What we all knew was happening at Duke with Zion is finally hitting the fan.
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@Texas-Hawk-10 they will ignore it, always have and always will.
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@kjayhawks said in What we all knew was happening at Duke with Zion is finally hitting the fan.:
@Texas-Hawk-10 they will ignore it, always have and always will.
If Zion, his mom, or stepdad admit to taking benefits which will probably happen because that won’t hurt Zion’s bottom line anymore because he’s probably going to win this case.
That said, the NCAA won’t be able to turn a blind eye if those admissions come out as expected without serious repercussions coming their way, especially as they’re trying to nail KU to the wall.
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@Texas-Hawk-10 the NCAA has seemed unwilling to pursue Carolina schools in the past. North Carolina Amnesty Association is what anyone outside of NC calls it. I hope your right but will only believe it, when I see it.
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@kjayhawks said in What we all knew was happening at Duke with Zion is finally hitting the fan.:
@Texas-Hawk-10 the NCAA has seemed unwilling to pursue Carolina schools in the past. North Carolina Amnesty Association is what anyone outside of NC calls it. I hope your right but will only believe it, when I see it.
The Zion Williamson case will be too public for the NCAA to ignore without doing permanent damage to themselves. The backlash the NCAA would receive if they ignore an admission of receiving benefits in a high profile lawsuit would open themselves up litigation in regards to how they handle punishing schools and even the NCAA isn’t stupid enough to go down that road.
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@Texas-Hawk-10 they got plenty of negative press from places outside of ESPN and Fox for UNCs fake classes but it disappeared over night because most of the major sports outlets have let it die.
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@kjayhawks said in What we all knew was happening at Duke with Zion is finally hitting the fan.:
@Texas-Hawk-10 they got plenty of negative press from places outside of ESPN and Fox for UNCs fake classes but it disappeared over night because most of the major sports outlets have let it die.
The UNC case quite frankly wasn’t an NCAA issue. Offering fake classes to regular students, even if athletes were given priority took it from an NCAA matter to a Department of Education issue due to the academic fraud happening. Since those classes were made available to regular students, it really wasn’t an NCAA violation because what advantage did athletes receive that regular students didn’t in that case?
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It’s interesting that the Williamson allegations of NCAA violations only arise because Williamson sued to terminate his marketing agreement. The allegations of improper compensation while at Duke have nothing to do with the marketing contract issues, but the lawyers defending the marketing company are choosing to push Williamson’s face in the dirt by raising the allegations over improper compensation while at Duke. Some lawyers call it playing hardball and justify the tactic as doing whatever is necessary to win for their client. I’ll bet Williamson’s lawyers never warned him that he was openning up himself and his family to scrutiny (under oath) by suing to get out of the five year marketing contract.
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@stoptheflop or they told Zion and his camp and they said “f*** the brotherhood”
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ESPN has a Zion documentary about his one year at Duke entitled “Earn Everything”. Is this where they make the case that college athletes should be allowed to earn money for attending college?
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@approxinfinity of course they are smh, even tho anyone alive at this point knows he got paid. The media bias…
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@approxinfinity said in What we all knew was happening at Duke with Zion is finally hitting the fan.:
ESPN has a Zion documentary about his one year at Duke entitled “Earn Everything”. Is this where they make the case that college athletes should be allowed to earn money for attending college?
You got it, and therein lies the bias. All that ESPN and other media outlets have been doing for two years now is slamming KU, but Coach K and Duke will get a pass. Sorry, but I am not a fan of the media (sports or otherwise) in this nation - far too slanted for my taste.
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@Marco me 2 my friend
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I think the prosecution of Kansas could end up being the added pressure for the NCAA to pursue a Duke prosecution. Imagine if the NCAA nails us and turns right around and let’s Duke off the hook? Kansas and Self have already shown they are not going to back down to the NCAA and will likely pursue a federal court remedy.
There is another way to think about this. That the Duke case will save KU because the NCAA won’t want to punish Duke, so they have to let KU off the hook, too. I see this as a probable outcome. Lots of threats right now and in the end the NCAA makes some kind of verbal slap on the hands for both programs and life goes on.
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@drgnslayr said in What we all knew was happening at Duke with Zion is finally hitting the fan.:
I think the prosecution of Kansas could end up being the added pressure for the NCAA to pursue a Duke prosecution. Imagine if the NCAA nails us and turns right around and let’s Duke off the hook? Kansas and Self have already shown they are not going to back down to the NCAA and will likely pursue a federal court remedy.
There is another way to think about this. That the Duke case will save KU because the NCAA won’t want to punish Duke, so they have to let KU off the hook, too. I see this as a probable outcome. Lots of threats right now and in the end the NCAA makes some kind of verbal slap on the hands for both programs and life goes on.
sorry to disagree but there is no way KU comes out of this with a slap on the hands. I DO think this will end up in court with KU , and I don’t blame us/KU at all. I think just the opposite about the case it’self though.
