Alpha Kevin, 2023-2024
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Did Kihei Clark do a senior speech last year i wonder?
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@drgnslayr said in Alpha Kevin, 2023-2024:
I’m curious how much of this is done by assumption. I think recruits want to be as certain as possible about lineups before committing.
If there was assumptions… it would have been Kevin and JWil gone. Gradey… it was uncertain if he was going to be effective in year one.
Coaches are always projecting out what they think a player will do and who may or may not be back. Self absolutely has NBA contacts in the front office and scouting departments across the league that regularly give him feedback on players and where their draft stock is. This is largely how coaches determine which positions to target in recruiting and the transfer portal now. The only time Self has really been caught off guard by players leaving early was in 2011 with the Morris twins and Self hadn’t recruited anyone to replace them.
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@Texas-Hawk-10 was there a hole after Embiid bc of his rapid development or do you think Self anticipated OAD?
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@approxinfinity said in Alpha Kevin, 2023-2024:
@Texas-Hawk-10 was there a hole after Embiid bc of his rapid development or do you think Self anticipated OAD?
Yes and no. I don’t think anybody anticipated Embiid developing as quickly as he did, but on paper, KU already had his replacement. The issue there was Cliff Alexander was not as good as anticipated and caused Self to also have to start Jamari Traylor and Landen Lucas in that post spot.
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@approxinfinity Kevin is literally playing at his max potential. Guy put up the same numbers basically every year of college.
Fair or not, I’m ready to let Kev leave. We’d probably be better with him, but he throws the dynamic off coming back imo.
He just doesn’t have the shooting ability or athleticism to be a volume scorer and that’s what he’d want to be.
Bring in fresh faces and go from there.
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Next year is truly “Reload the wagon”.
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When the replacements get announced I think most will be pleasantly surprised
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@FarmerJayhawk said in Alpha Kevin, 2023-2024:
When the replacements get announced I think most will be pleasantly surprised
You mean the transfers in yeah? I’d agree with that. I think we are shaping up to have a rather nice roster.
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@Kcmatt7 maybe. I think he’s got potential to be consistently great at o.
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@BShark said in Alpha Kevin, 2023-2024:
@FarmerJayhawk said in Alpha Kevin, 2023-2024:
When the replacements get announced I think most will be pleasantly surprised
You mean the transfers in yeah? I’d agree with that. I think we are shaping up to have a rather nice roster.
I know your not gonna say but you know of players that already saying transferring to KU ? - - legit players/scorers ? -not asking for names but just yes or no we got guys coming through the portal for sure that you know ?
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@bskeet and I think Bill will
I’m irritated because if we get past Arkansas I liked our chances to get to another final 4 where anything can happen
Free throws, rebounding just self inflicted stuff. Irritating and if we have Bill….can go on about the what if’s
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@FarmerJayhawk Do you know of two or just one?
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@kuballin10 one that’s like 99% done. The other still has to get down the tracks but looks to get done. A third is maaaaaaybe possible if the right guy becomes available
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Bring Kev back as an assistant coach
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So… who are the transfers we may be getting? Anyone care to share the rumors/skuttlebutt?
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@Bosthawk said in Alpha Kevin, 2023-2024:
So… who are the transfers we may be getting? Anyone care to share the rumors/skuttlebutt?
2 if I’m gambling. 3 is possible depending on how many leave.
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So we have one less scholarship and haven’t we already signed 3 (including the reclassification)?
Where are we in the scholarship count and who isn’t invited back next year?
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Over 2 currently with the 4 incoming freshman.
Cam & Cuffe will free up those spots bringing us to 12.
Expect MJ to transfer. I would also expect Yesufu to also explore his graduate options. That would free up 2 spots for the portal.
Zach seems like the one wildcard, Bobby said after the game he planned to return.
If Zach leaves you have 3 possible spots for the portal. Think that’s about as accurate of info as we have.
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Are we strictly left to portal transfers?
Are all decent HS prospects committed? Or how about some mentioning reopening their recruitment?
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Wasn’t Rice at Texas a portal grab last year? We sure missed on that one.
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@drgnslayr said in Alpha Kevin, 2023-2024:
Wasn’t Rice at Texas a portal grab last year? We sure missed on that one.
Yes, New Mexico St. He flashed big time in the NCAA tournament last year when they lost. KU wasn’t in on his recruitment though. Beard definitely found a good one.
