2020 Recruiting
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@BeddieKU23 what’s frank get? I don’t really know the rules there. Can u play there forever? Do they sign a yr contract?
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This new program that the NBA has will likely give those that want it the chance to skip college and go to the G-League, get pro coaching and salary before being eligible for the NBA. Between that and overseas (particularly Australia), we could see a dozen or so top players skimmed off every year.
That means there probably won’t be very many true “difference makers” coming into the college game each year. You don’t get Andrew Wiggins, but you do get Wayne Selden. You probably won’t see much clustering of talent, either. Without truly elite guys to build around, the complimentary guys won’t have much reason to flock to the same school. I think that’s what we are seeing.
With the drop off in talent, I would also expect more guys to stay for two years, rather than jump after one. The guys that can jump after one probably never show up. The NBA game and college game are just so much different from a pace and structure perspective.
And if the NCAA doesn’t figure this out soon, they will be a relic of the past, too.
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@justanotherfan I believe the top 20 players this year went to 15 different schools. Lines up with your point.
I’ve been for some rule changes to make college closer to the NBA. Always gets some people upset for some reason.
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Frank had a 2 way contract. Havent easily found his salary for this yr. I see he has a 1.5 million cap hit for next season with the bucks.
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@justanotherfan said in 2020 Recruiting:
This new program that the NBA has will likely give those that want it the chance to skip college and go to the G-League, get pro coaching and salary before being eligible for the NBA. Between that and overseas (particularly Australia), we could see a dozen or so top players skimmed off every year.
That means there probably won’t be very many true “difference makers” coming into the college game each year. You don’t get Andrew Wiggins, but you do get Wayne Selden. You probably won’t see much clustering of talent, either. Without truly elite guys to build around, the complimentary guys won’t have much reason to flock to the same school. I think that’s what we are seeing.
With the drop off in talent, I would also expect more guys to stay for two years, rather than jump after one. The guys that can jump after one probably never show up. The NBA game and college game are just so much different from a pace and structure perspective.
And if the NCAA doesn’t figure this out soon, they will be a relic of the past, too.
I think also with the way things are going to play out. NOW your going to see how really has that coaching talent/being able to develop players instead of the kid just playing off sure talent - - I think we are going to be just fine.
Seems like with the type of players Coach has gotten these last two-three years, he quite possibly saw around the corner and got a jump started recruiting good quality developmental players. - -players that rom lots of room to develop. Time to sit back and watch Coach/coach’s work their magic. - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
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I get changing rules if your trying to keep top talent I guess, but the nba is watered down basketball. They have limited time to get a shot off. It’s really one pick and roll with maybe 2 passes, at most, with a quick shot. Quality of basketball is better in college. There are more play designs, more teamwork, and pace is much better.
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@jayhawks2010 said in 2020 Recruiting:
I get changing rules if your trying to keep top talent I guess, but the nba is watered down basketball. They have limited time to get a shot off. It’s really one pick and roll with maybe 2 passes, at most, with a quick shot. Quality of basketball is better in college. There are more play designs, more teamwork, and pace is much better.
I’m with you on all counts. The NBA doesn’t even try to act like it wants to play D anymore. No D, all iso and three - bad basketball. That’s why so many Europeans are being drafted, they have been coached and know how to play.
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Strongly disagree. The quality of basketball in the NBA is the best in the world. Plenty of defense to go around but it is a long season and some guys take plays/games off.
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@BShark Agree about the quality except one thing. The NBA is all about individual skill training. There is a lack of teaching and learning TEAM basketball. NBA teams do not practice a ton. As of today the majority of NBA players come to the NBA with some college which means they got at least one year of a coach teaching and preaching team basketball. Unless the g-league coaches teach more like a college team oriented way the team play will continue to get worse.
I actually think the only way team ball comes back in NBA is if you eliminate the corner 3. This will force more motion and screening to get open easy 2s. It would also bring back the want and need for a solid post guy. Not just a screen/3/rim runner like today.
