Alpha Kevin, 2023-2024
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Definitely will need experience meshing in with our signing class of freshmen. Though… experience doesn’t always translate. I’m not going to mention names, but some of our transfers haven’t outperformed newbies much and tend to bring with them tendencies that don’t fit.
I think next year will be a tricky year for us. Like the newbies coming in… but as you mentioned, we will be lacking experience.
Not everyone is on to Kevin coming back but I can all but guarantee we would be a much stronger team next year with him staying. It’s easy to look at his weaknesses knowing he isn’t a great outside threat, but he probably saved us more games this year than any other players. Our defense would have completely sucked without him this year and next year it will be a disaster without him.
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I want Kevin back badly for all the reasons you mentioned. He was the perfect fit here. He’s gone though so it is what it is.
I think you’ll see Self adapt with the portal. The year he took the Lawson’s & Moore didn’t exactly pan out as planned and that was with all of them sitting a year due to the rules.
Moss and Jalen Coleman Lands were valuable bench pieces the 1 year they played here. They brought scoring off the bench. They were valuable.
Malik Newman gave us a magical March.
Remy Martin said hold my beer in March.
Kevin this year was a homerun.
In the next 1-2 years the Covid years will be exhausted, and you’ll see a shift again, I think. Teams are so old because of the covid year and transfer explosion. It’s hard for 18-year olds to compete against 22-25 year-olds which is what we are seeing right now. Coaches have had to adapt to survive.
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@BeddieKU23 said in Alpha Kevin, 2023-2024:
In the next 1-2 years the Covid years will be exhausted, and you’ll see a shift again, I think. Teams are so old because of the covid year and transfer explosion. It’s hard for 18-year olds to compete against 22-25 year-olds which is what we are seeing right now. Coaches have had to adapt to survive.
Excellent point!
Curious what this will mean for Duke and Kentucky and their list of OADs?
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@drgnslayr said in Alpha Kevin, 2023-2024:
@BeddieKU23 said in Alpha Kevin, 2023-2024:
In the next 1-2 years the Covid years will be exhausted, and you’ll see a shift again, I think. Teams are so old because of the covid year and transfer explosion. It’s hard for 18-year olds to compete against 22-25 year-olds which is what we are seeing right now. Coaches have had to adapt to survive.
Excellent point!
Curious what this will mean for Duke and Kentucky and their list of OADs?
Jon Scheyer already said he plans on pivoting his recruiting strategy to try and keep Duke older. Definitely worth keeping an eye out on how their 2024 class fills out. They currently have one commit (Darren Harris) who’s around 50th and will probably get Dylan Harper who’s a top 5 player in 2024. Beyond those two, I don’t know who they’re expected to land so we’ll see if Scheyer starts putting more focus on the transfer market at that point.
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@Texas-Hawk-10 have my doubts whether Duke would be as desirable for transfer targets.
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@approxinfinity said in Alpha Kevin, 2023-2024:
@Texas-Hawk-10 have my doubts whether Duke would be as desirable for transfer targets.
We’ll see what happens. I know they have a very strong NIL program so that’s a huge plus if Scheyer actually moves in that direction. More than anything, what his comments tell me is that Scheyer is aware of what kind of roster compositions have been winning titles recently and it doesn’t match what Duke’s have been.
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I wonder if this will shake out in Bill having his absolute choice of 20-100 ranked freshman as they become devalued
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@approxinfinity as preferred NIL scholarship recipients. Run 16 deep. To heck with the 13 scholly limit.
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@drgnslayr this does seem a common theme. I’m not sure I’d put it on anyone with the staff outside of CS himself. Imo he actually prefers guys that are more basketball savvy perhaps. Like Kevin. Just a very intelligent basketball player. Not saying you can’t get both. I think he’d love to have both but I also think there’s only so many of those that have the talent, athletism, and the very intellectual understanding of the game beyond their years to a degree.
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In Kevin’s tearful last interview he didn’t close the door on a return when asked. I bet inside he wants to come back. He’s not a lottery pick or probably even a pick in the first two rounds. Why wouldn’t he come back?
Maybe Self pushes these guys out even though we would be a better team? Got to make space for the new bloods?
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@drgnslayr said in Alpha Kevin, 2023-2024:
Maybe Self pushes these guys out even though we would be a better team? Got to make space for the new bloods?
