JOE DOOLEY MENTIONED AS TOM CREANS REPLACEMENT!
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@Texas-Hawk-10 IU maybe one of the few places I could see giving the money to get him and him wanting to go. He is currently the 9th highest paid coach in D1 and probably wouldn’t get any pressure from WSU until 3 or 4 crap years. I would stay if I was him, already making bank for a midmajor and if he hangs for awhile long half the campus will be named after him.
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@kjayhawks you would stay just based on money?
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@kjayhawks He’d also never have a real shot at a national title at WSU. Indiana is a place where you can win national titles at and if that’s not a coach’s eventual goal, then why are they coaching?
If Marshall is offered the IU job and turns it down, he’s admitting he’s not good enough to win a national title.
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I know some posters don’t like Marshall but there is no doubt he can coach. With the Indiana tradition and resources and playing in a major conference, he could have what he cannot at Wichita. Marshall and Archie Miller are the most sought after candidates at this time.
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I am no fan of Marshall or WSU, but help me understand how he wouldn’t have a “real shot” at at national title at WSU?
They made it to the final four sooner than Gonzaga. Butler made it to the championship game (twice) and missed it by that much…
I know there is this perception floating around that only major conferences can win the title, but what is the logic behind that?
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If IU had a Nike contract, I believe Marsha or more likely Archie Miller would already have been ordered by Nike, er, chosen to take the job, like good little Nike coaches.
But if IU had a Nike contract, Crean would have gotten more players and won enough to stay. The guy learned under Izzo, won at Marquette, resurrected IU, and knows his stuff,
IU has an adidas albatross around its neck, so Nike coaches will be wary of IU, unless IU is ready to sign with Nike, or unless they are late enough in their career they figure the IU adidas money is a tradeoff with kissing (and pissing) off the Nike mafia…
As an adidas school, IU logically needs a coach with adidas ties and one willing to live with the adidas constraint of limited players in exchange for adidas money and independence from the octopus with swooshes on his tentacles.
Tom Crean did not fail as a coach at IU. He is a decent coach. He apparently failed at IU-adidas, because adidas apparently quit being able to deliver the players needed in sufficient numbers and Crean is not as good of a coach as Self. Crean apparently could not overcome the “player diet” that Self has apparently kept finessing around for a string of conference titles, instead of the string of national titles he would likely have gotten at a Nike elite.
The advantage of an elite program in a power conference with a Nike contract appears to mean someone like midmajor Stumpy Miller can get a steady stream of top talent from day one at a major.
Archie Miller could do the same at UA, as Stumpy. So could Marsha. So could Crean. So could Joe Dooley. So could any solid coach. At UA-Nike, top rank talent and depth appear never in short supply. At IU-adidas, and KU-adidas, they increasingly seem to be.
Indiana has to adjust its sights down a little to take the adidas money, same as KU did.
IMHO, Crean’s recruiting volume has apparently trended downward congruent with Pitino and Self in recent seasons. Each signed a few top players, but not enough. And their declines in recruiting volumes appear greater proportionally than the declines at NIKE elites.
Bottom line? Self, Pitino and Crean don’t appear to have stables as full as Coach K, Cal, Roy and Stumpy, even after the gaudy bling of long stacking ended.
Anyone with a brain can see that KU with Self and a Nike contract and the level and quantity of talent Nike elites have gotten would likely have won several rings instead of one.
It appears adidas schools are trading off less talent volume for more money volume.
IU is frustrated. They want the adidas money, but they want to win more than adidas players allow. Wah wah!
In their frustration, Crean looks like Kek the frog and so makes a good scapegoat for a Chancellor and AD rolling in dough, but with grumbling fans. Get rid of froggie little Crean, who resurrected their corrupted mess of a program, and try someone else, while the higher ups keep the adidas bones; that seems the dynamic.
If Stumpy Miller, who faces his own appearance challenges, but not the recruiting volume deficiencies, were at IU, he too would probably be being sacrificed.
It’s all sickening.
Joe Dooly is probably a good fit. He is late enough in his career that the adidas money now could make kissing off Nike worth it. He’s got adidas ties through KU. He is a resourceful coach that understands the adidas limits.
And he has funny ears, so IU can fire him in four years and keep taking the adidas bones.
(Note: all speculation and opining.)
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Obviously Call #1 will be to Steve Alford but I heard he’s got a $7 million buyout so that’s steep but if Indiana wants to win that’s the price they will have to pay to recruit better talent and get better results on the court.
