KU vs Fizzou?
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Oftentimes is not what you do but how you do it. MU went begging the Big 10 for admission with the governor publicly asking only to be turned down. When everything appeared to be settled, MU moved to the SEC at a critical time for the conference placing it, and by extension KU, in a precarious situation that almost led to the end of the conference. There is no question they did it knowing well the problems they were creating, so I say the Big 12 teams owe Missouri nothing but contempt for their dastardly deed.
KU did not play them when they could have beaten them by 50 points and now that they think they might have a good team they want to play again and get some respectability and exposure? I say screw them, good bye and good riddance.
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somewhere Kim English is laughing or crying, whichever one comes first
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I’m pretty sure that if Misery showed up on the schedule it would become all of our most anticipated game of the year. That’s why we should play them.
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I think one important fact is that it was actually the Missouri governor (Jay Nixon) that opened his mouth about the Big 10 – referencing the infamous comparison between Wisconsin/Northwestern and OSU/TT academically. The Big 10 had an expansion committee and MU was one of the teams on their radar. I’m not saying MU is right. Nor that they operated ethically in dealing with their Big 12 partners. I’m agreeing with the opposite conclusion. That they did not handle this correctly, or ethically.
What I am saying is to look at our responses to that. We have control of that – “I hope to never see them again” or “screw them.” Just recent examples of what many have said. Heck, I’ve said something similar at a time I’m sure. I guess that might be reasonable in the immediate aftermath, but now? I don’t know on the timing. But we are now 5+ years out.
And one thing is for sure. MU’s decision to leave the Big 12 was smart. Very smart. If the Big 10 came calling now, you think we might consider jumping, assuming legal entanglements might be overcome? Perhaps we might just do it a different way.
Maybe time to … slowly … let … it … go.
We’re just really better than the prolonged bitterness. At least I think we are. But so be it.
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I remember the Big 10 saying after the smoke cleared when Nebraska was picked over Missouri, that their big mistake was not picking KU. During all of the jockeying, the speculation, of what would happen to KU when the Conference broke up was: We would entertain offers from the American Conference, the Mountain West, and the Conference USA. Self then said that the PAC-12 would take KU and we all began to wonder about the country not seeing any of our games until after 10 pm.
Being moved to a Mid-Major conference or playing after midnight would have the part of the country that resides East of the Rocky Mountains not watching the Jayhawks or DVRing the games to watch later. MU loved the situation we were in, ruining the best basketball program in the country over $. The Antlers, The Campus racism, the three consecutive criminal coaches before Kim Anderson who played with no recruits makes it unacceptable to me for the present time to reward them with the exposure they would receive and $ by once again having KU allow them to be on our schedule. Someday, and it will probably be sooner than later, KU will be faced with a tournament that schedules them against KU, be it the NCAA or the SEC Challange, then we’ll play them. Can you imagine Self’s practice before that game?
The emotions of the last game.
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@HighEliteMajor said “Maybe time to … slowly … let … it … go.”
I have let it go. That is why, since there is no longer a rivalry among conference companions, I only think about this when someone gets all energized about playing them.
Your analogy about a betrayed spouse is a really good one: excellent, in fact. But I don’t see KU as the embittered victim chain-smoking and guzzling in a dark bar while reliving the injury and bemoaning the betrayer.
Instead, I see KU as the spouse who goes on to live a great life, building excitement and spreading goodwill everywhere we go. MU is the spouse who walked out, finds out it is cold and lonely out there, and wants to leech off what KU has created while whining that KU is being vindictive for having the temerity to ignore their pitiful entreaties.
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If Missouri can start winning consistently I wouldn’t mind KU playing them again. Not that my input on the subject really matters, but w/e. Last year they would have been the worst team KU played probably. Note that not many Missouri fans were dying to play KU last year.
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Agree with this, until they become relevant we gain nothing by playing them. This year might have been the only time they have some decent talent to compete with.
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@mayjay I like the visuals.
However, who is the one that is bitter and angry?