No way. Kevin could be the top offensive guy on next years team.
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Self will absolutely push him. If and only if he thinks now is the best chance he has to get his best contract. Outside of that he would have him back in a heartbeat. Just not predominately for offense. Defense, IQ, experience, and what he can offer the new guys first and foremost
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I think Self will let Gradey’s parent’s help him make his decision. He for sure will test even if he wants to stay. He’s also hearing a lot of negative comments about his play from fans.
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@Crimsonorblue22 said in Alpha Kevin, 2023-2024:
I think Self will let Gradey’s parent’s help him make his decision. He for sure will test even if he wants to stay. He’s also hearing a lot of negative comments about his play from fans.
He’s staying in the draft.
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@BShark it’s bizarre how this fan base always try to talk themselves into a player staying or hood out hope they will stay when there is no logical reason for that player to stay. I’d love for Gradey to come back, but I also know it makes zero sense for him.
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I’m 99% sure we wouldn’t have won 20 games this year without Kevin.
His loss will be evident next year, unless we bring in real defenders.
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We’re going to feel the loss of Kevin defensively regardless of who we bring in IMO.
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True… but all I’m saying is we better be focused on finding defenders or forget a 20+ win season next year. No friggin’ way!
If it was me… I’d start with a legit 5!
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Bill always makes it work defensively for the most part. We were Top 10 nationally with a 6’6 center this year.
It will be his most challenging offseason in many regards. I couldn’t tell you how we are going to score, defend, rebound or do basically anything we do at a high level right now until the roster is completed.
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Right… with the best defending PG in the country!
And the best all around defender in the country!
They were mixed in with some of the poorest defenders in our conference.
We are down to Juan.
We couldn’t get the rest to step up on defense all year. I’m not sure why. KJ I give a partial excuse because of his size.
Consider Kevin leaving 2 defensive holes because he played like having 2 good defenders out there (when you consider his weakside help).
I’m the guy who defended the Kevin transfer last year with few else believing.
Self won’t have a good defensive team if everyone except Juan needs to learn basically from zero!
You can mark my words right here for next season. Just like I swore on Kevin being a major score.
I’m praying like everyone else that Ernest and Zuby are completely renovated players next year… but I’m not counting on it. They are both green like St. Pat’s Day!
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@BeddieKU23 said in Alpha Kevin, 2023-2024:
Bill always makes it work defensively for the most part. We were Top 10 nationally with a 6’6 center this year.
It will be his most challenging offseason in many regards. I couldn’t tell you how we are going to score, defend, rebound or do basically anything we do at a high level right now until the roster is completed.
That 6-6 center is an above average defender even despite his size. It also helped that we had two other elite level defenders on the floor in Kevin and Dejuan.
Dejuan and KJ is a good place to start defensively for next season and regardless of who Self ends up taking, I’m sure it will be a workable defense.
I am much more concerned about the offensive end of the floor at this point and it will probably be pretty rough early on as the new faces learn how to play together. Has Self ever had a year with only 4 returning players total? 2018-19 might be the best comparison as far as experience returning. I’m definitely expecting KU to struggle early on next season because of all the new faces.
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Here is what I posted last year after our championship… I can still stand by this, and do. Especially pushing Kevin.
As I said all this year… our offense feasted off of our defense. When we ran slow half-court offense we weren’t great. What made us great was a faster offense fueled off our defense.
I pray to God we don’t make the mistake we can just load up on offensive players and expect a good season. We will 100% fail. Again… mark my words for next season and lets all go back and read this again.
KJ deserves a ton of credit. But he’s at the bottom of Big 12 defensive 5s. Not his fault! Our biggest defensive Achilles heel all year was low post scoring and scoring off the drive or pull-up in the low paint. Our second issue was rebounding. KJ isn’t a rebounder.
We will be a ton better next year if we solidify the 5. Period.
I know we all want to see KJ on the floor. If we had a legit 5 Self would still find a way to use KJ. He’s been carving out space for himself on the floor.
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@drgnslayr said in Alpha Kevin, 2023-2024:
Here is what I posted last year after our championship… I can still stand by this, and do. Especially pushing Kevin.
As I said all this year… our offense feasted off of our defense. When we ran slow half-court offense we weren’t great. What made us great was a faster offense fueled off our defense.
