Liberace Game Thread
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@Kcmatt7 You’re probably right about not talking about it come March, but I’d be willing to bet we hear about it from opponents and the media. Hopefully, all involved can take something positive from it, accept any consequences, and move on.
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kjayhawks said:
@bskeet yep @Texas-Hawk-10 said he claimed to have pulled them off but this wasn’t the last few seconds and the steal, it was the whole time our walk ons were in. They still had starters in, Weber’s stupidity is definitely in play here.
Weber wasn’t the problem , he had instructed his players to back off and let the seconds tick off. Gordon decided to steal the ball anyways. - - the block by DeSousa was fine , it was the standing over him which they define as taunting is hat really sparked things.
Like the announcers said it is the un written law you don’t steal a ball like that when a team is dribbling out the clock - -BUT you also don’t stand over the guy and taunt him after the block. - -You blocked the lay up attempt , block it and walk the other way - - Dam how hard is that to comprehend Silvio
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HighEliteMajor said:
kjayhawks said:
@bskeet yep @Texas-Hawk-10 said he claimed to have pulled them off but this wasn’t the last few seconds and the steal, it was the whole time our walk ons were in. They still had starters in, Weber’s stupidity is definitely in play here.
Uh, no. Block the shot, high five your teammates, all smiles, game over. Easy.
Have to Agree. Like I’ve been saying you make the block – let’s them know your not getting any chump lay up at the end - - you make the block , and then turn around and WALK AWAY , - -GAME OVER end of story, yet no Silvio feels the need to stand over the top of him , that’s defined as taunting
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Decided to turn on ESPN’S Golic & Wingo this morning to see what was going to be said.
They were all in agreement that actually this lies on DeJon Gordon’s problem. - They stated that Bruce Weber had instructed his players to back off in the final seconds.
Stating Gordon steals the ball , they said at this point you have two choices as a 18 year old. - -ONE you can say ok, go ahead get your lay up you just got beat by 20 plus points -OR you can do what Silvio did which most kids this age would do try and block the shot - -BUT you don’t stand over a kid and taunt him.
They also said what Gordon done was wrong, referring it to like the unwritten law you have - I a foot ball game when the game is over and a team is in Victory formation and the other team a player comes in and try to tackle someone at his knee’s – you just don’t do that. – Same thing in /Basketball they said your getting beat by 20 plus or multiple possessions and the winning team is just trying to dribble the time off the clock , you steal the ball AFER your Coach tells you to back off , they said there is going to be consequences.
They said this now is no longer a K-State situation - -this is no longer a KU situation , this has become a KU administration/K/State administration - -Big 12 conference situation , going to be some severe suspensions
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PER’s after the Sunshine ****show
First Overall PER’s. Doke & Dot continue to lead the way.
Conference Play only PER’s.
Notice the 2 point drop from Silvio. I’d imagine the analytics accounted for picking up a chair and not using it and some missed landed punches.
On a good note- play Christian Braun. PER near 20 after last night.
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BeddieKU23 said:
PER’s after the Sunshine ****show
First Overall PER’s. Doke & Dot continue to lead the way.
Conference Play only PER’s.
Notice the 2 point drop from Silvio. I’d imagine the analytics accounted for picking up a chair and not using it and some missed landed punches.
On a good note- play Christian Braun. PER near 20 after last night.
What is particularly eye-catching is Ochai’s steep drop-off…
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Focusing on the game itself, perhaps lost in the glow of Braun’s breakout performance, it’s worth noting that the rest of the rotation players were just 2-15 from 3. Not suggesting that we wouldn’t have won without Braun going off, but it might have made for some tense moments. And, that kind of shooting is not going to get it done against better teams…
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Was listening to some more. - Golic and Wingo both saying that they were taking a beating on twitter. -Golic saying don’t tell me that Gordan didn’t intisigate this - -light the match. - -Talking about how Gordon took it on himself to steal the ball AFTER the Coach had told the players to back off… - He said now what took place afterwards , saying ya there is no place in that in Basketball. - but said you steal the ball, that’s ok , BUT it’s also ok for Silvio to block the shot. It’s the other things that took place.
