Self's Scrappers vs The Huggins Sub .500 Game Thread
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My money is on ISU Monday no question after this performance.
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Don’t think I can even find joy rooting against Kentucky now
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@kjayhawks If we lose Monday kiss the streak bye bye.
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@Big-Clyde52 I don’t think we lose Monday…but this was a bad loss…really hurts.
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Oh the streak is over. ISU will drub KU again. Prohm is a good coach.
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I think we get hammered Monday and limp into the NCAA tournament and get hammered by some mid major first game.
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I’m over the streak. I just want to see this team improve every game. That includes Self getting better in the 2nd half. He has to be one of the worst coach from minutes 21-38 in the country.
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Kcmatt7 said:
I’m over the streak. I just want to see this team improve every game. That includes Self getting better in the 2nd half. He has to be one of the worst coach from minutes 21-38 in the country.
This is where I am at with it too. As anyone besides Garrett improved much over the course of the season?
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Second game we have blown with 6 point lead under 2 minutes to go.
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Garrett is attacking the rim. Props there. That makes his lineup presence a positive. Really like what I’ve seen.
It’s a bit sad that we can script something for Dedric.
Heck, Dotson couldn’t even get open to get the ball in his hands.
SDS becoming eligible is perhaps THE key moving forward.
@Kcmatt7 I’ve been over the streak for quit a while … like since it started. We play this game as a blue blood to be a champion. It’s like the Braves winning the NL East. Nice streak. Impressive. One title.
BUT THIS IS FAR FROM OVER ON ALL FRONTS. Lots of season left. Heck, we could win the tourney as a 5 seed.
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Bill went full on squeak there
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Self admits he should have called timeout. Cant take it back now
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We are damn lucky to have 15 wins. Could very easy be 11-7 or worse if not for several career games by Vick. Hard to be excited about this team going forward. ZERO consistent shooters, inconsistent inside play, very sloppy with our positions, terrible FT shooters. Could go on but I digress. Just totally disgusted.
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BShark said:
Kcmatt7 said:
I’m over the streak. I just want to see this team improve every game. That includes Self getting better in the 2nd half. He has to be one of the worst coach from minutes 21-38 in the country.
This is where I am at with it too. As anyone besides Garrett improved much over the course of the season?
Nope. And with Doke gone we are a team without an offensive identity. Our guards don’t see the floor well enough to get any sort of offensive flow. And now we are sitting Ochai and stunting his growth and killing confidence.
As good as Bill Self is, there is a reason for only one NC. He is competitive to a fault and stunts team development. My opinion at least.
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@Big-Clyde52 Sorry, I meant possessions, not positions. But I am not to happy with our position either.
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HighEliteMajor said:
Garrett is attacking the rim. Props there. That makes his lineup presence a positive. Really like what I’ve seen.
It’s a bit sad that we can script something for Dedric.
Heck, Dotson couldn’t even get open to get the ball in his hands.
SDS becoming eligible is perhaps THE key moving forward.
@Kcmatt7 I’ve been over the streak for quit a while … like since it started. We play this game as a blue blood to be a champion. It’s like the Braves winning the NL East. Nice streak. Impressive. One title.
BUT THIS IS FAR FROM OVER ON ALL FRONTS. Lots of season left. Heck, we could win the tourney as a 5 seed.
It just became the one goal. Instead of a part of the journey. Self even seems overly fixated on it.
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Kcmatt7 said:
HighEliteMajor said:
Garrett is attacking the rim. Props there. That makes his lineup presence a positive. Really like what I’ve seen.
It’s a bit sad that we can script something for Dedric.
Heck, Dotson couldn’t even get open to get the ball in his hands.
SDS becoming eligible is perhaps THE key moving forward.
@Kcmatt7 I’ve been over the streak for quit a while … like since it started. We play this game as a blue blood to be a champion. It’s like the Braves winning the NL East. Nice streak. Impressive. One title.
BUT THIS IS FAR FROM OVER ON ALL FRONTS. Lots of season left. Heck, we could win the tourney as a 5 seed.
It just became the one goal. Instead of a part of the journey. Self even seems overly fixated on it.
I agree and I find it disturbing.
