Whiff City
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If we can’t land a legacy, who we offered and were all over for an entire YEAR before UK, who TF can we land?
Grimes is coming here. We have visited him nearly 10 times. We were the 3rd school to offer him. We have put the time and effort in. We have done all of the right things. If we lost him to UK, I just don’t see how there couldn’t be something dirty going on. This would be the last straw for me. I couldn’t NOT believe that Nike, Adidas and agents 100% dictate where most top 25 kids go.
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You keep misquoting me even when I specifically said in two separate posts…I am not saying KU is not in play.
KU is very much in play but based on what I have read to date it is not the leader, OSU is by virtue of the relationship he has with the assistant coach there that was his AAU coach.
For the third time, I am not saying KU is not in play…
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How are they the leader if there is no official visit scheduled to OSU at this point
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2018-19 is shaping up to be a year where a more veteran team could emerge for the national title simply because the depth isn’t there for the incoming class.
Unless one team is able to sign four top 15 players, it’s hard to see a team dominated by freshmen rising above the fray.
Teams that have top returning players should rocket to the top over the course of the season. Of course, the risk is that this parity just means lots of teams have a shot at the title rather than just a handful because the talent levels will be so close come tournament time.
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NC ST landed a top 100 center yesterday. Important because big dave visited there. Have to think that’s another positive sign
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Looks like a PF but I doubt it hurts KU. I think KU is well positioned here.
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And yeah if Grimes ends up at UK I just…fwrlt241351 3l41rw4…
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@BShark ok after your mini-stroke?
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KU is clearly the leader on Grimes, Dotson and Zion and there is plenty of information to back that up. The information on Big Dave is not readily available only that he has made 9 unofficial visit, one official and one scheduled official to KU; seems logical that he would make all the available official visits.
The most recent predictions, including Jerry Meyer who many in the forum respect indicate OSU. KU would seem to be in a good place but no one has updated his prediction. McCormack has said the right things about the places he visited but not really given any indication on his final destination. McCormack might very well end up at KUand if KU gets the other 3 prospects, it could be one of the better classes ever.
As I have said before, the only sure prospect is the one that has signed a LOI, until then, every program is in play. Remember when Ayton was just about 100% KU? So much for that…
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@JayHawkFanToo and for the THIRD time – -he WILL NOT end up at Okla St - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
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@BeddieKU23 He doesn’t know. - -All he knows or so he thinks anyways is that KU is not the leader good for him - I’m tired of trying to lead a horse to water. - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
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OK. So only your opinion counts? Got it.
Remember that absent facts all we can offer is opinions and they are just that…opinions, and as such they are not right or wrong just different…unless they are your apparently in which case they are right and others wrong.
I never said or implied you were wrong, I simply asked for the rationale for your opinion; I would appreciate if you would extend others the same courtesy.
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@JayHawkFanToo right. - -and you never answered my question when I turned it back to you. - - - Still waiting - -thanks. - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
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Must be nice to have a decent football program. Dotson and his dad sure looked like they were into that game… Would suck if Florida football just helped them land Dotson.
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You need to take the blinders off and actually read what I wrote, the answer is there…it is just not what you want it to be so you just ignore it. Nothing else I can add.
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@JayHawkFanToo ok, thanks for the insight. - -so enlightening, I hope I can one day when I grow up be able to comprehend like you thank you. - have a great day. - - ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
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Ok so @jayballer54 I’m curious why you are so certain about where Dave isn’t going? You’ve stated several times that’s what you believe, but haven’t supported your argument. Just assume I haven’t read any of the recruiting stuff from the crystal ball (as I think it’s bunk) don’t pay for 247 sports (why would I?) and only get info from free internet sources that hopefully don’t contain a million viruses (ESPN and KUSports mainly). So what information that is making you so confident that McCormack is going to one school or another? I haven’t seen anything that leads me to believe one way or another just curious what your thoughts are.
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OK, guys, let me get this straight. Both of you have an opinion of who is the leader for some recruit, neither of you has any definitive actual information on the subject, both of you have cited some information that you claim supports your opinion, each of you challenges the sources of each other’s opinion, both of you claim you (a) supported your own and (b) asked for why the other one has an opinion that seems very strong, and you both seem to agree that CBs and recruit comments are not definitive predictors of a player’s ultimate destination.