They gave an example saying and or asking about Gordon and saying your down 22 points man , there is no such thing as a 22 point play in College Basketball , saying Gordon thinking well I’m going to get me two points saying that was meaningless. They gave an example saying that the U Conn Coach of the women’s basketball team - ( Geno ) -saying after U Conn getting beat by Baylor at the time – he said he told or ask his players , we were down by 16 with a minute to go in the game - - I ask them why are we still fouling down 16 points with under a minute to go - there are no 16 point shots - -makes a good point
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I believe that Silvio is done. He will be dismissed from the team. The picture of him ready to slam with the chair in his hands is disgusting.
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Yeah in conference play he hasn’t been good.
I thought last night he was really aggressive in the beginning, disappeared for a while but rebounded and defended. Missing way too many open shots though
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AsadZ said:
I believe that Silvio is done. He will be dismissed from the team. The picture of him ready to slam with the chair in his hands is disgusting.
ya I think he will be dismissed by the end of the day. - -The stool makes that pretty clear. Hard to hide such things like this - right there, no trying to deny
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I think the Big-12 gives Silvio (x amount of game suspension) but following the announcement Silvio is indefinitely suspended by Bill Self. Would be shocked if he played again this season. The intent to use the chair says it all.
Dave is probably facing 1-3 games (or more). Reckless behavior from him as well.
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Silvio de Stoolza … sigh
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So, KU scandals in the past 15 years…
Ticketgate, Sneakergate, and now Stoolgate.
In thinking about this, what I am most amazed about is that SDS seemed to have handled first the initial eligibility determination delay (when he first came out) and then the whole NCAA suspension (and more delay) with more patience and grace than anyone could have ever expected.
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@mayjay exactly, that why’s I think it was outta character.
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Bosthawk said:
Silvio de Stoolza … sigh
Well done!
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I have no input at this time - just wanted to change the number of posts…
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Who’s the attacker? Hope cooler heads prevail and these kids get another chance.
Side note (we -wife and I) are in the background behind Love’s dome.
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@dylans That is James Love. Were you able to see more details than on the film clip?
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For all of the crap that KU and Self have put up with with SDS not too mention the money spent I do not think there is any chance he is dismissed from the team. What he did was dumb but it is not the end of the world.
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Let’s plan ahead here. What would be a new thread title for round 2 next month? See, I think of the important stuff.
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This is the last straw for me. The scandals, the corruption, late night, a stubborn, inflexible coach, players who just aren’t all that interested in KU putting on the uniform and on and on. Fatigue and apathy has finally set in for me as I cannot identify with this brand of athletics.
There is no justification or contextual mitigation for any of what occurred last night. This team is in total disarray and lacks any kind of self-control. That starts at the top. Perhaps a major change is finally in order because I simply cannot support or condone such unscrupulous behavior. All this time I really wanted to believe we were the good guys. But we’re really no better than anyone else. In fact, yesterday may prove once and for all we are the complete antithesis of “good”.
If ANY team in the country should have avoided the shenanigans from last night it was KU. But they simply cannot get out of their own way. We are now all over the sports media and the regular media for all the wrong reasons yet again. It’s disgusting.
Something needs to change.
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Hmm, while it is embarrassing, and really poor timing, the fact that a long-time, in-state rival pulled a bonehead move by stealing the ball when they are down by 20 with a few seconds left on the clock, followed by a really frustrated college kid legally blocking the shot then gloating for a second, followed by said instate rivals starting a shoving match, at our house, which caused more kids to get involved, to me, hardly constitutes “the complete antithesis of good”.
Sports and emotions are completely intertwined. Do you feel happy when we win? Sad when we lose? How about really really happy when we win an NC? How about really really sad when we lose to team at the Dance we know we can beat 9 times out of 10?
Now imagine you’re a testosterone filled college kid who’s had an incredibly tough time the past few years on the court last night in the above scenario.
Do we expect better of him? Of course we do. Was it a total boneheaded move not to just flex and walk away after the block? Of course it was. Was the stool thing scary and completely out of line and calls for severe punishment? Of course it does.
Does the emotional outburst of a kid athlete, and other kids rushing to his defense, mean the whole program is in the sh!tter? In my opinion, of course it doesn’t.