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What I would like to know… and I’ve wanted to know this for years…
Who in our staff qualifies the athleticism of our prospects? This is the area where we seem to fail often. It’s ridiculous that teams like Arkansas can outperform us on athleticism.
Seems we have had problems in this area for years and it has been mentioned before after a failed March performance that we need better athleticism.
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@drgnslayr said in Alpha Kevin, 2023-2024:
Are we strictly left to portal transfers?
Are all decent HS prospects committed? Or how about some mentioning reopening their recruitment?
Yes. The 23 class is way down. Potentially you could return 6 guys with experience. Harris & Adams are your only 2 experienced guys coming back.
Clemence, Bobby, Udeh, Ejiofer have little overall experience. 4 incoming freshman is a lot in this portal age.
We need experience badly. As we’ve seen the last 2 years it’s difficult to win when your young.
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Definitely will need experience meshing in with our signing class of freshmen. Though… experience doesn’t always translate. I’m not going to mention names, but some of our transfers haven’t outperformed newbies much and tend to bring with them tendencies that don’t fit.
I think next year will be a tricky year for us. Like the newbies coming in… but as you mentioned, we will be lacking experience.
Not everyone is on to Kevin coming back but I can all but guarantee we would be a much stronger team next year with him staying. It’s easy to look at his weaknesses knowing he isn’t a great outside threat, but he probably saved us more games this year than any other players. Our defense would have completely sucked without him this year and next year it will be a disaster without him.
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I want Kevin back badly for all the reasons you mentioned. He was the perfect fit here. He’s gone though so it is what it is.
I think you’ll see Self adapt with the portal. The year he took the Lawson’s & Moore didn’t exactly pan out as planned and that was with all of them sitting a year due to the rules.
Moss and Jalen Coleman Lands were valuable bench pieces the 1 year they played here. They brought scoring off the bench. They were valuable.
Malik Newman gave us a magical March.
Remy Martin said hold my beer in March.
Kevin this year was a homerun.
In the next 1-2 years the Covid years will be exhausted, and you’ll see a shift again, I think. Teams are so old because of the covid year and transfer explosion. It’s hard for 18-year olds to compete against 22-25 year-olds which is what we are seeing right now. Coaches have had to adapt to survive.
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@BeddieKU23 said in Alpha Kevin, 2023-2024:
In the next 1-2 years the Covid years will be exhausted, and you’ll see a shift again, I think. Teams are so old because of the covid year and transfer explosion. It’s hard for 18-year olds to compete against 22-25 year-olds which is what we are seeing right now. Coaches have had to adapt to survive.
Excellent point!
Curious what this will mean for Duke and Kentucky and their list of OADs?
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@drgnslayr said in Alpha Kevin, 2023-2024:
@BeddieKU23 said in Alpha Kevin, 2023-2024:
In the next 1-2 years the Covid years will be exhausted, and you’ll see a shift again, I think. Teams are so old because of the covid year and transfer explosion. It’s hard for 18-year olds to compete against 22-25 year-olds which is what we are seeing right now. Coaches have had to adapt to survive.
Excellent point!
Curious what this will mean for Duke and Kentucky and their list of OADs?
Jon Scheyer already said he plans on pivoting his recruiting strategy to try and keep Duke older. Definitely worth keeping an eye out on how their 2024 class fills out. They currently have one commit (Darren Harris) who’s around 50th and will probably get Dylan Harper who’s a top 5 player in 2024. Beyond those two, I don’t know who they’re expected to land so we’ll see if Scheyer starts putting more focus on the transfer market at that point.
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@Texas-Hawk-10 have my doubts whether Duke would be as desirable for transfer targets.
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@approxinfinity said in Alpha Kevin, 2023-2024:
@Texas-Hawk-10 have my doubts whether Duke would be as desirable for transfer targets.
We’ll see what happens. I know they have a very strong NIL program so that’s a huge plus if Scheyer actually moves in that direction. More than anything, what his comments tell me is that Scheyer is aware of what kind of roster compositions have been winning titles recently and it doesn’t match what Duke’s have been.
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I wonder if this will shake out in Bill having his absolute choice of 20-100 ranked freshman as they become devalued
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@approxinfinity as preferred NIL scholarship recipients. Run 16 deep. To heck with the 13 scholly limit.
