Liberace Game Thread
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Who’s the attacker? Hope cooler heads prevail and these kids get another chance.
Side note (we -wife and I) are in the background behind Love’s dome.
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@dylans That is James Love. Were you able to see more details than on the film clip?
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For all of the crap that KU and Self have put up with with SDS not too mention the money spent I do not think there is any chance he is dismissed from the team. What he did was dumb but it is not the end of the world.
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Let’s plan ahead here. What would be a new thread title for round 2 next month? See, I think of the important stuff.
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This is the last straw for me. The scandals, the corruption, late night, a stubborn, inflexible coach, players who just aren’t all that interested in KU putting on the uniform and on and on. Fatigue and apathy has finally set in for me as I cannot identify with this brand of athletics.
There is no justification or contextual mitigation for any of what occurred last night. This team is in total disarray and lacks any kind of self-control. That starts at the top. Perhaps a major change is finally in order because I simply cannot support or condone such unscrupulous behavior. All this time I really wanted to believe we were the good guys. But we’re really no better than anyone else. In fact, yesterday may prove once and for all we are the complete antithesis of “good”.
If ANY team in the country should have avoided the shenanigans from last night it was KU. But they simply cannot get out of their own way. We are now all over the sports media and the regular media for all the wrong reasons yet again. It’s disgusting.
Something needs to change.
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Hmm, while it is embarrassing, and really poor timing, the fact that a long-time, in-state rival pulled a bonehead move by stealing the ball when they are down by 20 with a few seconds left on the clock, followed by a really frustrated college kid legally blocking the shot then gloating for a second, followed by said instate rivals starting a shoving match, at our house, which caused more kids to get involved, to me, hardly constitutes “the complete antithesis of good”.
Sports and emotions are completely intertwined. Do you feel happy when we win? Sad when we lose? How about really really happy when we win an NC? How about really really sad when we lose to team at the Dance we know we can beat 9 times out of 10?
Now imagine you’re a testosterone filled college kid who’s had an incredibly tough time the past few years on the court last night in the above scenario.
Do we expect better of him? Of course we do. Was it a total boneheaded move not to just flex and walk away after the block? Of course it was. Was the stool thing scary and completely out of line and calls for severe punishment? Of course it does.
Does the emotional outburst of a kid athlete, and other kids rushing to his defense, mean the whole program is in the sh!tter? In my opinion, of course it doesn’t.
Is our squeaky clean reputation a thing of past? Yea, for awhile it sure looks like it. Had we better learn from this? Hell yes we better.
Am is still proud to be a Jayhawk? Well my pride is a little bruised right now, but, yea, hell yes I am.
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Silvio suspended indefinitely, per Self. Pending Big 12 review.
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FarmerJayhawk said:
Silvio suspended indefinitely, per Self. Pending Big 12 review.
Yeah the indefinitely tag seemed like the easiest way to make a swift move so they can continue to review everything
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Why do fans care what other fans and or media says about there team? I will never understand that.
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@Woodrow BiRGing.
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Something just occurred to me: did anyone notice how many long distance shot attempts SDS missed in the brawl? Obviously he’s not the answer to the search for a 4 with range.
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PER dropped him 2 points for the chair drop & missed attempts
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Ok help me out, please. I heard a couple people and saw a sign that said something about Bruce eating soup. Eat your soup Bruce. Bruce eats soup with a fork.
What’s that about??? @BShark @FarmerJayhawk @kjayhawks @anyone?!?
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@mayjay He’s form is correctable. He just needs to stop leaning back on his release.
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Silvio is quite the lightning rod. All the talk in the press seems to be about him rather than the K-State players. This is not fair.
It is definitely his fault for taunting after the block. The technical foul was fair. But the physical altercation was instigated and escalated by K-State players-- multiple individuals.
In the video, what I see is KState players running to confront Silvio. One of them pushes him. I see Silvio brush that push away and another player pushes him and he begins to push away and back at the same time (look closely-- his hands are not clenched; they are open to deflect the aggressors.)
There are at least two pushing him, maybe three. Meanwhile, everyone around Silvio is telling him to stop because they are all KU fans. It looks to me like he’s trying to not over-react for a couple of seconds while the K-State players have no one holding them back. Then the third guy lunges and pushes Silvio down and he comes up swinging.
I think it’s important to look at Silvio’s body language in those early moments. He is not trying to fight at first. He gets provoked and then all hell breaks loose. The stool incident I see as an instinctive act… and one that he fortunately is able to overcome with help of those around him.
Silvio is justifiably being called out. But he should not be singled out. The players from K-State who were responsible for the escalation and the first physical acts should be equally called out.
As is often the case when there is great disparity between two forces, the smaller power can’t win with the traditional rules, so they resort to guerrilla tactics to get the bigger power to do something uncharacteristic. Silvio bit on the bait.