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@BShark they take an inordinate amount of plays off. If the season is so long - which it is - as to force you to put out a bad product then it is time for it to be shortened (which we know won’t happen, cha-ching$). Anyway, agree to disagree, I think it’s a bad product. It has been creeping in for about 10 years now, maybe longer. I think that it will eventually cost the NBA in terms of popularity.
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Worth keeping tabs on if something weird happens. https://247sports.com/Player/Frank-Anselem-46055566/
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@FarmerJayhawk said in 2020 Recruiting:
Worth keeping tabs on if something weird happens. https://247sports.com/Player/Frank-Anselem-46055566/
Hopefully it doesn’t come to that. Pass city
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https://n.rivals.com/content/prospects/2020/jaquan-scott-213158
This kid claims to be down to KU and New Mexico State. Can’t see that we’ve offered. Walk-on maybe?
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@BShark said in 2020 Recruiting:
https://n.rivals.com/content/prospects/2020/jaquan-scott-213158
This kid claims to be down to KU and New Mexico State. Can’t see that we’ve offered. Walk-on maybe?
Would have to be. No offer or OV. Solid walk-on if he picks us though. He’d be the 4th walk-on which is a lot but ¯_(ツ)_/¯. If he wants to hang around and try to earn some minutes, why not.
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Here is the tweet fwiw: https://twitter.com/TheJaquanScott/status/1251676415847784448
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Seems like he was being more seriously recruited then it fell off. I couldn’t really find out why. Most recruiting articles on him are from 2018.
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@BShark said in 2020 Recruiting:
Here is the tweet fwiw: https://twitter.com/TheJaquanScott/status/1251676415847784448
The pick will likely be New Mexico state
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Kyree Walker finally going pro. LOL
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@BeddieKU23 said in 2020 Recruiting:
Kyree Walker finally going pro. LOL
long time for nothing, think it became widely known huh? - -I’m just I really don’t know what to think about this G league & such. - I think it for sure is going to hurt the quality of play in College
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The major difference between NBA and college is the skill level of the best players. Let’s imagine that every player has a skill rating, like on video games. The best players in college basketball in any given year are probably in the high 70s or low 80s. Maybe every now and then you will get a guy in the mid 80s, but that’s about it.
Within that structure, generally nobody is so much better than anyone else that it bends the defense in unnatural ways. Remember how Kevin Durant looked at Texas? He bent college defenses in ways that no one was prepared for. His team could be beaten, but no one could stop Durant. He was the rare guy in the mid to upper 80s.
Now think about the NBA. There are tons of guys with that type of skill level. Guys that were All Americans in college are role players in the NBA because other guys are just better. You make mistakes and people end up wide open for dunks and open threes. And in the NBA, they make you pay for that.
Would I like to see a shorter NBA season? Yes, but I think if that happens, it will end up crushing college hoops. If guys are only playing 5 times every 2 weeks, players will be fresher, which means they will play all out every night, like the playoffs, but all season long. And at that point, the quality of basketball is so much higher, there’s just no comparison.
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@justanotherfan the NBA is a bad product. What is killing it? The draft picks are no longer going to play college ball. They were once coached before they went to the NBA (hell, Jordan went 3 years! What about Magic and Bird?). Now, not so much… They have to be taught when they get there - bigtime hurting the product.
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If you don’t like the NBA, you aren’t going to start liking the NBA, particularly if there is no college affiliation to draw interest.
But the coaching angle is of no consequence because the way the NBA is coached is so much different than college that it’s irrelevant to go to college for that coaching.
The NBA is coached to create and exploit mismatches.
College is coached to run a system.
Systems don’t consistently work in the NBA because the players are too good and too well prepared to just run plays or sets, particularly in the playoffs. In the playoffs you will notice opposing teams sometimes actually calling out the other teams plays based simply on the set they start in. That’s the level of scouting, coaching and preparation the NBA has, so you can’t rely on that type of coaching.
Instead, at the NBA level, you have to rely on getting guys into favorable matchups. Getting a bigger guy matched up on a smaller one. Getting a quick guy covered by a slow one. That’s what is required, which is why you see so much emphasis on PnR to create the favorable matchup.