I think with us being a blue blood and marquee name that this newly formed organization I think they vert well might want to make Ku as an example. I mean be the perfect scenario for them to show they are willing to lay the hammer to EVERYONE and in their eyes going to have a very strict guideline.
With the way things turned out for Oklahoma State and having only ONE violation of the type that KU has FIVE should be very alarming and a hard wake up call it’s not going to be pretty.
This thing is going to drag on by the time we go to Court and again I think that’s where this ends. when the smoke clears things may very well shake out for KU but as far as this committee giving a slap on the hands ? - -I don’t think there is any way that’s happening , Hell I’m more likely to become the next Pope before a slap on the hands.
I could very easily see a year ban from post season , some kind of restrictions on recruiting for a time and Self being suspended for a period of time
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I see this as NCAA suicide if they go after us and let Duke off the hook. KU and Self are sitting comfortably in the role of victim and that is only enhanced with the contrast created from the Duke case.
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@drgnslayr said in What we all knew was happening at Duke with Zion is finally hitting the fan.:
I think the prosecution of Kansas could end up being the added pressure for the NCAA to pursue a Duke prosecution. Imagine if the NCAA nails us and turns right around and let’s Duke off the hook? Kansas and Self have already shown they are not going to back down to the NCAA and will likely pursue a federal court remedy.
There is another way to think about this. That the Duke case will save KU because the NCAA won’t want to punish Duke, so they have to let KU off the hook, too. I see this as a probable outcome. Lots of threats right now and in the end the NCAA makes some kind of verbal slap on the hands for both programs and life goes on.
KU has acknowledged money changed hands from Adidas to multiple players to influence them to KU and isn’t challenging that part of the allegations. Probation, loss of scholarships, and vacated wins (including the 2018 FF) are probably in KU’s future regardless of how the IARP rules on the status of KU’s relationship with Adidas.
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@drgnslayr said in What we all knew was happening at Duke with Zion is finally hitting the fan.:
I see this as NCAA suicide if they go after us and let Duke off the hook. KU and Self are sitting comfortably in the role of victim and that is only enhanced with the contrast created from the Duke case.
If your holding your breath and waiting for them to do anything to Duke - - - -Good Luck. -pretty well has the writing on the wall after the Judge or whoever the hell it was granted him not having to say anything on his whole deal , where the lady was talking about improper gifts and Family. - you don’t know by now - -DUKE is the golden child of College Basketball - -the NCAA is not going to rock the boat an surely Coach K - -you have to know they DO NO WRONG
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KU played no part in those payments and were found to be victims in that process. What is alleged at Duke is Duke participated in payment to Zion’s family.
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@drgnslayr said in What we all knew was happening at Duke with Zion is finally hitting the fan.:
KU played no part in those payments and were found to be victims in that process. What is alleged at Duke is Duke participated in payment to Zion’s family.
Doesn’t matter if KU knew or not. Players received impermissible benefits and then played games for KU which means KU played ineligible players. KU has acknowledged this and are not arguing against that so they will get punishments for that. What IARP decision will affect is anything beyond what I previously said in regards to punishment. If the IARP upholds the NCAA’s case against KU, then all of those level 1 violations get upheld which brings coaching suspensions, show-cause bans, and postseason bans into play as well. Those penalties aren’t in play for what KU has acknowledged has happened.
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@Marco The majority of KU games are on ESPN or one of their platforms. Doesn’t make sense they’d want the program diminished because they make some nice money off of KU. KU is a marquee program that non-partisans will watch because it’s KU. While I have cried this bias allegation before, I am not so sure it’s really sure.
Just FYI, I’m sure you know this, but fans of most teams think their team is the victim of bias in media and of officiating, although it’d be interesting if Duke fans think the media is biased against them.
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@wissox we need a laughing emoji for this site after that comment. ESPN seldom runs anything negative about Dook or ACC/SEC teams. They hardly mentioned Suilamon’s (spelled wrong) rape. When KU finally returned to the FF in 2018 after missing the last few chances. Coach K was on the front page of the CBB men’s page with the number 1 recruiting class like the tournament didn’t exist after they got beat. The Dook media bias is without question there, I know 2 Dook fans and they even admit it.
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@kjayhawks You didn’t even respond to what I wrote. I was writing about KU all you wrote about was Duke.
For the record, I am suspicious of the NCAA and them hammering us and letting Duke walk. I’ll be pissed if that happens.
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@wissox not sure your point bud. I was elaborating toward the Dook bias my friend, I did mention KU in my response. I’ll touch base on the KU on ESPN. Yes they are on the espn family of networks often but last season with the espn plus deal, it seemed like we were on it often. Even when we were playing a ranked opponent where as Dook played most of its games on the main espn channel (regardless of opponent) giving them more exposure. If I’m not mistaken Dook played a bottom feeder in prime time while KU played a top 15 WV team on plus this season for an example. Yes plenty of people are buying the plus but the more we play there the less TVs on it nationally IMO. I only buy it basketball during season and have stopped watching espn when KU isn’t play in there because of this. I used to drive my wife nuts watch sportcenter every morning. I’m not sure how they are doing right now but they’ve laid off a fair amount of employees the last few years because I believe people are tired of the LeBron and ACC/SEC stuff like nothing else ever happens in sports.