The appeal for Alford going to Indiana is great especially with his son a Sr and his banner freshman class headed off the draft. He’ll have a good team next season but you wonder what the allure of coaching the school he once was a star for would be for him personally. Indiana isn’t a step up from where he is currently and the pressure is the more or less then same
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He can stay in Fort Myers instead of moving to Bloomington IN, keep rolling out 26-8 teams in the Atlantic Sun, and get himself a golden ticket to the dance annually… But…
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@Crimsonorblue22 That’s my favorite post of yours of all time!!
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@Texas-Hawk-10 said:
If Marshall is offered the IU job and turns it down, he’s admitting he’s not good enough to win a national title
As @Crimsonorblue22 so eloquently stated above, the big greasy slimeball is going nowhere because, while he’s a scumbag, he’s smart enough to know that he can’t coach with the big boys. After a couple of 8-23 seasons (whatever) he would just slink out of town and go sell used cars somewhere.
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Agree Alford is an option. UCLA and IU are adidas constrained.
$7 million is NOTHING. If Ryancare goes through, every billionaire is going to have another $7M in his pocket, plus the other Trump gimmes will leave another $10-100M in corporate coffers. Plus Pence will make it rain from D.C.
It comes down to lifestyle. They’ve cleaned up the air and crime and graffiti on the west side of LA. It’s an easy hump to a private jet on the west side. Life is sweet in LA with money and a hedge. Arena size is irrelevant in the TV-Shoe era. Hawaii is a shorter hop than the carribean. The only downside is LA and the UC system will be in the cross hairs of the Trump-Pence Admin. Adelson will be looking for LOVE or SCORCHED EARTH in California. Pence will flood Indiana with Federal bones. Life will be good in Hoosier land, especially if Trump is sacrificed. Alford is a long time gone and his dad has reputedly been with him.
Up to Steve, but both schools are fickle.
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I believe UCLA is going to UA correct?
Just seems like the Roy/UNC talks back in the day. It seems inevitable Alford will be going to Indiana.
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Not sure if the analogy holds, because Alford has a good dad and no mentor pulling him neurotically back home. It would be easier to beat the adidas limitation in LA. More stray talent there. But if Steve and wife love the Midwest then yes he should take it.
IU will probably pay him a lot more and that could decide it. UCLA tends to under pay.
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@Texas-Hawk-10 There is an article in ESPN today ( 3-17 ) talking to Marshal, he states that some day he will probably leave Wichita State, saying right now he is happy with his 3.3 million but says he will always listen, so who knows he MAY very well end up at Indiana if they offer. - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
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@Crimsonorblue22 Agree, has been mentioned as you say he is PO’d about his seeding guess he really went off, and like they said as long as he is in the Missouri Valley that’s going to continue unless WSU moves to another conference or in the end run like they say either Wichita State out grows the valley - -OR Greg Marshal out grows WSU- -something is going to have to give in the end run. - -The Koch brothers as you know got pretty big check books , I know they were saying you know he may be thinking if I’m here in this conference am I going to have to win the conference every dam year to get a bid - -get screwed on my seeding -who knows. - - ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
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@Crimsonorblue22 I heard an interview off radio 810 WHB about a week ago a little longer possibly, but there is a segment where they talk to roving reporters around the Nation, and they came to that area around the N Carolina area and they were talking about the NC State job and the reporter said that Marshal REALLY wanted the NC State job before the Mike Gottfried hire, they ask if they thought they would come after Marshal this time, he said he thought that he would be their 1st call. - The question is, would he want it this time round?, Some was saying WHY would he want to go out there and have to but heads against N Carolina and Duke. – we shall see. - - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
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It wasn’t meant to be an analogy, more a comparison point of how a lot of coaches tend to find themselves back where it started if they are good enough and in the position to take it. Roy ended up back at UNC even though he had a great gig at KU. Going home worked for him. Steve has a good gig at UCLA but no ties to the West and in a good position with his son moving on. Both started getting asked the question around tournament time. We’ll see but I wouldn’t be surprised to see headlines after UCLA’s tourney run is over if he is in contact to get the IU job
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I wonder if KU takes a look if Davis decides to transfer. I remember KU kept tabs on him but never offered originally. Juwan Morgan as well actually. Either one would be fine to sit a year and then be in their 4th year removed from HS ball to help fill what could be a thin KU front court. No idea if either wants to transfer, just random speculation on my part.
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@bskeet said:
I know there is this perception floating around that only major conferences can win the title, but what is the logic behind that?
Very simple, go look at the list of national title winners and tell me the last time a mid major won.
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@nuleafjhawk If that ends up being his mentality, Marshall will regret that decison down the raod when the what if’s start entering his mind.
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While it’s obvious that P5 teams are much better positioned, Butler was a possession away and WSU had a real chance too.
