VICK GONE for Good this time???
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Kcmatt7 said:
Self needs to do some serious reflection after this season. It all finally caught up to him in one giant shit storm. You just can’t take risky kids with character issues. And those that have them when they get here need to get gone immediately.
Time to start a new recruiting approach and at least give the program a facelift. This was the straw that broke the camels back for me. I always thought he basically had everything under control. This season is proof that he has just been putting bandaids on the leak. Recruit high character kids, and the results will be the results. I can live with that.
I agree with you, but I think last year’s class was a HUGE step in the right direction.
This is certainly an interesting topic so let’s look at the roster
Dotson - Zero issues here. Good talent, great character.
Grimes - Everyone missed here, but I think he can be productive and part of the core of a winning team if he sticks it out. Doesn’t seem like a bad kid just FR struggles.
McCormack - By all accounts high character. Needs the game to slow down for him, just not ready yet. A typical #75-100 type recruit that got bumped up in a weak class.
Agbaji - Excellent character, fast learner. Good basketball player all around.
Garrett - Excellent character with one fatal flaw in his game which tbf is a big one.
Lightfoot - High character bench player.
Udoka - Great kid and effective player but injury prone.
Silvio - Honestly, great kid with a shitty handler. I would say it’s best to avoid “handlers” when possible. Obviously, Self was desperate at the time Silvio was acquired.
Moore - Forced transfer take after recruiting misses. Too short and just not a good fit for Self.
Dedric - Talented but definitely questionable character.
KJ - Had to take him to get Dedric…
Vick - Late take after recruiting misses. Then Self wanted to boot him but felt he couldn’t. Had he known how good Agbaji would be…
So, imo 7 great takes, 1otherwise good take with terrible timing and 4 meh takes. Thoughts?
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Kcmatt7 said:
So, seriously, time to start thinking about pulling Elliot’s redshirt?
Pretty sure it’s academic so no.
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Well it’s over for sure now guys, - -you thought we struggled before - - look the hell out. - -Really our only 3 pt threat - -now don’t come to me talking about an cancer. - - I realize that - -all I’m saying we are SO SCREWED. - -hope we realize we end up being a really low seed realistically were probably looking at a 8-9 seed - -as we are gonna really struggle finishing this season out - we looking at probably 4 more league losses for sure.
K- State at home - - -Texas Tech at Tech - -Maybe Baylor - - - - -Geez this season has been a diaster. - -We went from a very serious title contender to a very average team - – Doke OUT - - - Desousa - -NOPE – Garrett – OUT - – -now Vick Gone - -we went from a very deep talented team -depth at every position to very shallow NO DEPTH
We are in serious jeopardy - - of breaking our streak of consecutive weeks in the top 25 which we have the Nation’s longest -SOB what a screwed up season
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BShark said:
Vick was far and away the worst player in the KSU game. I didn’t think this would happen but I think it’s a good move.
IT’S CHUCK TIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIME.
Are you FRICKEN NUTS ? – have you just totally lost your mind ?
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“We need him here for a couple weeks,” La La Vick told The Star. “I need him. There’s a lot going on. It’ll work out.” Only statement from Lala or Vick himself
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Weird
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Well this should force the end of the 4 guard lineup experiment.
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@BeddieKU23 It wasn’t working anyway
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jayballer73 said:
BShark said:
Vick was far and away the worst player in the KSU game. I didn’t think this would happen but I think it’s a good move.
IT’S CHUCK TIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIME.
Are you FRICKEN NUTS ? – have you just totally lost your mind ?
Are you aware how bad Vick was against KSU? That loss was almost on him exclusively. When Vick was not playing, KU was whipping KSU in those stretches.
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BeddieKU23 said:
Well this should force the end of the 4 guard lineup experiment.
You’d think so with 4 guards, 3 bigs and…w/e position KJ is.
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So, ladies and gents. This is the team we would have had all year if Vick, Doke and Silvio had all been picked up by the league. Except we’d have at least 5 more losses.
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Currently eligible and healthy from the 2015 and 2016 recruiting classes: Mitch Lightfoot.