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@kjayhawks I analyzed both teams’ schedules, along with UNC and UK, last year, and reported the numbers here. Bottom line, Duke and UNC each had roughly as many games on the ACC Network, as did UK on the SEC Network, as KU did on ESPN+. All 3 are add-ons one way or another.
It isn’t ESPN. It is the Big 12 for not having and marketing a league-wide network and letting Texas occupy the team network space.
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@Texas-Hawk-10 said in What we all knew was happening at Duke with Zion is finally hitting the fan.:
@drgnslayr said in What we all knew was happening at Duke with Zion is finally hitting the fan.:
KU played no part in those payments and were found to be victims in that process. What is alleged at Duke is Duke participated in payment to Zion’s family.
Doesn’t matter if KU knew or not. Players received impermissible benefits and then played games for KU which means KU played ineligible players. KU has acknowledged this and are not arguing against that so they will get punishments for that. What IARP decision will affect is anything beyond what I previously said in regards to punishment. If the IARP upholds the NCAA’s case against KU, then all of those level 1 violations get upheld which brings coaching suspensions, show-cause bans, and postseason bans into play as well. Those penalties aren’t in play for what KU has acknowledged has happened.
What players are you referring to exactly? The only player i’m aware of is Silvio which was through his “handler”, and he got his largest impermissible benefit from Under Armor to go to Maryland. He would never have gotten anything from Adidas if it wasn’t for UA/MD giving his handler money to begin with. All of which KU elected to sit out Silvio over a year for already.
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I’m not sure it matters what KU “acknowledged” because even KU can’t prove payments were made. At a certain point, we just said “tell us what you want us to say and we will say it.” That’s the victim role. But yes… if the proof is there then we played players that were ineligible. I think that substantiates forfeiting games. That doesn’t mean the university gets punished with loss of scholarships or post season bans or coaching penalties. Then they need to prove conspiracy.
I suggest the NCAA treat Duke similar as Kansas or it will become part of Kansas and Self’s federal case.
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@RockkChalkk said in What we all knew was happening at Duke with Zion is finally hitting the fan.:
@Texas-Hawk-10 said in What we all knew was happening at Duke with Zion is finally hitting the fan.:
@drgnslayr said in What we all knew was happening at Duke with Zion is finally hitting the fan.:
KU played no part in those payments and were found to be victims in that process. What is alleged at Duke is Duke participated in payment to Zion’s family.
Doesn’t matter if KU knew or not. Players received impermissible benefits and then played games for KU which means KU played ineligible players. KU has acknowledged this and are not arguing against that so they will get punishments for that. What IARP decision will affect is anything beyond what I previously said in regards to punishment. If the IARP upholds the NCAA’s case against KU, then all of those level 1 violations get upheld which brings coaching suspensions, show-cause bans, and postseason bans into play as well. Those penalties aren’t in play for what KU has acknowledged has happened.
What players are you referring to exactly? The only player i’m aware of is Silvio which was through his “handler”, and he got his largest impermissible benefit from Under Armor to go to Maryland. He would never have gotten anything from Adidas if it wasn’t for UA/MD giving his handler money to begin with. All of which KU elected to sit out Silvio over a year for already.
There were three players identified by the NCAA as having received impermissible benefits in their allegations against KU. Silvio was one player, Billy Preston was another player (KU probably doesn’t get much, if any, punishment for Preston since he never played a regular season game for KU), and the third player had most of the information redacted in the released version, but a name in that section led most people to believe the third player to be Cheick Diallo.
It does not matter where the money comes from, if player or representative of the player received impermissible benefits, it affects the player’s eligibility regardless of where that player is playing at. Josh Selby was suspended for about the first 1/3 (9 games) of the season for violations that Bruce Pearl committed while Selby was still committed to Tennessee.
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@drgnslayr said in What we all knew was happening at Duke with Zion is finally hitting the fan.:
I’m not sure it matters what KU “acknowledged” because even KU can’t prove payments were made. At a certain point, we just said “tell us what you want us to say and we will say it.” That’s the victim role. But yes… if the proof is there then we played players that were ineligible. I think that substantiates forfeiting games. That doesn’t mean the university gets punished with loss of scholarships or post season bans or coaching penalties. Then they need to prove conspiracy.
I suggest the NCAA treat Duke similar as Kansas or it will become part of Kansas and Self’s federal case.
You really need to re-read what I wrote because your comprehension of that post is way off. KU has acknowledged three players received money from Adidas. Two of those players played regular and post season games for KU so forfeiture of those games seems very likely regardless of anything else coming out of this case.