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Indiana can throw money at Marshall, but unless they are willing to make him one of the three highest paid basketball coaches in the country, I don’t know that the money (and accompanying pressure) of going to Indiana trumps what he already has at WSU.
Marshall’s salary was almost dead even with Crean’s for last season - less than $23,000 difference in total base pay, and Marshall probably hit enough of his bonuses to out earn Crean by quite a bit this year if they were in a similar ball park.
That means Marshall would need to get Bill Self money to move to Indiana (somewhere between $4.5 and $5m to make it worth the time). That’s a ton of money, but that’s the offer you have to make if you’re Indiana, otherwise there’s no attraction for Marshall to even consider it.
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Another excellent coach (Marshall) that we seem to feel good about trashing.
Sure seemed to kick our a** in the NCAA tourney, I tend to recall. We had our excuses, ad nauseam.
Seems to be an excellent coach, has taken low to no ranked guys and has won, and certainly coaches with an edge.
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Marsha=big
Big 
Big seed 
️
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He’s a great coach, but people (maybe rightfully) gravitate to the fact that he is a shit human being.
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That might be a bit harsh, but I have seen him in person.
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@justanotherfan Mvc didn’t vote him the coach of the year, but it was close so wsu still paid him his bonus.
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He’s just a dick. Have you heard him speak much? As I said it might have been a bit harsh. Maybe more correct to call him a rude person with small man syndrome. Some people are just assholes, and hey that’s his right.
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I don’t think all coaches that beat KU are dicks or anything even. Prohm seems like a nice guy, Jamie Dixon seems alright etc…
Edit: I should add, Crean and Bruce are weeeeeeeeiiiiiiiird.
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Marshall would be insane to go to an adidas program unless adidas and Nike have buried the hatchet.
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@HighEliteMajor said:
Another excellent coach (Marshall) that we seem to feel good about trashing.
Sure seemed to kick our a** in the NCAA tourney, I tend to recall. We had our excuses, ad nauseam.
Seems to be an excellent coach, has taken low to no ranked guys and has won, and certainly coaches with an edge.
Really who DON’T we trash on this site except for Izzo? No one is as diplomatic as Self, I’ll give him credit for that, but still. Seems weird that we bash so many other coaches. Like “Stumpy.” What did he do to us? Seems like a great coach to me who is in the top 10-15 annually. I can’t think of anything he’s done that people couldn’t accuse Self of doing the same.
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@BShark They did not win. If you want mid majors in the Final Four since the field expanded, you’ve got 4 appearances out of 128 spots. So what sounds easier, a power conference program where 124 out of the last 128 Final Four teams have come from or a mid major where 4 out of the last 128 have made tge Final Four. I know which path I would take.
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XCLNT coaches deserve more loathing when their excellence depends primarily on shoe brand advantage.
Marshall at an adidas major will win no more than Marshall at a Nike mid major backed by Koch money.
I think Pitino, Alford, Crean and Self are better than most all Nike coaches simply by winning a conference title with 1/2 to 3/4s the player talent/depth combination.
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I’m just saying it’s possible. I don’t disagree, I think Marshall would be crazy to turn down Indiana, or even NC State for that matter.
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Marshall hasn’t exactly been landing great talent at WSU. He does a fantastic job with the lower ranked players he gets.
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@jaybate-1.0 did you see his fit in Canada! He is insane!
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@Crimsonorblue22 said:
did you see his fit in Canada! He is insane!
He totally lost it, over an exhibition game. That was horrifying.
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@BShark Gregg Marshall is 6’2". I’m not here to defend the guy. You have thrown all of these vile insults at the man in the last 30 minutes. Just doesn’t make sense. Now we hear from the peanut gallery that he’s “insane.” Whatever.
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Exactly, and how do you think he would be doing at Drake without the Koch thang?
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It doesn’t have to do with his height, but you are right, it’s probably best if we both drop it. I think he’s a good coach and I’ll just leave it at that now.
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@jaybate-1.0 Probably about the same as he did at Winthrop which was pretty damn good for a low major program.
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@HighEliteMajor I think you might have seen the “peanut gallery’s” comment out of context. @jaybate-1.0 had written “Marshall would be insane to go to an adidas program…” and I think the comment was more along the lines of evidence from that exhibition game in support of jaybate’s conjecture.
In any event, I actually agree with you that the criticism of other coaches here can get over the top. Then again, I have thought the same about your posts in years past about our own coach.
Tell me, which is worse, “Marshall is insane” or “Bill Self is an idiot”? Or denigrating another poster here with the “peanut gallery” insult? You have gotten offended many times by references such as that directed at you.