They’re (MU) fine moving on. They’re happy to make peace and enjoy their son’s wedding together (to further the analogy).
We, on the other hand. don’t want to sit near them, won’t stand together for pictures after the ceremony, and won’t interact.
Bitter. Angry. Unseemly.
Hey, if the KU/MU rivalry wasn’t worth it … meaning the enjoyment doesn’t outweigh one’s bitterness, then ok. That’s how your (and other’s) position make sense.
I would point out that, for example, parents of murdered children have come to forgive the murderer. I can’t imagine being that forgiving. The scales would work against forgiveness for me on that one.
This is truly an “opinion” issue here. Our life has been good without MU, no doubt. Things just smell better when they aren’t around.
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Do you really think Governor Nixon made his (extremely stupid) statement about MU joining the Big 10 without checking with the university? I seriously doubt this and it was approached this way to send a message that the state government would support the move.
Frankly, I don’t believe MU was ever under consideration by the Big 10 since it is a middle of the road school with no national reputation in any area and whatever little they had going in the school of journalism, was gone after what has transpired in the last few years. The Big 10 added Maryland and Rutgers, schools that dwarf MU in every area including market size. I have heard and read numerous times over the last few years that the Big 10 feels it should have added KU instead of Nebraska and it is possible, maybe even likely, that if the Big 12 folds, KU ends up in the Big 10…MU, no way.
Even Missouri residents are no longer applying to attend MU and it has experienced a dramatic drop in student body size to the point that it had to close several dorms at a time when every comparable school is growing and expanding. Why would we want restart playing a school that has lost so much prestige lately? It would only help validate them become relevant again with no upside for KU.
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Hypothetically if the KU/MU rivalry was turned back on today would it matter to the players?
Enough years have passed now where the connection to playing them annually is gone. Nobody is teaching the freshman to hate Missouri from day-1 anymore.
Do you think this is a rivalry where it can just be turned on- like a flip of a switch. Or like riding a bike you haven’t rid in 5+ years.
I’m sure it would be easy for the fans to build this up but how easy would it be to motivate KU players? They don’t play them in conference anymore so a part of the importance of beating Missouri is gone. Would anyone care playing them once a year in a meaningless non-conference game?
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I think we should play Mizzou. I have always thought we should play them.
This is a big rivalry. Our current rival is KSU, a rivalry that literally does not matter outside the state of Kansas. This hurts especially in football, where our relevance outside of Kansas is pretty low. KU needs to play Mizzou in all sports, but especially men’s and women’s basketball, and in football. This rivalry is beneficial.
Think about it like this. The last weekend of the football season (Thanksgiving weekend) KU and MU play at Arrowhead on Thursday or Saturday.
The week after Christmas, play them in basketball (or put it the first week of December, a week after the football game) in a double header (men and women) at the Sprint Center.
Those are games that are (hopefully) regionally and nationally relevant, as opposed to just within the state.
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I think the chance to renew it passed. Should have played the last two years. MU at KU in football and KU at MU in basketball. Could have given both schools an easy win and an even nicer revenue bump.
But now, KU football is on the rise and MU basketball has potential this year. No reason for either program to risk an embarrassment.
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@JayHawkFanToo Big 10 didn’t care about on field performance for their expansion, as evidenced by adding Rutgers and Maryland who were terrible in both football and basketball at the time. They only cared about adding new TV markets for their BTN which Rutgers which added NYC and Maryland which added DC and Baltimore. The B10 was wanting KC since Illinois already gave them enough of a presence in St. Louis, and Nebraska claimed they could deliver KC better than Missouri could. Nebraska hasn’t done that very well so when the B10 inevitably goes to 16, KU will be in good position to be added for their market share in KC.
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Missouri left and tried to destroy the B12 in the process and has been begging to restart the series since then. As much as I miss the series, why should KU do any favors for a school that tried to put KU in a bad position?
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Who is MU ???