Where your comprehension failed you was in the next part of my post where I very clearly stated any other punishments beyond that likely hinges on the IARP ruling. If the IARP rules in the NCAA’s favor, Kansas Basketball is going to be in deep shit for a long time. A ruling in the NCAA’s favor is where the suspensions, show-causes, post-season bans, scholarship reductions, and very long probation period comes into play.
KU is going to be the second program to go through this new process to completion that involves a group with better connections and access to investigate matters than the NCAA has and allow them to determine KU’s fate. KU’s case is dependent on the FBI’s investigation that determined KU was defrauded by Gassnola and Adidas and weren’t aware of those payments being made. The NCAA has decided to take a black and white interpretation on bylaw 13.02.15 and its subsections to go after KU and rule Adidas and TJ Gassnola as boosters which is the NCAA’s justification for their claims against KU.
We have no idea how the IARP is going to interpret the NCAA’s application of their bylaws. And because we have no idea how the IARP is going to rule, KU could end up getting punished with anything from vacating the games Diallo played in, the games pre-suspension Silvio played in to just short of a death penalty and anything in between.
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@Texas-Hawk-10 said in What we all knew was happening at Duke with Zion is finally hitting the fan.:
@drgnslayr said in What we all knew was happening at Duke with Zion is finally hitting the fan.:
I’m not sure it matters what KU “acknowledged” because even KU can’t prove payments were made. At a certain point, we just said “tell us what you want us to say and we will say it.” That’s the victim role. But yes… if the proof is there then we played players that were ineligible. I think that substantiates forfeiting games. That doesn’t mean the university gets punished with loss of scholarships or post season bans or coaching penalties. Then they need to prove conspiracy.
I suggest the NCAA treat Duke similar as Kansas or it will become part of Kansas and Self’s federal case.
You really need to re-read what I wrote because your comprehension of that post is way off. KU has acknowledged three players received money from Adidas. Two of those players played regular and post season games for KU so forfeiture of those games seems very likely regardless of anything else coming out of this case.
Where your comprehension failed you was in the next part of my post where I very clearly stated any other punishments beyond that likely hinges on the IARP ruling. If the IARP rules in the NCAA’s favor, Kansas Basketball is going to be in deep shit for a long time. A ruling in the NCAA’s favor is where the suspensions, show-causes, post-season bans, scholarship reductions, and very long probation period comes into play.
KU is going to be the second program to go through this new process to completion that involves a group with better connections and access to investigate matters than the NCAA has and allow them to determine KU’s fate. KU’s case is dependent on the FBI’s investigation that determined KU was defrauded by Gassnola and Adidas and weren’t aware of those payments being made. The NCAA has decided to take a black and white interpretation on bylaw 13.02.15 and its subsections to go after KU and rule Adidas and TJ Gassnola as boosters which is the NCAA’s justification for their claims against KU.
We have no idea how the IARP is going to interpret the NCAA’s application of their bylaws. And because we have no idea how the IARP is going to rule, KU could end up getting punished with anything from vacating the games Diallo played in, the games pre-suspension Silvio played in to just short of a death penalty and anything in between.
We’re not gonna get the death penalty
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@JAYHAWKFAN214 said in What we all knew was happening at Duke with Zion is finally hitting the fan.:
@Texas-Hawk-10 said in What we all knew was happening at Duke with Zion is finally hitting the fan.:
@drgnslayr said in What we all knew was happening at Duke with Zion is finally hitting the fan.:
I’m not sure it matters what KU “acknowledged” because even KU can’t prove payments were made. At a certain point, we just said “tell us what you want us to say and we will say it.” That’s the victim role. But yes… if the proof is there then we played players that were ineligible. I think that substantiates forfeiting games. That doesn’t mean the university gets punished with loss of scholarships or post season bans or coaching penalties. Then they need to prove conspiracy.
I suggest the NCAA treat Duke similar as Kansas or it will become part of Kansas and Self’s federal case.
You really need to re-read what I wrote because your comprehension of that post is way off. KU has acknowledged three players received money from Adidas. Two of those players played regular and post season games for KU so forfeiture of those games seems very likely regardless of anything else coming out of this case.
Where your comprehension failed you was in the next part of my post where I very clearly stated any other punishments beyond that likely hinges on the IARP ruling. If the IARP rules in the NCAA’s favor, Kansas Basketball is going to be in deep shit for a long time. A ruling in the NCAA’s favor is where the suspensions, show-causes, post-season bans, scholarship reductions, and very long probation period comes into play.
KU is going to be the second program to go through this new process to completion that involves a group with better connections and access to investigate matters than the NCAA has and allow them to determine KU’s fate. KU’s case is dependent on the FBI’s investigation that determined KU was defrauded by Gassnola and Adidas and weren’t aware of those payments being made. The NCAA has decided to take a black and white interpretation on bylaw 13.02.15 and its subsections to go after KU and rule Adidas and TJ Gassnola as boosters which is the NCAA’s justification for their claims against KU.
