Big12 strength
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I would never think replacing OU and Texas with those others is a good idea. Two legendary football programs that still draw lots of eyeballs, and two basketball programs that have been relevant for decades, if not elite, for directional non traditional powers just seems like we’re setting ourselves up for a league with less prestige and power than more. Obviously OU and Texas left on their own but we’re going to miss them.
Houston going to find out the Big 12 is a tad stronger than the league (I honestly can’t think of it) they play in now, and I have little doubt we’re still Big12 champs even if they’re here.
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@wissox said in Big12 strength:
I would never think replacing OU and Texas with those others is a good idea. Two legendary football programs that still draw lots of eyeballs, and two basketball programs that have been relevant for decades, if not elite, for directional non traditional powers just seems like we’re setting ourselves up for a league with less prestige and power than more. Obviously OU and Texas left on their own but we’re going to miss them.
Houston going to find out the Big 12 is a tad stronger than the league (I honestly can’t think of it) they play in now, and I have little doubt we’re still Big12 champs even if they’re here.
- American Athletic (AAC).
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I can’t stand texass but I love beating them. It won’t be the same. Winning a big 12 and not playing Baylor or tech? Not excited if that’s how it plays out. We play in the north?
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@Crimsonorblue22 said in Big12 strength:
I can’t stand texass but I love beating them. It won’t be the same. Winning a big 12 and not playing Baylor or tech? Not excited if that’s how it plays out. We play in the north?
We should still play Baylor and tech in basketball at least. Just maybe not twice every year.
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@benshawks08 how do you think it will work?
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@Crimsonorblue22 probably the way it used to with an unbalanced schedule. Play everybody team 1 time and others twice. No divisions according to Yomark, at least so far.
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I thought it was going to be a north/south division.
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How many teams?
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14 next year after that? 12-16. I would guess that divisions will eventually be made. Probably sooner the more teams there are. Just a guess though.
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Arena capacity for new teams is of interest.
Houston 7,100
BYU 13,500
Cincinnati 12,000
Florida school for the blind - 5,500
Departures -
Texas 7,000
OU 11,000
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Conference attendance figures (from ‘22)
Big 12 top percentage of seats filled in 2023 @ 75.8%
Big 10 12,500/game 2,980,000 total (66%)
Big 12 10,600/game 1,880,000 total (75.8%)
SEC 10,500/game 2,660,000 total (56.5%)
ACC 9,700/game 2,490,000 total attendance (63.3%)
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The realignment jazz has never been about power and prestige imo. It’s always been about media markets. We win that battle with this one. Losing OKC and Austin, gaining Houston, Cincinnati, Salt lake and much of Utah, and parts of Florida.
We’ll be fine. I think it’s a NET gain in the longer term. Coming to this league will elevate those schools as well. Imo it definitely did for Baylor, TCU, TTU. My next move would be to try to get Arizona, Arizona State, New Mexico, and Colorado back.
Guarantee the B1G didn’t go get UCLA and USC for power and prestige. The got one of the largest TV markets in the nation with that move.
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@wissox said in Big12 strength:
I honestly can’t think of it
When I can’t remember one, I figure it has a few A’s and at least one C in it.
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Texas has 6 seniors to play for and is listed as a 3.5 pt favorite today. This is going to be a very tough game.
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@cragarhawk Here’s my concern about those markets - Houston/Texas market is almost all Texas and TexasAM. The other Texas teams don’t carry nearly as much weight. Utah - might be a good pickup religious schools usually have fanatical followers. Cincinnati- wrong Ohio team. Florida directional school - definitely the wrong Florida School won’t draw eyes like Florida, FSU, or Miami.
It can’t just be about markets or you’ll lose your support. For example I don’t watch whatever conference WSU plays in because the teams suck, but it’s in the Kansas market.
Yormark needs to be careful not to alienate fans by creating a scrap work conference with few current rivalries. I’m not sure what he should do, but I am not a fan of these lower sports class schools joining the conference. Houston, BYU, UCF, Cinnci, TCU - looks like a lower tier conference than we used to have. I guess you’ve got to find willing members to join and the Big12 is a distant 3rd from the Big10 and SEC. Really glad to not be in the Pac12 shoes, which is where the Big12 was heading a few years ago.
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It will certainly diminish the league or water it down from a competitive and rivalry standpoint in the short term. But I do think in time those schools elevate. Competition elevates as will the fan based and the market footprint is still a good enough one to create a very good contract which is really what I think all the conferences are shooting for.
Again look at the 4 Texas schools that originally came in. Obviously with A&M having come and gone to greener pastures. Not saying it will be overnite. But I mean TCU just played for a national championship. TTU played for one, Baylor won one. I don’t think anyone of those happen in this era of college sports if those respective schools are still in their prior conference
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Cincinnati got some nice publicity in the Super Bowl with the Kelce bros storylines
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@cragarhawk TCU’s enrollment is so small it doesn’t really matter what they do. They lack fans and always will be the red headed step child school in Texas.
I guess level of play isn’t as important as prestige and that’s a decades long process that also requires a big alumni/fan base.