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I hope to continue a yearly game with Kentucky. I hope to continue to see Duke on the schedule. I hope MSU continues to pop up on the schedule. I hope when Roy retires KU schedules UNC. I hope UCLA can stay good so it’s worth starting a series with them. I hope Mizzou stays off the schedule.
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@HighEliteMajor I love extending analogies! But in this case, I think it is more similar to a wedding where the drunk philandering ex-husband keeps trying to give hugs to all the ex-wife’s relatives, and can’t understand the looks of disgust he gets. And, yeah, no one is comfortable with trying to force everyone into group pictures. Especially the happy couple!
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If Misery wants to play us, then I suggest they win some games, and the NCAA tournament committee will oblige. Of course, having Cuonzo as coach is no guarantee that will happen, no matter who they sign. Whoever we play on our schedule is blessed- we are one of the greatest attractions in America. We sell tickets where ever we go. Misery coming to town would generate the same number of tickets sold in AFH as if we were playing Siena, or UNC Ashville. So, we wouldn’t make a dime off playing that rinky dink team with their horrible fan base. Of course, our players are missing out on the joy of playing in an arena where batteries are thrown at them, and racial taunts are SOP. They chose to end the rivalry, and we have now replaced them with an annual game with the team that regularly whips their ass, and wins their conference ( 'Tucky ). I would personally rather play the SEC conference champ than the doormat.
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In my post I did not mention sports at all. The Big 10 has always claimed to be about academic performance first and MU does not fit the mold and Nebraska barely does.
The latest expansion was all about markets and Rutgers with a student body twice as large as MU and the huge New York market and Maryland with the huge D.C.-Baltimore corridor were frankly no brainers.
Anyone that does marketing knows the KC metro area is all KU and neither MU or Nebraska can deliver it like KU can, that was the mistake they made but Nebraska had a solid football program while KU…not so much. Nebraska was added purely based on the potential of its football program but that was done in an earlier expansion.
Sports wise, Maryland is a powerhouse compared to MU having won men and women basketball titles in this century while MU never has even smelled a Final Four and men’s basketball was already on its way back to being respectable. Maryland just swept men and women Lacrosse titles, a sport that is big on the North East and has the top swimming program in the East Coast among other sports.
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I couldn’t agree more. What does KU really gain by playing MU? I’m confused why so many think KU is obligated to play MU because of the long history between the two schools. Like somehow KU is acting butt hurt for not playing MU? I kind of feel KU and MU have played so long because they had too. You know being in the same conference. Hell I’m one of those that is glad that MU left.
MU did me a favor by leaving. The way I see it. MU and it’s fans lived off the rivalry between KU to stay relevant in the Kansas City market. As usually and par for the course MU thought they were bigger than they really are. They thought they owned the St. louis market and Kansas City market. Their the ones that believed they were the cats meow when the SEC came calling. They believed they were the big dogs of the college world. They just didn’t realize they gave up their virginity to the two bit suit SEC. The SEC used MU like a the fat wall flower with a rich daddy.
Here is the reality folks “Don’t blame KU for not wanting to play MU” News flash nobody wants to play MU.
There is nothing to be gained. In many ways KU kept MU legit in their own backyard. Why should KU extend that hand again?
Doesn’t make sense to me.
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@DoubleDD AGREE wholeheartedly
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Question, and to my original point, did anyone gain significant enjoyment related to the games with MU and the rivalry? That’s what is to be gained. That’s point of being a fan, right?
If you say no; or yes, but that MU’s dastardly deeds outweigh that’ significant enjoyment of games and the rivalry, then I get it.
My point is not to look at MU, and what it does for them, or helping them. Look at what it does for us. And if that’s not much, then the opinion is pretty easy to arrive at.
Some of the comments seem very MU focused. Who cares about MU? I think the focus should be what it does for us.
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@HighEliteMajor The games meant something because we were competing to win a conference championship. That great game you referenced was meaningful because it decided the conference championship. Take that away, and we might as well be playing UNC Ashville ( if they had a nasty fanbase that talks s*** all the time ).