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bskeet said:
Silvio is justifiably being called out. But he should not be singled out.
He picked up a stool. That is why he is singled out.
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Agree: the stool has bad optics.
However, I think what is easily overlooked – and not evident in a still photo – is that he de-escalated quickly.
I think it would be worthwhile to at least acknowledge that in the reporting. It’s not an effort to condone his actions… just to be a bit more fair and balanced.
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People see what they wanna see!
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@bskeet After the stool he still ran over with David to keep going at Love who had fallen. It’s all bad.
I understand in fights you are not thinking but unfortunately for SDS he will be made an example out of.
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BigBad said:
@bskeet After the stool he still ran over with David to keep going at Love who had fallen. It’s all bad.
I understand in fights you are not thinking but unfortunately for SDS he will be made an example out of.
I think that’s fine as long as they make an example out of Love as well. What Love did was every bit as inexcusable as what Silvio did.
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bskeet said:
BigBad said:
@bskeet After the stool he still ran over with David to keep going at Love who had fallen. It’s all bad.
I understand in fights you are not thinking but unfortunately for SDS he will be made an example out of.
I think that’s fine as long as they make an example out of Love as well. What Love did was every bit as inexcusable as what Silvio did.
Worse in my opinion. He wasn’t a part of the game. If that’s allowed we should have a new football player walk-on destroy a guy every game.
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@dylans Exactly. If Love gets his hand slapped, prepare to see a new benchwarmer: The Enforcer. The designated guy who can come in with impunity and kick ass.
But to the earlier point: where is Love in the coverage of the event?
And he wasn’t the instigator… he just escalated it. The instigator and the escalator are not the focus of the pundits.
Holding KU to a higher standard?
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Andy Katz just reported that the Big 12 will announce by the end of the day about brawl. - make some kind of announcement
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Our local sports program said they had a couple at the game last night and was giving there views - lot of more slap fighting then real punches - -Saying really the only true punch came after Sloan pushed Silvio and then he came up swinging.
They are thinking three from each team probably be suspended - - Silvio - - -David - - & Marcus from KU - - And then Gordan- - - -Love – and Sloan from K-state. they said Sloan actually had as much to do with this whole thing as Silvio.
They was also saying for people that are over reacting saying Silvio will suspended for the year or dismissed - -they said get a grip and then brought up when Marcus Smart went into the stands and hit a fan - - he got 3 games - -just a mess
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dylans said:
Ok help me out, please. I heard a couple people and saw a sign that said something about Bruce eating soup. Eat your soup Bruce. Bruce eats soup with a fork.
What’s that about??? @BShark @FarmerJayhawk @kjayhawks @anyone?!?
I think it’s just a dig at how nerdy and awkward he is.
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@dylans “If that’s allowed we should have a new football player walk-on destroy a guy every game.”
Been tried, but by Coach Woody Hayes instead of by a player.
https://www.espn.com/college-football/bowls13/story/_/id/10215217/the-punch-ended-woody-hayes-career
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Announcement should be coming around 5pm this evening
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I appreciate your reply.
Look, I understand the bush-league steal at the end of the game given the circumstance. I also understand the vicious block and the stare down was months of frustration, suspension and current lack of playing time flowing out of Silvio. If it had ended there I could explain it away as competitiveness. This went way beyond that.
You say emotion and sports are intertwined. Agreed. However, one has to be able to harness said emotion and channel it in the correct way, something we did not do. Exuberance in victory and sadness in defeat are very different from physically attacking an opponent. And I don’t care who instigated or escalated the situation. As difficult as it is we simply HAVE to have more awareness and control to walk away - especially so due to looming NCAA sanctions.
Lastly, please don’t conflate criticism with not being a Jayhawk. I have followed this program since I was a boy and I want to see it thrive. But it’s getting harder and harder to ignore the string of black marks leveled against this program in recent years. And it’s getting harder and harder to treat them as anomalous or isolated incidents or just part of doing business in the current climate. As much as it pains me to say it, we are trending downward as a program and the brawl will do nothing to alleviate that. The “stool seen round the world” is going to hurt, I promise you. Ironically, getting hit with the stool might have been less painful.
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kjayhawks said:
Prepare for the shirts.
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we will know the outcome at 5 supposedly . The reason is Goolsby is in California dealing with a problem there.
Came across WIBW - so i guess they will say what suspensions are give out - – who is getting suspensions and such.
Dakich and Greenburg on their podcast of ESPN, - -started talking about this will not be a Bill Self decision ,this will not be a Bruce Weber decision – this is an administration decision. - then they talked about if I was a Chancellor or AD- if I kept seeing my institution at the bottom of a document - -things needed to change , pretty much talking about there needed to be a change - -they were saying Coach Self needed to be out. - Will Coach Self at the Helm there have been to many episodes where KU/University being in a negative light - - lack of control. - -They pretty much coming out saying Bill Self needs to be gone
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@tis4tim And I appreciate yours too. Totally agree, the players and coaches have to have more awareness, especially these days. Also appreciate it being hard to ignore the black marks the program’s been getting lately. We’ve always set such a good example and it’s been easy to feel good about the integrity of our program… a lot harder to wear the holier than thou hat these days.
