BYU Thread
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If Hunter doesn’t hit the top of the 3 key the offense is trash. Every defense goes under every screen set for a pg taking away passing lanes leading to zero threes and 4 turnovers
Kj was bad offensively tonight
Trash performance and now we have an extra game in big 12
Glad we leveled up this year but then again you ain’t win crap when ur D2 pg can’t stay in front of his man and won’t shoot the 3
Bill’s made this bed time to lay in it
Called it in December…no remy bail outs
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BYU gave up 93 pts to Okie State…We shot 40%…
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Tough to win when you can’t make 3s or FTs
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BYU just flipped the script. Will this be the moment that pushes KU into that top gear?!? Will this team win some road games now?
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Adams, Furphy, and Timberlake went 10-34 from the field and 1-11 from 3. This was a team loss. Role players didn’t make anything, Dickinson couldn’t make a FT, and defense only showed up for a half.
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@patoh3 - 3 of 15 at the 3 line contributed greatly, too.
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@kuballin10 said in BYU Thread:
If Hunter doesn’t hit the top of the 3 key the offense is trash. Every defense goes under every screen set for a pg taking away passing lanes leading to zero threes and 4 turnovers
Kj was bad offensively tonight
Trash performance and now we have an extra game in big 12
Glad we leveled up this year but then again you ain’t win crap when ur D2 pg can’t stay in front of his man and won’t shoot the 3
Bill’s made this bed time to lay in it
Called it in December…no remy bail outs
Get the hell out of here with that crap. - -We hear nothing out of you the entire night and he you come after like a rabid dog after a cat. you are so infatuated on Juan, buddy this was one hell of alot more then juan dam your crap gets old - -between Juan and your hardon for Remy is sickening. time after time , after time. give it a rest for GOD’S sakes man
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47-33 in the 2nd half…
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3 of 15 from the line… does Doke have any more eligibility? Pretty sure he would make more than that.
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KU was extremely tired tonight. No life in the legs that I could see. No bench and BYU committed a lot of fouls to wear KU down. Sigh…
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I just feel sick, this is one of the biggest let downs in KU basketball history preseason #1 to likely swept by KSU and gone first round in the NCAAs: why can’t we buy better players? Not one of these guy can hit 3s unguarded at 35% clip. What a joke folks
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Can we stop paying those guys? They ain’t holding up there end of the deal. I’m okay at this point if not a soul on this team returns for next season outside furphy.
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@approxinfinity 3 of 15 from the 3 point line.
Hunt was 6 of 15 from the FT line. I don’t remember Doke’s numbers, but I do remember the Hack a Doke b/c of his poor FT shooting, but he made a point of improving upon it. Hunter normally hits more.
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I am sad.
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Anyone else seen the movie Blue Chips when coach Bell throws all their stuff in the middle of floor saying “You don’t deserve a locker room or uniforms, should be playing in your jock straps” all very true with this bunch and I’m hopeful Self is saying similar in our locker room tonight.
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@kuballin10 Congrats! You get prognosticator of the year. Bet you’re proud!
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Go easy on @kuballin10 he’s a 100 percent right regardless of how mad it makes others.
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He’s an idiot
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@kjayhawks said in BYU Thread:
Go easy on @kuballin10 he’s a 100 percent right regardless of how mad it makes others.
no he is really not- - this team is a lot more horribe then just Juan - -and yet he has got it in for him – didn’t hear nothing then jumped o the chance when w lost always same song
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@jayballer67 as @Texas-Hawk-10 said it was a team loss for sure. It’s just sad to see how bad this team is compared to what we thought we had. We all have to survive the down years I suppose. I’m just really worried KSU will mop the floor with us.
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We are a pretty average team without Kevin. But also give BYU credit for shooting about 50% from 3 in the second half. Our 3-pt defense is not elite, but not many teams can shoot at that clip.
Hard to beat a team when they are shooting like that unless you have similar fire power… (which we don’t, although hitting free throws would have made it a much closer game)
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Jeebus, that was disappointing.
Not fun things with the boxscore:
BYU outscored KU in both points off turnovers and 2nd chance points
BYU with a 29-9 bench scoring advantage
BYU outscores KU 47-33 in the 2nd half / this is unbelievable
And the obvious one: BYU with 13 3s, KU with 3
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Couple thoughts on the loss:
— I thought that was one of the worst first halves Dajuan has played. He looked high at times. Asleep. Disinterested. Disoriented.