To your earlier point @Kcmatt7
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BShark said:
My guess is Vick is done at KU.
Ya think? – common sense would tell you that - -9 regular season games to go. - -I would be willing to bet he said screw this- - -which is just total immaturity on his part- -what a dumpster fire this is
Anyone wanting to guess what our regular season record ends up? - - Anyone want to wager their house about us getting out of the 1st round in the NCAA ?
This has been brought up in another thread here - -who thinks Bill might have lost this team? - - - Grimes - - - Vick -cancer’s ?
This just adds to the possibility that YES this very well just might be Coach Self’s last year with all that has happened this year - -on top of the possibility of more penalities that might be coming from the NCAA - - ban from post season? - -Stripped of Victories ? - - -Vacating the final 4 ? - -The FBI Trial ? - -the Connection with Coach and the Spurs - - - -Pops looking at retiring soon ? - - -Rumor has been said that Self had said that the Spurs would be the ONE team he would be interested in. – Get that list with names ready boys.
This year could be the year Coach says F - - - this - -he Gonna say – Cindy - - let’s loadem up - -holy crap what a cluster F - - - don’t laugh - -it could easily happen
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Self might go, but it won’t be to the NBA…
See also: Bob Stoops
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BeddieKU23 said:
No Vick to get more Charlie. Not sure we won on that
Exactly - - thank you - - and NO that is NOT a win for sure - - -this has been a crap year for Sports for sure - - Football sucked - - -Again - - - Basketball is going down the tubes - -QUICK - - Volleyball was sad - -Baseball psssssst - -do we have badminton here ? lmao
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nuleafjhawk said:
We’re the laughingstock of the Big 12. It’s going to be so funny when we win number 15 in a few weeks.
psssst HEY can you give me some of the shit you been smokin ? - -that must be some REALLY good shit roflmao. - In all seriousness you might wanna put the pipe down and slowly back away -come on Get real
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BShark said:
BeddieKU23 said:
No Vick to get more Charlie. Not sure we won on that
So, the healthy and eligible roster right now
Dotson, Grimes, Agbaji, Moore, Lawson, Lawson, Mitch, McCormack
We are foul trouble away from TEAHAN TIME.
Dam was good double now for sure we pulled the Re Shirt -just think about that lol
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BeddieKU23 said:
BShark said:
BeddieKU23 said:
No Vick to get more Charlie. Not sure we won on that
So, the healthy and eligible roster right now
Dotson, Grimes, Agbaji, Moore, Lawson, Lawson, Mitch, McCormack
We are foul trouble away from TEAHAN TIME.
I wish I was surprised but the last few years have numbed away being pissed off about not having enough players or depth. It’s a circus
I didn’t get to see the Circus this year when it came to town – I’ll have to check it out Saturday lol
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BShark said:
BeddieKU23 said:
BShark said:
BeddieKU23 said:
No Vick to get more Charlie. Not sure we won on that
So, the healthy and eligible roster right now
Dotson, Grimes, Agbaji, Moore, Lawson, Lawson, Mitch, McCormack
We are foul trouble away from TEAHAN TIME.
I wish I was surprised but the last few years have numbed away being pissed off about not having enough players or depth. It’s a circus
Well to be fair it’s hard to account for two injuries. Even in this crap scenario if Garrett and Doke were just healthy there would be more than enough depth.
So for now, Self pretty much has to play all 8 guys. We will get to see if Dave and KJ can adapt.
In the mean time…I heard KU is recruiting this player…
My Kingdom - - My Kingdom - we can always say we got him from a Nike School lol
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@jayballer73 We will see how this all shakes out. I still think Self should have stuck to his guns and had Vick take the last train out of town last summer. But he missed on Romeo and Cremo so he couldn’t resist taking Vick back. I strongly believe Vick has been a bad influence on the young players. We will find out A LOT over the next 5 games. Just this board rat’s opinion.
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BShark said:
jayballer73 said:
BShark said:
Vick was far and away the worst player in the KSU game. I didn’t think this would happen but I think it’s a good move.
IT’S CHUCK TIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIME.
Are you FRICKEN NUTS ? – have you just totally lost your mind ?
