NCAA Corruption Investigation - Kansas Identified?
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@kjayhawks Clearing house decisions before new info comes are irrelevant. Ask Cal.
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When a player with Markell Fultz’ ability signs with Washington red flags should be raised immediately. I don’t know much about him, but I just think that’s evidence that something strange went down.
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Paying players would make no difference because players can still be tempted by more outside money. They should simply let players have nonexclusive contacts with agents and loans (to be reported to the NCAA) that can be disavowed if said agent doesn’t get the player X amount upon leaving school or within a year, say. And pass an actual law providing for criminal penalties for anyone seeking to induce a player or family member to sign a nonreported contract.
Open contracting like that will run the shady characters out quickly.
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@wissox or when a players parent is “running their recruitment” all it means to me is that they are taking payments and the highest bidder is where they end up.
That is what worries me about JJ the most. I just hope we don’t hear of a Kansas coach being involved. We can’t help that we are such a good program that people pay players to come here.
Of course, that is probably a bit of an ignorant thought on my end. It will all come down to the levels of deniability. I just hope we don’t hear about Self going to dinner with agents.
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@mayjay great ideas. That is exactly what they need to do. Find a way to create transparency and crush anyone who does things behind closed doors.
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mayjay said:
Paying players would make no difference because players can still be tempted by more outside money. They should simply let players have nonexclusive contacts with agents and loans (to be reported to the NCAA) that can be disavowed if said agent doesn’t get the player X amount upon leaving school or within a year, say. And pass an actual law providing for criminal penalties for anyone seeking to induce a player or family member to sign a nonreported contract.
Open contracting like that will run the shady characters out quickly.
Pretty great idea.
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@Kcmatt7 It perhaps could work even better if they guaranteed NCAA immunity to any player who reported shady inducements. Use the players as confid sources rather than punishing them if they self report going to dinner with a crook who paid for it.
I’d much rather have the chance to catch the illegal hunter than simply making sure no one gets his target.
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@BShark That Deadspin Article is exactly how I feel about this. FBI is trying to shake more things out.
I think the NCAA is more in damage control mode than they are attack mode lol.
Someone in that office is running around “WHO TIPPED THE FBI OFF?! Son of B. Sht Sht Sh*t. How are we going to spin this? How are we going to fix this?”
There is no way the NCAA wanted the FBI to do this. This puts way too much pressure on the NCAA to investigate 100 programs and dole out fair punishments to all of them without pissing off one school because they got a harsher penalty than another. It’ll be 10 years before they get to the bottom of all of this too more than likely.
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A couple of interesting items. Did anyone notice the headers on the spreadsheet are in what I would call Spanglish or a combination of English and Spanish and one of the headers indicates “Cambios de los Accountants” which in correct Spanish would be “Cambios de los Contadores” and “Presentado en Espana” or “Presented in Spain”? This typically happens when someone in a Spanish speaking country uses software written in a English. Could this be loans originated in Spain for players playing in Europe?
More importantly, if schools were not aware of these monies changing hands, can they be held legally responsible/liable? Seems like an extreme reach to me.
Now, the NCAA is a different beast and it can directly benefit from fines it can issue to big programs for whom a few million would not be much of a hardship. I see a big ammnesty coming to programs that were not blatantly involved. If this does not happen, I can see a s enario where the 5 big conferences leave the NCAA and start a new and more college friendly sports association.
Maybe this is what it takes to spur the NBA to ditch the OAD and adopt the baseball model.
Paying students that already receive free tuition, room and board and access to the best coaches, trainers and facilities and national exposure, for academic performance is silly. It would grossly discriminate against the rest of students that not only don’t get these benefits but have to pay for the privilege and patiently wait until graduation to collect the benefits of the education. I guess this makes me old school…
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@mayjay Something like that might work. They need to change the culture before they change anything else.
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@JayHawkFanToo The free market indicates they are worth more than that. We need to just eliminate OAD. Let the top players that want to get paid go get paid immediately.
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@JayHawkFanToo Loans more likely to have originated in places like Colombia or Mexico or even Russia. Huge caches of cash (couldn’t resist) tend to flow along the same paths as other untraceable commodities, and seem to implicate organized crime involvement.
Gad, I hope there isn’t any gambling investigation going on simultaneously!
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They should just cancel the entire season today. All records to date stand. KU 14 straight conference championships!
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We are talking about piddly amounts of money. Yes, the multimillion operations operate that way but we are talking about low 4 figure payments here.