— There were times I thought we defended the 3 well tonight. Before the game I wondered how many times we’d leave a shooter wide open in the corner by covering a guy in the lane. Got worse as the game progressed. What sense does this defensive philosophy make??? Can somebody with more basketball smarts please explain?
— I wish the post game with Gueldner was unfiltered and R rated. He’d drop F bombs all over the place! Ha.
— O-fer-Furphy tonight. No bueno.
— Timberlake made his usual one. Missed a crap ton. Looks like that fall hurt like hell. Despite his poor shooting night, he generally seemed like he was playing better lately.
— Elmarko simply cannot dribble nor even initiate a simple offensive set. Chaos. People think he’s a PG. I don’t see it. He barely looks playable. We need to recruit a backup PG. (he seems a bit better with dribbling in the open court)
— BYU fer crissakes. Wow.
— ESPN+ — what a bad broadcast. It’s like they don’t even care about quality or production. Sounds we all had audio issues. How hard can that be to fix?
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@bskeet That’s one of my issues with Selfs coaching, we go under screens on shooters so often. Just thinking about Acie Law hitting a 3 in AFH in 2007 to beat us because we went under the screen. Thats something that got hammered in my head in middle school. Last night we left the corner shooters repeatedly and even the gal commentator (don’t remember her name but she was okay) said you can’t be fully in lane off the corners against BYU. To me it’s just common basketball knowledge and we don’t show it. The fundamentals on this team are pure garbage, Juan had multiple turnovers leaving his feet with no where to pass. It’s just not high IQ plays by seasoned veterans. Seniors shouldn’t be making plays like that and should be able to make free throws at 75% or better.
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It is what it is.
This team isn’t going anywhere without Kev and the effort game to game this late in the season is so disappointing. Guys looked gassed after 3 days off and a week prior… BYU shoots the 3 and certainly didn’t guard them well. We continue to miss shots that should go down.
This was a team loss but Hunter let his team down last night. You can’t miss 9 free throws
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@BeddieKU23 I’m gonna ask a Honest question here, is this Bill Selfs worst coaching job? This team has 2 all-Americans likely, 3 draft hopefuls and a Cousy award finalist. In 2019 we had no talent and 2015 we had super young talent. I think this team may end up worse than those 2, tho on paper should beat those teams by 25 points.
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@BeddieKU23 said in BYU Thread:
It is what it is.
This team isn’t going anywhere without Kev and the effort game to game this late in the season is so disappointing. Guys looked gassed after 3 days off and a week prior… BYU shoots the 3 and certainly didn’t guard them well. We continue to miss shots that should go down.
This was a team loss but Hunter let his team down last night. You can’t miss 9 free throws
A lot of this stems from poor play and leadership from the PG position. Its obvious to me and I know its not a popular opinion here, if people step back and take off their Jayhawk tinted glasses its not hard to see. There are intangibles that aren’t measured in stats but show up on how well an offense runs or how energy/effort is contagious to the rest of the team. He is a senior! Come on, have we all lowered our expectations this far to think this is acceptable play from a multiple year starter, Senior PG at Kansas??
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I’m an old timer. Back in the Danny Manning era, I used to tape every game (VHS even). I knew every player, every coach, every stat. I knew our records against all of our so called rivals - I was an obsessed KU basketball junkie. It actually was starting to interfere with my home life.
My home life is fantastic now. I haven’t watched the last 6 or 7 games. Haven’t “taped” a game to watch in years. Actually, my TV does record KU football, basketball and the Chiefs, but I’ve only watched one KU b-ball game that I’ve recorded. Against OU a few weeks back.
I guess I’ve gone from obsessed fanatic to fair weather fan. I like this a lot better. My blood pressure is where it should be most of the time and my wife and I enjoy doing things together or just watching a good movie or show.
I’ll watch the March Madness until we get knocked out in the second round by Arkansas Pine Bluff or someone equally lame.
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@kjayhawks said in BYU Thread:
@jayballer67 as @Texas-Hawk-10 said it was a team loss for sure. It’s just sad to see how bad this team is compared to what we thought we had. We all have to survive the down years I suppose. I’m just really worried KSU will mop the floor with us.
It could happen , do I think it will happen ? - Probably not, but have to agree and again it’s because we have become so spoiled to all the really good teams of the past , were just not use to going through this, and it just amplifies this when we do. -Were just so use to winning , sometimes our expectations are just to high. This team just has to many flaws. – Were not that good of a rebounding team , we are below average three point shooting team, and sure if your two point conversion rate is good , which ours is but that isn’t going to hold up when your making two point shots and the other guys are just killing it from the three.