We have no idea how the IARP is going to interpret the NCAA’s application of their bylaws. And because we have no idea how the IARP is going to rule, KU could end up getting punished with anything from vacating the games Diallo played in, the games pre-suspension Silvio played in to just short of a death penalty and anything in between.
We’re not gonna get the death penalty
Didn’t say KU would get a death penalty did I?
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I understood your post. Your most recent response exactly lays it out and I agree with you.
Yes… under duress, we agreed to accept the NCAA’s statement that Adidas is a booster in order to lower the over-penalty of Silvio. Why do you think we would put ourselves in such a position just to free a bench player?
What many see as a mistake on the part of KU… I see as a positive move. The NCAA is playing checkers while KU is playing chess and are many moves ahead. I seriously doubt that it makes a difference if KU accepts Adidas as a booster. These strong-arm bouncers hired by the NCAA to role us are going to do the same thing regardless of KU’s decision on Adidas.
When the NCAA charges hit KU we were already prepared on what to do. We are a victim in this case and we knew our strength was to stay in that role. When the NCAA extorted us to free Silvio, they did nothing but enhance our position in the victim role.
I’m certain I see through crimson/blue glasses… but I look at it this way; the way we played this definitely requires self belief in our innocence. I’ve often called Bill Self the “Riverboat Gambler” because of the way he holds his cards close to his chest and often gives vague info about the hand he is in. This is NOT how he is playing this! There is no bluff here. Way too dangerous to put Kansas in the position of relying on a bluff. No one knows the insides of this case more than Self. If we were guilty of institutional violations he wouldn’t be playing the long hand. We will see if the NCAA and their roughnecks will call on their hand or fold, but if they call, we can expect this case to extend into a federal courtroom, perhaps regardless what the NCAA does now.
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@mayjay the ACC networks is part of my cable package with Sling TV, it totals $40 a month for all my channels. I have to buy the espn plus separate.
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@kjayhawks As I said, it is an add-on somehow. Still a network that does not go to the broad distribution basic ESPN does. Where I live, we get it in the silver cable package, along with SEC network. But it is not in the cheapest cable package.
Your Sling rate is likely higher than it would be without it.
You pay for ESPN+ ala carte. People pay for ACC and SEC thru negotiated package prices.
The point is, people have to pay extra for any of these networks, so it is silly to whine about KU being on ESPN+ when the other schools also have games of similar limited viewing availability.
But that doesn’t jibe with the profound need KU fans display to feel picked on!
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@mayjay right it’s in my sports pack with 9 other channels for $15. The other issue you have just skipped over is KU playing ranked opponents on plus.
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@drgnslayr said in What we all knew was happening at Duke with Zion is finally hitting the fan.:
I understood your post. Your most recent response exactly lays it out and I agree with you.
Yes… under duress, we agreed to accept the NCAA’s statement that Adidas is a booster in order to lower the over-penalty of Silvio. Why do you think we would put ourselves in such a position just to free a bench player?
What many see as a mistake on the part of KU… I see as a positive move. The NCAA is playing checkers while KU is playing chess and are many moves ahead. I seriously doubt that it makes a difference if KU accepts Adidas as a booster. These strong-arm bouncers hired by the NCAA to role us are going to do the same thing regardless of KU’s decision on Adidas.
When the NCAA charges hit KU we were already prepared on what to do. We are a victim in this case and we knew our strength was to stay in that role. When the NCAA extorted us to free Silvio, they did nothing but enhance our position in the victim role.
I’m certain I see through crimson/blue glasses… but I look at it this way; the way we played this definitely requires self belief in our innocence. I’ve often called Bill Self the “Riverboat Gambler” because of the way he holds his cards close to his chest and often gives vague info about the hand he is in. This is NOT how he is playing this! There is no bluff here. Way too dangerous to put Kansas in the position of relying on a bluff. No one knows the insides of this case more than Self. If we were guilty of institutional violations he wouldn’t be playing the long hand. We will see if the NCAA and their roughnecks will call on their hand or fold, but if they call, we can expect this case to extend into a federal courtroom, perhaps regardless what the NCAA does now.
“I seriously doubt that it makes a difference if KU accepts Adidas as a booster.” Actually, it does because this is the basis for this entire case against KU, and also NC State and Louisville. All of the hell that is potentially coming KU’s way is centered around this decision and it’s very possible the IARP could decide KU was not coerced into making that declaration and uphold the NCAA’s decision and ruling.
Have you actually read the bylaw the NCAA is using against KU, NC State, Louisville to justify TJ Gassnola and Adidas as a booster of each program? By the letter of that specific bylaw, TJ Gassnola and Adidas fit the definition of being considered a booster for each school.