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Except colleges are not or should not be places where athletes go to sell their wares to the highest bidder. Colleges are and should be places where individuals go to get an education first and foremost. Like I said, I am old fashioned this way.
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JayHawkFanToo said:
We are talking about piddly amounts of money. Yes, the multimillion operations operate that way but we are talking about low 4 figure payments here.
That you know of, in one sport. And in that particular sport, don’t you think organized crime, trying to take over gambling in the most heavily bet 3 week period of the year, as well as all these NBA players with all their games, would drool at the chance to get leverage over the players any way possible?
Aside: Can’t wait for the shareholder actions if the big corps get in stock-tumbling trouble.
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As I think on this more, that might be the NCAA’s out: investigate whether this affected the integrity of the games, and if not then announce new rules following a big, “Whew!”
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@JayHawkFanToo This effects the NBA exactly 0 amount. The only thing that would make them adopt the baseball model is on court performance, player development (or lack there of), and ROI.
Why would the NBA change the rule because of this?
Now, I’m not in favor of paying players, but only because then we would have to pay all NCAA athletes. And that makes no sense to me. And I think it would bankrupt athletics departments all over the country.
However, I am in favor of creating a private organization that licenses out the names of universities, “rents” their facilities and pays players. The players would also have the option of applying the funds they receive to a reduced tuition rate at that school instead of receiving their entire salary in cash.
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In that case why even pretend it is a college team? Let’s just call it what it would be, a school sponsored professional team.
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Maybe I’m misreading the big picture… but to me, the implication in all of this is that the NCAA has more responsibility than they can govern, rules that they are ineffective at enforcing consistently, and are therefore a feckless institution.
At first glance this is bad for CBB; but with a deeper look, I think our gaze has to be fixed on the NCAA.
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@BShark maybe that 2700 was tied to MSU
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Crimsonorblue22 said:
@BShark maybe that 2700 was tied to MSU
The loan advance was given to her allegedly about a week after he visited KU. Jackson visited KU officially in late January. He visited Michigan St the first week of March. Visited Arizona in December 2015.
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One thing is apparent, at least on these payments. They do not appear to have been done with the intention of swaying prospects to specific programs but to specific agents/agencies instead, after their college careers are over.
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@BeddieKU23 so, what do u think?
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Crimsonorblue22 said:
@BeddieKU23 so, what do u think?
I don’t think the advance has anything to do with the schools. I just wanted to provide the info about when Josh made his 3 official visits in case that came up.
I do think the agents were after his mom to secure him for the future.
Imagine how many other sports agency firms out there have similar spreadsheets that weren’t caught…
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@JayHawkFanToo Why are we pretending it isn’t that right now? You have even been one of the people saying that they think these charges are a stretch. If they don’t stick, what is going to keep players from taking the biggest paydays they possibly can from here on out?
Why do you want to continue to force athletes to go to school when that only brings down that academic standards that colleges are supposed to uphold?
Professional sports are using colleges. Colleges should turn the table and use the platform they have established, and are forced to have by profiting from it as much as possible.
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How many many of these cases wouldn’t have happened if the stupid OAD rule wasn’t in place. You’re asking kids that think they are just there for a pit stop to play by the same rules that don’t care as much about the school or what happens when they leave.
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@Buster-1926 Could be.
Maybe you are on to something though.
Conspiracy theory: FBI could be attempting to overthrow the NCAA and NCAA is too dumb to realize it is happening. Make the NCAA look like idiots and the bad guy. This forces schools to quit hiding their athletics department under the umbrella of a nonprofit and turns them into private organizations is potentially billions in tax revenue per year. Not to mention the double-taxation of athletes being paid in the light of day instead of behind closed doors.
Genius if this is what is actually going on.
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@Buster-1926 The incompetence at the NCAA makes the Feds look like geniuses…
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Kcmatt7 said:
They need to make it an environment that players and parents don’t feel like they need to go to agents to get extra cash. I’m not sure exactly how to do that, but there are brighter minds than me that could help to solve the problem.
You realize the NFL is in the same tax category as the NCAA. If they were going to go after anyone in this category it be the NFL. CRAZY $$$$ there. Of course the NCAA may be easier to nab.
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I know we are worried about the possible implications for KU in all this. So far we know of two former players linked to the report.