Is our squeaky clean reputation a thing of past? Yea, for awhile it sure looks like it. Had we better learn from this? Hell yes we better.
Am is still proud to be a Jayhawk? Well my pride is a little bruised right now, but, yea, hell yes I am.
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Silvio suspended indefinitely, per Self. Pending Big 12 review.
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FarmerJayhawk said:
Silvio suspended indefinitely, per Self. Pending Big 12 review.
Yeah the indefinitely tag seemed like the easiest way to make a swift move so they can continue to review everything
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Why do fans care what other fans and or media says about there team? I will never understand that.
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@Woodrow BiRGing.
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Something just occurred to me: did anyone notice how many long distance shot attempts SDS missed in the brawl? Obviously he’s not the answer to the search for a 4 with range.
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PER dropped him 2 points for the chair drop & missed attempts
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Ok help me out, please. I heard a couple people and saw a sign that said something about Bruce eating soup. Eat your soup Bruce. Bruce eats soup with a fork.
What’s that about??? @BShark @FarmerJayhawk @kjayhawks @anyone?!?
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@mayjay He’s form is correctable. He just needs to stop leaning back on his release.
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Silvio is quite the lightning rod. All the talk in the press seems to be about him rather than the K-State players. This is not fair.
It is definitely his fault for taunting after the block. The technical foul was fair. But the physical altercation was instigated and escalated by K-State players-- multiple individuals.
In the video, what I see is KState players running to confront Silvio. One of them pushes him. I see Silvio brush that push away and another player pushes him and he begins to push away and back at the same time (look closely-- his hands are not clenched; they are open to deflect the aggressors.)
There are at least two pushing him, maybe three. Meanwhile, everyone around Silvio is telling him to stop because they are all KU fans. It looks to me like he’s trying to not over-react for a couple of seconds while the K-State players have no one holding them back. Then the third guy lunges and pushes Silvio down and he comes up swinging.
I think it’s important to look at Silvio’s body language in those early moments. He is not trying to fight at first. He gets provoked and then all hell breaks loose. The stool incident I see as an instinctive act… and one that he fortunately is able to overcome with help of those around him.
Silvio is justifiably being called out. But he should not be singled out. The players from K-State who were responsible for the escalation and the first physical acts should be equally called out.
As is often the case when there is great disparity between two forces, the smaller power can’t win with the traditional rules, so they resort to guerrilla tactics to get the bigger power to do something uncharacteristic. Silvio bit on the bait.
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bskeet said:
Silvio is justifiably being called out. But he should not be singled out.
He picked up a stool. That is why he is singled out.
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Agree: the stool has bad optics.
However, I think what is easily overlooked – and not evident in a still photo – is that he de-escalated quickly.
I think it would be worthwhile to at least acknowledge that in the reporting. It’s not an effort to condone his actions… just to be a bit more fair and balanced.
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People see what they wanna see!
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@bskeet After the stool he still ran over with David to keep going at Love who had fallen. It’s all bad.
I understand in fights you are not thinking but unfortunately for SDS he will be made an example out of.
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BigBad said:
@bskeet After the stool he still ran over with David to keep going at Love who had fallen. It’s all bad.
I understand in fights you are not thinking but unfortunately for SDS he will be made an example out of.
I think that’s fine as long as they make an example out of Love as well. What Love did was every bit as inexcusable as what Silvio did.
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bskeet said:
BigBad said:
@bskeet After the stool he still ran over with David to keep going at Love who had fallen. It’s all bad.
I understand in fights you are not thinking but unfortunately for SDS he will be made an example out of.
I think that’s fine as long as they make an example out of Love as well. What Love did was every bit as inexcusable as what Silvio did.
Worse in my opinion. He wasn’t a part of the game. If that’s allowed we should have a new football player walk-on destroy a guy every game.
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@dylans Exactly. If Love gets his hand slapped, prepare to see a new benchwarmer: The Enforcer. The designated guy who can come in with impunity and kick ass.
But to the earlier point: where is Love in the coverage of the event?
And he wasn’t the instigator… he just escalated it. The instigator and the escalator are not the focus of the pundits.
Holding KU to a higher standard?
