written on Self and the chapters cannot be erased. Time to move on.
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@AsadZ We’ll miss you. Who you gonna cheer for now?
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Why would anyone want Greene gone? I understand the emotion of the loss, the emotion of his suspension but lobbying for him gone, jeez holds your horses guys. If Self thought what transpired deserved being kicked off the team it would have happened. 6 games sends a message especially when you miss the trip to Maui and you miss the opportunities to play better, get better.
Do I think 6 games is too much, maybe but it certainly gives him the final chance to learn from his mistakes. I certainly believe he had a legitimate gripe about his playing time but emotion of the situation got the best of both of them. Neither of them was going to rationally argue about playing time right after that loss. It would have been better had it not happened then, Greene probably avoids a suspension all together.
I’ve been guilty of jumping off the ledge way too fast in the past but we should all be hoping Greene truly learns from this mistake. We really do need him, you can’t replace the shooting he brings and no matter your opinion of him I’d rather have him than not, it would be a huge loss to this team if he doesn’t stick it out, doesn’t learn from his mistakes. Jamari has been suspended every year here as well, its not like he is a lone in having to learn. Sometimes kids are just thickheaded and have to learn through continuous punishment. We shouldn’t give up just yet.
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At least Greene kept it in house and didn’t take it to the media after the MSU loss like the RB from OSU did.