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@KUSTEVE I guess then the fact that our rivalry was longest standing rivalry in all college sports (or close to that), back to before world war I, back to the civil war (before the playing field) means nothing then? For reference Border War. If that’s how you feel, that’s how you feel. Anyone who has grown up with KU sports despises MU.
I don’t get it.
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To be honest as a KU fan I just never felt that. I always looked at MU as somebody we had to play. Never seen them as a rivalry. I know history says it was so. I just never seen it that way. Just seen MU as another school trying to bank off playing KU.
A good rivalry demands a certain amount of respect between those two schools or teams. I never seen that in the MU and KU so called rivalry. In fact MU comes across as very racist and and and just bad.
That’s just me.
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@HighEliteMajor “I think the focus should be what it does for us.”
Good point. And, for those of us who say the answer is “Nothing!” the conclusion is simple.
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@HighEliteMajor Now, let me add that I have no connections to the area anymore, and live in SC. If I had to interact with MU people all the time, I concede I might be more excited about smashing their dreams on a yearly basis.
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@HighEliteMajor And that’s the price Misery paid by pulling out of the rivalry. Out of the conference. I think about our annual game in the Champion’s Classic, and I don’t have the same feeling about Dook and Sparty that i do when we’re playing Baylor for the conference lead. Yes, I definitely want to win, but it isn’t as crushing as a conference loss if we lose. Tucky is different in my mind, as they are a long time rival over decades, and their mouthy fans deserve and need a good whipping to keep them in line. So you propose we copy the Misery Tigers, and play them annually like they do Illinois? If we did that, that might be the only time Misery would get a game on national tv before conference. I really don’t want to help Misery get exposure by trading off our brand. I assure you, it would not be the same game- it wouldn’t look the same, and it definitely wouldn’t feel the same. Just my 2 cents worth.
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I would support reconnecting with Fizzouri on two conditions:
a.) after a Nuremberg Sports Crimes trial has fully investigated and handed down just verdicts on Fizzouri; and
b.) chemtrails have successfully saturated us all with sufficient conductive particles that the Deep State is now in total control of our volition and what happens no longer matters.
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I didn’t grow up around this rivalry so my answer may differ from those that live in the KU/MU area. Now since I was a boy I’ve disliked Missouri, still do, but since they have left the Big-12 they have become irrelevant in College Basketball.
While your question was to focus on what KU gains from it, it does seem so one-sided to MU’s benefit with the current situation of both teams. They fell off the basketball landscape moving to the SEC. Why should we care to play a team that sucks? Not that its the real reason Missouri Basketball sucks but one could infer that Missouri was relevant because of Kansas. So why would we help them?
Does playing Missouri help us win championships? Does it help prepare us to win the Big-12? Does it help our seeding, RPI etc. I don’t believe it does.
I enjoyed the rivalry for what it was but currently all KU cares about is continuing the conference title streak and winning NCAA championships. In that mindset playing Missouri does not help us accomplish either.
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@BeddieKU23 @KUSTEVE I am in the clear minority here, and I think elsewhere. The KU fans I associate with seem to have the same split opinion-wise and most don’t want to renew the rivalry.
@DoubleDD Don’t be fooled. MU is not “racist.” A complete fiction. The entire deal was escalated by false claims and half truths. I’m not an MU defender of course, but the real story was the pathetic response and approach to the b.s. by the administration – and that gives you a 25% drop in enrollment.
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You are not wrong for wanting the rivalry back. We currently don’t have a true rival like most programs across the country have.
Kansas St is a laughable excuse for one in MU’s absence and Iowa St has matched on-court performance with KU for the last 3-4 years but we’re always thinking Iowa St is going to fall back down without Hoiberg and this year looks like that will happen. The Elijah Johnson year seemed to spark something. But I’m not sure Prohm is the type of coach that becomes a villain for KU fans. Their fan-base is nutty but that’s just the effect of trying to compete with KU.
