2020 Recruiting
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@BeddieKU23 said in 2020 Recruiting:
Kyree Walker finally going pro. LOL
long time for nothing, think it became widely known huh? - -I’m just I really don’t know what to think about this G league & such. - I think it for sure is going to hurt the quality of play in College
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The major difference between NBA and college is the skill level of the best players. Let’s imagine that every player has a skill rating, like on video games. The best players in college basketball in any given year are probably in the high 70s or low 80s. Maybe every now and then you will get a guy in the mid 80s, but that’s about it.
Within that structure, generally nobody is so much better than anyone else that it bends the defense in unnatural ways. Remember how Kevin Durant looked at Texas? He bent college defenses in ways that no one was prepared for. His team could be beaten, but no one could stop Durant. He was the rare guy in the mid to upper 80s.
Now think about the NBA. There are tons of guys with that type of skill level. Guys that were All Americans in college are role players in the NBA because other guys are just better. You make mistakes and people end up wide open for dunks and open threes. And in the NBA, they make you pay for that.
Would I like to see a shorter NBA season? Yes, but I think if that happens, it will end up crushing college hoops. If guys are only playing 5 times every 2 weeks, players will be fresher, which means they will play all out every night, like the playoffs, but all season long. And at that point, the quality of basketball is so much higher, there’s just no comparison.
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@justanotherfan the NBA is a bad product. What is killing it? The draft picks are no longer going to play college ball. They were once coached before they went to the NBA (hell, Jordan went 3 years! What about Magic and Bird?). Now, not so much… They have to be taught when they get there - bigtime hurting the product.
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If you don’t like the NBA, you aren’t going to start liking the NBA, particularly if there is no college affiliation to draw interest.
But the coaching angle is of no consequence because the way the NBA is coached is so much different than college that it’s irrelevant to go to college for that coaching.
The NBA is coached to create and exploit mismatches.
College is coached to run a system.
Systems don’t consistently work in the NBA because the players are too good and too well prepared to just run plays or sets, particularly in the playoffs. In the playoffs you will notice opposing teams sometimes actually calling out the other teams plays based simply on the set they start in. That’s the level of scouting, coaching and preparation the NBA has, so you can’t rely on that type of coaching.
Instead, at the NBA level, you have to rely on getting guys into favorable matchups. Getting a bigger guy matched up on a smaller one. Getting a quick guy covered by a slow one. That’s what is required, which is why you see so much emphasis on PnR to create the favorable matchup.
At the college level, they aren’t emphasizing matchups because teams aren’t as well scouted and the preparation isn’t to that level. Instead, they focus on executing specific sets because you may only have one guy capable of exploiting a matchup advantage.
Take this year’s KU team. The only guys that you consistently would have wanted to create mismatches for were Doke and Devon. For Doke, you wanted him one on one inside 5 feet. For Devon, you wanted him matched up with a slower guy in space. Other than that, though, you didn’t want to create mismatches because other guys were less likely to capitalize on those.
Let’s say that you had a guy like Doke that ended up with a smaller guy switched onto him, but he was 15 feet from the basket. Did Doke have the skill to punish that matchup immediately, before a team could switch? No. Could an NBA big man do that? Absolutely. They could catch that ball 15 feet from the basket and make one move to get into the paint, and either they get a dunk, or the defense scrambles to help and they end up with a wide open corner three, or a weakside cut for a dunk.
In the NBA getting a mismatch for tons of guys can result in a positive play. I could make a list of 50-75 players that can exploit one on one matchups regularly in the NBA. Probably couldn’t point to 30 guys with that skill at the college level.
So you have the shift - in college you learn a system because the skill level isn’t high enough to exploit a matchup. In the pros, you learn to create mismatches because the players are too good to try and just run even advanced sets against them consistently.
That difference means that college coaching doesn’t do much to prepare guys for the NBA. If it did, you would see guys that played four years at the top programs becoming stars, which is a rare thing at this point.