We turn the ball over to much , we go through long extended periods struggling to score the ball - - just lots of flaws with this team. To me Hunter Dickinson was over hyped , I’ve said from day one he was a bad fit for this team. – Like the word Bill uses at times, I think he is soft, and slow. Either he is naturally slow, OR he just lacks the hustle getting down the floor, now if it was any other player jogging down the floor-- -Bill would yank his ass OUT in a heart beat but he knows he is not in a position to do that with Dickinson. With his big body & frame he should be an absolute beast down low. Sure he gets his share of rebounds but how many does he GO GET ? I mean like I’ve heard , a lot of those rebounds practically fall into his lap, but how many does he just take with aggression like - - -THATS MINE ? demand the rebound.- -His numbers have fallen since conference play- -his FT % has crashed dramatically, shooting 85 % in Non Con to around 68 % in Conference games- - we can’t have that. He has went from a lot of talk for National player of the yr— Big 12 player of the year and he isn’t getting either. Yet it’s not ALL Hunter, our lack of success is a total team failure - -we just don’t have it this year.
Our lack of Bench- - - then we have the Morris screw up that we needed for our go and get it bucket maker, a guy that could get his own shot- - probably our only really true 3 point threat, ya Johhny has done ok , actually better for a freshman and actually a kid that’s not even suppose to be in College for another year.
Just an ugly year for us. Goes to show that even true blue bloods can have an off year, and our opponents are eating this up, cause were down. Bill screwed up this year. I think you can see things that are problems. Point production is down, with our better teams when we got out and run , run , run we were averaging in the upper 70’s per - -this year to many high 60’s to low to MAYBE middle 70’s. This loss last night I’m sure probably dropped us to a 4 maybe 5 seed in the Tourney, but let’s be realistic, unless things change , and change quick we will be lucky to make it out of the first Weekend. Good news is better times are ahead in the future for us. You can take it to the bank- -next yr. - -You watch, these teams better enjoy it, now kick us while we are down , THEY BETTER HOPE WE STAY DOWN CAUSE WHEN WE GET BACK UP - - - and we will get back up - -KU IS GOING TO BE KICKING ASS AND TAKIN NAMES -Don’t worry my KU Brothern , the sun still comes up in the East and Sets in the West hang in there it WILL get better- - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
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@kjayhawks said in BYU Thread:
@BeddieKU23 I’m gonna ask a Honest question here, is this Bill Selfs worst coaching job? This team has 2 all-Americans likely, 3 draft hopefuls and a Cousy award finalist. In 2019 we had no talent and 2015 we had super young talent. I think this team may end up worse than those 2, tho on paper should beat those teams by 25 points.
Yeah, probably. I think the transfer portal is also in part responsible for where we are. It’s gotta be difficult to maintain a culture while only returning 3 players (and one of those is a transfer as well).
I, like someone else said above, think Hunter is the issue. And for me it’s not even the missed free throws. It was his demeanor after every missed shot. As the 7’2’ big man who we try to run the offense through, he has been made the leader, particularly on the offensive end. We knew he was coming in with a big personality and has said all the right things to media, but I gotta wonder what is happening relationally behind the scenes with this team. And a lot of that is on Self.
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@kjayhawks said in BYU Thread:
@BeddieKU23 I’m gonna ask a Honest question here, is this Bill Selfs worst coaching job? This team has 2 all-Americans likely, 3 draft hopefuls and a Cousy award finalist. In 2019 we had no talent and 2015 we had super young talent. I think this team may end up worse than those 2, tho on paper should beat those teams by 25 points.
What has always made Self’s “bad talent” teams still win was the continuity of players in the program who learned to play defense. Even if a guy wasn’t that talented on offense by the time he saw significant playing time he was already molded by Self and co. to bring it on the defensive end and understand team defense. Like Self has always said, “You have to be able to win games while not hitting shots”. Four players(Hunter, Timberlake, Furphy, Elmarko) have played significant playing time this year are first-year guys at Kansas. Add that to the lack of a consistent three ball on offense and this is the result.
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@BigBad I do worry there is also an increasing divide between core Bill Self Defensive principals and the way offenses are being built by competitors. His focus on inside out defense and eliminating “easy buckets” (i.e. close shots) sets his team up to be vulnerable to teams like BYU who will commit to launching as many threes as possible. We’ve seen that in the tournament in recent years, and multiple times throughout this season as well. Some of it is poor individual defensive play and effort by the players, but it’s seeming increasingly likely that some of the key defensive principals of this coaching staff may just be allowing those things to happen and hoping it doesn’t bite you at the wrong time.