But imagine being Kentucky, Michigan St, Alabama, Duke with current players listed. What do they do… Do they sit them in fear or play them. I’m sure each school is furiously vetting the situation. We are talking the leading scorers for Michigan St, Kentucky & Alabama & one of Duke’s starters.
This will be interesting to see if all are held out because they are all now aware of what they might not have been aware of before…
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@BigBad NFL gave up tax-exempt status. And the feds are still getting player income tax and the individual teams income. They do not get taxes from individual schools or the scholarships students are paid in from colleges. Which is a much bigger pie than anything else out there right now. Think about ten thousand kids. Think 100 athletic programs making tens of millions in profit.
The FBI wouldn’t be going after the NCAA’s money. They would be going after individual schools athletic programs money. Money that could be touched if they became 100% private, non-sheltered entities.
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I am all for doing way with the OAD rule. I am in favor that if a college is going to spend a ton of money on a player, it should have some assurances he will stick around for at least 3 years.
Also, if colleges are the victims, it should be a civil and not a criminal matter.
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It is interesting the big picture here, isn’t it? It does lead back to the prosecutors’ motives.
Kurtis Townsend was the coach that recruited JJ. So if there is a coach involved, he’d likely be the guy. Big, big “IF”.
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If it becomes a non-profit/tax investigation, they could recover just a couple of years at most. I have no doubt Congress would immediately create all the exemptions necessary to protect the schools and ncaa in future years.
I think the FBI has no reason to try to upset the ncaa apple cart or get rid of it. They like it when big unwieldy organizations get all dysfunctional, and get to take advantage of the investigating private organizatons can do not hampered by DOJ rules.
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@JayHawkFanToo The NCAA has zero to do with the OAD rule.
You are proposing a solution that the NCAA is not in control of. The FBI is not in control of. Only the NBA. And the NBA, because of that rule, gets a free developmental league. So why would they give that up?
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@HighEliteMajor I said before, Townsend is the guy that recruited damn near any sketchy player the entire time under Self. And I think that is on purpose. Either he is the fall guy or he is trusted enough by Self to not do something stupid.
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@Kcmatt7 Isn’t he the one who tried to recruit the porn star?
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@mayjay lol wut?
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Wonder what Self will have to say of the matter or if he would even address it at this point.
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kjayhawks said:
Wonder what Self will have to say of the matter or if he would even address it at this point.
He did not comment on it today when asked
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Potential future headline: With all top teams suspended, 2018 National Championship is Rhode Island vs Loyola Chicago.
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There is public pressure building. It is possible that the NBA could be sued and forced to give up the OAD as it amounts to restriction of trade. If they claim players are not ready for the NBA after HS. there is ample precedent to counter that argument and the court would tell them…if you don’t think a players is ready for your team, then don’t select him.
I can see lots of big changes in college basketball as a result of this investigation and we might be seeing the last of the NCAA and college basketball as we know it.
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Forget the sums of money.
Where did Kansas officials participate in this? We are comparing apples and oranges compared to the first round of busts, where coaching assistants participated in the crimes.
I’ve only read a little today… but from what I read, Kansas isn’t guilty of anything and is as much a victim as anything else.
We’ve all been worried about Billy’s situation this year. From what I know so far, Billy’s situation shows just how responsible Kansas is when a problem comes up.
Perhaps the Billy situation will become a huge PLUS for us as this progresses.
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@drgnslayr And Cliff. And Diallo.
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@drgnslayr apples.
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Apparently Alexander did not get money or mom spent it very quickly and had to go get loan after Cliff was already playing at KU.
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Haven’t got that far. Not sure I will until tonight, when I free up more time.
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KU is the only team that was willing to keep players out with any smoke. How in the hell can KU even be mentioned after the players we have sat out each season. This is a joke. It’s a witch hunt and the so-called list is simply a way to show that all major programs were investigated. It does NOT surprise me at all that KU was in fact investigated, makes absolute perfect sense. So it appears that past players that graduated received money? Unless they can name recruiting violations and that KU knowingly allowed a player to play, this shouldn’t be a problem.
All the blue bloods were investigated, but only investigated, or audited. Let’s see if they find something in the mess KU’s compliance dept already investigated. Why do you all think Billy P never played? There was smoke and we never played him. They have jack on KU. Pat Forde is an idiot because he actually defeated his own theory by naming all the players that were mentioned. They were all investigated and the NCAA even cleared them, IF they played.
Also, if KU was HOT, they would’ve dropped the hammer already.