Oh and I don’t think this team has any chance to win the NCAAT. Certainly not w/o Silvio.
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Kcmatt7 said:
And now we are sitting Ochai and stunting his growth and killing confidence.
Ochai today wasn’t playing like we’ve seen previously. 3 turnovers in 4 minutes, missed his only shot under the basket, his first miss at the rim in the games he’s played. Sitting him the 2nd half wasn’t a horrible idea. He’ll bounce back.
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Without Doke Dedrics lack of athleticism is really hurting us. Dave has the energy and size but is out of position a lot. Mitch was brain dead. The post is wide open for biz against us. Zero rim protection. Mr Lawyer, we need SDS in the worst way.
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Dedric was getting pushed around by Culver under the rim all day.
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Young team going through growing pains and Self letting them make those mistakes. This team has learn to close out games at some point on the road and this is the only to do so is to be in the situations. Frustrating when they can’t do it, but they have to figure it out on their own at some point though.
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To think that this group was picked number 1 preseason by many. Certainly not playing anything close to it now. Lots of issues. Perhaps the biggest difference from past KU teams is the complete absence of a transition game. The Hawks have always been known for being able to run the break, create points off of steals and win the transition game. Not so with this team. Unless Dotson can get past everyone with speed for a layup, we can’t score in transition - no one knows how to run a break or can finish at the rim…
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Outside of Garrett our effort just hasnt been there the last 3 games IMO. We aren’t the first team on the floor, we are beat down the floor.
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I’m sorry but I’m tired of Dedric. He isn’t competitive, doesn’t hustle, cant jump, cant slide his feet, and most importantly is not a leader. He reminds me a lot of the stat stuffing guys on a lot of NBA losing teams.
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@Texas-Hawk-10 did you see post game w/players? Marcus said they have a play to run at the end, chop, they practice it. It’s better to run in a broken court so the D doesn’t set up. Guess they didn’t all understand. Dble bonus, get down hill. Not all of them w/a hi bb IQ
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@BigBad And maybe most important, useless on D in the paint along with Grimes, vick, Charlie who also play zero D.
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@Fightsongwriter you forgot KJs ill advised shots and loosey defense.
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Dedric has been big 12 player of the week numerous times. Has numerous dble dbles
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@Crimsonorblue22 Stat stuffing does not equate to wins.
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@BigBad where would we be w/out him?
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I can dislike a player while realizing we’d be worse without him.
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I think Vick is a waste as well but we’d have 3/4 more losses without him.
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@BigBad not much about KU bb you like, huh?
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I’m 45 years old. I don’t waste time cheer leading. I call it like I see it. Aside from watching Dotson mature, this is the least fun Kansas team to watch in a long time.
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@Crimsonorblue22 I didn’t, but it doesn’t surprise me. This is a selfish team for the most part that doesn’t share the ball well so I’m not surprised they butchered chop as badly as they did.
I have a feeling there was a lot of this team not doing what Self wanted to do and following scouting reports so I suspect Self let them do it on their own and they couldn’t. Should be a good teaching film in the video room tonight or tomorrow. Hopefully it turns out like the Hack-a-Doke game in Norman last year and is where this team turns a corner.
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Ugh. well, the ONE game i do get to watch live…that didn’t go so well. Nothing unusual to see here. We lose like we usually lose in West Virginia. Tons of turnovers, no energy for that enthusiastic defense, lack of focus, etc. no big surprise. YET, i’m completely surprised we lost that game. again. we had the lead multiple times, committed careless, stupid turnovers, then crapped the bed.
A few thoughts on the chaos:
– Grimes’ stupendously amazingly idiotic foul on the 3pt corner shot was a game changer in my mind. It was an out-of-control shot anyway, let him have it.
– Grimes, Part II: If you can’t keep him in front of you, knock that WVU douche on his ass and don’t let him drive uncontested for a layup! At least he could miss a free throw, stop the clock, give us another decent shot.
– WTF is KJ doing taking all those 3s and wild ass shots??? Puhleeze!!! And dribbing! Many lost possessions from his lack of talent.
– So many turnovers, as usual. But so many turnovers were just so inexcusable. Passes for layups, turnover. Man. Coach i’m sure emphasized how important every possession can be in a game like that.