I’m worried what the Big12 is doing is like adding the KC Roos to the SEC so they can crack into the KC market.
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@mayjay said in Big12 strength:
Cincinnati got some nice publicity in the Super Bowl with the Kelce bros storylines
After the AFCC game I hope to never hear from a Cincinnati fan ever again. They are the worst fanbase in the NFL. Good grief, I hope their college fans aren’t that horrible.
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@dylans I think you’re correct to worry about that to an extent. Cause that’s exactly what they’re doing. One could argue they don’t have a lot of choice tho in this landscape. The UCF deal bugs me a lil… the others I think will actually be good for the conference and the new contract.
Viewership wise we may have preferred to stay at the remaining 8. Maybe even from a competitive standpoint. But I think that puts you on your deathbed as a conference. Quality should be over quantity but I’m not sure that it is in this case. If the PAC gets robbed again and I actually hope it does(by the Big 12). They will be all but extinct imo.
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@cragarhawk yeah it’s just my unsubstantiated fears. If I were stupid Michael I would be scared. Lol
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@cragarhawk said in Big12 strength:
The realignment jazz has never been about power and prestige imo. It’s always been about media markets. We win that battle with this one. Losing OKC and Austin, gaining Houston, Cincinnati, Salt lake and much of Utah, and parts of Florida.
We’ll be fine. I think it’s a NET gain in the longer term. Coming to this league will elevate those schools as well. Imo it definitely did for Baylor, TCU, TTU. My next move would be to try to get Arizona, Arizona State, New Mexico, and Colorado back.
Guarantee the B1G didn’t go get UCLA and USC for power and prestige. The got one of the largest TV markets in the nation with that move.
Expansion and realignment has been about different things for different leagues. New media markets has never been the top priority for the Big 12 because of the lack of an actual B12 network. This round for the Big 12 is about expanding the footprint to get Big 12 sports on networks from the first games of the day to the last games of the day.
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@Gorilla72 said in Big12 strength:
@wissox said in Big12 strength:
I would never think replacing OU and Texas with those others is a good idea. Two legendary football programs that still draw lots of eyeballs, and two basketball programs that have been relevant for decades, if not elite, for directional non traditional powers just seems like we’re setting ourselves up for a league with less prestige and power than more. Obviously OU and Texas left on their own but we’re going to miss them.
Houston going to find out the Big 12 is a tad stronger than the league (I honestly can’t think of it) they play in now, and I have little doubt we’re still Big12 champs even if they’re here.
- American Athletic (AAC).
Thanks I could have looked it up obviously but that kind of defeats the purpose of my point!
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@dylans I think you helped me make my point. Even if we somehow added Gonzaga it still ‘looks like’ a mid major, at least to many of us who remember when they were the mid major that started to make some NCAA tourney noise.
I’ll admit Houston has some basketball history thats pretty strong. Cincy has some too but from eons ago. BYU, no final fours, UCF, no final fours. Cincy got into the Cfp and got routed, not sure BYU has ever played in a NY6 bowl game. UCF I think did once or twice at least.
I’m sure the AD’s are at least salivating over selling some basketball tickets when their annual Jan/Feb visit from KU happens and they sell out.
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I can see KI fans going to warmer climes for games in the winter - Florida, AZ, etc. I’m wondering what season tix cost for some of these schools (buy and try to resale all but KU game).
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@cragarhawk UCF is the largest school that few have heard of. They have been the top 1-2 schools in the country by enrolment each year since 2010 (around 70,000 students the last several years). When I was there in the early 2000s they were throwing money at their football program. They spent their way into national relevance. They went undefeated in 2017 and claim a national championship that year (nobody else agrees). Their last 2 head football coaches were hired away by Nebraska and Tennessee.
Since football rules college athletics (based on $), they are a good addition to the Big 12. They will be competitive. In basketball, however, their biggest claim to fame is Michael Jordan’s son played there. Marcus was no Michael.
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@wissox In football BYU has the strongest pedigree of the 4 schools although the 3 AAC schools have all made and won NY6 bowls and obviously Cincy was the non P5 program to break through and make the playoffs. From an on field perspective, the drop-off from OU and UT to those 4 isn’t that much.
In basketball, Cincy and BYU have solid histories. Going into this season, Cincy is 11th in all time wins and BYU is 16th and I believe have the most tournament appearances without a Final Four. They were hurt by the move to the WCC from the MWC and should be a good program again pretty quickly in the B12. UCF basketball is the only turd of the group between the football and basketball programs of the 4 schools.
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The only benefit I see is Cincinnatti is a 4 hour drive from my house, maybe I could road trip it!
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@Texas-Hawk-10 atleast we can agree there is usually something about TV involved. And TV means $$. I may be wrong as I often am. But I actually believe 90 plus percent of realignment is $$ involved and thus TV involved
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Definitely a lot of folks saying we’re the clear cut number 1 overall based on the 15 quad 1 wins
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Yormark stated that we are for sure lookin at possible other Schools. Yomork say Basketball is UNDER VALUED in the latest rounds of TV right talks. Yormork hinted about separating it from football selling those rights uniquely when the Big Twelve hits the next open market 2030/31 Season
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Is that a good idea? This dude is doing a lot of free lancing. Scaring me. Idk!