Are you aware how bad Vick was against KSU? That loss was almost on him exclusively. When Vick was not playing, KU was whipping KSU in those stretches.
nope NOT at all - - Charlie has been a night mare ALL YEAR - -soon as his little feet hits the floor it turns into turnover city trying to drive through like one on three - -chucks up some kind of a bullshit wing and prayer - - just Ugly - - real ugly - -oh I’m sure he will play , have no option - don’t really think it is gonna matter who we try playing now - - it’s kind of funny that I actually find myself looking towards KU spring football - -and their upcoming season BUT I am dam. - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
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@BShark Can you prove you thought Self should have stuck to his guns when Vick came back? Easy to say now? I know a lot of us were pretty pleased when he came back. He had a pretty strong season last year. If you can prove it I’ll leave you alone
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@wissox I went digging. I found arguments with jb about his position. I won’t link any of that silliness…
Then there is this where I was pretty clear about not wanting Vick back: https://kubuckets.com/topic/7578/heres-your-mystery-recruit-legerald-vick-lol/29
I was slightly off on KJ…well kinda… I don’t think KJ has been terrible, he just doesn’t get minutes.
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BShark said:
@jayballer73 We will see how this all shakes out. I still think Self should have stuck to his guns and had Vick take the last train out of town last summer. But he missed on Romeo and Cremo so he couldn’t resist taking Vick back. I strongly believe Vick has been a bad influence on the young players. We will find out A LOT over the next 5 games. Just this board rat’s opinion.
I agree with the bad influence part. This team definitely took on the identity of a leader and that leader just happened to be Vick. This team definitely has had his personality for most of the season so now I’m curious to see who steps up or if this team takes on someone else’s personality.
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And the train continues to derail… Interesting about Vick. Pure speculation, but I wonder if he went off his meds and mom wants him to come home to get him back on track. Who knows, maybe it really is a family emergency. He is a head case, but we could use his shooting. Then again, when he was on the bench the other day, we did have a good run. He’s no leader, but maybe the problem is we have no other leaders to keep him in line.
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P.S.: LOVE the mustache mystery man! Hi-larious.
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I think I am glad I was able to deal with all the great traumas in my life–my failures, my decades of depression, my disappointments, and my inability to meet the expectations of others–out of the public eye. With that perspective, a few impressions:
I look at Grimes, and it is obvious he is clueless about how to be that fluid 1st rounder, and how to fix things when the game is going too fast. I see a guy who would have benefitted from expecting to develop more gradually, but modern cbb doesn’t allow that anymore.
I look at Dedrick, who has put up AA stats this year despite inconsistent passing to him and with no help in the post where he has been forced to play as the only big, and I see people questioning his effort? or his character? And I think, wow, has he ever complained? Is his stoic expression more important to people than his single-handedly keeping us as competitive as we have been?
I look at Mitch and wish he had been allowed to play the small forward position, and I marvel at his ability to stay enthusiastic. Despite having to come in as a 1.5 ppg undersized player expected to turn it around in the middle when everyone is floundering.
I look at Charlie Moore, and the only flaw I see is that he tries too hard, goes too fast, and tries to change every game with boneheaded “hero” shot selection. His passes would have led to twice as many assists but for the team’s crappy shooting.
And Vick. I look at Vick, and like everyone I wonder what is going on. If it is a mental issue, it is largely beyond both his control and his own understanding. If it is emotional distraction from outside, I can only hope he can learn to deal with it–maybe getting out of the glare will help. I see someone whose face alternates reflecting either a wild fierceness or a bizarre disconnect to the game around him. I see someone whose talent belies the ropes holding him back. And I wonder how heavy it may be for him, knowing at times he is the savior of the team and at other times the anchor dragging the team down.
Finally, I see fans dealing with seeing a team of lofty expectations appearing to dismantle as we watch. Disappointment, anger, cynicism, hopelessness and helplessness all combining to just sap the joy out of us.