Now you decide to start snarling at each other, blah blah blah–typifying way too much internet interaction.
Can you both please try to repeat the words, “We are each entitled to our own opinion” without adding nasty comments?
Here is my own, as if it matters: the relationship with the OSU coach gives a good reason why OSU is in the mix, but we know from many many recruitments that offers from blue bloods (esp Duke and UK) can often win over personal ties. You each have valid points. But you both keep asking for proof of opinions–it doesn’t work that way!
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@dylans I can ask the same question as to why people feel so confident That we are not a major player for him. - -Look this could go on banter back and forth - -not worth it, at least not to me, I’ve have more serious thing to concentrate on such as my upcoming Stress tests on my heart and multiple other tests concerning my heart - that’s some for me to really concentrate. Look we can opposite opinions, it’s some just only want to hear their favorable side. CB’S are a bunch of crap - -been proven multiple times tell me that isn’t so. If you put your belief in CB’S then you must still believe in Santa Claus too lmao.
Don’t need proof, it’s me - it’s my gut feeling and I will say again and feel very very confident - -David McCormack WILL NOT commit to Oklahoma St, again David McCormack WILL NOT commit to Oklahoma State. period. - like I said it is fruitless to keep going back and forth back and forth I have an opinion just as others have theire.
You may think mine is crazy unfounded ridicilious what ever that’s fine, that’s people’s right to think that. I have no problem with that just as I have my right. - Is this not an open forum? - -Are we always suppose to agree 100 with one another? if sooooo then I don’t honestly know what to tell ya, Hell 'm suppose to agree with the ol lady 100% of the time - -doesn’t happen - -still married lmao. Tis is not the first time people have agreed won’t be the last. I’m just not going to pursue this particular question any further , before it gets out of hand. I enjoy this room anyways bottom line we all want whats best for KYU I think we can all agree on that - -My thoughts McCormack is either here at KU - -or Duke but no way in hell will he land at Oklahoma St -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
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@mayjay Thanks - - ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
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@jayballer54 You can save money by just having the doctor attach the EKG leads to your chest after a lengthy session on the Board. No other stress inducers necessary!
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@mayjay Lmao, hey good idea lol - -only two problems. what about the electrocardiogram & Heart Cath lol? - - - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
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@jayballer54 I wasn’t disagreeing with ya. I just was wondering what you were basing your opinion on. I have no info one way or the other. There has been zero back and forth between us, I have read this whole thread and was wondering where you were coming from. Here I was hopeful that you’d have a link to read or some positive distraction. That’s all.
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@dylans Nope - no link just my gut - -sorry - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
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David McCormack schedules official visit to OK St. for Oct. 14th per reports.
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Interesting notes on the Dotson front. According to Matt He didn’t see the ending of the Florida game (which is the only positive it seems on that front).
Florida insider is awful confident he announces for them in the next week. He says he has ties to the Dotson recruitment. Surprisingly no CB action yet to Florida but I get the sense the writing is on the wall.
Would be interesting to know why there was even information leaking saying he was done to KU in July/August if in fact that ended up being false. Information like that is not helpful to anyone and just creates the sense that KU has missed on yet another target they went for. Maybe he was Florida’s all along with the PT available and the relationship they formed with the staff and the KU talk was junk. In the end a majority of these kids just don’t want to live in Kansas no matter how good the facilities, the coach, the team, the history etc…
Further I’m not sure what Self has to do to land elite point guards at this point if Dotson goes to Florida. Shouldn’t Frank Mason’s success have changed things? It seems as though KU has to literally have zero PG’s on the roster for that to happen. Disappointing if this happens.
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KU has not had a single first round PG under Self. They have had high recruits - Collins, Chalmers, Selby. They have had all conference and all Americans - Mason, Miles, Taylor. But they have not had a first rounder. That’s a boatload of highly talented guys that have not, for one reason or another, translated to NBA stardom.
Every single guy I listed, with the exception of Selby, was a very good collegiate player at a minimum. Several of those guys were legitimately great collegiate players. But Self has yet to solve the jump from college to the NBA at the PG position. That’s why the success of Newman this year is so important. Self has to show other PGs that he can take a highly talented player and make them a lottery pick from the PG position.