– WVU had a great game plan for Dedric. Didn’t let him touch it within 12 feet of the hoop. Forced him outside. Worked.
– Same with Vick. Didn’t let him spot up much. that and the above were the main difference in the game.
– Disappointing loss. that could be the difference in winning/losing the league this year.
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After further reflection…and a couple of glasses of wine…I just can’t believe that on two straight possessions, we ended up with Garrett trying to score off of the drive…I know he has been doing that well lately…but our first option should be Dedric, or Vick (when he is OPEN) or Dotson driving…since he is a good FT shooter…Garrett should drive when those options aren’t open… Tell me folks…Am I wrong about this??
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@jayhawkcsg Your last sentence summed it up…really bad loss that hurts our chances of winning #15.
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I saw the grimes foul on the 3, it was a flop. He didn’t touch him. Honest.
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@Crimsonorblue22 No kidding? I never did see a replay on the Grimes 3 pt foul. i wouldn’t doubt it. there were a few questionable fouls along the way.
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Hawk8086 said:
After further reflection…and a couple of glasses of wine…I just can’t believe that on two straight possessions, we ended up with Garrett trying to score off of the drive…I know he has been doing that well lately…but our first option should be Dedric, or Vick (when he is OPEN) or Dotson driving…since he is a good FT shooter…Garrett should drive when those options aren’t open… Tell me folks…Am I wrong about this??
Garrett driving to the lane IS a part of our offense, like it or not. I’m OK with it, if he can learn to finish stronger. I like his size and aggressiveness. You’re right. he’s not a great FT shooter. not option one.
I DO like Garrett handling the ball way better than Vick handling the ball (but not Garrett’s shooting of course). Neither is our best option. Vick couldn’t get a good handle on the last possession, and thus not a good shot.
But Huggy Bear’s boys did a great job of shutting down our main weapons today. sucks.
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Crimsonorblue22 said:
https://twitter.com/rockchalkblog/status/1086727223082532864?s=21
OK, i watched it. He didn’t hammer him. questionable for sure. I think the rules say you gotta give him room to come down. Probably what the zebras were looking at.
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Went to the side
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Read the comments under Cj Moore
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@Crimsonorblue22 That’s what I said during the game! The dude just fell on Grimes. Bogus.
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I didnt like the call be the offensive player caused the contact tho he is supposed to be able to land. The refs let WV get away with a fair share of contact but we killed ourselves more than anyone.
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jayhawkcsg said:
Crimsonorblue22 said:
https://twitter.com/rockchalkblog/status/1086727223082532864?s=21
OK, i watched it. He didn’t hammer him. questionable for sure.
Looks to me after 12 or more viewings like Grimes’ arm could have hit the shooter’s arm or shoulder. If not, the shooter’s body still seems to twist on the way down, maybe from a flop stemming from remarkable body control.
More importantly, it could have looked like contact to the refs, who did not get to view this play from that angle, in slow-motion, with many repeated playbacks, and enlarged. One ref on the baseline was blocked by Grimes, and the ref on the sideline was blocked by the shooter.
They could only see a sequence where the shot goes off, then the shooter’s sideways body movement just as Grimes is within inches, and then the shooter appears to fall from contact.
Wong calls are not automatically bad calls just because technology provides after the fact opportunities to second-guess everything. This was both a reasonable and an understandable call under the circumstances. Had the shooter been our guy, we would have screamed bloody murder if a foul had not been called.
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@mayjay Grimes took a bad angle and put himself in a bad position on that play. When you put yourself in a bad position on defense, bad things happen and Grimes was in a bad position on defense a lot today.
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@Texas-Hawk-10 He didn’t bother me as much as Vick returning to playing a position 14 feet away from the basket and allowing a 3 pt shot. Twice, he actually started moving closer to the shooter. Then the shooter hesitated, Vick stopped moving out, and a 3 pt swish followed. I can only surmise that Vick is utterly terrified of someone driving baseline right by him.
I have no source for advanced stats and metrics, but I would be willing to bet $10 that Vick’s assigned covers have cashed more 3 ptrs by far than any other KU defender’s assigned guys.