I guess in my opinion since Missouri left we have further distanced ourselves from them in everything basketball related. I do admit, if Missouri had a consistent program that was worth playing and added value to KU’s program to play them I’d be all for it. Otherwise let them rot.
Question, will this even matter if in the not so distant future KU is looking for another conference itself? We seem to be heading to that inevitability unless some measures are taken by the powers in this conference.
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Sun Tzubate 1.0: Wanting to renew the rivalry with an old enemy is akin to a moment of crazed weakness, during a romantic drought, when one considers having sex with a promiscuous ex-wife that one knows has contracted an incurable STD.
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Sun Tzubate 1.0: College basketball is not like a nation state, where one must keep creating enemies to sustain pork for a military industrial complex. In college basketball, the shoe, TV and tournament revenues continue with, or without, enemies.
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KSU might be laughable but always manages to give KU tough games.
I believe ISU and KU are 5-5 in the last 10 meetings and ISU is ahead 3-2 in the last 5…that is a pretty decent rivalry. Also, if Hoiberg is canned by the Bulls there is a good chance he goes back to Ames and the rivalry gets even more heated.
Against WSU KU is 6-4 in the last 10 and 3-2 in the last 5 and this could be a very good rivalry.
…so, why is it again that we need or want MU?
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IDK…i’d rather not play them. last thing we want to do is play them like we did with WSU and lose. We can’t hang our heads high around shockers anymore…last thing we need is Fizzou fanboys constantly needling us.
we don’t have anything to gain and all to lose. i’d say no ways.
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@elpoyo Lmao seriously? Shockers are 3-13 against us all time. I don’t think they beat us that game with Ellis healthy and big Cliff able to play. You look at WSU in that game and there’s no way they win minus a starter and another one not a 100%. They ended up the better team that day so congrats to team ig. I think the last 2 years with B2B elite eights shows what we could’ve done in 14 and 15 with all of our players but hey that’s life.
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@elpoyo You get a kick out of how angry people get over your comments. I’m pretty sure that’s why you troll this site. Troll.
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@KUSTEVE It’s irrational, but it’s true that most fans remember the wins that give them confidence and pleasure and forget the losses. Here in Kansas, WSU is the best example: WSU fans get to look at the New Orleans win over Valentine’s team and the win over Ellis and feel great about their program. We know it’s only two games that could have and should have gone differently. But, those two games always will put smiles on the faces of the WSU fans. KU fans do the same thing: Football victory over Missouri and BB victories over Kentucky, Duke, etc. But, elpoyo’s reluctance to play the games means you don’t even have a chance to crow and feel good with a victory. That is WSU’s complaint with KU; we won’t play them and give them their one in ten chance to win and get bragging rights. It doesn’t matter to WSU fans that they will lose 9 out of 10 games; they only hope for the one win. I’m still feeling that way about the Texas football win.
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I’ve always said we should play WSU each season. They’re a real program, national program, and they have a nice villain as their head coach (to most KU fans). Play them home and home. Much more fun than playing at Nebraska (the first team to bolt the Big 12 by the way for the “they tried to destroy the conference and thus we should play them” majority opinion). And a better program than Nebraska by far.
But then again, my logic of enjoying a rivalry thing doesn’t seem to resonate. We can find every reason not to play them, as I’ve seen here over the years. But one good reason to play them is to kick their a** and shut them up.
The fact is, we can make excuses about 2014. They kicked our tails. With all due respect @kjayhawks, we lost tourney games with Ellis healthy and a comparable player (Black) in the lineup (see Stanford). And WSU was better than Stanford. WSU dominated the game.
But we won’t play them because we don’t need to. Or whatever. But we’ll go play at Nebraska. Double hypocrisies.
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Alas, I remember the loss in the 1968 Orange Bowl and Jojo’s disallowed shot more than the good times. It is something I would truly like to change about myself!!!