We knock Calipari on this board all the time, but his PGs almost never miss when they come in that highly touted. Wall and Bledsoe are legit stars. Knight is a starter. Fox was a lottery pick. Tyler Ulis is a solid NBA backup. That track record is pretty impressive. Self can’t match that, and he’s had McDs AA’s at his disposal.
Newman is a referendum on Self’s ability to translate talent to draft pick at the PG position. At this point, that’s the only thing that can really change the current perception of Self (in my eyes) on the recruiting front at PG.
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@justanotherfan Newman is a shooting guard, right?
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Newman is an NBA PG. He doesn’t really have a future in the NBA as a 2 because of his size, so I am considering him a PG for this exercise. It actually benefits KU if others consider him a PG as well, because recruits will see a scoring PG at KU, which could lead to some recruiting currency later on. I hope Self has Newman playing on-ball at least 40% of the time, letting him run the show sometimes even with Devonte on the floor.
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I agree that Self has a reputation with PG’s that is hard to overcome when he’s recruiting the very best in the land. Dotson should be a player Self can get though. There has been a significant amount of time and effort placed on securing his commitment.
What is Mike White offering that Self can’t? Mike White certainly has even less of a reputation for putting his players into the NBA.
I would say Devon and his family putting his NBA future in the hands of Mike White is a far riskier move then Bill Self. And while Dotson has seen his stock rise considerably from where it was in the spring I wouldn’t consider him a 1st round type at the moment unless he magically becomes a better athlete and perimeter shooter. I would also question what Florida has put into the league that stands out at the point guard position?
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@BeddieKU23 I’m not going to say one way or another with Devon. - -I’m just going to have that old scenario wait and see approach I guess. - -I mean as is so typical after a visit these guys are going to put out nothing but positive things for their fans to read. - -99-100 they aren’t going to put out anything saying that a recruit says sorry but nope I’m am not interested in your school - -your school sucks or negative material like that. - I’m not saying obviously that’s what Devon said - -I’m not saying he didn’t say a lot of positive things about Florida - -chances are he did -what recruit doesn’t?
Almost any recruit even the recruits after they visit KU have nothing but good things to say about the school, it’s just the way it seems to go after a visit. - -So chances are he did tell this Insider positive things for Florida. -Let’s sit back for a couple of days and just watch - -see, I agree if it does turn out this way - - then I am stumped - -I just don’t get it, but we shall see. But for this guy sounds like he thumping his chest pretty hard about something happening within the week? - - umm I don’t know about all that. - -Something tells me we STILL aren’t in as bad as shape as some may think - might be wrong but. - - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
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Let’s think of this like investments. In one case, you have an investor with a long track record, but it’s a record of mediocre returns with your type of product (i.e. PGs), even over a long term (i.e., lots of talent, just a few second round picks, or undrafted free agents after good college careers).
On the other hand, you have an investor with a much shorter high level track record who has never really done much at this level. On the one hand, you’re looking at the unknown. On the other hand, it’s the unknown against a record of underperformance in this particular area. In this situation, Mike White’s lack of history is actually a benefit in a direct competition against Self because he doesn’t have his past shortcomings weighing him down (something White has no doubt pointed out to Dotson and his family).
I’m not saying White is a better coach, obviously. Just that if you’re Dotson and you’re putting your draft future into one program or another, the program that hasn’t produced a first rounder with multiple McDs AAs and collegiate stars may not be your first choice because you can’t even argue that Self hasn’t had talent at the position, or that Self hasn’t had guys play well at the point. They just haven’t translated to the NBA.
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BeddieKU23 said:
I agree that Self has a reputation with PG’s that is hard to overcome when he’s recruiting the very best in the land. Dotson should be a player Self can get though. There has been a significant amount of time and effort placed on securing his commitment.
What is Mike White offering that Self can’t? Mike White certainly has even less of a reputation for putting his players into the NBA.
I would say Devon and his family putting his NBA future in the hands of Mike White is a far riskier move then Bill Self. And while Dotson has seen his stock rise considerably from where it was in the spring I wouldn’t consider him a 1st round type at the moment unless he magically becomes a better athlete and perimeter shooter. I would also question what Florida has put into the league that stands out at the point guard position?