I pray to God we don’t make the mistake we can just load up on offensive players and expect a good season. We will 100% fail. Again… mark my words for next season and lets all go back and read this again.
KJ deserves a ton of credit. But he’s at the bottom of Big 12 defensive 5s. Not his fault! Our biggest defensive Achilles heel all year was low post scoring and scoring off the drive or pull-up in the low paint. Our second issue was rebounding. KJ isn’t a rebounder.
We will be a ton better next year if we solidify the 5. Period.
I know we all want to see KJ on the floor. If we had a legit 5 Self would still find a way to use KJ. He’s been carving out space for himself on the floor.
Self isn’t adding anybody at the 5 spot. Two of the issues you mentioned weren’t KJ specific issues. Best case would be for KJ to develop into a 30% or better outside shooter so he could be moved to the 4 spot and Udeh or Zuby can take over the 5. As far as actual roster personnel changes, the 5 spot is the one position Self isn’t looking at because he already has 3 of them.
The issue isn’t Udeh or Zuby though, the issue is KJ can’t play the 4 in Self’s 4 out system because he can’t shoot 3’s. He also can’t play the 4 in Self’s two big offense because he again can’t make 3’s and Self’s high-low always had a big man capable of making 3’s which is why his high-low was so effective. Unless KJ develops new skills, he’s locked in as a 5 because that’s the only place he can play extended minutes.
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The thing that will hurt dook is it’s VERY hard to get into dook and be NCAA eligible as a transfer because the university is so strict with transfer credits. Notre Dame currently has the same issues. If you transfer from State School X to dook you’ll lose a bunch of credits and ka boom you’re ineligible because all the sudden it’s your 4th year and you’re just a sophomore academically so you can’t play.
And no, the admin doesn’t bend over backwards to take transfers. High school kids, fine. But that’s a much easier thing to start a marginal kid at zero vs changing your whole transfer credit structure to get a transfer athlete eligible.
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I 1000% disagree.
We are the only upper-tier school in D1 with a 6’6" center. It had to work in a jam, but now we have time to fix it.
Actually… you forgot we have Zach, too. REVISE: now in the portal!
The chances of us landing another defensive monster like Kevin is zero.
Our best shot at a decent year is to snag a legit 5. Zuby or Ernest, one, should head for the portal.
My only “unless” is if we see major development out of one of those bigs between now and November and I just don’t see it happening in a few months.
There aren’t many options at the 5, but I would at least consider the guy from TT. At least he has years experience in the low post and can score back to the basket. We have no legit 5 to teach Zuby and Ernest how to low post score… further slowing their development.
No one loves KJ more than me… but realistically, we’ve been murdered at the 5 all year. He averaged only 4.3 rpg and had zero interior defensive presence.
At 6’6"… might as well call him a guard. We played most of the year with 5 guards on the floor.
If we go without Kevin and have KJ in the post this year we will get completely murdered! Watch some tape… Kevin was the weakside help for KJ 99% of the time this past year and it helped keep us in games, also helped KJ from fouling less.
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I’ll shoot a 100% honest as usual. I was unimpressed with Kevin for 3/4s of the year. He came on late and showed some of his worth and we needed it to win the conference. You look at his numbers from Tech the last 2 years they mirror that of him this year. I thought he was much more athletic than he seemed to be here maybe some of that was his back. I thought the ball stuck so bad especially early in the year on offense when he was in the game. It was very obvious at the game I was at. Of course some it can be attributed to being new.
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@kjayhawks Took him a little bit to get comfortable with Bill’s system imo
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Self is a genius. How he used KJ this past year was amazing on his pick and rolls around the FT line. KJ’s deficit is his defense at the 5. I don’t agree that he couldn’t be used on the floor at the 4. Might not be our best option but if it can be done, Self will figure it out. I could see our legit 5 setting a high ball screen to create a mismatch while KJ circles the baseline and low post to go 1-on-1 against the other team’s 4. KJ can guard a 4 and has his 5 backing him up.
@kjayhawks let’s face it… Kevin’s offense can be ugly. His shot form is odd and his dexterity can sometimes be questioned. But if you go back and look at tape, our defense completely sucked without Kevin. Most of what he did doesn’t show up in stats. He was the weakside monster for all 5 positions. Even Marcus Garrett didn’t quite give us that. He was only 1 through 4. With Kevin, it allowed us to get away with murder… like having KJ at the post, Gradey getting smoked, and even JWil not getting it done on D.