I think there is a pot seeking to meet a kettle to discuss shades of black.
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@mayjay I’m not biting …
And my post had nothing to do with @jaybate-1.0. That man wreaks of substance. One line sniping, with no substance, is peanut gallery stuff.
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@HighEliteMajor Yours didn’t, hers did. As evidenced by his name in it. Duh.
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@BeddieKU23 said:
It wasn’t meant to be an analogy, more a comparison point of how a lot of coaches tend to find themselves back where it started
Ok, change my wording from analogy to what you said you meant above and then my reasoning remains the same.
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@ et al
Marshall would be silly to move to an adidas contracted school in this recruiting environment. Or a UA contracted school for that matter. Unless…some deal has been worked out behind the scenes in Deep Basketball regarding Shoe Wars.
If he were the coach many here believe him to be, his chances of sustained success would be much greater at any major with a Nike contract.
People are forgetting that Indiana has not been an elite program, frankly, since Bob Knight left, and even Knight’s last several years after the 1976 team were notable for him fighting corruption and so not being allowed the best recruits money could then buy. Knight won a title or two just on sheer brilliance and one or two excellent college players on a team (e.g., Alford’s teams).
Indiana has never been a consistently good program during the life time of the high schoolers currently playing basketball.
Recruiting Indiana basketball under an adidas contract is about like recruiting Arkansas or Purdue under an adidas contract. Its been ages since they were considered elite programs and with adidas you better be one hot number in the minds of high schoolers, or you are never going to sign the 3-stars and 4-starts Self finds to glue together with his 1 OAD a season to stay even in the top half of a power conference.
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@mayjay said:
Tell me, which is worse, “Marshall is insane” or “Bill Self is an idiot”?
Okay, I can resolve this right now.
Marshall should be called “clinically unwise” for signing with an adidas contracted school.
No, I know @mayjay and that wouldn’t suffice.
Okay, Marshall would be just “unwise” to go with an adidas contracted program, because of the apparent recruiting constraints that imposes, when he could easily step up to a even a major and get the advantage of a Nike conveyor.
Marshall is a super coach. He is tough as nails, smart and ruthless. Not just any coach would have had the balls to have “provoked” Perry Ellis into viciously attacking the WSU guard’s elbow with Perry’s nose.
I have said for a long time that I want KU to beat the bejeezus out of Marshall (wherever he is) for what he and his Shockers did to KU, when we were down. He kicked the hell out of us and took names later.
He is a terrific coach IMHO.
But he not only beat us, he dragged us into an alley and kicked the hell out of us.
SO: WHAT GOES AROUND COMES AROUND AND HE’S GOING TO COME AROUND AGAIN AND WHEN HE DOES, I HOPE WE CAN BEAT HIM THE WAY ROY BEAT PITINO–150 TO 60 OR SO.
I DON’T WANT ANY OUR OF OUR GUYS TO ATTACK MARSHALL’S GUYS ELBOWS WITH OUR NOSES AGAIN.
I WANT OUR GUYS ELBOWS TO BE OFFERED UP FOR ATTACK BY THEIR GUYS NOSES.
ITS NOT PERSONAL.
ITS SPORTS.
ITS BILL BALL.
YOU HAVE TO PLAY IT ANYWAY THEY WANT.
So: yea, no one’s driving a wedge between @HighEliteMajor and me.
We debate vigorously enough without any assistance.
And we respect each other, especially when we differ.
Rock Chalk!
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I have to agree with @HighEliteMajor. There seems to be a visceral instinct to associate personal dislike with coaching competence or lack thereof.
I don’t like Calipari, I think he knows a lot more about the behind the scenes shenanigans that got players to UMass, Memphis and now Kentucky than has been proven. I don’t like Coach K, I believe he is smug, arrogant and sanctimonious. I don’t care one way another about Sean Miller and I don’t believe he is that different than most coaches except that because of the exposure he gets, exchanges in the huddle, that are normally private, get broadcasted and vilified, even when he did not do or say anything that other coaches don’t. I don’t care one way or another about Marshall personally and the dislike seems to come from off-the-record coments he made about KU. He wants to play KU desperately because there is lots of upside for his program and mostly downside for KU…do I like what he said? Of course not but I do understand; he is working to give his program an edge, which is his job, and after all he is the WSU and not the KU coach…what else do you expect him to say?
Having stated that I personally do not care for the four coaches in question, there is no question that hey are all outstanding coaches and all of them probably in the top 10…I would take any of them to coach my program instead of Cuonzo, Crean or Smart or any of the media hyped coaches that are not nearly as good.
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I seem to recall Indiana making a trip to the NCAA finals after Knight left…