I honestly don’t think it matters much where Dotson goes. Florida has been on him a long time too. All that said it would be a tough miss to swallow, especially since Self/the staff made the choice to go hard after Grimes and Dotson when they could have just as easily pressed on Carey and/or Ayo who I believe KU had a great shot at before slow playing due to Grimes/Dotson.
Honestly if Dotson goes to UF then Grimes becomes a near must land recruit. And I’m hesitant to say that any recruit is must land for KU. KU would obviously move on if Grimes picked UK (he very well might, as UK wants the first to commit of Grimes and Keldon Johnson) but it would be pretty awful when you consider… His mom went to KU, he is an Adidas kid, KU was his third D1 offer/has been on him since forever and he is tremendously talented.
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Good debate. A few more points.
Has Self ever landed a PG that was a sure-thing 1st round pick without his coaching?
Collins- lack of height and weight concerns always limited his stock. That’s why he stayed all 4 years.
Chalmers- wasn’t the primary PG at KU, lacked elite athleticism, left at the right time. Did win NBA titles despite not going in the 1st round.
Selby- injury, suspension, definitely can be argued KU hurt his stock. Definitely didn’t stick around long enough to fix what went wrong. Unfair for Self to be judged based off him. But I understand he will be regardless.
I can’t say he’s ever been given the keys to an elite PG talent to prove otherwise. But he took a no-named 3-4 star PG Frank Mason and molded him into a NPOY.
You mentioned Calipari with his success with the PG’s and frankly most of them would have been drafted highly regardless of landing at Kentucky with Cal. Cal certainly didn’t hurt their stock, if anything he enhanced it. He’s 2nd to none in that regard. When he gets guys with a ton of hype they rarely disappoint.
What bothers me is Self didn’t hurt Andrew Wiggins stock, he still went 1st. Embiid blew up, went top 5 despite injury. Jackson just went top 5 in a loaded draft. He certainly gives the elite every chance to succeed at KU and keep their draft stock high. So I’m stunned that top ranked PG’s choose to go elsewhere despite the opportunity for PT and to be coached by one of the game’s best.
Does Dotson have a 1st round NBA future? I don’t think he does judging him right now. I don’t see the elite size, athleticism, shooting ability that PG’s often have to possess to be drafted in the 1st round. He’s in the same mold as Collins, Chalmers & Selby, even Russel Robinson. I think he’s going to be excellent at the College level and with some development in College could work his way into the 1st round given the right timing.
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Grimes is pretty clearly the superior player in my eyes. He’s more explosive, stronger and a tick better shooter. He’s also the better athlete. Dotson’s vision may be better, but even that I wouldn’t say for certain.
I’m actually a bit surprised that Grimes isn’t a top ten guy in such a thin class. I’m surprised Quickley is ahead of Grimes. I understand why people are high on Garland, but I would have Garland ahead of Jones and Grimes right behind Garland. Grimes just looks like he will be more able to transition to college with his strength and athleticism. Jones is basically a carbon copy of his brother (not that this is a bad thing), but I don’t see how that puts him ahead of those other guys. Perhaps its that Grimes is classified as a 2, but I see him more as a combo guy (particularly because these HS guys all come out handling the ball anyway).
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Agree, its going to be very hard to understand missing on him. Maybe I was little consumed with how confident Slater was saying he was going to KU. I also felt confident in Adidas putting him at KU especially with the way the Zion & Dotson teaming up in Vegas went. But it seems the Dotson’s haven’t been swayed by outside influence and they are making a unbiased decision. I always knew that Florida had developed a great relationship with him but I didn’t think this would potentially end up this way given all that KU has done to land him. Crazy, makes you want to give up on the recruiting all together
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Grimes isn’t top 10 because he didn’t play on the Nike circuit. Nike just has a ton of influence on everything.
He was sick during the 1st eval period and it wasn’t until the later sessions that he proved to everyone that he was still one of the best players in his class. I agree with everything else though, he has the size and athletic ability that is going to translate to College and the NBA…
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Grimes will be a great one, hopefully at KU. Like if KU can’t get Grimes (for all the reasons that have already been mentioned) it makes you wonder who CAN they get.
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BShark said:
Grimes will be a great one, hopefully at KU. Like if KU can’t get Grimes (for all the reasons that have already been mentioned) it makes you wonder who CAN they get.