And anybody contributing regularly on these boards as you have over the years is undoubtedly a Jayhawk. Last night was painful and embarrassing. It’s just with all the heaping on of negativity from all sides, and the histrionics from Vitale and the like, I just felt the need to say I think a fight breaking out in sports, while headline grabbing is not the end of the world. We’ll learn from this crap and our program will move forward and someday get back to being an example to others. In the meantime, bring on Tennessee and let’s get back to business.
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StLJhawk said:
We’ll learn from this crap and our program will move forward and someday get back to being an example to others. In the meantime, bring on Tennessee and let’s get back to business.
I can get behind this! Thanks for talking me off the ledge. I appreciate the civil discourse.
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jayballer73 said: “Will Coach Self at the Helm there have been to many episodes where KU/University being in a negative light - - lack of control. - -They pretty much coming out saying Bill Self needs to be gone”
Pardon my language, but f#ck Vitale, Greenberg and anyone else who thinks Self should get fired over a fight breaking out at a sporting event. Yes, it was nasty and extreme, but we didn’t start it and no one was hurt.
If they can make a better case about the NCAA investigation into program violations - AND are willing to give the same punishments to other coaches and programs - then maybe the Self firing option is back on the table. Until then, let announcers announce, players play, coaches coach and board rats… critique and criticize but in the end support the team.
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rockchalkwyo said:
kjayhawks said:
Prepare for the shirts.
As long as the title is Pussy Pounding in Allen I’m ok with that. (Not to be confused with Tyshawn’s own version of midnight madness)
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Bill is going to win the tourney this year just to shut everyone up.
And next season all you’re going to hear about from all the talking heads is how good of a coach Self is and how good of a program he runs here in Kansas.
It’s almost too perfect.
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@Kcmatt7 Is @drgnslayr frying some tortillas or baking some thinly sliced potatoes because that smells like a chip.
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“It looked like James Love came off the bench and threw punches from Kansas State,” Fraschilla told Kurtz. “By the way, that’s the most effort I’ve seen him in three years. And I think David McCormack certainly threw punches and, you know, and was involved in some other stuff there“
Quote from Fran
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StLJhawk said:
jayballer73 said: “Will Coach Self at the Helm there have been to many episodes where KU/University being in a negative light - - lack of control. - -They pretty much coming out saying Bill Self needs to be gone”
Pardon my language, but f#ck Vitale, Greenberg and anyone else who thinks Self should get fired over a fight breaking out at a sporting event. Yes, it was nasty and extreme, but we didn’t start it and no one was hurt.
If they can make a better case about the NCAA investigation into program violations - AND are willing to give the same punishments to other coaches and programs - then maybe the Self firing option is back on the table. Until then, let announcers announce, players play, coaches coach and board rats… critique and criticize but in the end support the team.
I think they were also talking about the whole alleged minor in the athletic dorms --the pot in the dorms the whole car accident with Josh and whatever or who ever I think they’re looking at the whole string of things - -screw the media
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The media is east coast bias and always will be, remember Graysons indefinite suspension for one game
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I wish we could do more than like a post. We need the hilarious emojis!
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KU
12 games for Silvio
2 games for Dave
KSU
8 games for love
3 games for Gordon
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Get ready boys and Girls , they are supposedly getting ready to reveal what the penalities are. - -Not sure where we will find them probably off ESPN. - -I’m listening to the local spots talk program here in Topeka.
They were all guessing the suspensions, kind of surprised I actually came pretty close to what they were thinking - -we will see. - - -I got 7 for Desousa - - -2 for McCormack - - & 1 for Garrett
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I got them from Matt Tait’s twitter
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I kind of figured they’d suspend Silvio beyond the Kstate game in Manhattan.
Seems about right, IMO.
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Here you go. I’m link lazy sometimes.
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Interesting because more than 2 wildcats threw punches from I saw and I didn’t see David hit anyone. I thought he may have a game but damn.
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kjayhawks said:
Interesting because more than 2 wildcats threw punches from I saw and I didn’t see David hit anyone. I thought he may have a game but damn.
pretty reasonable - -fair -glad Garrett no suspension ,had been talk about him getting a game. – I thought sloan might get a game too. I’m ok with it
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Looking at the end of the game on the ESPN site, Self was right in the middle of the brawl and had two of the biggest KU guys by their jerseys (one in each hand, SDS & McCormack, then Garrett and SDS)) and controlled them very well. Liberace struggled with just one guy. HCBS has been hitting the weights!