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@drgnslayr this does seem a common theme. I’m not sure I’d put it on anyone with the staff outside of CS himself. Imo he actually prefers guys that are more basketball savvy perhaps. Like Kevin. Just a very intelligent basketball player. Not saying you can’t get both. I think he’d love to have both but I also think there’s only so many of those that have the talent, athletism, and the very intellectual understanding of the game beyond their years to a degree.
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In Kevin’s tearful last interview he didn’t close the door on a return when asked. I bet inside he wants to come back. He’s not a lottery pick or probably even a pick in the first two rounds. Why wouldn’t he come back?
Maybe Self pushes these guys out even though we would be a better team? Got to make space for the new bloods?
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@drgnslayr said in Alpha Kevin, 2023-2024:
Maybe Self pushes these guys out even though we would be a better team? Got to make space for the new bloods?
No way. Kevin could be the top offensive guy on next years team.
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Self will absolutely push him. If and only if he thinks now is the best chance he has to get his best contract. Outside of that he would have him back in a heartbeat. Just not predominately for offense. Defense, IQ, experience, and what he can offer the new guys first and foremost
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I think Self will let Gradey’s parent’s help him make his decision. He for sure will test even if he wants to stay. He’s also hearing a lot of negative comments about his play from fans.
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@Crimsonorblue22 said in Alpha Kevin, 2023-2024:
I think Self will let Gradey’s parent’s help him make his decision. He for sure will test even if he wants to stay. He’s also hearing a lot of negative comments about his play from fans.
He’s staying in the draft.
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@BShark it’s bizarre how this fan base always try to talk themselves into a player staying or hood out hope they will stay when there is no logical reason for that player to stay. I’d love for Gradey to come back, but I also know it makes zero sense for him.
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I’m 99% sure we wouldn’t have won 20 games this year without Kevin.
His loss will be evident next year, unless we bring in real defenders.
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We’re going to feel the loss of Kevin defensively regardless of who we bring in IMO.
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True… but all I’m saying is we better be focused on finding defenders or forget a 20+ win season next year. No friggin’ way!
If it was me… I’d start with a legit 5!
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Bill always makes it work defensively for the most part. We were Top 10 nationally with a 6’6 center this year.
It will be his most challenging offseason in many regards. I couldn’t tell you how we are going to score, defend, rebound or do basically anything we do at a high level right now until the roster is completed.
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Right… with the best defending PG in the country!
And the best all around defender in the country!
They were mixed in with some of the poorest defenders in our conference.
We are down to Juan.
We couldn’t get the rest to step up on defense all year. I’m not sure why. KJ I give a partial excuse because of his size.
Consider Kevin leaving 2 defensive holes because he played like having 2 good defenders out there (when you consider his weakside help).
I’m the guy who defended the Kevin transfer last year with few else believing.
Self won’t have a good defensive team if everyone except Juan needs to learn basically from zero!
You can mark my words right here for next season. Just like I swore on Kevin being a major score.
I’m praying like everyone else that Ernest and Zuby are completely renovated players next year… but I’m not counting on it. They are both green like St. Pat’s Day!
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@BeddieKU23 said in Alpha Kevin, 2023-2024:
Bill always makes it work defensively for the most part. We were Top 10 nationally with a 6’6 center this year.
It will be his most challenging offseason in many regards. I couldn’t tell you how we are going to score, defend, rebound or do basically anything we do at a high level right now until the roster is completed.
That 6-6 center is an above average defender even despite his size. It also helped that we had two other elite level defenders on the floor in Kevin and Dejuan.
Dejuan and KJ is a good place to start defensively for next season and regardless of who Self ends up taking, I’m sure it will be a workable defense.
I am much more concerned about the offensive end of the floor at this point and it will probably be pretty rough early on as the new faces learn how to play together. Has Self ever had a year with only 4 returning players total? 2018-19 might be the best comparison as far as experience returning. I’m definitely expecting KU to struggle early on next season because of all the new faces.
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Here is what I posted last year after our championship… I can still stand by this, and do. Especially pushing Kevin.
As I said all this year… our offense feasted off of our defense. When we ran slow half-court offense we weren’t great. What made us great was a faster offense fueled off our defense.
I pray to God we don’t make the mistake we can just load up on offensive players and expect a good season. We will 100% fail. Again… mark my words for next season and lets all go back and read this again.