As you say, they are taught when they get there. That is because its a shift in thinking. You can’t just run this set or run that play because veterans will recognize that and snuff it out. You have to get into the set, and then know where to go in the free flow of the play. That has to be taught at the pro level because you can’t learn that until you see how the initial actions (and the secondary actions, often) are taken away at the pro level, versus those actions being there at the college level. Many four year players from college take several years to get footing in the NBA because they have to relearn concepts based on matchups. Its not the X’s and O’s at the pro level. It comes down to, you rotate away from this guy because he’s not a good shooter from 23 feet, but he can shoot from 19, so you rotate this far off him, versus, DO NOT LEAVE this guy, because its Steph Curry.
In college, its just the X’s and O’s. In the pros, it’s WHO the X’s and O’s represent.
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Appears our old friend Greg Brown may be going pro
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Always thought that was where he was going
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@FarmerJayhawk looks like Karim Mane did as well.
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@FarmerJayhawk said in 2020 Recruiting:
Appears our old friend Greg Brown may be going pro
oh really? - I just thought he was going to end up at Texas - -good let him go pro, another G leaguer
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@FarmerJayhawk said in 2020 Recruiting:
Appears our old friend Greg Brown may be going pro
I prefer that over him going to Texas! He also has 300,000$ reasons to go pro.
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@Woodrow said in 2020 Recruiting:
@FarmerJayhawk said in 2020 Recruiting:
Appears our old friend Greg Brown may be going pro
I prefer that over him going to Texas! He also has 300,000$ reasons to go pro.
And turned them all down to go to Texas. #StrongassOffer
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Big Texas bags.
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Texas 8-10 conference record with a OAD.
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@BeddieKU23 said in 2020 Recruiting:
Texas 8-10 conference record with a OAD.
He is local so it’s not that weird for him to end up there. 5 stars staying local does happen on a semi regular basis.
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@BeddieKU23 Shaka always gets a star and then…
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@Crimsonorblue22 said in 2020 Recruiting:
@BeddieKU23 Shaka always gets a star and then…
As if we’ve seen this movie play out before
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No Different then Myles Turner & Jarrett Allen before him
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@BeddieKU23 said in 2020 Recruiting:
No Different then Myles Turner & Jarrett Allen before him
Happens at Oklahoma as well occasionally when they produce a 5 star like Blake Griffin and Trae Young.
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How many 5 stars have come from Kansas high schools, and how many played for KU?
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Perry
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Bol Bol was a 5 star, although he did not graduate from Bishop Miege.
N’Faly Dante was 5 star at Sunrise Christian (prep school in Wichita) last year.
I think Wayne Simien was the last 5 star from Kansas that graduated from a Kansas school and attended KU. KU doesn’t consistently have 4 stars, let alone 5 stars instate.
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We did have that kid from Ottawa. Should’ve got him?
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So just Perry and Wayne?
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5 star prospects from Kansas don’t exactly grow on trees either
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@Crimsonorblue22 said in 2020 Recruiting:
We did have that kid from Ottawa. Should’ve got him?
Semi Ojeleye was a 4 star. I think Perry was, too. He may have been a 5 star on some services. As @BeddieKU23 said, 5 stars don’t grow on tress here in Kansas.
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Mark Mitchell (c/o 22) is the next one. Don’t think he ends up here though.
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@FarmerJayhawk said in 2020 Recruiting:
Mark Mitchell (c/o 22) is the next one. Don’t think he ends up here though.
Do you think it’s due to the underbelly of recruiting or KU’S lack of interest or lack of ability to compete with what’s going on
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@BeddieKU23 said in 2020 Recruiting:
@FarmerJayhawk said in 2020 Recruiting:
Mark Mitchell (c/o 22) is the next one. Don’t think he ends up here though.
Do you think it’s due to the underbelly of recruiting or KU’S lack of interest or lack of ability to compete with what’s going on
It’s early but I bet a program eventually places him at one of the prep powerhouses which would not be good for us.
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I feel like Kansas just doesn’t have a ton of 5 star kids so if one goes somewhere else, we feel like there is something wrong. We’ve gotten 5 starts from other people’s backyards all the time, it just happens. I think our recruiting has been impacted recently with the adidas thing.