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This team very well may get knocked out in the first or second round. But they also may make a run. There is enough talent to carry them to April and I still think the HOF head coach knows a helluva lot more about basketball than most. Matchups in March matter more than is often given credit.
Also the B12 is a death gauntlet this year. Will that work to our advantage (battle-hardened) or disadvantage (injuries, tired) I don’t know. But it is a fact that the average quality of the teams is outstanding. I hope this is demonstrable in the tournament (3-4 of the elite 8 from the B12?)
I’m bummed about the outcomes (We lost the B12 race this year) and sometimes the performance (use your short- or long-term memory) but, at the end of the day they are still My Jayhawks. I hope they clean up the details and get healthy in the next 10 days.
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@bskeet That’s a much more eloquent and kind way of saying what I was thinking about our team to our entitled fanbase. Thank you, well done.
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@dylans You know how the fanbase becomes “entitled”, right? By winning. More than any other team in the history of college basketball (yeah, I know the NCAA knocked us back a few). If you’re a Kansas fan, you expect to win. You don’t make excuses for losing. Of course that’s my entitled opinion.
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@nuleafjhawk said in BYU Thread:
I’m an old timer. Back in the Danny Manning era, I used to tape every game (VHS even). I knew every player, every coach, every stat. I knew our records against all of our so called rivals - I was an obsessed KU basketball junkie. It actually was starting to interfere with my home life.
My home life is fantastic now. I haven’t watched the last 6 or 7 games. Haven’t “taped” a game to watch in years. Actually, my TV does record KU football, basketball and the Chiefs, but I’ve only watched one KU b-ball game that I’ve recorded. Against OU a few weeks back.
I guess I’ve gone from obsessed fanatic to fair weather fan. I like this a lot better. My blood pressure is where it should be most of the time and my wife and I enjoy doing things together or just watching a good movie or show.
I’ll watch the March Madness until we get knocked out in the second round by Arkansas Pine Bluff or someone equally lame.
I didn’t tape the Danny Manning games but I watched them live on tv, so I’m an old guy too. Losses used to really throw me in a funk for a bit too. Being a mostly fair weather fan is so much easier emotionally. If the team isn’t gelling stepping away and doing other things is way better than getting upset and brooding.
I’m probably way off base on this, but I just wondered if since Bill’s heart issue that in the name of self preservation (ha! Accidental pun) if he hasn’t maybe stepped back a little himself and that perhaps the intensity levels have dropped somewhat in other areas? Maybe the drive to condition and prepare play defense has eased just a little? Like Bobby Knight said, “Most people have the will to win, few have the will to prepare to win.”
Obviously teams are going to lose games and shooters are going to go through cold spells. I guess for me the losses are a little easier if I see the players leaving everything out on floor, giving that extra effort, and then coming up short.
Or maybe they are, but in a sport where winning relies on so many variables working well together, that just losing the Big 12’s leading scorer cascades outward?
Regardless, I just want to watch well-coached, well-prepared teams play hard - and usually that’s what the Jayhawks are and it often translates into success. If not, then there are a lot of other ways to spend my free time.
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@nuleafjhawk I, too, am proud/guilty to be so entitled.
Some wins in mid-to-late March can cover the stench of February.
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“How could Larry screw up a roster this bad?!” - Kansas fans February 1988
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Speaking of Larry (or, actually Ted…) From the twitter sphere:
Last night was the latest in a season that Kansas has lost in AFH since losing to Nebraska on 3/2/83. First time Kansas has lost at home after Feb 20th since Oklahoma topped KU on 2/22/84
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@nuleafjhawk said in BYU Thread:
@dylans You know how the fanbase becomes “entitled”, right? By winning. More than any other team in the history of college basketball (yeah, I know the NCAA knocked us back a few). If you’re a Kansas fan, you expect to win. You don’t make excuses for losing. Of course that’s my entitled opinion.
Being too selfish to be self aware is how you become entitled. Lots of successful people are very well grounded.
UConn has a better program than KU currently, yet fans act like it’s a crime against Jesus himself when KU loses. This years KU team was overrated due to name recognition early on and is underperforming late due to injuries.
Self has set a standard that no one, not even himself can achieve. I pity the coach that follows him.
