JOE DOOLEY MENTIONED AS TOM CREANS REPLACEMENT!
-
It wasn’t meant to be an analogy, more a comparison point of how a lot of coaches tend to find themselves back where it started if they are good enough and in the position to take it. Roy ended up back at UNC even though he had a great gig at KU. Going home worked for him. Steve has a good gig at UCLA but no ties to the West and in a good position with his son moving on. Both started getting asked the question around tournament time. We’ll see but I wouldn’t be surprised to see headlines after UCLA’s tourney run is over if he is in contact to get the IU job
-
I wonder if KU takes a look if Davis decides to transfer. I remember KU kept tabs on him but never offered originally. Juwan Morgan as well actually. Either one would be fine to sit a year and then be in their 4th year removed from HS ball to help fill what could be a thin KU front court. No idea if either wants to transfer, just random speculation on my part.
-
@bskeet said:
I know there is this perception floating around that only major conferences can win the title, but what is the logic behind that?
Very simple, go look at the list of national title winners and tell me the last time a mid major won.
-
@nuleafjhawk If that ends up being his mentality, Marshall will regret that decison down the raod when the what if’s start entering his mind.
-
While it’s obvious that P5 teams are much better positioned, Butler was a possession away and WSU had a real chance too.
-
Indiana can throw money at Marshall, but unless they are willing to make him one of the three highest paid basketball coaches in the country, I don’t know that the money (and accompanying pressure) of going to Indiana trumps what he already has at WSU.
Marshall’s salary was almost dead even with Crean’s for last season - less than $23,000 difference in total base pay, and Marshall probably hit enough of his bonuses to out earn Crean by quite a bit this year if they were in a similar ball park.
That means Marshall would need to get Bill Self money to move to Indiana (somewhere between $4.5 and $5m to make it worth the time). That’s a ton of money, but that’s the offer you have to make if you’re Indiana, otherwise there’s no attraction for Marshall to even consider it.
-
Another excellent coach (Marshall) that we seem to feel good about trashing.
Sure seemed to kick our a** in the NCAA tourney, I tend to recall. We had our excuses, ad nauseam.
Seems to be an excellent coach, has taken low to no ranked guys and has won, and certainly coaches with an edge.
-
Marsha=big
Big 
Big seed 
️
-
He’s a great coach, but people (maybe rightfully) gravitate to the fact that he is a shit human being.
-
That might be a bit harsh, but I have seen him in person.
-
-
@justanotherfan Mvc didn’t vote him the coach of the year, but it was close so wsu still paid him his bonus.
-
He’s just a dick. Have you heard him speak much? As I said it might have been a bit harsh. Maybe more correct to call him a rude person with small man syndrome. Some people are just assholes, and hey that’s his right.
-
I don’t think all coaches that beat KU are dicks or anything even. Prohm seems like a nice guy, Jamie Dixon seems alright etc…
Edit: I should add, Crean and Bruce are weeeeeeeeiiiiiiiird.
-
Marshall would be insane to go to an adidas program unless adidas and Nike have buried the hatchet.
-
@HighEliteMajor said:
Another excellent coach (Marshall) that we seem to feel good about trashing.
Sure seemed to kick our a** in the NCAA tourney, I tend to recall. We had our excuses, ad nauseam.
Seems to be an excellent coach, has taken low to no ranked guys and has won, and certainly coaches with an edge.
Really who DON’T we trash on this site except for Izzo? No one is as diplomatic as Self, I’ll give him credit for that, but still. Seems weird that we bash so many other coaches. Like “Stumpy.” What did he do to us? Seems like a great coach to me who is in the top 10-15 annually. I can’t think of anything he’s done that people couldn’t accuse Self of doing the same.
-
@BShark They did not win. If you want mid majors in the Final Four since the field expanded, you’ve got 4 appearances out of 128 spots. So what sounds easier, a power conference program where 124 out of the last 128 Final Four teams have come from or a mid major where 4 out of the last 128 have made tge Final Four. I know which path I would take.
-
XCLNT coaches deserve more loathing when their excellence depends primarily on shoe brand advantage.
Marshall at an adidas major will win no more than Marshall at a Nike mid major backed by Koch money.
I think Pitino, Alford, Crean and Self are better than most all Nike coaches simply by winning a conference title with 1/2 to 3/4s the player talent/depth combination.
-
I’m just saying it’s possible. I don’t disagree, I think Marshall would be crazy to turn down Indiana, or even NC State for that matter.
-
Marshall hasn’t exactly been landing great talent at WSU. He does a fantastic job with the lower ranked players he gets.
-
@jaybate-1.0 did you see his fit in Canada! He is insane!
-
@Crimsonorblue22 said:
did you see his fit in Canada! He is insane!
He totally lost it, over an exhibition game. That was horrifying.
-
@BShark Gregg Marshall is 6’2". I’m not here to defend the guy. You have thrown all of these vile insults at the man in the last 30 minutes. Just doesn’t make sense. Now we hear from the peanut gallery that he’s “insane.” Whatever.