I know 2 things, going way back to my very first post a couple or three years ago: those kids are out there trying so freaking hard, and they are vastly more crushed than we are when they lose. So, I am going to do what I can to remind myself that there is always a lot of fun watching KU, and that I can be both disappointed and appreciative for the team, and that if this year is a bust I guess reality had to come sometime. Almost a decade and a half of championship ball (conference AND an NC) is something no other fanbase has ever had. I refuse to let the possibility of it ending get in the way of my unbridled pride in the kids who have made it possible. I hope I never join KU’s enemies by thinking of ANY KU team as losers.
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@mayjay nice write!
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@Crimsonorblue22 Thanks. I think I get a different perspective by being out of the media cauldron surrounding KU. I get to see games every few days, participate here, and just read a few national websites, so I am not riding anyone else’s emotional roller coasters. (Except my wife when she screams or gets really nervous, but she does that about “Family Feud” and “Deal or No Deal?” also, so…)
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@BShark Kudos! I saw some reluctance, but not overwhelming evidence, to not wanting him back. But I guess the evidence clears you of all presumptions of mine that you were just blowing smoke!
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I just want him to get straightened out, for his family’s sake. Self was really bragging on him in the preseason. Is there something affecting his play? I don’t know. That family needs Vick to play bb.
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I feel like Bill Murray in Ground Hog Day and ready for this to end.
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I think Vick has always had off-court tough things to deal with. That has finally reached a point where he needs time at home. It’s a coin flip if he returns, but what we need to do is think positive and support him during this tough time. He’s a Jayhawk, and there is clearly no bad intent here on his part.
Perhaps his absence may help the team regain a bit more focus down the stretch.
We have reached a magic moment when the streak is at stake and the struggle should help toughen up our young guys. I still wouldn’t be surprised if we win out in the league. I recall what happened with the 2012 team without a single McDs AA after TRob’s tragedy.
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@drgnslayr @mayjay i appreciate the level-headed optimism and compassion here. Thanks for sharing!
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truehawk93 said:
I feel like Bill Murray in Ground Hog Day and ready for this to end.
Me, too! But, we have to remember that there was a significant moral in Groundhog Day: You have to learn really important things about yourself and change to move forward.
Either that, or the message is you will likely make a few thousand dunderheaded mistakes before you can get laid by the woman of your dreams. I get so confused by deep movies…
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His head hasn’t been in the game in quite a while. i hope whatever is going on, he finds some kind of resolution to it, and he can come back with a fresh mind, and play like he did the start of the year. i hope the team rallies, and strings some wins together. This might turn out to be a blessing … you never know.
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Here’s what losing Vick means to this team:
NOTHING
Other than the first 4 or 5 games, he’s been a distraction and a disappointment. He’s not a good team player and he is not a leader. Vicks absence will only help this team. Not having a lot of “depth” is, in my opinion, a great thing - barring more injuries. If 6-7 players can learn to play well together (maybe we could try 6 or 7 at one time…never mind), it’s a WHOLE lot better than trying to get 9 or 10 players happy getting them minutes and disrupting whatever flow there had been.
Bye Vick. Don’t come back.
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I agree with @BShark I don’t think Self is notorious for recruiting bad kids, I don’t believe it for a minute. Yes we have had a few bad apples and so has just about every other program at any level. Is it Self’s fault that Doke and Garrett are injured? Now you could argue that some of the SDS situation is Self’s fault, I still think we have 1 or 2 losses to date if we have all of our players that we were supposed to. Ochai, Dotson and Grimes are all freshman, they aren’t getting into trouble, they are playing like freshman at times. Garrett, Moore and KJ are just sophomores, they don’t have loads of experience either. The only character issues on this team could be Vick. But I’ll say it again for those in the back, WE DON"T KNOW WHAT HAS HAPPEN CUT THE GUY SOME SLACK!! At least until we know more, should change the name of this post to reasons to hate Vick.
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I received a little second hand info last night that Vick apparently used an expletive directed at Self, and said he “quit”, after the KSU game. The source, friend of a friend stuff, is supposedly inside the program. But this should obviously just be treated as mere rumor, kept here, and not repeated on social media.
Regardless, It is obvious that we should be extremely skeptical of the vague “leave of absence.” If we’ve known anything of Bill Self, he does a great job of giving his players cover for their indiscretions. There is no value in embarrassing a player.