At the college level, they aren’t emphasizing matchups because teams aren’t as well scouted and the preparation isn’t to that level. Instead, they focus on executing specific sets because you may only have one guy capable of exploiting a matchup advantage.
Take this year’s KU team. The only guys that you consistently would have wanted to create mismatches for were Doke and Devon. For Doke, you wanted him one on one inside 5 feet. For Devon, you wanted him matched up with a slower guy in space. Other than that, though, you didn’t want to create mismatches because other guys were less likely to capitalize on those.
Let’s say that you had a guy like Doke that ended up with a smaller guy switched onto him, but he was 15 feet from the basket. Did Doke have the skill to punish that matchup immediately, before a team could switch? No. Could an NBA big man do that? Absolutely. They could catch that ball 15 feet from the basket and make one move to get into the paint, and either they get a dunk, or the defense scrambles to help and they end up with a wide open corner three, or a weakside cut for a dunk.
In the NBA getting a mismatch for tons of guys can result in a positive play. I could make a list of 50-75 players that can exploit one on one matchups regularly in the NBA. Probably couldn’t point to 30 guys with that skill at the college level.
So you have the shift - in college you learn a system because the skill level isn’t high enough to exploit a matchup. In the pros, you learn to create mismatches because the players are too good to try and just run even advanced sets against them consistently.
That difference means that college coaching doesn’t do much to prepare guys for the NBA. If it did, you would see guys that played four years at the top programs becoming stars, which is a rare thing at this point.
As you say, they are taught when they get there. That is because its a shift in thinking. You can’t just run this set or run that play because veterans will recognize that and snuff it out. You have to get into the set, and then know where to go in the free flow of the play. That has to be taught at the pro level because you can’t learn that until you see how the initial actions (and the secondary actions, often) are taken away at the pro level, versus those actions being there at the college level. Many four year players from college take several years to get footing in the NBA because they have to relearn concepts based on matchups. Its not the X’s and O’s at the pro level. It comes down to, you rotate away from this guy because he’s not a good shooter from 23 feet, but he can shoot from 19, so you rotate this far off him, versus, DO NOT LEAVE this guy, because its Steph Curry.
In college, its just the X’s and O’s. In the pros, it’s WHO the X’s and O’s represent.
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Appears our old friend Greg Brown may be going pro
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Always thought that was where he was going
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@FarmerJayhawk looks like Karim Mane did as well.
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@FarmerJayhawk said in 2020 Recruiting:
Appears our old friend Greg Brown may be going pro
oh really? - I just thought he was going to end up at Texas - -good let him go pro, another G leaguer
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@FarmerJayhawk said in 2020 Recruiting:
Appears our old friend Greg Brown may be going pro
I prefer that over him going to Texas! He also has 300,000$ reasons to go pro.
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@Woodrow said in 2020 Recruiting:
@FarmerJayhawk said in 2020 Recruiting:
Appears our old friend Greg Brown may be going pro
I prefer that over him going to Texas! He also has 300,000$ reasons to go pro.
And turned them all down to go to Texas. #StrongassOffer
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Big Texas bags.
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Texas 8-10 conference record with a OAD.
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@BeddieKU23 said in 2020 Recruiting:
Texas 8-10 conference record with a OAD.
He is local so it’s not that weird for him to end up there. 5 stars staying local does happen on a semi regular basis.
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@BeddieKU23 Shaka always gets a star and then…
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@Crimsonorblue22 said in 2020 Recruiting:
@BeddieKU23 Shaka always gets a star and then…
As if we’ve seen this movie play out before
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No Different then Myles Turner & Jarrett Allen before him
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@BeddieKU23 said in 2020 Recruiting:
No Different then Myles Turner & Jarrett Allen before him
Happens at Oklahoma as well occasionally when they produce a 5 star like Blake Griffin and Trae Young.
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How many 5 stars have come from Kansas high schools, and how many played for KU?
