Coach Howard
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Not sure how many people in here will accept this… but if I had control over this basketball team I would pay whatever it takes to hire John Lucas II as an assistant coach. I have been proclaiming his skills as a player developer for a decade or so. Evidently the Houston Rockets heard me because that is his current job title with Houston.
Let this be the shift… away from fast talking recruiters to actual developers of players. This is such a no-brainer it isn’t funny.
John had two sons that played in the Big 12… OSU and UT. He knows the Big 12.
With Lucas on board we will always have a list of the right kind of talent to come to Kansas… and stay. We won’t need the top tier recruit to dazzle us with only athleticism. This nightmare should end. No more shoecos buying recruits to Kansas. No more plans to have undeveloped hype controlling our recruiting. No more teams coming up short because they aren’t coached up.
Okay… I’m done preaching… lol
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@jayballer67 said in Coach Howard:
@BShark said in Coach Howard:
I really hope we don’t bring back Danny. He is not good.
your 100 % wrong. - -He was one of the best at developing big men when he was here before. No one has come close ever since
What they are saying @jayballer67 is, “yeah, he did good things with our bigs” but Danny didn’t and can’t recruit. He didn’t put in the necessary time and work. Howard went to Texas. Why? Because it’ll be easy, basically recruiting in state. An easy and lucrative out for him.
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@Marco said in Coach Howard:
@jayballer67 said in Coach Howard:
@BShark said in Coach Howard:
I really hope we don’t bring back Danny. He is not good.
your 100 % wrong. - -He was one of the best at developing big men when he was here before. No one has come close ever since
What they are saying @jayballer67 is, “yeah, he did good things with our bigs” but he didn’t and can’t recruit. He didn’t put in the necessary time and work. Howard went to Texas. Why? Because it’ll be easy, basically recruiting in state. An easy and lucrative out for him.
wasn’t talking Howard here - -we were talking about bringing Danny Manning back to Coach the bigs
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@jayballer67 I know
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@jayballer67 said in Coach Howard:
@Marco said in Coach Howard:
@jayballer67 I know
ummm Danny had no problem recruiting
Are you sure?
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@Marco said in Coach Howard:
@jayballer67 said in Coach Howard:
@Marco said in Coach Howard:
@jayballer67 I know
ummm Danny had no problem recruiting
Are you sure?
ya but you can believe what ya want
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@Marco said in Coach Howard:
@jayballer67 said in Coach Howard:
@BShark said in Coach Howard:
I really hope we don’t bring back Danny. He is not good.
your 100 % wrong. - -He was one of the best at developing big men when he was here before. No one has come close ever since
What they are saying @jayballer67 is, “yeah, he did good things with our bigs” but Danny didn’t and can’t recruit. He didn’t put in the necessary time and work. Howard went to Texas. Why? Because it’ll be easy, basically recruiting in state. An easy and lucrative out for him.
This is correct. If he could be brought back in a strictly coaching role while we still have 3 guys that recruit he would be fine to add… Danny hating recruiting is well known.
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@jayballer67 said in Coach Howard:
@Marco said in Coach Howard:
@jayballer67 said in Coach Howard:
@Marco said in Coach Howard:
@jayballer67 I know
ummm Danny had no problem recruiting
Are you sure?
ya but you can believe what ya want
Danny was never a big time recruiter. He was brought in to be a player development coach after Jankovoch left for Illinois St. Dooley and Townsend were the ones landing the top talent at the time.
With Howard leaving and possibly Townsend having to leave, that’s KU’s two beat recruiters possibly leaving this season so KU needs to replace Howard with a top end recruiter.
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I’m curious as to why he is leaving KU and going to UT, basically a lateral move at a division rival who is Football school.
Could this be a situation where Self is trying to clean house and bring new coaches in the program.
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@AsadZ I already gave an opinion on this, but it might simply be that he thinks it would be cool to work with Beard and is looking forward to recruiting kids to the $300 million facility.
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I’ll also add about Howard that I believe he was very underwhelming as a recruiter which he was supposed to be one of his elite traits.
In his 8 years here, Howard only landed two 5 star players and neither one came close to the hype of their rankings. Cliff Alexander ended up being a disaster for Kansas off the court and Grimes never coming close to looking like a top 10 player in his year here.
Other than those two, McCormack is the only other top 50 recruit Howard landed for Kansas. His best overall player has to be Marcus Garrett. In 8 years, he didn’t bring in very much talent and never really was able to keep the Chicago pipeline open that’s been really good to KU under Bill Self.
I honestly don’t see losing Howard as that big of a hit. KT historically is a lot better at landing the top end talent and Norm has been much more successful at finding the diamonds in the rough.
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@Texas-Hawk-10 I thought Dotson acknowledged Howard as a big influence. Not sure. I do have Oldtimer’s disease…
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Would love to see someone with west coast connections come aboard…Aaron Miles?