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@Crimsonorblue22 said in Big12 strength:
Is that a good idea? This dude is doing a lot of free lancing. Scaring me. Idk!
Much more aggressive then our last commish.- who just let everyone pass us by. - -Not sure - sure is a gamble, we wshall see how that plays out when time comes. - One thing though I think in the immediate end we are going to see Gonzaga added for Basketball
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I think Yormark has better vision than the other conference heads. He’s come from a different background and operates differently-- and he seems to understand media markets and is in step with the interests of the networks and platforms.
If he’s thinking about separating football from basketball, he may understand that he can render more revenue by splitting a single product into a portfolio of products and sell them separately. That’s a move that could be transformative. First mover often has an advantage.
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Came across some highly unsettling news.
https://twitter.com/mizzouwrestling/status/1632612090274873344?s=46&t=PfvO214bW1XkHtm9eUlx9A
Did not realize we’d let them back in the door even if just for wrestling.
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@benshawks08 The Big12 has wrestling and allows Missouri to participate? Who knew? Weird.
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@dylans I knew they had wrestling. OSU is usually a pretty solid program nationally. Self mentions it from time to time as part of his upbringing talking about those guys as what real toughness is all about. Apparently, Mizzou rejoined the big 12 in 2021. Wish they hadn’t… Not sure KU has a wrestling team to even compete against them.
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@benshawks08 said in Big12 strength:
Came across some highly unsettling news.
https://twitter.com/mizzouwrestling/status/1632612090274873344?s=46&t=PfvO214bW1XkHtm9eUlx9A
Did not realize we’d let them back in the door even if just for wrestling.
Affiliate membership for Olympic sports is common when a conference doesn’t have enough member schools for that sport so schools from several conferences will join under the banner of a conference to compete. It’s not something unique to the Big 12 and Missouri isn’t the only SEC school to have an affiliate membership in the Big 12 for an Olympic sport.
For wrestling, Air Force, Cal Baptist, Missouri, Northern Colorado, Northern Iowa, North Dakota St., South Dakota St., Utah Valley, and Wyoming all have affiliate Big 12 membership.
Alabama and Tennessee are affiliate members for women’s rowing, and Denver and Fresno St. also have affiliate memberships in other sports as well.
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That was one of my many questions I had with so many new teams coming, water polo? Quite a few different sports.
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Report saying Big12 has reached out to Arizona, Arizona State, Colorado, and Utah. Would be a power move for certain imo
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I thought the Big 12 was the basketball power league this year?
Now I see this…
Conference breakdown in NCAA Tourney
Multi-bid leagues: Big Ten (10), SEC (8), Big 12 (7), ACC (5), Big East (5), Pac-12 (3), Mountain West (3), American Athletic (2), West Coast (2).
I know the Big 10 and SEC has 14 teams. Still… what about SOS? If SOS counts… shouldn’t we have all 10 in?
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@drgnslayr we won the sec challenge
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@drgnslayr You could make a compelling case for all 10 teams from our league getting in. Oklahoma blasts Alabama. Tech beats 3 ranked B12 teams in last month of season. Those 3 games represent more games against ranked teams that 1 ranked Houston played all year. Tech played 13 ranked teams, Oklahoma even more, 14, which is more than any team in the country.
Seems strange to say but when fans of a team don’t support their team by buying tickets and it’s a huge SEC problem, why should that league be rewarded with large numbers of bids? I know that will never fly, but Bama didn’t sell out rivalry game with Auburn.
Heck I was at a HS game last night with 8000 other fans. No it wasn’t a state championship game or state tournament game. Like an elite 8 game and fans came out in droves to UIC to watch. Lots of good college teams can’t draw like that.
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This is the last year of the meat grinder. Adding in UCF, BYU, and Cincy could make things much easier. Houston will be tough, though. Maybe a few of those bubble teams make it next year with the easier sked.
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I’m not so sure our schedule with lighten up after a few years. All these teams are being promoted to a better league and it should make a big difference on their ability to recruit.
Like I said before… no school wants to stay at the bottom every year (even KU football)! lol
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The Big 12 is diminishing in quality, there’s really no doubt about it.
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@drgnslayr said in Big12 strength:
I’m not so sure our schedule with lighten up after a few years. All these teams are being promoted to a better league and it should make a big difference on their ability to recruit.
Like I said before… no school wants to stay at the bottom every year (even KU football)! lol
The schedule changes. No home and home for every team. We might have UCF at home, and that will be the only game we get with them. We’ll have 14 teams in the league next year, so it means we will only have home and home with 5 teams at the most. It’s still an 18 game conference schedule.
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Thanks for summing it up perfectly
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Yep… I hate the idea of not getting all teams home and away. This current conference shuffle SUCKS!
It will stay this way until college basketball is beat down to low viewing #s. Someday a marketing wonk will value regional games again and a full round robin and we will be back in business again. Someday teams like UCLA and USC will play west coast again.
Trading one of our current games for a game with UCF is a pretty good start to kill interest.
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@drgnslayr I hear ya! Bummed!
