Udoka Free Throw Solutions - Photo Added
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You make excellent points that go to the meat of what I asked. I have seen Doke shoot FTs during warmups and he uses a decent form which would appear to indicate the staff has worked with him, but once the game starts, he reverts to that god awful and flawed form of his.
There are several areas where Doke’s game can be improved and I am sure the staff has looked at the return on investment and determined it is much higher improving other parts of his game. At this point, I would be happy if he could improve his rebounding; I watched the TCU - WVU game and made me wish we could rebound as well as those teams do.
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@drgnslayr From what I can remember Self has said stuff like players work on their free throws on their own time and we don’t want to mess with mechanics mid season. In fact I can’t remember a single player drastically adjusting their form in their time at KU. (Sorry Garrett, you probably are what you are as a shooter)
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@benshawks08 T’Rob is about the only guy I can think of that really, really improved his form and shot.
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@Kcmatt7 I can remember several guys improving their shot (RussRob, Releford, heck even Miles his senior year) but most of them had solid mechanics to start. TRob is a good example, I just personally cannot remember much about his form when he got here.
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Another example of a player that changed his shooting form is TT, between his junior and senior year. He went down to Houston and worked with John Lucas on his shot form and other details of his game, like finishing at the rim.
TTs stats climbed dramatically in his senior year.
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@HighEliteMajor so irritated right now. You?
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@approxinfinity Now that a team has really employed the strategy, we will now take it more seriously.
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Was Lightfoot playing so poorly that leaving Doke in was our best option? I actually thought Mitch played well.
The real question I guess, can De Sousa develop enough by mid-March to be a guy Bill trusts at the end of the game? Because Bill clearly doesn’t trust Lightfoot.
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@Kcmatt7 Mitch should’ve been put in late no question, but he gives up offensive rebounds like it’s candy on Halloween.
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@Kcmatt7 - -Again I ask - -Why couldn’t self have put Cunliffe in? - -go ahead play 5 small - -ya probably give up two possibly on the other end maybe -but I know they sure the hell wouldn’t be hackin away - Put Cunliffe in - -put Mitch in - -This is on Self
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This from last year: http://www.kansascity.com/sports/college/big-12/university-of-kansas/article120294748.html
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It’s going to be like this the rest of the way. - -I mean there were some other reasons - -like Graham shooting like crap - -Vick not showing - -BUT this is Self
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I can’t believe what I just watched…
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@kjayhawks Well, to be fair, nobody but Doke rebounds well. Vick is the biggest disappointment I think I’ve ever seen in my years of watching KU.
Not the lockdown defender he was supposed to be. And definitely not as good of a rebounder as a guy that is 6’5 and as athletic as he is should be.
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Most profound statement of the decade Self " - -this loss is on me – -I screwed it up " - -OMG are you sure
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@Kcmatt7 Mitch was playing very well. Self did a great job getting the ball to Doke to start the half, sparking our run. But Mitch was a great alternative tonight and that should have been the move. And regarding Doke rebounding well, that’s relative. Doke is not the “go get it”, high energy, I would die for a rebound kind of guy.
@approxinfinity So with that link, you’re suggesting that Self and his staff have had well over a year to work with Udoka on his free throw shooting, knowing how bad he is? And that he shot under 40% from the line last season? And that Udoka actually injured his left wrist last season, so there is no reason why Udoka shouldn’t have been working on proper form from the line while he had all that free time healing? Interesting.
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@HighEliteMajor Yup!
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@HighEliteMajor If you look at past KU teams, they have a guy that rebounds (percentage-wsie) about as well as Doke. Realistically, slightly better. But, what this team lacks more than a good primary rebounder is a decent secondary rebounder. Self has had teams that gain a potential 15 point advantage per game from rebounding. This team gains less than 2 POTENTIAL points over their opponents from rebounding.
But that isn’t really the argument right now. At least Bill knows that he can’t let Poke-a-Doke just happen. Doke also will probably feel so bad about this loss that he will work on free throws for the rest of the season and potentially shoot well enough to end Poke-A-Doke.