-
Exactly, and how do you think he would be doing at Drake without the Koch thang?
-
It doesn’t have to do with his height, but you are right, it’s probably best if we both drop it. I think he’s a good coach and I’ll just leave it at that now.
-
@jaybate-1.0 Probably about the same as he did at Winthrop which was pretty damn good for a low major program.
-
@HighEliteMajor I think you might have seen the “peanut gallery’s” comment out of context. @jaybate-1.0 had written “Marshall would be insane to go to an adidas program…” and I think the comment was more along the lines of evidence from that exhibition game in support of jaybate’s conjecture.
In any event, I actually agree with you that the criticism of other coaches here can get over the top. Then again, I have thought the same about your posts in years past about our own coach.
Tell me, which is worse, “Marshall is insane” or “Bill Self is an idiot”? Or denigrating another poster here with the “peanut gallery” insult? You have gotten offended many times by references such as that directed at you.
I think there is a pot seeking to meet a kettle to discuss shades of black.
-
@mayjay I’m not biting …
And my post had nothing to do with @jaybate-1.0. That man wreaks of substance. One line sniping, with no substance, is peanut gallery stuff.
-
@HighEliteMajor Yours didn’t, hers did. As evidenced by his name in it. Duh.
-
@BeddieKU23 said:
It wasn’t meant to be an analogy, more a comparison point of how a lot of coaches tend to find themselves back where it started
Ok, change my wording from analogy to what you said you meant above and then my reasoning remains the same.
-
@ et al
Marshall would be silly to move to an adidas contracted school in this recruiting environment. Or a UA contracted school for that matter. Unless…some deal has been worked out behind the scenes in Deep Basketball regarding Shoe Wars.
If he were the coach many here believe him to be, his chances of sustained success would be much greater at any major with a Nike contract.
People are forgetting that Indiana has not been an elite program, frankly, since Bob Knight left, and even Knight’s last several years after the 1976 team were notable for him fighting corruption and so not being allowed the best recruits money could then buy. Knight won a title or two just on sheer brilliance and one or two excellent college players on a team (e.g., Alford’s teams).
Indiana has never been a consistently good program during the life time of the high schoolers currently playing basketball.
Recruiting Indiana basketball under an adidas contract is about like recruiting Arkansas or Purdue under an adidas contract. Its been ages since they were considered elite programs and with adidas you better be one hot number in the minds of high schoolers, or you are never going to sign the 3-stars and 4-starts Self finds to glue together with his 1 OAD a season to stay even in the top half of a power conference.
-
@mayjay said:
Tell me, which is worse, “Marshall is insane” or “Bill Self is an idiot”?
Okay, I can resolve this right now.
Marshall should be called “clinically unwise” for signing with an adidas contracted school.
No, I know @mayjay and that wouldn’t suffice.
Okay, Marshall would be just “unwise” to go with an adidas contracted program, because of the apparent recruiting constraints that imposes, when he could easily step up to a even a major and get the advantage of a Nike conveyor.
Marshall is a super coach. He is tough as nails, smart and ruthless. Not just any coach would have had the balls to have “provoked” Perry Ellis into viciously attacking the WSU guard’s elbow with Perry’s nose.
I have said for a long time that I want KU to beat the bejeezus out of Marshall (wherever he is) for what he and his Shockers did to KU, when we were down. He kicked the hell out of us and took names later.
He is a terrific coach IMHO.
But he not only beat us, he dragged us into an alley and kicked the hell out of us.
SO: WHAT GOES AROUND COMES AROUND AND HE’S GOING TO COME AROUND AGAIN AND WHEN HE DOES, I HOPE WE CAN BEAT HIM THE WAY ROY BEAT PITINO–150 TO 60 OR SO.
I DON’T WANT ANY OUR OF OUR GUYS TO ATTACK MARSHALL’S GUYS ELBOWS WITH OUR NOSES AGAIN.
I WANT OUR GUYS ELBOWS TO BE OFFERED UP FOR ATTACK BY THEIR GUYS NOSES.
ITS NOT PERSONAL.
ITS SPORTS.
ITS BILL BALL.
YOU HAVE TO PLAY IT ANYWAY THEY WANT.
So: yea, no one’s driving a wedge between @HighEliteMajor and me.
We debate vigorously enough without any assistance.
And we respect each other, especially when we differ.
Rock Chalk!
-
I have to agree with @HighEliteMajor. There seems to be a visceral instinct to associate personal dislike with coaching competence or lack thereof.
I don’t like Calipari, I think he knows a lot more about the behind the scenes shenanigans that got players to UMass, Memphis and now Kentucky than has been proven. I don’t like Coach K, I believe he is smug, arrogant and sanctimonious. I don’t care one way another about Sean Miller and I don’t believe he is that different than most coaches except that because of the exposure he gets, exchanges in the huddle, that are normally private, get broadcasted and vilified, even when he did not do or say anything that other coaches don’t. I don’t care one way or another about Marshall personally and the dislike seems to come from off-the-record coments he made about KU. He wants to play KU desperately because there is lots of upside for his program and mostly downside for KU…do I like what he said? Of course not but I do understand; he is working to give his program an edge, which is his job, and after all he is the WSU and not the KU coach…what else do you expect him to say?
