Pistols Out of Ammo Game Thread
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@truehawk93 Yep, and frankly I could care less. KState started a fight. Next
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His lil trip around town had us miss mosses 3. Less talk
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@tundrahok Our point guard lost the game dribbling last month.
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You know looking back…has anyone wondered why in the hell was Silvio that high and in the corner, dribbling the damn ball at 6-9 like Dotson?
Done…moving on
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@approxinfinity I know. I am sorry. Still sticks in my craw.
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@approxinfinity Always after me lucky charms… “But who does #2 work for!!?”
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approxinfinity said:
Maybe we can start shooting on our own basket as time expires to shake things up a bit.
We wouldn’t have to worry about any going in if end if game tonite is any indication.
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This post is deleted!
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mayjay said:
approxinfinity said:
Maybe we can start shooting on our own basket as time expires to shake things up a bit.
We wouldn’t have to worry about any going in if end if game tonite is any indication.
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Rock Chuck, KU.
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Okie St a lot of meaningless buckets in the end and a couple of walk on’s in.
Over all pretty dam good defensive performance. - - Oklahoma St 28 % overall from the field – 11 % from 3 point = =pretty impressive numbers.
Christian leading Scorer 16 points - -leading rebounder 9. - -Marcus 7 points , 9 assists and 8 rebounds pretty solid - Doke only 6 points but 7 rebounds and 5 blocks
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@jayballer73 yeah our d was good. Okie St can’t shoot, but our D was really good second half.
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Osu thx for showing Weber some class at the end of the game!
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Best thing about this win tonight was…
A: Braun breakout
B: A decisive win in Stillwater, finally.
C: Undeniable evidence supporting 4 guard.
D : Balanced team win.
E: _________________
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@bskeet E: All of the above!!
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Crazy to think of how much of massacre this game could’ve been had we not fell a sleep in the first half for the final 8 minutes going scoreless in almost 6 of those and just hanging out the last 4 minutes. May have an 80 to 45 type deal.
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@FarmerJayhawk I honestly think Self has known that he would be at a 4 guard lineup by the end of the year after about 3 games. But he was seeing whom out of Braun, Moss and Tristan was going to emerge and not giving them the spot til it was earned, we have played more with 4 guards tho we usually started 3.
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@approxinfinity my disgust with Fran went down considerably after he said that Love for KSU showed more effort in that brawl than his previous 3 years in Methattan.
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@bskeet can win w/dot sitting on the bench for mins
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Exciting to see last night, 17 point first half lead dismantled. Dotson & Doke on the bench & Braun makes a critical bucket to end the half. KU comes out with a 20-3 run and says GOODNIGHT. Dotson was on the bench for most of this run which is encouraging to see that Garrett and the gang could run the game out of contention without their leading scorer on the floor. Very impressed to see them win in Stillwater. 4-0 in road games in conference play so far. Looking forward to Tech coming to town this weekend.
Look at these impressive stat lines
Doke- 6 points, 7 boards, 5 blocks
Garrett- 7 points, 9 assists, 8 boards
Braun- 16 points, 9 boards, 2 steals
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PER’s from last nights big win. Braun continues to be the 3rd best player on the team in conference play. Hope he keeps his starting spot, UPS has earned it.
OVERALL
Conference PER’s
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My gosh Ochai.
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approxinfinity said:
My gosh Ochai.
He has been abysmal. Really been a letdown this year from what his expectations were. I doubt it will happen but hopefully he can find a spark coming down the stretch.
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When we have outside shooting going we look really good. Our defense is so good that we can also withstand some bad offensive stretches. They are getting better.
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Braun, any questions? Self starting Braun over Moss is a great sign. He’s a freshman, surely some big ups and downs to come. But getting shooting into the mix, playing the 4/1, is our only chance to be NC contenders.
Losing Dave for a couple of games may be a blessing in disguise.
If Self goes back to starting Dave and moves Braun to the bench … well, I’m not going to assume that for the moment.
It’s not just who finishes. The first 8 minutes can be as important as any time in the game. As is anytime spent overlapping Dave’s and Doke’s PT thereafter.
The question now becomes whether moving Agbaji to the bench to start the game is the right move. Might be a good to try. A change … any change … can create a different dynamic. Without a fully functioning Agbaji, we are likely in real trouble (related to any chance at tourney progress). That would mean Moss starting instead. Not the long term trade out we want, but short term, to create some spark, it’s worth a shot.