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KUSTEVE said:
@elpoyo You get a kick out of how angry people get over your comments. I’m pretty sure that’s why you troll this site. Troll.
ditto and I didn’t even scroll up to read chickens comments
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@HighEliteMajor I agree that they kicked or tails and anything else is indeed an excuse. I’m not sure I agree with the 15 WSU team beating the 14 Stanford team , Stanford was super tall. KU dominated on the boards against WSU in that game being pretty even on size. KU without Cliff had no offense whatsoever down low, I don’t mean to bag on LL and Traylor that game but they sucked up the place. Wessel went nuts and hit 3 after 3 while shooting just over 30% on the year. I’ll take Black over LL any day of the week no question in my mind especially over sophomore LL. Black avg 6 and 4 in 14 minutes playing with a 7 footer (that was an absolute stud) most the time, senior LL only avg 8 and 8 in 26 minutes sophomore was 3 and 4 in 15 minutes. So I’d say its a pretty save bet Black or Cliff would’ve fared better than LL in 2015, who if we are rating bigs that played meaningful minutes he comes in dead last. Sorry i love all the hawks but LL wasn’t a D1 guy, he had no athletic ability. There was a reason last years opposing big man after big man had career nights against him. In regards to playing them I don’t really care, no one has a winning record against us that plays us year after. Look at our conference foes and former foes. WVU is is the only within a country mile of .500 against us because they’ve only played us a hand full of times. Playing a power 5 school like Nebraska always looks better on paper and when this series was made Nebraska had just ended their NCAA drought. A mid major is a no win on a home and home schedule. Self has done it a time or 2 but mostly its when we are recruiting a kid from the mid majors area. We already get the best players in Kansas. WSU is headed down ward IMO, they will have to play teams on a regular basis inside the top 150, which they didn’t in the Valley, I think its easy ti be healthy in march playing a Juco SOS and resting playing the final 8 minutes all year.
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S-E-C! S-E-C! S-E-C! Muck Fizzou! I reside and pay taxes in this sorry basketball state, but I stand with Bill Self on the issue of not scheduling games with the the Tigers. If KU is forced to play them in a tournament, so be it; parade their bloodied heads on a comedian’s stick. But I hope Kansas never again opts to schedule that sorry turncoat program. Fizzou danced merrily away from century-old tradition and match-ups. Let John Cal and cohorts deal with them…and their new league of choice issue sanctions when once again they self destruct.
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@kjayhawks Although RPI is not worth a lot – WSU was 29, Nebraska 111 last season. The quality of program isn’t even close. We can make all of our excuses or rationalizations, but Self is ducking WSU. For every reason not to play, there is a counter argument, or example, that defeats it or shows its hypocrisy.
Interesting that playing Nebraska on the road exposes both the WSU hypocrisy and the MU hypocrisy all in one.
Its not a “no win” situation to play home and home with WSU. If we win, we win. And it looks better at the end of the season to have a WSU road win than a Nebraska road win.
I was quite sure someone would want to claim Stanford was better. They were a 10 seed that got beat by Dayton in its next game. They lost 13 games.
Remember all the KU whining when we played WSU – that WSU was seeded too low as a 7? That we somehow got screwed playing them?
It’s all just opinion of course on who was better.
But I don’t think its really opinion that beating WSU on the road is more impressive to the selection committee than beating Nebraska on the road, and losing to WSU on the road is less harmful than losing to Nebraska on the road (using the last 5 seasons and this coming season as examples).
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@HighEliteMajor I agree with some of what you are saying. Stanford wasn’t a great team bye any stretch, but they played a D1 SOS. That’s one down fall to a WSU or any other mid major pick in march, its tough tell how good a team really is playing in the 150+ SOS year after year. WSU should’ve been a 5 or 4 seed and Stanford a 9 or 10. WSU could beat Stanford but we’ll never know what would’ve happened there. RPI is a joke IMO, it favors SOS too much. We were I believe a top 3 RPI team in 2014. Granted we didnt have Joel down the stretch but no way we were better than an elite 8 team IMO with him. I guess we are debating nothing at this point lol. Self isn’t playing them and I can see why, maybe some can’t but its not up to us.