We have to have an answer for the defensive hole Kevin leaves behind. Since there are no more Kevins out there, it will be by beefing up our defense with others and the first glaring spot is at the 5.
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@drgnslayr I think that’s a fair assessment for the most part. Personally thought this team was garbage defensively outside of Juan and Kevin. None the bench guys could guard Fort Knox to boot.
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@drgnslayr said in Alpha Kevin, 2023-2024:
I 1000% disagree.
We are the only upper-tier school in D1 with a 6’6" center. It had to work in a jam, but now we have time to fix it.
Actually… you forgot we have Zach, too.
The chances of us landing another defensive monster like Kevin is zero.
Our best shot at a decent year is to snag a legit 5. Zuby or Ernest, one, should head for the portal.
My only “unless” is if we see major development out of one of those bigs between now and November and I just don’t see it happening in a few months.
There aren’t many options at the 5, but I would at least consider the guy from TT. At least he has years experience in the low post and can score back to the basket.
No one loves KJ more than me… but realistically, we’ve been murdered at the 5 all year. He averaged only 4.3 rpg and had zero interior defensive presence.
At 6’6"… might as well call him a guard. We played most of the year with 5 guards on the floor.
If we go without Kevin and have KJ in the post this year we will get completely murdered!
Clemence isn’t staying, that’s a matter of time. Nobody has been on KJ’s case about rebounding more than me and you know that. Udeh and Zuby will be fine on defense with experience under their belts this year. The light was already coming on for Udeh at the end of the season at both ends.
Aimaq also isn’t a significant upgrade over Adams. He was pretty overwhelmed by moving up to B12 competition and his defensive rating last season in limited action was very similar to KJ’s. The only defensive category he was noticeably better than KJ was rebounding, everything else was either pretty equal or favored KJ.
I think you need to accept that KJ, Udeh, and Zuby will be options at the 5 next season.
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A lot of rebounds KJ might have gotten were sucked up by KM and JW. We were first in conference play in rebounds, so I don’t get the claims that we got killed all year.
Well, except for that last game…
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@mayjay Yea I also felt the KJ rebound slander was a bit dramatic for several reasons. We switch everything, and so he isn’t always under the basket. He played next to three guys who rebounded pretty well in Gradey, Kev and JWill. And when he wasn’t switched, he had to box out the opposing big man which made others available to rebound the ball.
Is he Thomas Robinson? No. But he was as good as you could really expect for a player his size and caliber.
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Aimaq was out for 80% of the season with injuries and the other 20% can hardly be judged in a completely failed TT season.
He’s 6’11", 245 lbs… not even in the same conversation with 6’6" Adams.
This conversation is ridiculous.
KJ, Udeh, and Zuby… none have back to the basket offense. ZERO! All commit constant fouls and haven’t defended well. I can’t believe I have to defend what was right in front of us all year.
All kinds of players are entering the portal. All you guys just give up on the 5-spot thinking quantity equals quality.
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@drgnslayr said in Alpha Kevin, 2023-2024:
Aimaq was out for 80% of the season with injuries and the other 20% can hardly be judged in a completely failed TT season.
He’s 6’11", 245 lbs… not even in the same conversation with 6’6" Adams.
This conversation is ridiculous.
The games he played can absolutely be judged because they were against B12 competition and that’s what he would do next year amd he wasn’t significantly better than KJ. I also don’t give a shit about his size because he didn’t do much with it. How does a guy with his size playing basically 30 minutes per game only get 3 blocks in his 11 games? He has size, that’s great, but he’s not athletic enough to be the rim protector Self prefers. The options already on KU’s roster are superior to Aimaq.
I also don’t understand why you’d want to get rid of Udeh or Zuby for a 1 year rental. They were freshmen last year and played like freshmen. Self also doesn’t give a shit about how much his back ups 5’s foul. Mitch Lightfoot averaged 7.2 fouls per 40 minutes last season. The job of a back up 5 under Self isn’t to play foul free defense, it’s to be aggressive and give the starter a breather. Doke averaged almost 9 fouls per 40 minutes his freshman season and was down to 3.5 his senior year. Tarik Black averaged over 8 fouls per 40 minutes when he came off the bench in his year here and significantly cut down on his fouls when he had to start. That’s something that comes with experience and roles in the system. Udeh’s foul rate will significantly go down once he becomes a starter, until then it’s not a huge issue because it’s not an expectation.