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@Crimsonorblue22 said in 2020 Recruiting:
We did have that kid from Ottawa. Should’ve got him?
Semi Ojeleye had pretty strong KSU ties if I’m remembering correctly and played at MoKan when there was no relationship between them and KU because they are Nike. Christian Braun I believe was the first MoKan player KU has ever landed.
I don’t recall KU even making an offer for Ojeleye because of his Nike ties.
Another local (KC Metro) 5 star KU never attempted to recruit was Willy Cauley-Stein partly because of character issues at the time and he was also another MoKan player.
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Self’s glowing remarks about Ellis, a five-star recruit rated the No. 24 player nationally by Rivals.com, show just how much the Jayhawks needed Ellis to stay home in the Sunflower State as a Jayhawk. KU did not sign a five-star prospect in the 2011 class, and the best player that signed, shooting guard Ben McLemore of St. Louis, is academically ineligible to play this season.
Read more here: https://www.kansas.com/news/article1077549.html#storylink=cpy
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@jayhawks2010 said in 2020 Recruiting:
I feel like Kansas just doesn’t have a ton of 5 star kids so if one goes somewhere else, we feel like there is something wrong. We’ve gotten 5 starts from other people’s backyards all the time, it just happens. I think our recruiting has been impacted recently with the adidas thing.
There’s not and that’s also including the KC Metro area. I believe the last consensus 5 star KU landed that would be considered a local prospect was Brandon Rush.
Since 2002, (as back as Rivals goes), KU has landed the following local players. By local, I’m referring to the state of Kansas and the KC Metro area.
2002: Jeff Graves 3* (Lee’s Summit, MO)
2005: Brandon Rush 5* (KCMO)
2006: Brady Morningstar 3* (Lawrence, KS)
2007: Tyrel Reed 3* (Burlington, KS)
2008: Travis Releford 4* (Shawnee Mission, KS)
2012: Perry Ellis 5* (Wichita, KS)
2013: Connor Frankamp 4* (Wichita, KS)
2018: Ochai Agbaji 3* (KCMO)
2019: Christian Braun 3* (Burlington, KS)
If you look at the top players in Kansas most year, Sunrise Academy dominates that list so Kansas definitely doesn’t produce much local basketball talent.
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Tyon this year as a 4* as well. From KCK.
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Remember when people killed Self for not landing Daishen Nix? Well he’s going pro
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That is a big blow for Mick Cronin and UCLA. Sounds like his family needs money and he is taking it from the GL.
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Soo , from everything I have heard we are full roster now for 2020 right ? -so if we are full then why do I keep hearing about possibilities for 2020 roster ? Is Coach & staff looking to squeeze someone out ?
Here is another possible situation. Mike Foster a 6’10 PF out of Hillcrest Prep is thinking about re-classifying to the class of 2020. - -Foster is the # 7 ESPN 60 player in the class of 2021. They are making comparisons of him to DeAndre Ayton & Marvin Bagley. - -Foster himself says he feels like he has some Durant in him
Here is the thing he won’t be 17 until Feb - - -so whether if he re-classifies or not he has to stay for 2 years, as he is 2 yrs from being eligible for the NBA. - -He can’t go G league as that league is for only kids who are finished with High School. So he be in College for 2 yrs.
Foster has been doing a lot of Zoom Calls has had Zoom Calls with Baylor , & Georgia and is probably going to be in a Zoom call with KU & Coach Self soon they said also a Zoom call with Illinois also Florida State & Michigan has been in contact several times. The player director said he is as good as Bagley was when he was there - -can get out and finish in traffic , has a really sweet jump hook - -Averaged 26 ppg & 13 rpg & 3 blocks per game this past season. - So are we really pursuing this kid? - sounds pretty sweet , but again if this is the case - -someone is getting the squeeze. - - ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
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@jayballer73 said in 2020 Recruiting:
Soo , from everything I have heard we are full roster now for 2020 right ? -so if we are full then why do I keep hearing about possibilities for 2020 roster ? Is Coach & staff looking to squeeze someone out ?