Having stated that I personally do not care for the four coaches in question, there is no question that hey are all outstanding coaches and all of them probably in the top 10…I would take any of them to coach my program instead of Cuonzo, Crean or Smart or any of the media hyped coaches that are not nearly as good.
-
I seem to recall Indiana making a trip to the NCAA finals after Knight left…
-
I like plenty of coaches that are very good, including ones that don’t coach at KU.
-
Are we talking about the same Gregg Marshall who got ejected from a game for charging a pair of referees?
The same guy who’s been quoted saying things like:
“They’ve been big brother for so long and they just don’t want the little brother, who’s now grown up, to be able to compete with them and maybe win. They don’t want to give up that superiority in the household.”
or
“Look at my salary, that’s not mid-major.”
Maybe I’m wrong about the guy, but calling him kind of a dick with a little-man complex seems pretty accurate to me.
-
Again, he is the coach at Wichita State and it is his job to promote the program…I am curious, what exactly would you expect him to say instead?
-
@JayHawkFanToo There’s a lot classier ways to go about promoting your program than the way Marshall has chosen to promote WSU.
He very easily could’ve said in regards to trying to play KU that KU is the standard bearer and he’d like to see how his program stacks up against one of the best. The series ended because it got uncompetitive, but I think we can make it competitive again and it’s up to Bill self to decide if he wants to renew that series because we’re ready.
Same message about wanting to challenge, but doesn’t sound very dickish to me.
-
@JayHawkFanToo he did call us chicken hawks
-
WSU has been trying for a while now to get the series going but KU is not bitting since there is no upside. Now they are trying to shame KU into playing them and still will not work. It is not as big a deal as it has been made out to be by the media that loves controversy.
I have pointed out before that WSU’s trend is to have a few years of excellence and overachieving followed by many years of mediocrity. If Marshall leaves, WSU start the down cycle all over again.
-
@JayHawkFanToo You asked if there was another way Marshall could promote WSU other than how he has. I used the way he’s trying to get the KU series going again as the example because there’s plenty of comments by Marshall on the matter out there and he comes across like a disrespectful dick in those comments. He could very easily have taken the high road by using a similar tone and message to what I said of being complimentary of KU and wanting restart the series as a measuring stick for WSU instead of the path he chose. Does being complimentary of KU guarantee the series would’ve been restarted? Absolutely not, but I do guarantee Self and KU would be a lot more willing to consider it if Marshall had taken that approach.
-
I am sure that is not the worst KU has been called by other coaches. What do you think Weber, Drew, Smart, among others, say about KU at private booster function and when speaking off the record?
-
That series is not happening regardless of what anyone says or doesn’t say. Ok, say Marshall is a dick, like you said, does this make him a poor coach as many posters say? I think not.
-
@JayHawkFanToo this was on tv, I heard it
-
Wait, who has said he is a bad coach?
-
Of course I realize Indiana is a top program.
All I was saying is that Marshall has a lot to consider, including quality of life issues. He’s a family man so he can’t just run off only for his own ambition.
He is 10-times the coach of Shaka Smart… but they both have a similar style of playing the underdog card… and making a career off of it.
I don’t think Shaka’s underdog style is ever going to work at Texas. The very last thing Longhorns wants to hear is that they are underdogs!
So why will the underdog card work at Indiana? Since when does that school see themselves as zeroes in the basketball world?
-
Yes, it was a leaked video someone recorded at a booster event where comments were supposed to be off the record.
-
I will not name names but you can read some of the comments above.
-
Everyone in here knows I want to play WSU every year. Marshall has made them a force and they play a style that always gets us in trouble in March.
But the real reason I want to play is to start a real rivalry. KSU just isn’t it.
I look at the UK/UL rivalry with envy. I know we may not be able to match that, but who says we have to? I think it does a lot for our program to have a real rivalry and that is a naturally forming rivalry. These schools just don’t like each other, period!
Don’t want to open a can of worms… but maybe I did anyways!
-
@JayHawkFanToo said:
Again, he is the coach at Wichita State and it is his job to promote the program…I am curious, what exactly would you expect him to say instead?
This is the comment I’m responding to which has absolutely nothing to do with whether or not the man is a good coach. You asked if there was another way he could promote WSU, and the evidence being presented at that point was in regrads to Marshall trying to restart the KU series so that’s the example I went with.
All my point was is that the way Marshall is trying to restart that series by being a disrespectful dick to KU on the issue to try and bully Self into scheduling a series has no chance of working and KU not even interested in listening. All I did was provide an example of how Marshall could’ve taken a more respectful approach and that probably at least gets a meeting to explore the possibility of restarting the series.
Notice how nowhere in any of my posts did I say that approach would be guaranteed to restart the series, just that approach would probably make KU at least willing to listen.
How you spun me calling Marshall a dick into meaning he’s a bad coach is something I can’t figure out because my opinion of Marshall has nothing to do with the discussion.