13.02.15 Representative of Athletics Interests. A “representative of the institution’s athletics interests” is an individual (TJ Gassnola), independent agency, corporate entity (e.g., apparel (Adidas) or equipment manufacturer) or other organization who is known (or who should have been known) by a member of the institution’s executive or athletics administration to: (Revised: 2/16/00, 4/25/18)
(a) Have participated in or to be a member of an agency or organization promoting the institution’s intercollegiate athletics program; (TJ Gassnola was an Adidas employing and Adidas has definitely promoted Kansas Athletics)
(b) Have made financial contributions to the athletics department or to an athletics booster organization of that institution; (How many millions of dollars has Adidas paid KU over the past 15 years?)
Be assisting or to have been requested (by the athletics department staff) to assist in the recruitment of prospective studentathletes; (See text messages between Gassnola and Self/Townsend)(d) Be assisting or to have assisted in providing benefits to enrolled student-athletes or their family members; or (See TJ Gassnola’s testimony in the Adidas trial)
(e) Have been involved otherwise in promoting the institution’s athletics program. (See the Adidas contract and TJ Gassnola’s testimony)
So by letter of the bylaw, Adidas and TJ Gassnola fit every claim the NCAA is making. KU, and I’m sure NC State and Louisville as well are going to arguing that the NCAA has never previously applied this bylaw in that manner before and has been well aware of what people like TJ Gassnola have done for year’s in regards to connecting coaches and players and that every head coach has their own versions of Gassnola they’re in contact with a very regular basis (see Mike Brey comments in an Athletic article on the implications of this accusations being upheld by the IARP). These cases are going to come down to whether the IARP rules on the letter of the bylaw or past application of the bylaw. Self interprets this bylaw differently than the NCAA is because of past precedents of this bylaw. That’s where Self’s stance comes from, not from a place of complete innocence and denial of events that have happened.
Also, the IARP is not affiliated with the NCAA so just stop with that because it’s flat out false. Why would any school agree to let the IARP decide their fate if the IARP was directly affiliated with the NCAA and give up their right to appeal a decision when going the COI route still allows for an appeal?
This is not a simple case and any decisions coming from our case, the NC State case (which should be decided before ours), and eventually the Louisville case, most likely, could have major ramifications on grassroots level basketball, specifically the AAU circuits. A ruling in the NCAA’s favor could instantly shut down AAU teams sponsored by Nike, Adidas, and Under Armour as playing on those teams could make a player ineligible to compete in NCAA competition due to other recruiting bylaws.
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@Texas-Hawk-10 Extending the definitions to its possible literal reach of the provisions you cited would be ridiculous.
Who has paid millions to KU’s program over the years? Gee, that could include the NCAA itself in licensing fees collected by its college licensing program. Who promotes KU’s program? Every television network carrying our games. Who helps provide information on recruits? Every high school coach and administrator who suggests a school might be a good fit for a particular athlete. Etc ad absurdum.
When the notion of “booster” includes anyone who does the exact same thing for numerous schools, you end up with these results. That is why courts look to many factors involved in finding “agency”, not just financial or other relationships.
Exclusivity is a classic hallmark of agency. If there, it is virtually a slam-dunk. But if not there, like it is not here, there need to be present other factors, usually including the exercise of control over the alleged agent. That is not present here, either. Authorization to perform specific acts can create agency, but courts do not generally lean toward agency when an independent actor engages in expressly unauthorized activities.
I have said it before: Since express authorization is not there, and neither are exclusivity and control, the NCAA is trying to say KU is responsible because Adidas employees acted as KU’s boosters in committing illegal activities, which KU is responsible for because KU should have known the booster was acting on our behalf by committing illegal acts, even though KU was found by a court to be acts unknown to KU and contrary to our financial and eligibility interests, and KU committed level 1 violations by not supervising and preventing the rogue Adidas employees from doing those things.
Tenuous and a tortured bootstrapping at best. I am not saying we will win, because there are a lot of result-oriented lawyers out there who don’t know crap about agency. I do think it is more likely the IARP (?) will reach a correct conclusion than the NCAA would have.
I also think the NCSt case gives the IARP a good chance to make the opposite finding since, if I recall correctly, their assistant coach handled some of the money.
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@mayjay I’m merely pointing out what the NCAA’s logic and justification, not their hypocrisy.
An upholding of the ruling that an apparel company and its representatives as boosters would completely alter college and amateur athletics. I would recommend reading an article from the Athletic talking about the potential ramifications of upholding the NCAA’s case for apparel companies as boosters.
Realistically, what the NCAA needs to do is create two new sections to deal with corporate sponsors and apparel manufacturers.
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@mayjay The NC State assistant allegedly did handle money, yes. Louisville’s case too, bigtime coach and or coaches involvement - KU, not so much; unless you count heresay and fortune telling. I disagree with many on this, but feel that we won’t receive much of anything. Vacated wins and loss of scholarships, tops.