KJ deserves a ton of credit. But he’s at the bottom of Big 12 defensive 5s. Not his fault! Our biggest defensive Achilles heel all year was low post scoring and scoring off the drive or pull-up in the low paint. Our second issue was rebounding. KJ isn’t a rebounder.
We will be a ton better next year if we solidify the 5. Period.
I know we all want to see KJ on the floor. If we had a legit 5 Self would still find a way to use KJ. He’s been carving out space for himself on the floor.
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@drgnslayr said in Alpha Kevin, 2023-2024:
Here is what I posted last year after our championship… I can still stand by this, and do. Especially pushing Kevin.
As I said all this year… our offense feasted off of our defense. When we ran slow half-court offense we weren’t great. What made us great was a faster offense fueled off our defense.
I pray to God we don’t make the mistake we can just load up on offensive players and expect a good season. We will 100% fail. Again… mark my words for next season and lets all go back and read this again.
KJ deserves a ton of credit. But he’s at the bottom of Big 12 defensive 5s. Not his fault! Our biggest defensive Achilles heel all year was low post scoring and scoring off the drive or pull-up in the low paint. Our second issue was rebounding. KJ isn’t a rebounder.
We will be a ton better next year if we solidify the 5. Period.
I know we all want to see KJ on the floor. If we had a legit 5 Self would still find a way to use KJ. He’s been carving out space for himself on the floor.
Self isn’t adding anybody at the 5 spot. Two of the issues you mentioned weren’t KJ specific issues. Best case would be for KJ to develop into a 30% or better outside shooter so he could be moved to the 4 spot and Udeh or Zuby can take over the 5. As far as actual roster personnel changes, the 5 spot is the one position Self isn’t looking at because he already has 3 of them.
The issue isn’t Udeh or Zuby though, the issue is KJ can’t play the 4 in Self’s 4 out system because he can’t shoot 3’s. He also can’t play the 4 in Self’s two big offense because he again can’t make 3’s and Self’s high-low always had a big man capable of making 3’s which is why his high-low was so effective. Unless KJ develops new skills, he’s locked in as a 5 because that’s the only place he can play extended minutes.
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The thing that will hurt dook is it’s VERY hard to get into dook and be NCAA eligible as a transfer because the university is so strict with transfer credits. Notre Dame currently has the same issues. If you transfer from State School X to dook you’ll lose a bunch of credits and ka boom you’re ineligible because all the sudden it’s your 4th year and you’re just a sophomore academically so you can’t play.
And no, the admin doesn’t bend over backwards to take transfers. High school kids, fine. But that’s a much easier thing to start a marginal kid at zero vs changing your whole transfer credit structure to get a transfer athlete eligible.
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I 1000% disagree.
We are the only upper-tier school in D1 with a 6’6" center. It had to work in a jam, but now we have time to fix it.
Actually… you forgot we have Zach, too. REVISE: now in the portal!
The chances of us landing another defensive monster like Kevin is zero.
Our best shot at a decent year is to snag a legit 5. Zuby or Ernest, one, should head for the portal.
My only “unless” is if we see major development out of one of those bigs between now and November and I just don’t see it happening in a few months.
There aren’t many options at the 5, but I would at least consider the guy from TT. At least he has years experience in the low post and can score back to the basket. We have no legit 5 to teach Zuby and Ernest how to low post score… further slowing their development.
No one loves KJ more than me… but realistically, we’ve been murdered at the 5 all year. He averaged only 4.3 rpg and had zero interior defensive presence.
At 6’6"… might as well call him a guard. We played most of the year with 5 guards on the floor.
If we go without Kevin and have KJ in the post this year we will get completely murdered! Watch some tape… Kevin was the weakside help for KJ 99% of the time this past year and it helped keep us in games, also helped KJ from fouling less.
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I’ll shoot a 100% honest as usual. I was unimpressed with Kevin for 3/4s of the year. He came on late and showed some of his worth and we needed it to win the conference. You look at his numbers from Tech the last 2 years they mirror that of him this year. I thought he was much more athletic than he seemed to be here maybe some of that was his back. I thought the ball stuck so bad especially early in the year on offense when he was in the game. It was very obvious at the game I was at. Of course some it can be attributed to being new.
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@kjayhawks Took him a little bit to get comfortable with Bill’s system imo