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Howard recruits better then Townsend…
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@BeddieKU23 said in Coach Howard:
Howard recruits better then Townsend…
I’m gonna very strongly disagree with that one.
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@Texas-Hawk-10 said in Coach Howard:
@BeddieKU23 said in Coach Howard:
Howard recruits better then Townsend…
I’m gonna very strongly disagree with that one.
Joking
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Serious question: As a recruiter what are you selling a kid?
A rather simplistic question, I know, but are you selling the program, playing time, national TV exposure, all of the above? Or are you selling to the parents? How much weight is placed on being straight with people and how much is telling them what they want to hear? Does each team have a pre-determined philosophy about how to approach recruiting or do teams let individuals flex their independence when talking to kids?
Would love to hear from someone in the know.
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@tis4tim said in Coach Howard:
Serious question: As a recruiter what are you selling a kid?
A rather simplistic question, I know, but are you selling the program, playing time, national TV exposure, all of the above? Or are you selling to the parents? How much weight is placed on being straight with people and how much is telling them what they want to hear? Does each team have a pre-determined philosophy about how to approach recruiting or do teams let individuals flex their independence when talking to kids?
Would love to hear from someone in the know.
Most likely playing time and all of the above
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@tis4tim said in Coach Howard:
Serious question: As a recruiter what are you selling a kid?
A rather simplistic question, I know, but are you selling the program, playing time, national TV exposure, all of the above? Or are you selling to the parents? How much weight is placed on being straight with people and how much is telling them what they want to hear? Does each team have a pre-determined philosophy about how to approach recruiting or do teams let individuals flex their independence when talking to kids?
Would love to hear from someone in the know.
If a kid has pro potential, most of the selling to both the player and parents/guardians is going to be how their program can help develop a kid and get them to the next level. If a kid doesn’t have a pro future, then most of the selling will be on academics of the school such as support staff to help the kid graduate, help the kid get into some type of career post college.
When selling the kid, the along with the above stuff, a coach is going to sell the overall college experience at their school. For KU, that’s going to include McCarthy, playing in AFH, Mass St., and other stuff like that.
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Thanks for your responses. I guess I never really thought about what makes a great recruiter until now.
To be able to relate to so many different kids from so many different backgrounds and ultimately to make them feel at ease in a short amount of time is indeed a valuable skillset.
To have the ability to stand out from the crowd and make a lasting impression when a kid is talking to so many suitors is dang near priceless.
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@mayjay said in Coach Howard:
@AsadZ I already gave an opinion on this, but it might simply be that he thinks it would be cool to work with Beard and is looking forward to recruiting kids to the $300 million facility.
Not to mention basically only having to recruit in one state. If you can recruit in Texas, well, you win…
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@Marco said in Coach Howard:
@mayjay said in Coach Howard:
@AsadZ I already gave an opinion on this, but it might simply be that he thinks it would be cool to work with Beard and is looking forward to recruiting kids to the $300 million facility.
Not to mention basically only having to recruit in one state. If you can recruit in Texas, well, you win…
Basketball recruiting in Texas is not even remotely the same quality of depth as football recruiting is. There’s just simply not enough high level talent to sustain multiple P5 programs.
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Do folks think that this started strictly as Howard’s choice or is this something Self would have desired and gave some messages prompting Howard to make the move.
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@Texas-Hawk-10 said in Coach Howard:
@Marco said in Coach Howard:
@mayjay said in Coach Howard:
@AsadZ I already gave an opinion on this, but it might simply be that he thinks it would be cool to work with Beard and is looking forward to recruiting kids to the $300 million facility.
Not to mention basically only having to recruit in one state. If you can recruit in Texas, well, you win… l Basketball recruiting in Texas is not even remotely the same quality of depth as football recruiting is. There’s just simply not enough high level talent to sustain multiple P5 programs.
I didn’t say that it competed with football, but there is talent there.
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@Marco said in Coach Howard:
@Texas-Hawk-10 said in Coach Howard:
@Marco said in Coach Howard:
@mayjay said in Coach Howard:
@AsadZ I already gave an opinion on this, but it might simply be that he thinks it would be cool to work with Beard and is looking forward to recruiting kids to the $300 million facility.
Not to mention basically only having to recruit in one state. If you can recruit in Texas, well, you win… l Basketball recruiting in Texas is not even remotely the same quality of depth as football recruiting is. There’s just simply not enough high level talent to sustain multiple P5 programs.
I didn’t say that it competed with football, but there is talent there.
I never said they competed either, I said Texas doesn’t have much quality of depth. Texas might be a huge state, but the HS basketball scene here isn’t very good. 5 top 50 Texas kids in 2021 (and this includes Zach Clemence who doesn’t actually go to school in Texas) is a spike from the normal 1 or 2 Texas kids in the top 50.