Long-term, this loss could be a good thing. Only time will tell.
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@HighEliteMajor How can you, who lives God only knows where, understand these things and the coaches that are with him every single day can’t figure it out?
He looks like a goose with a broken wing - there is No way a shot would ever go in - unless it bounces off somebody’s head.
His free throw shooting is abominable. The fact that somebody hasn’t fixed it by now is worse. He has figured out how to dunk and hook - that’s all he needs to know there. Spend 8 hours a day shooting GD free throws.
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Watched the ESPN highlights of the game just now. not a single mention of Doke’s free throw woes. Let’s just pretend it never happened and there is no problem we need to fix.
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@approxinfinity That’s all they’re talking about now.
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@nuleafjhawk I just need an explanation. I need to hear coach Self say, “Look, it’s an Africa thing. When he left, he promised his townfolk that he would never change his free throw shooting to honor all of them, each time he plays.” Other than that, I’m lost.
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Mitch was having a real good game, only Newman and Svi had a better PER, only 2 players Mitch and Garret had a positive +/-. De Sousa, on the other hand had a miserable outing, 1 minute, 3 turnovers and 1 foul.
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Awesome! Btw, Kruger was reading your posts obviously. How prescient.
HighEliteMajor said:
@nuleafjhawk I just need an explanation. I need to hear coach Self say, “Look, it’s an Africa thing. When he left, he promised his townfolk that he would never change his free throw shooting to honor all of them, each time he plays.” Other than that, I’m lost.
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@approxinfinity they (ESPN) too caught up in Trae worship. They missed the story of the game in Self’s flub at the end from about 2-3 min left.
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@JayHawkFanToo DeSousa’s +/- has got to be horrid. I’d guess (without actually checking) -8 KSU +2 WVU, -4 Baylor, -2 OU. I hope I’m wrong, but that seems about right. He goes in the lead disappears, but it’s not all his fault. This team scores in spurts then sputters.
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@HighEliteMajor Any chance his wrist injury has affected his ability to hold his arm, wrist and hand vertically? I injured my wrist ligaments literally 42 years ago, and even though I got 99% recovered, that 1% limits a few motions. The free throw motion happens to be one, but oddly, holding my elbow out makes it easier. Not as far as Dok, to do mine without pain is more of a 45 degree angle.
If so, Self would not want to reveal it to preserve Dok’s pro prospects, or maybe Dok has never revealed it to the staff. And, perish the thought, other teams might foul on purpose knowing he could not make FTs.
Just speculating. It is just very weird to have pain from an injury that occurred after my freshman year. And his was a lot more recent.
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@mayjay thats entirely possible. If that were the case, I would like to think Self would be smart enough to not put Dok in those kinds of situations. He must have a hidden agenda for doing what he did because even people who dont know much or care at all about basketball knew what the proper move was.
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@HawkChamp Self gave his explanation…He believed you should leave your best players in. Also, he believed that Doke could hit half of those FTs…if so, it might have been a different game. He admitted that it turned out to be a bad decision. I don’t think there was a hidden Agenda.
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@HighEliteMajor hit this topic 100% correct. That Udoka photo of his retarded FT form, is just horrific. Literally, I’ve never seen such bad form on any level of bball, even down to jr high level. Its just moronic that a storied program’s alumni & fans, and its $52mil HOF coach have to waste time cussing & discussing Udoka FT form.
Every future KU opponent just took note of how & when Lon Kruger did what he did…
Scout on KU 2017-18: Defend the 3, no sagging…and Hack-a-Doke.
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Hawk8086 said:
@HawkChamp Self gave his explanation…He believed you should leave your best players in. Also, he believed that Doke could hit half of those FTs…if so, it might have been a different game. He admitted that it turned out to be a bad decision. I don’t think there was a hidden Agenda.