My point there is, I guess, that unless we have something concrete, I don’t think we owe Vick any sympathy or empathy right now. From my view, the presumption is that this is another instance of making one’s own bed. All signs point to that.
Heck, there’s been a number of obvious issues with him throughout this season.
Self said this last season, after benching Vick and when asked what he meant about his “selfish” comment, " “Thoughts, thoughts. Not carrying out an assignment, not running or executing a play hard because you know it’s not for you, things like that.” Regarding benching Vick last season, Self said, "“I am predicting the guys that start will try harder than the guys that started the last game.”
This clearly seemed to be the issue this week at KSU.
I was very much for his return this season and thought it could be a moment of maturity. A humbling experience. Signs here would strongly suggest that those thoughts were incorrect.
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Same “Family issues” as Naadir Tharpe.
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Mutual parting of ways. Wasn’t working out for anyone so Vick is gone for good.
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@HighEliteMajor You are a 100% correct and the rumor is prob true but I just don’t like throwing one of our own under the bus continuously til we know a little more.
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@HighEliteMajor Oh he quit DURING the game too. Thanks for sharing.
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I was still in school when Vick was a freshman. I was at a party and he was hitting on one of my friends. She asked who he was, and this was his response:
“You don’t know me? What do you mean, you don’t know me? I’m on the basketball team. Legarald Vick. Look it up.”
And then he legit got so worked up and pissed off that she didn’t know who he was that he left the entire party. He is, and always has been, an asshole who felt like he was better than he really was. He shouldn’t have been brought back this offseason, that was a mistake from the beginning.
Self should have talked Newman into staying.
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@Kcmatt7 That story is a big YIKES. And yes, Newman would have been MUCH better to retain but he wanted to go pro.
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I’m having a hard time wrapping my mind around where Vick is mentally. Self gives him a second chance and praised him repeatedly for his effort in camp and early in the season. If he could play consistently as he did early both this year and last, he would a first round pick. It would be a win win for all parties involved, He has a daughter maybe he is having issues with her, him quiting would basically put his NBA dreams on life support if there isn’t a lajit reason.
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Well, as has been said in so many ways here over the years, we have had it very good as KU fans. Our team wins way more than they lose, and as a top tier D1 program, we stay up there because of the nature of the beast that is college basketball. ( Hall of fame coach, ability to recruit, 1st class facilities, unparalleled tradition of excellence, and total commitment from the school to keep it that way) The rich stay rich. We were ranked #1 by many at start of season, a familiar spot.
Now it’s time to man up and fan up. Things now aren’t where we are used to. From the fbi investigations to Vick leaving, this season has been flat out tough on us . Too many lost guys (including Jaybate who would be trying to rally us right now with another crazy-brilliant novella-post to make us see things in a new light)
We have been temporarily kicked out of the pent house and are now down on the streets fighting like all the rest. And many other rival fans in the B12 and elsewhere are gloating about our troubles, and may be licking their chops. I fear (hopefully not too many ) at least a few more court storming in rival gyms coming up.
Look at it this way…it’s a good time to be a fan. !!!
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Matt Tait mentioned there might have been a players only meeting Wednesday… Good time to have one
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@Kcmatt7 99% of basketball players are like that. That really isn’t that surprising.
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Woe is us…lol. Our rebuild year off a Final Four is Top 15. Oh, the agony. Once again, i repeat … the season isn’t over…life as we know it hasn’t ended quite yet. We’re still making sausage, and no doubt this team has taken forever to develop. A few of the players have stunk so far. It’s not fatal- players can improve …teams can improve. Maybe the subtraction of Vick will help a few of the guys ( Charlie/KJ) to relax and play better than what they’ve shown. In fact, Charlie looked a lot better last game. No doubt he’s had his crummy moments, but it is what it is. Whether I’m happy or unhappy about it, the season will unfold as it unfolds. None of us know what our results will be, although many of us have a good idea about it. I simply know the chapter hasn’t been written yet, so there is still hope. I’m not going to sit around feeling bad over what’s happened so far- I’m going to look to the future, and hope for the best.