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I give up. KU is screwed next year. Back in a year… adios!
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It’s hard to complain about KJ and his production this year. He surprised me. He’s quick enough to guard all positions, but not tall enough to guard normal bigs. He did protect the rim a tiny bit with his athleticism. So, not his fault he was playing the five. I’d say he played above expectation.
I’d prefer a true big manning the middle, with KJ playing sixth man minutes. Reckless abandon minutes!
I guess the problem is his competition. He obviously beat them out this year. I didn’t see any traditional back to the basket skill from the other two guys.
The only way I could see KJ playing the 4 next year is if we had three supreme sharp shooting smalls around the two bigs.
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@drgnslayr lol man. In other news, still doing the garden this year?
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@drgnslayr right or wrong it seems like Bill is rolling with what we’ve got. I’m comfortable with what they’ve got based on the flashes we saw from Udeh and Zuby before his injury.
The TTU guy is not worth kicking Zuby or Udeh off the roster at all.
Maybe someone else hits the portal that’s worth it. But it ain’t him.
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Udeh has oodles of potential. Why recruit over him instead of develop him? I think Earnest will be good next year and great the following year if he gets to play.
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@drgnslayr said in Alpha Kevin, 2023-2024:
I give up. KU is screwed next year. Back in a year… adios!
Don’t give up, but also don’t get overly caught up in this quick fix transfer portal/free agency market. The best teams, as you know, DEVELOP players. That’s what Kansas has done best to stay on top. Yes we’ve had a few nice one year pick ups, but the heart and soul of the Jayhawks will always be players developed here. Players like Ochai, Devonte, Frank, Doke, David, Cole, Perry, Jalen, Christian, etc.
Our next crop of true blue Jayhawks are already on our roster and they are coming back with something to prove. Juan made some significant mental errors in that Arkansas game that were uncharacteristic for him. I’d imagine those mistakes are baking into a nice crispy chip on his shoulder. Everyone has said that KJ is too small to play the 5 and can’t shoot well enough to play anything else. Does KJ seem like the kind of kid who hears that and thinks, yep, might as well give up? CHIP. Udeh is a 6’11’’ McDonalds All American who couldn’t beat out a 6’6" guard with short arms for the 5 spot this year. Is that motivating or demoralizing? Ask him and I’d bet he’d give you the right answer. Zuby is a rebounding machine who was on track to be the guy to back up KJ this year until injury got in the way. Do you think his plan is to come back and ride the bench?
I’ll take those guys over some transfer who wants to get more individual attention from wearing Kansas on his jersey. They have the tools. Did you see that block Udeh had in the first half after one of those “athletic” arkansas guards beat his man badly? Dude thought he had a free layup. Nope, Udeh had the awareness to recover and help, and the athleticism to make a block off a drop step at the rim look routine. Did you see the way Zuby goes after every rebound with two hands? How lesser men bounce off of his big shoulders as they fight for position and the ball?
We are so good at the five next year not because the guys we have are already good enough to hold down the spot but because they know exactly what they need to do to take their skills to the next level. They have a year (or two) in the system and have a relationship with the coaches that will allow them to progress over time like so many of our favorite jayhawks have.
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@Kcmatt7 said in Alpha Kevin, 2023-2024:
@drgnslayr right or wrong it seems like Bill is rolling with what we’ve got. I’m comfortable with what they’ve got based on the flashes we saw from Udeh and Zuby before his injury.
The TTU guy is not worth kicking Zuby or Udeh off the roster at all.
Maybe someone else hits the portal that’s worth it. But it ain’t him.
UNLIKE Calipari, Bill has ADAPTED. You simply do not need a back to the basket big in today’s game. In fact it’s very inefficient basketball.
That said…you’ll like Harrison Ingram. I’ve watched a lot of his tape and seen him back down college players all the way from the three point line for lay-ups. He’s not a true big and will play the 4 but he has that kind of craftiness to his game and is effective around the rim.
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@BShark lol Duke and UK playing 2 bigs all season was a delight to watch.
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@BShark So - Harrison Ingram is rumored to be considering Kansas apparently … Who else?