The thing that leaves me questioning a hidden agenda is it just wasnt one time, but OU kept fouling. This happened from the four minute mark onward, yet no adjustment from Self. I mean, the four times Dok went to the line were a turnover because we didn’t even get a shot off. Not acceptable.
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@mayjay @HawkChamp His wrist injury was to his left wrist. A point I made last night was that given all of his time off last season with the injury, that functional right wrist would have been quite able to practice and perfect free throw shooting technique.
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I’m not sure you can fix Doka’s shooting mechanics. Remember this kid didn’t start playing organized basketball until later in his life. He so far behind the learning curve on how to actually shoot, I’m just not sure there is enough time to catch up?
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DoubleDD said:
I’m not sure you can fix Doka’s shooting mechanics. Remember this kid didn’t start playing organized basketball until later in his life. He so far behind the learning curve on how to actually shoot, I’m just not sure there is enough time to catch up?
there may not be enough time, but of course it can be fixed. I don’t believe that he is physically incapable of moving his right elbow inward toward his rib cage, nor do I believe he is incapable of releasing the ball on his right side instead of his left. Until definitively proven otherwise, I believe it can be fixed.
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Two of the great basketball bigs of all time, Wilt and Shaq, could not hit FTs and they booth have career averages of just over 0.500 with Wilt having one with 0.380; Bill Russell, another great big has a career average of 0.561. I personal;y think they developed mental blocks they were not able to overcome; obviously they excelled in other parts of the game.
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Well I’m holding out for hope. Yet you have to admit Coach is starting with scratch. I’m afraid Doka’s shooting woes have officially become a serious problem.
I was so hoping he could sneak by and even get lucky enough to shoot say 50%. This is no longer the issue. Doka has now become useless in close games coming down to the wire. Sadly he has become a liability late in games. They’re already calling it the Pok a Dok.
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@HighEliteMajor Well, shoot. Another great theory shot to hell! Thx for the correction (in Embarrassment font).
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I have read that big men have trouble finding the optimal release point and shot arc for FTs because of their longer standing reach and overall long limbs. The ideal shooting motion is a more compact movement, but big guys tend to have lots of moving parts in their shooting stroke.
That can be corrected obviously - Dirk Nowitzki immediately comes to mind as a great FT shooter, but I think it takes more time for a big man to develop a good shooting stroke, particularly a big man that developed as a big guy playing in the post. Guys like Nowitzki developed as perimeter oriented players. Anthony Davis was a guard for most of his life. But some of the bigger guys tend to never have developed much in the way of shooting touch outside the paint anyway.
As a result, their release is inconsistent and their shooting suffers.
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The Big Dub was a very good FT shooter at 0.784, Withey 0.726, TRob went from 0.395 as a freshman, 0.510 as a sophomore to 0.682 in his Junior year.
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@HawkChamp I agree that Self’s strategy, or lack thereof was not acceptable.
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Y’all see this? http://www2.kusports.com/news/2018/jan/24/police-called-suspicious-person-offering-free-thro/
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Kareem was 72% I believe for his career so it can be done.
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kjayhawks said:
Y’all see this? http://www2.kusports.com/news/2018/jan/24/police-called-suspicious-person-offering-free-thro/
I hope we don’t know this person.
️
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@dylans All I wanted to do was deliver @HighEliteMajor step-by-step guide to better free throw shooting. Geesh, I thought it would come in handy. afterall, @nuleafjhawk dared me.
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I knew at least one of us would take credit for it!!
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dylans said:
kjayhawks said:
Y’all see this? http://www2.kusports.com/news/2018/jan/24/police-called-suspicious-person-offering-free-thro/
I hope we don’t know this person.
️Haha well it wasn’t me or you I’m assuming lol
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@Blown I don’t think I’d give Doke too much lip if he didn’t want me around. Lol
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@kjayhawks @dylans @Blown — I have an alibi. Really I do.
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@HighEliteMajor Admittedly you were the first person I thought of. Although it could’ve been half the people in the state (the half with good taste).