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@Marco said in What we all knew was happening at Duke with Zion is finally hitting the fan.:
@mayjay The NC State assistant allegedly did handle money, yes. Louisville’s case too, bigtime coach and or coaches involvement - KU, not so much; unless you count heresay and fortune telling. I disagree with many on this, but feel that we won’t receive much of anything. Vacated wins and loss of scholarships, tops.
boy - – -wish I could think like you - - - BUTTTTT umm not so much , they are looking to make an example out of KU. I’m telling you this whole scenario is the perfect setup for these people, they want to show that they are not going to put up with any Bullshit , and KU will drag these people’s ass to court – this is going to drag on for a LONG time before it’s all said and done
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I respect your overall knowledge of this case. You know more than I do. Most of what I share is based on my personal experience with the civil court. Letter of the law is important, but the spirit of the law counts, too. From what I see in this, Kansas has a great position in a courtroom, especially a federal courtroom.
Don’t you think Kansas expected it would be used against them to accept Adidas as a booster? Were we so desperate to get a bench player back? You know the answer to that. We were strong-armed into that move. We are heroes for coming to the defense of our player who was “played” by the NCAA.
Take a break from reading bylaws, stand back and develop the narrative of this case. That will be a better representation of what Kansas will deliver in court.
Our world would be so much more dangerous if courts only used the letter of the law. Just think at all those wordy disclosures each of us sign off on to use a website or install a piece of software. If we only used letter of the law those lengthy “legal documents” would turn us all into serfs.
And the NCAA turning to use a third-party group of legal goons is not going fair well in court either. Just my opinion. I suspect any finding they come up with will warrant a monster financial penalty. Once again, we are victims and they have us in a position to strong-arm us, and they did! What is the real purpose of a third-party being involved? It’s setting up a kangaroo court stacked with goons! Not going to play well in a federal court. ’
Imagine you decided to use a piece of software you bought on an extra computer and were not allowed to do so in the legal blurb you “accepted” when first using that software company’s software. On line 3847, it says clearly in legal talk that you can’t do that and you have accepted them as becoming a private member of their organization. They catch what you did and they’ve setup a bogus group of thugs to decide your fate.
Do you realize how a decision in the NCAA’s favor here would most likely change everything in our society, for the negative? It would give a path for corporatism to smash us all like ants (further). If the NCAA wins in a lower court, it’s a clear case for appeal continually until reaching the Supreme Court (if necessary).
I think the NCAA will eventually smell the roses and will back down. Hopefully, sooner rather than later. This should be negotiated to somehow allow both sides to save face and move on.
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@drgnslayr said in What we all knew was happening at Duke with Zion is finally hitting the fan.:
I respect your overall knowledge of this case. You know more than I do. Most of what I share is based on my personal experience with the civil court. Letter of the law is important, but the spirit of the law counts, too. From what I see in this, Kansas has a great position in a courtroom, especially a federal courtroom.
Don’t you think Kansas expected it would be used against them to accept Adidas as a booster? Were we so desperate to get a bench player back? You know the answer to that. We were strong-armed into that move. We are heroes for coming to the defense of our player who was “played” by the NCAA.
Take a break from reading bylaws, stand back and develop the narrative of this case. That will be a better representation of what Kansas will deliver in court.
Our world would be so much more dangerous if courts only used the letter of the law. Just think at all those wordy disclosures each of us sign off on to use a website or install a piece of software. If we only used letter of the law those lengthy “legal documents” would turn us all into serfs.
And the NCAA turning to use a third-party group of legal goons is not going fair well in court either. Just my opinion. I suspect any finding they come up with will warrant a monster financial penalty. Once again, we are victims and they have us in a position to strong-arm us, and they did! What is the real purpose of a third-party being involved? It’s setting up a kangaroo court stacked with goons! Not going to play well in a federal court. ’
Imagine you decided to use a piece of software you bought on an extra computer and were not allowed to do so in the legal blurb you “accepted” when first using that software company’s software. On line 3847, it says clearly in legal talk that you can’t do that and you have accepted them as becoming a private member of their organization. They catch what you did and they’ve setup a bogus group of thugs to decide your fate.
Do you realize how a decision in the NCAA’s favor here would most likely change everything in our society, for the negative? It would give a path for corporatism to smash us all like ants (further). If the NCAA wins in a lower court, it’s a clear case for appeal continually until reaching the Supreme Court (if necessary).
I think the NCAA will eventually smell the roses and will back down. Hopefully, sooner rather than later. This should be negotiated to somehow allow both sides to save face and move on.
The IARP is not a court room and they aren’t “NCAA goons” as you keep trying to refer to them as. They are not an extension of the NCAA because if they were, why in the hell would any school agree to have their case go that route knowing they can’t appeal a ruling? The IARP is more in line with an arbitration or mediation since BOTH parties involved have to agree to it and it has to be approved by the IARP to be reviewed. Out of the 3 cases that the IARP has accepted so far, the NCAA only recommended two of them to go that route (NC State and KU), while Memphis was the one who requested it for the James Wiseman case.
The IARP also does their own investigation of cases and since their investigators have much more powerful connections than the NCAA, their investigation is likely to be much more thorough and in-depth than the NCAA’s investigation. Their investigators include connections to the FBI, IRS, and other federal agencies so they have the ability to gain access to records and documents the NCAA can’t get ahold of.