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Andy Katz just reported that the Big 12 will announce by the end of the day about brawl. - make some kind of announcement
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Our local sports program said they had a couple at the game last night and was giving there views - lot of more slap fighting then real punches - -Saying really the only true punch came after Sloan pushed Silvio and then he came up swinging.
They are thinking three from each team probably be suspended - - Silvio - - -David - - & Marcus from KU - - And then Gordan- - - -Love – and Sloan from K-state. they said Sloan actually had as much to do with this whole thing as Silvio.
They was also saying for people that are over reacting saying Silvio will suspended for the year or dismissed - -they said get a grip and then brought up when Marcus Smart went into the stands and hit a fan - - he got 3 games - -just a mess
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dylans said:
Ok help me out, please. I heard a couple people and saw a sign that said something about Bruce eating soup. Eat your soup Bruce. Bruce eats soup with a fork.
What’s that about??? @BShark @FarmerJayhawk @kjayhawks @anyone?!?
I think it’s just a dig at how nerdy and awkward he is.
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@dylans “If that’s allowed we should have a new football player walk-on destroy a guy every game.”
Been tried, but by Coach Woody Hayes instead of by a player.
https://www.espn.com/college-football/bowls13/story/_/id/10215217/the-punch-ended-woody-hayes-career
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Announcement should be coming around 5pm this evening
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I appreciate your reply.
Look, I understand the bush-league steal at the end of the game given the circumstance. I also understand the vicious block and the stare down was months of frustration, suspension and current lack of playing time flowing out of Silvio. If it had ended there I could explain it away as competitiveness. This went way beyond that.
You say emotion and sports are intertwined. Agreed. However, one has to be able to harness said emotion and channel it in the correct way, something we did not do. Exuberance in victory and sadness in defeat are very different from physically attacking an opponent. And I don’t care who instigated or escalated the situation. As difficult as it is we simply HAVE to have more awareness and control to walk away - especially so due to looming NCAA sanctions.
Lastly, please don’t conflate criticism with not being a Jayhawk. I have followed this program since I was a boy and I want to see it thrive. But it’s getting harder and harder to ignore the string of black marks leveled against this program in recent years. And it’s getting harder and harder to treat them as anomalous or isolated incidents or just part of doing business in the current climate. As much as it pains me to say it, we are trending downward as a program and the brawl will do nothing to alleviate that. The “stool seen round the world” is going to hurt, I promise you. Ironically, getting hit with the stool might have been less painful.
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kjayhawks said:
Prepare for the shirts.
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we will know the outcome at 5 supposedly . The reason is Goolsby is in California dealing with a problem there.
Came across WIBW - so i guess they will say what suspensions are give out - – who is getting suspensions and such.
Dakich and Greenburg on their podcast of ESPN, - -started talking about this will not be a Bill Self decision ,this will not be a Bruce Weber decision – this is an administration decision. - then they talked about if I was a Chancellor or AD- if I kept seeing my institution at the bottom of a document - -things needed to change , pretty much talking about there needed to be a change - -they were saying Coach Self needed to be out. - Will Coach Self at the Helm there have been to many episodes where KU/University being in a negative light - - lack of control. - -They pretty much coming out saying Bill Self needs to be gone
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@tis4tim And I appreciate yours too. Totally agree, the players and coaches have to have more awareness, especially these days. Also appreciate it being hard to ignore the black marks the program’s been getting lately. We’ve always set such a good example and it’s been easy to feel good about the integrity of our program… a lot harder to wear the holier than thou hat these days.
And anybody contributing regularly on these boards as you have over the years is undoubtedly a Jayhawk. Last night was painful and embarrassing. It’s just with all the heaping on of negativity from all sides, and the histrionics from Vitale and the like, I just felt the need to say I think a fight breaking out in sports, while headline grabbing is not the end of the world. We’ll learn from this crap and our program will move forward and someday get back to being an example to others. In the meantime, bring on Tennessee and let’s get back to business.
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StLJhawk said:
We’ll learn from this crap and our program will move forward and someday get back to being an example to others. In the meantime, bring on Tennessee and let’s get back to business.
I can get behind this! Thanks for talking me off the ledge. I appreciate the civil discourse.