2020 only had 4 top 100 kids from Texas which is pretty normal. So unless Texas landed every top player in state (never going to happen), the state of Texas does not produce enough basketball talent to sustain 1, let alone 4 power B12 programs and the AAC teams in state.
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@AsadZ I believe the split was mutual BS mentioned several times the coaching staff has to be better, not just the players
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@FarmerJayhawk wow! Yes please
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I would welcome this, if true.
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Fun fact. Oppenheimer was actually predicting Joe Dooley with his famous quote, ‘Now I am become Death, the destroyer of worlds’.
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@FarmerJayhawk said in Coach Howard:
Oh hai https://twitter.com/coachingchanges/status/1381247606786043909?s=21
I would accept that - - no problem
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@tis4tim said in Coach Howard:
Serious question: As a recruiter what are you selling a kid? A rather simplistic question, I know, but are you selling the program, playing time, national TV exposure, all of the above? Or are you selling to the parents? How much weight is placed on being straight with people and how much is telling them what they want to hear? Does each team have a pre-determined philosophy about how to approach recruiting or do teams let individuals flex their independence when talking to kids? Would love to hear from someone in the know.
I think to be a good recruiter you need to be more ears than mouth. Listen to the player and his family. Some are focused on making sure their son is in a family-like environment that is wholesome and the player’s family is kept totally in the loop, or even becoming part of the loop. We’ve even seen player’s move family to Lawrence.
For others it is all about what situation will best get the player into the league… sometimes… it’s about HOW FAST can the player get to the league! For others… who will be develop the player most while in college… then they look at strength coaching, player development, etc.
Some put the most focus on PT. Some on how well they will play with the team being assembled. Some know another player or two and are attracted to have a friend with them. Some decide for a team or coach who has shown the most interest as they developed until now. Some… chances of a NC?!
There are other reasons, too. Too many to list. So a recruiting policy shouldn’t be set in stone and only taking one approach.
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@FarmerJayhawk This will be good for KU although I was hoping that he would continue to move up the chain as HC.
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@drgnslayr said in Coach Howard:
I think to be a good recruiter you need to be more ears than mouth. Listen to the player and his family. Some are focused on making sure their son is in a family-like environment that is wholesome and the player’s family is kept totally in the loop, or even becoming part of the loop. We’ve even seen player’s move family to Lawrence. For others it is all about what situation will best get the player into the league… sometimes… it’s about HOW FAST can the player get to the league! For others… who will be develop the player most while in college… then they look at strength coaching, player development, etc. Some put the most focus on PT. Some on how well they will play with the team being assembled. Some know another player or two and are attracted to have a friend with them. Some decide for a team or coach who has shown the most interest as they developed until now. Some… chances of a NC?! There are other reasons, too. Too many to list. So a recruiting policy shouldn’t be set in stone and only taking one approach.
Thanks for the great explanation, @drgnslayr. With the vast number of combinations and permutations of things that have to align between team needs and player needs it’s no wonder some coaches don’t like the recruiting grind. Too many variables.
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Joe Dooley will remain at East Carolina
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What if Bill just permanently promotes Jeremy Case. Thoughts?
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If Bill thinks he’s the best for the job, hard to disagree.
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@FarmerJayhawk He is young, has experience before taking the other role at KU. Would imagine he understands how recruiting works.
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@BShark my other thought today was why not Wayne Simien? Has been around the program forever, an extremely charismatic dude, and bleeds crimson and blue. It may be the case he feels called to be chaplain and has no desire to coach, but I’d at least ask if he wanted to interview.
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@FarmerJayhawk I’m guessing he doesn’t want to be away from his family so much.
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@Crimsonorblue22 great point. Wayne is certainly a dedicated family man.
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Definitely very religious as mentioned. He might not have a taste for recruiting either, but I have no idea. All around great guy to have around the program.
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@FarmerJayhawk Wayne has no desire at all to coach.
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Danny Manning is now an assistant coach at Maryland. Had to imagine Self knew that Danny was looking for a spot, and likely passed.
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@BShark said in Coach Howard:
Danny Manning is now an assistant coach at Maryland. Had to imagine Self knew that Danny was looking for a spot, and likely passed.
Still think Danny would of been good for us here
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@BShark Big Yikes if when Danny is available we are promoting Jeremy Case… Says more about Danny for sure.
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Danny really doesn’t like to recruit. Hard to afford that with one of the 3 major ast positions.
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@Kcmatt7 Speaking of Case. I just recently learned that his dad was a teammate of Self at OSU.
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@BigBad said in Coach Howard:
@Kcmatt7 Speaking of Case. I just recently learned that his dad was a teammate of Self at OSU.
His dad is still in coaching as well. Case has been coaching basically since he graduate from KU.