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I honestly think Bill Self’s worst ‘coaching’ move was taking a known risk like Arterio Morris. Bill finds a different guy in the portal than him, and Kevin stays healthy, then we have a really nice squad with 3-4 losses max and debating people if we should be the #1 overall seed. Bill recruited some low character guys in the early to mid 2o10’s and finally seemed to get back to bringing in guys with good character and 2022 happened as a result, well guys with good character who could play basketball really well too!
1st round exit we hear people say. Among all the other superlatives our program garners, going back to 2006 when we last lost a first rounder, we probably have the longest 1st round win streak in the land too. Here’s betting it lasts again, unless Kevin can’t play, then it’s 50-50 we survive even in the 1st round.
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Yeah, it’s funny to consider perspective. I think the reason some may seem disappointed currently despite having a top 10 team is that the expectation this year and every year is to compete for championships. This team has basically failed to reach their own stated first goal, which is win the big 12.
For me, I count making the final four as a successful season. It generally means you had a successful regular season combined with some good post season wins as well. This team can still do that. Worse teams than this have made it to the last 4 out of the tournament for sure. But am I confident that they will make it there? Absolutely not. I do think this is a driver in the Kev situation as well. If we aren’t winning the league, how much do these last few games mean to the progress towards the next goal which is post season success?
Kansas fans are certainly spoiled and Self and the expectations for his teams are a result of his previous success.
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I’m moving on from this L and looking forward to remaining games, there’s still a chance to do well in the dance.
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@AsadZ I honestly think there is a fair chance we don’t win another game this season with Kevin out.
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Did anyone here see the UConn, Houston or Baylor games?
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I haven’t felt like Self has been the issue coaching them up. I do think he is on the hook for questionable roster moves this offseason though.
Neither Hunter or Kev is an All American if this season ended today right? That’s kind of been the thing the announcers/media run with but Kev has regressed in conf play + the injury forcing him to miss games doesnt help a lasting impression. Hunter has put up numbers but has also shown he isn’t a dominant force on his own either. At least for me it’s been disappointing that he hasn’t taken the absence of Kev to step up even more and be the leader/face of the team. Perhaps the voters don’t pay attention as M Much as we do.
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Certainly wasn’t his best game. I understand your frustrations with him and they are valid.
A team is often dependent on its PG playing well to win. Last night was no different.
He’s a great kid, had a tough life and he’s a kid I just can’t root against while he’s here.
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The offseason in general was a head scratcher. The portal was a mess. Morris is a stain on this season and one that won’t be forgotten especially if the end of the season is negative. It’s also an opportunity to learn for this staff what the portal is going to be like, what kind of players should be targets going forward and how will NIL keep this program at the top. This upcoming portal season is going to be pure insanity. It’s one that will make some coaches go in other directions based on what we have seen from the first wave of football portal madness.
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@benshawks08 said in BYU Thread:
I, like someone else said above, think Hunter is the issue. And for me it’s not even the missed free throws. It was his demeanor after every missed shot.
This is it. I was at the game last night, unfortunately (although it was still fun, great crowd, other than–who would have guessed–visiting BYU fans are kind of assholes).
Here’s the deal. Hunter bitched at the refs after EVERY play the second half about getting body checked on offense while going down the set up in the block. Yes, they were putting a little body on him. Little. He’s twice their size and acts like a flower. Spent an entire timeout showing the ref how they are jamming him with a forearm. Next play, ref finally called a foul. Game was tied or we were up or down one. Hunter missed both free throws, then the next two free throws and was basically useless the rest of the half other than one blocked shot against a 6 footer and a wide open three. All that energy being a crybaby for nothing. Was hacked all night and triple teamed and threw out to the wing one time.
His little flop about getting hit in the gut was weak as F too, not to mention the stupid slappy tech.
So… OK, he’s all we have. Million bucks. Love his short jumper touch and moves around the rim. It’s amazing. Could have kept the two bigs we lost Udeh and Zub, I get it. Hope he pulls a Remi in March/April, but it will be kind of icky. I feel bad for KJ, Juando to a limited extent because he hasn’t elevated his game one iota the past two years. Hope Furph sticks around with KJ to transition to another generation.
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@BeddieKU23 I have hope that Bills words with Fran are truly spoken by Fran. He said he’s not going to have such a thin roster again.
We don’t talk abou this enough. Kind of hard to blame him when you look at all the transfers. This is all a moot discussion I think if even half of those guys stick around. In my mind Yesofu and pettaway (sorry if my spelling is wrong) were interchangable. Even one of the two bigs (again, we hardly knew them, Zuby and ??) sticks around. These things happen at least we have a bench.