Exactly, losing on Grimes would put a big dent in where KU falls in the pecking order of recruiting at this point
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jayballer54 said:
@BeddieKU23 I’m not going to say one way or another with Devon. - -I’m just going to have that old scenario wait and see approach I guess. - -I mean as is so typical after a visit these guys are going to put out nothing but positive things for their fans to read. - -99-100 they aren’t going to put out anything saying that a recruit says sorry but nope I’m am not interested in your school - -your school sucks or negative material like that. - I’m not saying obviously that’s what Devon said - -I’m not saying he didn’t say a lot of positive things about Florida - -chances are he did -what recruit doesn’t?
Almost any recruit even the recruits after they visit KU have nothing but good things to say about the school, it’s just the way it seems to go after a visit. - -So chances are he did tell this Insider positive things for Florida. -Let’s sit back for a couple of days and just watch - -see, I agree if it does turn out this way - - then I am stumped - -I just don’t get it, but we shall see. But for this guy sounds like he thumping his chest pretty hard about something happening within the week? - - umm I don’t know about all that. - -Something tells me we STILL aren’t in as bad as shape as some may think - might be wrong but. - - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
Actually this person from the Florida site has been talking about Dotson to Florida for a while now (july) and has said its been all but done since August as well. He says he has intel from the staff/travel ball that are close with the Dotson Family. They all seem to take his intel as legitimate there. Everything I see is he’s either a coach on the AAU scene or connected in some respect to it and has access to these recruits for firsthand information.
Either the media and recruiting sites overstated Dotson’s intentions or Florida was always the favorite and KU being the bigger school overshadowed that fact and we’ve all gotten caught in the fact that Dotson was not KU’s to lose but Florida’s.
We probably got a little too ahead of ourselves with the Zion and Devon pairing in Vegas and maybe at the time all the momentum was KU could get him to commit but that settled and KU had Dotson on campus before Florida for whatever reason. We can visit him all we want but it looks at least how I’m seeing things is Florida has won this battle and this past weekends visit likely sealed it up. If he announces soon we’ll know its Florida.
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@justanotherfan Ok, that makes sense. I simply have no idea on Newman’s level of ballhandling. We were spoiled with Mason. Graham isn’t in that league with the ball.
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Remember that Mario Chalmers did not play PG at KU, RussRob did, but he had to move to PG on the NBA. He did pretty well at his new position but now he seems to be unable to hook up with a team because of his previous injury. I am sure he is pretty much set for life even if he does not play another game in the NBA although you would think there is a team out there that could use him.
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@JayHawkFanToo he signed w/Memphis
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You are correct, I forgot about it. He will be playing with McLemore.
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@JayHawkFanToo and selden
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I’m thinking that we would be seeing some movement in the CB from or about Devon if it indeed was he was going to commit or there was a huge swing in Florida favor wouldn’t w by now - -something?
Or hear something from Devon about his trip to Florida - -I’m not talking about from some Florida insider - -I’m talking about Devon talking about his trip how I went, what he though possible decision date - not some insider giving his input - -Just silence right now. - -ROCK CHALK ALL DY LONG BABY
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Well, just answered my own question from a post of just a few minutes ago.
Article from Zags Blog says Devon is now weighing his options. His dad Dana said the visit with Florida was a good visit. Got the chance to hang around Florida players, he attended a class , two practices , met the academics , met the strength and conditioning and attended the foot ball game Saturday which I read he didn’t stay for the length of the game.
Met with the Coaching staff several times, which they told him he would have the ball in his hands from day one - -as they are losing their starting PG ( Ja"Quan Newton. )- - said they run an up tempo and can see Devon fitting right in.
Also said Devon visited KU last month and KU could be losing a lot including our Pg Graham. - -Said Devon is going to take the weekend off from visits and consider his options & next actions.
It did mention that UCLA , Clemson , & Maryland had shown interest but did not mention anything else about them. - -Sounds like he has visited who he wants and it WILL BE either KU or Florida to me. - -ROCK CHALK ALL DAY LONG BABY
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@jayballer54 Florida coaches meeting with DD again today at school as well as in-home. Sounds like an all out blitz.
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They are not visiting anywhere this weekend as its his mother’s birthday I believe.
If Maryland gets an official visit then we know he hasn’t made his mind up. If he doesn’t he’ll be announcing for Florida.