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Self said after the game he would continue to start 4 guards even with Dave back. Whether Braun keeps it, who knows but he’d be crazy to take him out of the lineup after yesterday
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Don’t think we should discount the defensive dirty work Ochai has done this year. His offense definitely needs to come around but I don’t think that’s really his focus. I think next year his offense starts to flow a little better like Marcus has done this year. I think this team’s strength is their defense and we should play to that strength.
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Also, Enaruna isn’t there yet but that kid has some defensive potential. He is just so long! I foresee many blocks, deflections and steals in his future.
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@benshawks08 didn’t he have 5 boards?
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@Crimsonorblue22 He did but I feel like all the rebounding numbers from last night are a little inflated. Sooo many bricks from both teams!
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It’s gotta be Braun instead of Moss in the 4-1. Leave Ochai. Defense gets better / a hot 3pt shooter.
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Just curious as to y’all’s thoughts, but Big Dave needs playing time to prepare for next year. If he doesn’t start, he will only get time as a sub for Doke, when HCBS goes with 2 bigs or when KU is in a blowout.
Doke needs to play for his value to the team and his Pro development.
IMHO, Self is starting 2 bigs to get Dave court time. KU needs him next year and starting him is his development time.
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Excellent point about Agbaji’s defense. He’s a permanent starter on this team because of what he brings at minimum defensively.
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Yeah he’s got a ways to go before figuring it out. A few important things to note: he flashed at the beginning of the season and while he’s struggled finding a role since the season has gone on he’s gotten minutes that will help him going forward. His off-season should consist of shooting and more shooting
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@BeddieKU23 I think he honestly has a good shot and I’d bet money he cans his fair share in practice. I think his work is more on the mental side of the game. For him his issues seem to be more about decision making, being in the right spot at the right time, and getting comfortable on the floor. Braun has progressed much more quickly in these areas and that’s why he’s doing what he is in Big 12 play. I believe Enaruna will be every bit the player Braun is long run and certainly has potential to be special.
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Just spit ballin’ here, but our team defense is excellent. Moss seems pretty good, not great.
We can’t win a NC without Agbaji producing offensively, I’d suggest. Our chances are at least way diminished if he’s in this ballpark of offensive production. His defense won’t go away.
Therefore, we need to explore how to get his offense going. Many times going to the bench, losing a starting job, can inspire. Also, some players do play better off the bench.
There is really no risk in trying it. Seeing if we can grab a spark offensively from him.
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HighEliteMajor said:
Just spit ballin’ here, but our team defense is excellent. Moss seems pretty good, not great.
We can’t win a NC without Agbaji producing offensively, I’d suggest. Our chances are at least way diminished if he’s in this ballpark of offensive production. His defense won’t go away.
Therefore, we need to explore how to get his offense going. Many times going to the bench, losing a starting job, can inspire. Also, some players do play better off the bench.
There is really no risk in trying it. Seeing if we can grab a spark offensively from him.
I would respectfully disagree - indeed, my spit ballin’ is that if we have to rely on Ochai to score more, then THAT diminishes our chance of a NC. He is not anything close to an efficient offensive player. He’s not a good ball handler (might even say below average for a wing), he isn’t effective driving, and he is at best streaky from 3-pt range and that’s being generous. IF Braun can be a consistent 8-10 ppg scorer, then we really don’t need any more than that from Ochai. Rather than having him take bad shots (which he does too often), I’d rather see him get those points off a few set plays, i.e., alley-oops and back-door cuts, kick-outs to the arc where he has time to really square up, and put-backs on offensive rebounds.
He IS a very good athlete, which he uses to good effect on the defensive end. However, he is not a particularly good rebounder - especially for someone of his size and athleticism. If we are going to go principally 4-1, then we really need Ochai (or someone) to step up on the boards - that where we have a more urgent need. Unfortunately, in the last two games in which we only had one big - and not even that for long stretches - he didn’t step up (in contrast to Garrett and in the last game, Braun).
With our defense, we don’t need to score 80 ppg to win - 70 will get it done most nights. If we get 32 from Doke and Dot, and 8-10 each from Garrett, Braun, Ochai, and Moss, then we’re at 68-72 and anything from Dave and Enaruna is gravy.
The bottom line is that while Ochai has demonstrated he is capable of a 20 pt game, he simply isn’t skilled enough to score in double figures on a consistent basis, at least not efficiently, and I would rather not have to rely on him having to get there…
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@DCHawker Well you obviously make good points. Maybe I’m still in preseason Agbaji mode. Braun has been the shooter I thought Agbaji would be so that’s probably the right way to look at it (as you reference). If we have three threats from the arc (Dotson, Braun, and Moss) that is probably enough. I do have higher expectations for Agbaji though by quite a long way.