Here is another possible situation. Mike Foster a 6’10 PF out of Hillcrest Prep is thinking about re-classifying to the class of 2020. - -Foster is the # 7 ESPN 60 player in the class of 2021. They are making comparisons of him to DeAndre Ayton & Marvin Bagley. - -Foster himself says he feels like he has some Durant in him
Here is the thing he won’t be 17 until Feb - - -so whether if he re-classifies or not he has to stay for 2 years, as he is 2 yrs from being eligible for the NBA. - -He can’t go G league as that league is for only kids who are finished with High School. So he be in College for 2 yrs.
Foster has been doing a lot of Zoom Calls has had Zoom Calls with Baylor , & Georgia and is probably going to be in a Zoom call with KU & Coach Self soon they said also a Zoom call with Illinois also Florida State & Michigan has been in contact several times. The player director said he is as good as Bagley was when he was there - -can get out and finish in traffic , has a really sweet jump hook - -Averaged 26 ppg & 13 rpg & 3 blocks per game this past season. - So are we really pursuing this kid? - sounds pretty sweet , but again if this is the case - -someone is getting the squeeze. - - ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
Foster isn’t a guy we can land at this point.
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He thinks hes kobe too
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@BeddieKU23 said in 2020 Recruiting:
He thinks hes kobe too
Lol at his coach comparing him to KD. Like stop
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@FarmerJayhawk said in 2020 Recruiting:
@BeddieKU23 said in 2020 Recruiting:
He thinks hes kobe too
Lol at his coach comparing him to KD. Like stop
lol --no it’s foster himself thinks he has some like Kd in him - -the Coach say Bagley & Ayton
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@FarmerJayhawk said in 2020 Recruiting:
@BeddieKU23 said in 2020 Recruiting:
He thinks hes kobe too
Lol at his coach comparing him to KD. Like stop
Wow. I’m not surprised he definitely tries to play offense like hes gods gift
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@jayballer73 said in 2020 Recruiting:
@FarmerJayhawk said in 2020 Recruiting:
@BeddieKU23 said in 2020 Recruiting:
He thinks hes kobe too
Lol at his coach comparing him to KD. Like stop
lol --no it’s foster himself thinks he has some like Kd in him - -the Coach say Bagley & Ayton
You right. My brain is mush. But I do love the fit if something materializes. Doesn’t really fill a need next year (although guys that talented are exactly common) but fills a huge need in 21-22. And would have a year in the system.
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@FarmerJayhawk said in 2020 Recruiting:
@jayballer73 said in 2020 Recruiting:
@FarmerJayhawk said in 2020 Recruiting:
@BeddieKU23 said in 2020 Recruiting:
He thinks hes kobe too
Lol at his coach comparing him to KD. Like stop
lol --no it’s foster himself thinks he has some like Kd in him - -the Coach say Bagley & Ayton
You right. My brain is mush. But I do love the fit if something materializes. Doesn’t really fill a need next year (although guys that talented are exactly common) but fills a huge need in 21-22. And would have a year in the system.
Agree, he didn’t really say just how serious he was thinking about the re-class never gave anything up one way or another. - - did have some nice stats thought 26/13/3. I would take that
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@Woodrow said in 2020 Recruiting:
https://twitter.com/jakeweingarten/status/1261373785095180289?s=21
Oh my.
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@Woodrow said in 2020 Recruiting:
https://twitter.com/jakeweingarten/status/1261373785095180289?s=21
Seems fishy to me. Jake sometimes gets out over his skis. Last I heard (a couple days ago) we had our 13. But alas, things can change quickly in cruitin
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@BShark said in 2020 Recruiting:
@Woodrow said in 2020 Recruiting:
https://twitter.com/jakeweingarten/status/1261373785095180289?s=21
Oh my.
Oh man - take, take, take if we can… That someone would have to leave to make room there is no doubt. Perhaps Coach already knows that a roster spot is going to be open?
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Frank Anselem to Syracuse.
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@BeddieKU23 Yeah after looking at his tape I was pretty okay with KU not being in contention.