You do realize that I’ve referenced an article from the Athletic multiple times in regards to the potential impact an IARP ruling in the favor of the NCAA in regards to the booster status of Adidas on amateur sports would have, so clearly I’m aware of those ramifications.
Even though KU and Self have threatened legal action in the event of an unfavorable ruling, I’m not sure any court is going to take the case because of the caveat of both parties agreeing to let the IARP decide a case is unappealable. It’s very likely a court would toss out any motion to appeal, from either side, citing that both parties entered into an agreement to let an independent third party decide a case and neither side could appeal the ruling.
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https://www.facebook.com/460433434150081/posts/1343120839214665/?d=n
So Zion was paid 400k? Does anyone know if this story is legit?
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@rockchalkwyo said in What we all knew was happening at Duke with Zion is finally hitting the fan.:
https://www.facebook.com/460433434150081/posts/1343120839214665/?d=n
So Zion was paid 400k? Does anyone know if this story is legit?
alot that you see posted off face book are fake
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@jayballer73 said in What we all knew was happening at Duke with Zion is finally hitting the fan.:
@rockchalkwyo said in What we all knew was happening at Duke with Zion is finally hitting the fan.:
https://www.facebook.com/460433434150081/posts/1343120839214665/?d=n
So Zion was paid 400k? Does anyone know if this story is legit?
alot that you see posted off face book are fake
It’s the 24/7 article on it linked from Facebook.
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@rockchalkwyo said in What we all knew was happening at Duke with Zion is finally hitting the fan.:
https://www.facebook.com/460433434150081/posts/1343120839214665/?d=n
So Zion was paid 400k? Does anyone know if this story is legit?
Sounds like this is not true from what I’ve read. Zions lawyers are arguing it is forgery and that they have a pattern of forgery.
His argument, without seeing any of the documentation, sounds legit. I.e. signatures don’t match. Just the signature part is pixilated more than the rest of the documents, etc.
Sounds like a desperate attempt by the marketing agency. They would have had this evidence sooner.
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@wrwlumpy Haven’t seen you on in a while. Hope you’re ok.
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@Kcmatt7 This has some details of the alleged fraudulent stuff. The driver’s license is pretty funny!
https://collegebasketball.nbcsports.com/2020/07/09/zion-williamson-lawsuit-fraudulent/
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@Texas-Hawk-10 said in What we all knew was happening at Duke with Zion is finally hitting the fan.:
The IARP also does their own investigation of cases and since their investigators have much more powerful connections than the NCAA, their investigation is likely to be much more thorough and in-depth than the NCAA’s investigation. Their investigators include connections to the FBI, IRS, and other federal agencies so they have the ability to gain access to records and documents the NCAA can’t get ahold of.
I think you need to read what you wrote here. The FBI doesn’t even have access to IRS records. I will keep them called a"goon squad." “Connections?” We have laws protecting the public against “connections.”
The federal investigation in this case should have the highest authority in an investigation.
Self and Kansas will have the ability to sue and the authority of IARP can be challenged in a federal courtroom. There could come other remedies, too, including financial remedies.
So you think Self, Kansas and their legal counsel would walk right into a firing squad?
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Thanks for the link.
The DL story is hilarious! That ID wouldn’t allow you to buy alcohol.
I more enjoyed the story that follows:
“The intrigue into Zion Williamson’s lawsuit is about smearing Duke basketball’s image”
The writer has his head shoved so far up Duke’s backside he doesn’t even know that article does a better job of convincing people that Duke is dirty, than clean.
"The people that care this case care about catching Coach K in a lie. They care about proving that the holier-than-thou way that Duke carries itself is fraudulent. They care about finding a way to get something — anything — to stick to the program that recruits better than anyone else in an era where recruiting is the Wild, Wild West.
Do you remember when Lance Thomas dropped $30,000 in cash as a down payment for $67,800 in jewelry a year before Thomas and Duke won the 2010 national title? Nothing came of it. Remember when Corey Maggette admitted to receiving payments from Myron Piggie before becoming a member of the team that made it to the 1999 national title game? Nothing came of that, either. Nothing happened when Wendell Carter’s name popped up on expense reports submitted by Christian Dawkins. Nothing happened when Michael Avenatti alleged that Nike paid Marvin Bagley’s family."
Yep… we remember. Thanks for flaunting those stories again and how Duke can get away with these situations without lifting an eyebrow from the NCAA. We’ll remember those stories along with seeing the upgraded house rented by Zion’s family during his one year at Duke while we get strong-armed by the NCAA’s paid assassins.
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@mayjay said in What we all knew was happening at Duke with Zion is finally hitting the fan.:
@Kcmatt7 This has some details of the alleged fraudulent stuff. The driver’s license is pretty funny!
https://collegebasketball.nbcsports.com/2020/07/09/zion-williamson-lawsuit-fraudulent/
Smh