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@DCHawker agree 100% let’s see how far Braun can take us as the 3 pt guy and dial back Agbaji on o to the parts that come naturally
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We need Ochai to play the role of Releford. Play lockdown perimeter D, make open 3’s. Don’t touch the ball. With the emergence of Garrett and to some degree Braun as legit ballhandlers we don’t need Ochai to so much of it since Self says we’re going 4 guards. Ochai will be the de facto 4
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FarmerJayhawk said:
We need Ochai to play the role of Releford. Play lockdown perimeter D, make open 3’s. Don’t touch the ball. With the emergence of Garrett and to some degree Braun as legit ballhandlers we don’t need Ochai to so much of it since Self says we’re going 4 guards. Ochai will be the de facto 4
I feel Marcus has become a solid back up PG - had like 9 assists last night - -not to sure think zero turnovers. I still have all the confidence in the world for Ochai I think he is going to be just fine
Kind of Scary to think what we can be like next year going forward with the 4 guard line up with the addition of Thompson & Dave at the 5 with the other Big’s to play back up. - -Kind of curious how Jalen fits I next year with the 4 guard?
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What if the key is actually the development of Braun. I think Agbaji is so much like Selden his Soph year in a lot of ways, the consistency issues on offense compare. I think our defense would suffer trying him off the bench
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Just to step back a moment…How many of us who attended KU in the 70’s would have ever imagined all the anguish and lamentation about a #3 ranked team?
Those of you who started in the 80’s and since have no idea the difference that extra 10 years of perspective can make! That is why I never get too disturbed by disappointments or too caught up in expectations. The joy of KU excelling these past 30 years will live as long as I do.
Okay, retrospective is done. Feel free to stress some more.
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mayjay said:
Just to step back a moment…How many of us who attended KU in the 70’s would have ever imagined all the anguish and lamentation about a #3 ranked team?
Those of you who started in the 80’s and since have no idea the difference that extra 10 years of perspective can make! That is why I never get too disturbed by disappointments or too caught up in expectations. The joy of KU excelling these past 30 years will live as long as I do.
Okay, retrospective is done. Feel free to stress some more.
Oh I remember some of the Teddy years. - -Good recruiter for that time frame - -just couldn’t Coach - - -I remember the Robisch , the Koeings years , the Kivisto years , the Nash years , The Pierre Russell years - -pretty decent players - - I remember years where you could buy a ticket and sooner then later during the game you could buy a ticket and then sit just about where you wanted
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@mayjay That’s a difference. Some are content with certain success. Some aren’t. Some define success as just not being bad or average or just better than good, and thus are content with not achieving greatness. We’ve only been the “champion” once in the last three full decades. We’ve only achieved “greatness” once in 30+ seasons. That’s ridiculous underachievement given our talent and two incredible hall of fame coaches and he level of our program. If our other successes provide contentment in the face of the alternatives for some, fine. But not for me.
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HighEliteMajor said:
@mayjay That’s a difference. Some are content with certain success. Some aren’t. Some define success as just not being bad or average or just better than good, and thus are content with not achieving greatness. We’ve only been the “champion” once in the last three full decades. We’ve only achieved “greatness” once in 30+ seasons. That’s ridiculous underachievement given our talent and two incredible hall of fame coaches and he level of our program. If our other successes provide contentment in the face of the alternatives for some, fine. But not for me.
I REALLY think you need to go into Coaching HighElite that way all our problems would be solved - -we would NEVER have to worry about National Championships EVER again - Championship every year Anything less will not be acceptable but not to wory , we have you at the helm Lot of Schools - - Lot’s of ridiculous for everyone – lots of under achievors lots of Schools wish as much if not more then ours, BUT we think we all have had this discussion before haven’t we? - -Have yourself a great day - -GEEZ
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@jayballer73 It’s a mindset. If you don’t live your life that way, that’s fine. To each their own. There are some though that live their lives differently. Your choice is to mock that alternative mindset. But you respond in predictable fashion. We fashion ourselves in the same breath as UK, Duke, and UNC. Those are our peers. Heck, I’ve seen folks argue here that we’re a better program than those others.
In the last three decades - UK 3 NCs; UNC 4 NCs; Duke 5 NCs. Kansas just one.
One can be happy and thankful but not satisfied.
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@HighEliteMajor It does hurt that 3 of those UNC NCs are with our old coach. Three! The only coach to win 3 since Self has been at KU. Was it the UNC brand that pushed Roy over the top or did he just leave Kansas as he was hitting his prime coaching years?
I personally appreciate consistency so I wouldn’t trade The Streak for one national championship and a trip to the NIT. But two NCs? I’d make that deal.