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Perry
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Bol Bol was a 5 star, although he did not graduate from Bishop Miege.
N’Faly Dante was 5 star at Sunrise Christian (prep school in Wichita) last year.
I think Wayne Simien was the last 5 star from Kansas that graduated from a Kansas school and attended KU. KU doesn’t consistently have 4 stars, let alone 5 stars instate.
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We did have that kid from Ottawa. Should’ve got him?
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So just Perry and Wayne?
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5 star prospects from Kansas don’t exactly grow on trees either
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@Crimsonorblue22 said in 2020 Recruiting:
We did have that kid from Ottawa. Should’ve got him?
Semi Ojeleye was a 4 star. I think Perry was, too. He may have been a 5 star on some services. As @BeddieKU23 said, 5 stars don’t grow on tress here in Kansas.
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Mark Mitchell (c/o 22) is the next one. Don’t think he ends up here though.
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@FarmerJayhawk said in 2020 Recruiting:
Mark Mitchell (c/o 22) is the next one. Don’t think he ends up here though.
Do you think it’s due to the underbelly of recruiting or KU’S lack of interest or lack of ability to compete with what’s going on
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@BeddieKU23 said in 2020 Recruiting:
@FarmerJayhawk said in 2020 Recruiting:
Mark Mitchell (c/o 22) is the next one. Don’t think he ends up here though.
Do you think it’s due to the underbelly of recruiting or KU’S lack of interest or lack of ability to compete with what’s going on
It’s early but I bet a program eventually places him at one of the prep powerhouses which would not be good for us.
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I feel like Kansas just doesn’t have a ton of 5 star kids so if one goes somewhere else, we feel like there is something wrong. We’ve gotten 5 starts from other people’s backyards all the time, it just happens. I think our recruiting has been impacted recently with the adidas thing.
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@Crimsonorblue22 said in 2020 Recruiting:
We did have that kid from Ottawa. Should’ve got him?
Semi Ojeleye had pretty strong KSU ties if I’m remembering correctly and played at MoKan when there was no relationship between them and KU because they are Nike. Christian Braun I believe was the first MoKan player KU has ever landed.
I don’t recall KU even making an offer for Ojeleye because of his Nike ties.
Another local (KC Metro) 5 star KU never attempted to recruit was Willy Cauley-Stein partly because of character issues at the time and he was also another MoKan player.
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Self’s glowing remarks about Ellis, a five-star recruit rated the No. 24 player nationally by Rivals.com, show just how much the Jayhawks needed Ellis to stay home in the Sunflower State as a Jayhawk. KU did not sign a five-star prospect in the 2011 class, and the best player that signed, shooting guard Ben McLemore of St. Louis, is academically ineligible to play this season.
Read more here: https://www.kansas.com/news/article1077549.html#storylink=cpy
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@jayhawks2010 said in 2020 Recruiting:
I feel like Kansas just doesn’t have a ton of 5 star kids so if one goes somewhere else, we feel like there is something wrong. We’ve gotten 5 starts from other people’s backyards all the time, it just happens. I think our recruiting has been impacted recently with the adidas thing.
There’s not and that’s also including the KC Metro area. I believe the last consensus 5 star KU landed that would be considered a local prospect was Brandon Rush.
Since 2002, (as back as Rivals goes), KU has landed the following local players. By local, I’m referring to the state of Kansas and the KC Metro area.
2002: Jeff Graves 3* (Lee’s Summit, MO)
2005: Brandon Rush 5* (KCMO)
2006: Brady Morningstar 3* (Lawrence, KS)
2007: Tyrel Reed 3* (Burlington, KS)
2008: Travis Releford 4* (Shawnee Mission, KS)
2012: Perry Ellis 5* (Wichita, KS)
2013: Connor Frankamp 4* (Wichita, KS)
2018: Ochai Agbaji 3* (KCMO)
2019: Christian Braun 3* (Burlington, KS)
If you look at the top players in Kansas most year, Sunrise Academy dominates that list so Kansas definitely doesn’t produce much local basketball talent.
